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Thread: Circassians

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    Question Circassians



    Are there any today either genetic data on the Circassians?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
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    Country: France



    They are mostly G2a*

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    They are mostly G2a*
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    They are mostly G2a*
    That's not true. Caucasians are mostly F and G2, but Circasians (aka Adygeys, Abkazians, Ossetians, Nogays) belong to a much greater variety of haplogroups, including a lot of R1a and R1b, some J2, I2 and Central or East Asians haplogroups (C, K, N, O, P, Q).

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
    Schwaben
    Country: France



    I said mostly

    North Ossetians G2a* : 74%

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    I said mostly
    North Ossetians G2a* : 74%
    Not possible, some studies found over 40% of R1b in North Ossetians.

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    This study has haplogroup frequencies for Russians (Kuban Cossaks) in the North Caucasus (n. 14) : Balanovsky et al. (2008) The three dominant haplogroups are R1a (47%), I2a2 (16.5%) and R1b (9%). There is only 1% of G2.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
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    Country: France



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...try_by_Country


    A 2009 presentation by Khadizhat Dibirova indicated the following percentages:

    people pop. (2002) total N G % N=G
    Shapsug 3231 (2002) 106 : 81.1% 86
    Ossetian ~600,000 166 : 67.8% 113
    Terek Cossacks 425,526 (2002) 86 : 53.5% 46
    Circassian 365,804 (2002) 48 : 31.3% 15 Lezgin ~600,000 90 5.6% 5
    Avars ~5000 108 12% 13
    Chechen (Chechnya & Ingushetia) 178 5.6% 10
    Chechen (Dagestan) ~5000 72 4.2% 3
    Dargin 425,526 (2002) 86 2.3% 2
    Kaltagian 30 - -
    Kubachin 56 - -

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...try_by_Country
    A 2009 presentation by Khadizhat Dibirova indicated the following percentages:
    people pop. (2002) total N G % N=G
    Shapsug 3231 (2002) 106 : 81.1% 86
    Ossetian ~600,000 166 : 67.8% 113
    Terek Cossacks 425,526 (2002) 86 : 53.5% 46
    Circassian 365,804 (2002) 48 : 31.3% 15 Lezgin ~600,000 90 5.6% 5
    Avars ~5000 108 12% 13
    Chechen (Chechnya & Ingushetia) 178 5.6% 10
    Chechen (Dagestan) ~5000 72 4.2% 3
    Dargin 425,526 (2002) 86 2.3% 2
    Kaltagian 30 - -
    Kubachin 56 - -
    That's just one study. You should take into account as many as possible.

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    Wink Adige peoples haplogroup

    Adige people have mostly G2a haplogroup, I am an Adige and I am also G2a like all other adige around me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    That's just one study. You should take into account as many as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    This study has haplogroup frequencies for Russians (Kuban Cossaks) in the North Caucasus (n. 14) : Balanovsky et al. (2008) The three dominant haplogroups are R1a (47%), I2a2 (16.5%) and R1b (9%). There is only 1% of G2.
    The y-dna and mtdna studies in the Northwest part of the Caucasus Mountains would not reflect the true indigenous mountaineer tribes of the Caucasus mountains.
    the indigenous tribes of the Caucasus suffered as a result of wars and mass exodus in the nineteen century (1864) . the exodus resulted in very low ratio of indigenous mountaineers .



    The circassian Exodus , started in 1864:

    New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume XIX, Issue 1987, 17 August 1864, Page 4
    (From The Times, May 9, 1864, p.11.)


    ( the circassian exodus)




    http://www.circassianworld.com/new/war-and-genocide/1349-circassian-exodus-the-times-1864.html





    according to wikipedia the Russian–Circassian War:
    The Russian–Circassian War (1763? - 1864) ..... refers to a series of battles and wars in Circassia, the northwestern part of the Caucasus, .......... conquest of the Caucasus lasting approximately 150 years, starting under the reign of Tsar Peter the Great and being completed in 1864. ...............Those who use the term Russian–Circassian War take its starting date as 1763, when the Russians began establishing forts, including at Mozdok, to be used as springboards for conquest.
    ...................Migration
    Some sources state that three million Caucasians were evicted from Circassia in a period lasting until 1911.Other sources cite upwards of two million Circassian refugees fleeing Circassia by 1914 and entering nations and regions such as the Balkans, Turkey, what was the Ottoman Empire in what was known as the Muhajir, Syria, Lebanon, what is now Jordan, Kosovo, Egypt .., Palestine (in the villages of Kfar Kama and Rikhaniya, since 1880) and as far afield as upstate New York and New Jersey. .........

    According to historians who support the concept of a Circassian genocide, 90 percent of people with Circassian descent now live in other countries, .................., with only 300,000–400,000 remaining in what is now Russia. The depopulated Circassian lands were resettled by numerous ethnic groups, including Russians, Ukrainians ..........

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian...Circassian_War
    Last edited by MPA; 21-10-10 at 20:38.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
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    Quote Originally Posted by G2a_Adige View Post
    Adige people have mostly G2a haplogroup, I am an Adige and I am also G2a like all other adige around me.
    Thank you G2a_Adige ! You are absolutely right ! G2a is a Caucasus haplogroup found in the north and south at a high rate . The Ossetians are G at more than 60 % and they are the direct descendants of the Sarmatians and Scythians tribes some Caucasus subclades of G are associated to the Koban culture and the Bronze age of Caucasus .

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    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...try_by_Country


    A 2009 presentation by Khadizhat Dibirova indicated the following percentages:

    -
    Y-dna G2a ratio is high in the Caucasus.
    Last edited by MPA; 22-10-10 at 00:04.

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    Cuban Cossacks have nothing to do genetically with Caucasus people and do not originate in Caucasus.

    Actually ALL Cossacks were enemies of all indigenous people on Caucasus.
    They were Russians brought to enforce Russian rule on Caucasus.
    They had only one ally in indigenous people drawn from Ossetian orthodox people-Terek Cossacks.Terek Cossacks formed as second in line of Cossack hosts 7 years after the first one.
    What many think of as the "Cossack" dress was in fact the traditional style of the mountain peoples of the Caucasus.

    Cuban Cossacks borrowed it from neighboring Terek Cossacks.
    All other Cossack hosts have different, steppe uniform, simple and traditional Russian, while some had oriental influences.

    All mountain people, except Terek Cossacks who were orthodox Christians brought from Ossetia, defended themselves and raided Cuban Cossacks.
    Terek and Kuban are names of rivers, with Terek being primarily on Caucasus.

    Terek Cossacks in times of real fights ( not today's),probably had much more of G2a since more then 80% of them were Ossetians in times of actual fights. Nowadays Terek Cossacks are only 53,5% of G2a because of strategic settlements of Russian people in Terek Cossacks "liberated" territories. Presence of R1a is due to recent centuries Russian invasion.

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    Kuban Cossacks have nothing to do genetically with Caucasus people and do not originate in Caucasus.

    Actually ALL Cossacks were enemies of all indigenous people on Caucasus.
    They were Russians brought to enforce Russian rule on Caucasus.
    They had only one ally in indigenous people drawn from Ossetian orthodox people-Terek Cossacks.Terek Cossacks formed as second in line of Cossack hosts 7 years after the first one.
    What many think of as the "Cossack" dress was in fact the traditional style of the mountain peoples of the Caucasus.

    Kuban Cossacks borrowed it from neighboring Terek Cossacks.
    All other Cossack hosts have different, steppe uniform, simple and traditional Russian, while some had oriental influences.

    All mountain people, except Terek Cossacks who were orthodox Christians brought from Ossetia, defended themselves and raided Kuban Cossacks.
    Terek and Kuban are names of rivers, with Terek being primarily on Caucasus.

    Terek Cossacks in times of real fights ( not today's),probably had much more of G2a since more then 80% of them were Ossetians in times of actual fights. Nowadays Terek Cossacks are only 53,5% of G2a because of strategic settlements of Russian people in Terek Cossacks "liberated" territories. Presence of R1a is due to recent centuries Russian invasion.
    Last edited by Ivan; 24-12-10 at 23:48.

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    circassianworld.com/new/component/content/article/1589.html
    3. (SBU) Estimates of the Caucasian population in Turkey vary but range to as high as seven million.
    5. (SBU) Turkish Circassians' ancestors were forced to leave their North Caucasian homelands as Russia completed the annexation of the region in the second half of the 19th century. Celikpala estimates that over 1.5 million emigrated -- about 90 percent of the North Caucasian population at the time. They settled largely in the Ottoman Empire, in present day Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, and the Balkans, but mostly in Anatolia. A second, smaller wave of emigration to Turkey took place in 1918, as the Bolsheviks re-consolidated Russian power in the region. Finally, the GOT permitted about 600 North Caucasian legionnaires to settle in Turkey after World War II. Circassians in Anatolia settled primarily in the Marmara region around Adapazari, moving to villages based on their respective sub-identity, i.e., Abkhaz, Ossetian, etc., though these sub-groups, as well as the Georgians who came to live among them, interacted and intermarried. Anatolia's rural isolation helped ensure that Circassian culture and language persevered well into the 20th century.

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    Circassian Genetics: Abstracts and Summaries
    khazaria.com/genetics/circassians.html
    Research by Behar et al. found that the Adyghe people are mostly West Asian but also have South Asian (Pakistani region) and Northeast Asian (Altaic Mongoloid) elements. On average, they say the Adyghe have about 5.7%-5.9% Siberian ancestry and about 7% South Asian ancestry.

    Similarly, as of August 2011, DNA Tribes in their admixture summary "Genetic Links between Three SNP Based Regions in Europe" reported that the Adyghe are 86.5% Caucasus-Anatolian, 6% Pakistani-Indus, 4.7% Baltic-Urals, 1.8% Mongolian, and 0.9% Siberian.

    U is the most common mtDNA haplogroup among the Adyghe people with a frequency of 32%. Of these, 14% belong to U3, 8% to U5, 4% to U2, and 4% to U4. The mtDNA haplogroup H is encountered among 22% of the Adyghe, of which 8% belong to H1+H3. T is found among 14% of those tested, followed by I with 6%, J with 4%, X2 with 3%, K with 2%, and W with 0.5%. Other mtDNA haplogroup(s) are found among 15.5%.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurd
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogr...try_by_Country


    A 2009 presentation by Khadizhat Dibirova indicated the following percentages:

    people pop. (2002) total N G % N=G
    Shapsug 3231 (2002) 106 : 81.1% 86
    Ossetian ~600,000 166 : 67.8% 113
    Terek Cossacks 425,526 (2002) 86 : 53.5% 46
    Circassian 365,804 (2002) 48 : 31.3% 15 Lezgin ~600,000 90 5.6% 5
    Avars ~5000 108 12% 13
    Chechen (Chechnya & Ingushetia) 178 5.6% 10
    Chechen (Dagestan) ~5000 72 4.2% 3
    Dargin 425,526 (2002) 86 2.3% 2
    Kaltagian 30 - -
    Kubachin 56 - -
    they are most probably South Ossets. Northern Ossetians have beside G2a also some other major Haplogroups.

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    circassianworld.com/new/articles/1124-who-are-circassians.html
    The Circassians (who call themselves "Adyghe") are an indigenous people of the Northwest Caucasus region.

    The term "Circassian" is the English equivalent of the Turkic "Cherkess". Although this term has sometimes been used in a broad sense to include the Adyghe, the Abkhaz-Abaza and the Ubykhs - whose respective languages belong to the North-West Caucasian family group - or indiscriminately, to all the peoples of the North Caucasus, it should refer more precisely to the inhabitants of historical Circassia, the Adyghe.

    Today, only a minority of Circassians live in their divided ancestral homeland, mainly in three republics of the Russian Federation (Kabardino Balkaria, Karachay-Cherkessia and Adygheya), the majority having been forced to migrate to the Ottoman Empire following the 19th century Russian conquest of the Caucasus.
    ***
    Circassian population in Turkey
    Total 5,5-6 million

    Circassian population in Russia
    Population: Percentage of the population
    - Kabardians 519,958: Kabardino-Balkaria – 52.5
    - Adygeyans 128,528: Adygeya – 25.2
    - Cherkesses 60,517: Karachaevo-Cherkesia – 11.2

    Total 740 thousand

    Circassian population in Syria
    Total 170-200 thousand

    Circassian population in Jordan
    Total 90-100 thousand

    Circassian population in EU
    Total 60-80 thousand

    Circassian population in Iraq
    Total 30-35 thousand

    Circassian population in Libya
    Total 25-30 thousand

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    Thank you G2a_Adige ! You are absolutely right ! G2a is a Caucasus haplogroup found in the north and south at a high rate . The Ossetians are G at more than 60 % and they are the direct descendants of the Sarmatians and Scythians tribes some Caucasus subclades of G are associated to the Koban culture and the Bronze age of Caucasus .
    I would say that Ossetians are the result of the mingling of previous Scythians and Sarmatians with local populations: I think Y-G is the heritage from the mountainers and that Steppes people had probably a majority of Y-R1a...

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I would say that Ossetians are the result of the mingling of previous Scythians and Sarmatians with local populations: I think Y-G is the heritage from the mountainers and that Steppes people had probably a majority of Y-R1a...
    I was unprecise:
    I would say: not very Sarmatians but Sarmatians's cousins as Alans/Alani that stayed a long time around present day Ossetia and cross with autochtonous people by the fact, according to some scholars

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    Quote Originally Posted by G2a_Adige View Post
    Adige people have mostly G2a haplogroup, I am an Adige and I am also G2a like all other adige around me.
    Adige People? Do you mean Adygeya?

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