Race and IQ

[Goga]

There're genius & very gifted Africans and there're very stupid Africans. Like everywhere else, also in Europe. If you think that stupid & retarded European folks don't exist, take a look at stormfront!!

It's part of their African culture the way they live. Do you really think that in all this time there was never an African as smart as Einstein who could tell his people how to live?

Jews and Arabs have same roots. But at this moment Jews are achieving MUCH more than Arabs.

It's all about culture, education and your parents.

 

[Goga]

Most folks are stupid sheep. All they need is a good shepherd to be guided to the right direction.

 

[ultralars]

Edao Thats not the reason we abandoned that way of living.

The africans has a non changing temperature, That means that once they have developed enough technology,culture, etc to survive there is never going to be a need for change cause you can just do the same thing all trough the year, which of course became tradition.

In europe and asia it's a little different. There is constant need for change and adaption to survive. You need to plan ahead to survive the winter, you need to organize to do things effectively, etc,etc. This of course resulted in the formation of big cities and countries. Which revolutionised the way ideas a spread, again accelerating the rate that new technology is created. Constant wars also ensured there always was a need for new technology, even when we had developed a good enough culture so survive winter and such.

Also Goga, there probably haven't been a pure african( except from egypt and those areas) that was as smart as einstein. Why has jews achieved much more than Arabs? also Judaism is a religion which involves studying.You need to look at arabian history.

 

[Goga]

Also Goga, there probably haven't been a pure african( except from egypt and those areas) that was as smart as einstein. Why has jews achieved much more than Arabs? also Judaism is a religion which involves studying.You need to look at arabian history.

?

Of course I'm sure there are nowadays many 'pure' Africans that are smarter than Einstein.

And I'm not talking about the Arabic history. Arabic history is great. Those folks achieved much things in the past. There was a time when Arabs were years ahead to Europeans in science, knowledge and technology. The Europeans learned a lot of things from Arabs on the medical field. But somehow their development has been stagnated in the recent times. I don't think this does mean that they're more stupid than in the past.

I'm talking about now. Jews are the regional 'superpower'. They have democracy, they are more powerful and have more influence on the world, while most peoples in the Arabic countries are very poor. How is it possible.
They were something but nowadays they're almost nothing. Somehow they're now the slaves of the modern western world. They're now the puppets of the western world.

It's not going well in the Arabistan. Does this mean they are now more stupid than the Europeans? Are modern Turks more stupid than their Ottoman ancestors? I don't think so.

But I do really think that people in Africa are somehow more lazy, and laziness is very bad for the development of humans and their country. Maybe because of it is so warm in Africa. I believe that laziness is somehow correlated with the mindset and the culture of that country. That's why I believe that culture is one of the biggest factors in the human evolution. If you work and perform you evolve and perform even more!

 

[Dorianfinder]

?

Of course I'm sure there are nowadays many 'pure' Africans that are smarter than Einstein.

And I'm not talking about the Arabic history. Arabic history is great. Those folks achieved much things in the past. There was a time when Arabs were years ahead to Europeans in science, knowledge and technology. The Europeans learned a lot of things from Arabs on the medical field. But somehow their development has been stagnated in the recent times. I don't think this does mean that they're more stupid than in the past.

I'm talking about now. Jews are the regional 'superpower'. They have democracy, they are more powerful and have more influence on the world, while most peoples in the Arabic countries are very poor. How is it possible.
They were something but nowadays they're almost nothing. Somehow they're now the slaves of the modern western world. They're now the puppets of the western world.

It's not going well in the Arabistan. Does this mean they are now more stupid than the Europeans? Are modern Turks more stupid than their Ottoman ancestors? I don't think so.

But I do really think that people in Africa are somehow more lazy, and laziness is very bad for the development of humans and their country. Maybe because of it is so warm in Africa. I believe that laziness is somehow correlated with the mindset and the culture of that country. That's why I believe that culture is one of the biggest factors in the human evolution. If you work and perform you evolve and perform even more!

Education and childhood development are related to things like stimulation, dietary requirements, education and economic prosperity.

To make the leap from IQ to race one would have to bring Africa to the socio-economic level of developed countries first, and possibly wait a few thousand years for natural development to take hold as an institution uniquely African. Only then can we compare IQ of Africa and developed countries.

The problem in Africa is poor governance. Africa has the resources and the land, it doesn't have the leaders to take it forward.

 

[Antigone]

?But I do really think that people in Africa are somehow more lazy, and laziness is very bad for the development of humans and their country. Maybe because of it is so warm in Africa. I believe that laziness is somehow correlated with the mindset and the culture of that country. That's why I believe that culture is one of the biggest factors in the human evolution. If you work and perform you evolve and perform even more!

Woah, hang on a minute.

In the majority of African cultures it is traditionally the females who own and take care of the livestock, plant and take care of the crops, build the houses, weave the cloth and baskets, make all the pottery, care for and raise the children, cook and prepare all the food, care for the sick and keep everyone and everything as clean as possible. The male section made war and hunted, full stop.

So no, Africans are not lazy. The African males who still follow traditional ways possibly, but African females? Never.

I agree with you re African IQ though. The only difference between Africa and Europe is purely cultural, educational and enviromental.

 

[Goga]

So no, Africans are not lazy. The African males who still follow traditional ways possibly, but African females? Never.

Lol, my perception of Africans is that they're lazy. I don't like to generalize, but I think it's (lazinees, unemployment etc.) more allowed and accepted in African and Middle Eastern cultures.

Why do you think people in the Western world and Japan are more developed? Discipline has been programmed into their minds.

I was born and raised in the USSR. If you was unemployed in the USSR you could go to jail. It is big contrast between USSR on one side and Africa or Middle East on the other.

Not IQ, but discipline is the magic word!

 

[LeBrok]

A very interesting study about heritability of IQ.

Score of 1.00 would show full heritability of IQ in monozigotal twins. In theory, because in real life even same person doesn't get 1.00, it is closer to 0.95. I guess, we have bad days and good days.

Well, we have 0.76 for identical twins reared apart, compared with 0.86 when living together. That's damn close when you compare to unrelated people score of 0.19.


Another summary:

• Same person (tested twice) .95
• Identical twins—Reared together .86
• Identical twins—Reared apart .76
• Fraternal twins—Reared together .55
• Fraternal twins—Reared apart .35
• Biological siblings—Reared together .47
• Biological siblings—Reared apart .24
• Unrelated children—Reared together .30
• Parent-child—Living together .42
• Parent-child—Living apart .22
• Adoptive parent–child—Living together .19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

 

[Dorianfinder]

Woah, hang on a minute.

In the majority of African cultures it is traditionally the females who own and take care of the livestock, plant and take care of the crops, build the houses, weave the cloth and baskets, make all the pottery, care for and raise the children, cook and prepare all the food, care for the sick and keep everyone and everything as clean as possible. The male section made war and hunted, full stop.

So no, Africans are not lazy. The African males who still follow traditional ways possibly, but African females? Never.

I agree with you re African IQ though. The only difference between Africa and Europe is purely cultural, educational and enviromental.

African women do not own much, especially valued livestock. The elder of the village provides the land to men not women. Africa is still a traditional patriarchal society where the men have to pay the bridal fee to the bride's father. Cattle are very valuable in African tribal culture. The hunter-gatherer tribes are very few and can be found in isolated spots such as the Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert and the San or Khoi-Khoi.

 

[Antigone]

In some African tribes it is indeed the women who own the cattle and not the men as do the Maasai, for example.

But I think we are all guilty here of massive generalisations. Africa is a massive continent and is as diverse linguistically and culturally as Europe, if not more so, and to lump everyone together as "Africans" is rather counter-productive.

Here is a list of the ethnic groups inside Africa, I counted 86.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Tribes

 

[LeBrok]

Lol, my perception of Africans is that they're lazy. I don't like to generalize, but I think it's (lazinees, unemployment etc.) more allowed and accepted in African and Middle Eastern cultures.

Why do you think people in the Western world and Japan are more developed? Discipline has been programmed into their minds.

I was born and raised in the USSR. If you was unemployed in the USSR you could go to jail. It is big contrast between USSR on one side and Africa or Middle East on the other.

Not IQ, but discipline is the magic word!

If you label people with words with socio-emotional context you will fail to understand how world really works. Word "Lazy" have a bad connotation, but it shouldn't. In nature there is no bad things or good things. They are just are different things. All things can be beneficial under right circumstances. For example "lazy", or rather energy conserving trait, can be a beneficial for individual or a group of people in certain environments. If you in Africa and work like workaholic in a middle of the day in +40C it can be fatal. Your workaholic genes are finished and not carried over to next generation.
Same thing in times of food scarcity. Running around like crazy looking for food that is not there will exhaust you and kill, together with your kids. Sitting around, conserving energy, often is more beneficial and lets you survive till next rain, or till next successful hunting. This is typical for Prairie Indians or Australia Aboriginies. Pure hunter-gatherers.
Most of Europeans will label them lazy, as per their mind set of Western hard working/production oriented philosophy of life.
Yes, it's true they are not adopted to western way of life. They are excellently adopted to their hunter-gatherer ways, and survived in local environments for tens of thousands of years. Now this their big success.

Now, before you start comparing others to western, as you put "developed" (most likely meaning "superior") ways of life, keep in mind that we are only "developed" for last couple of hundreds of years. It is a damn short time to decide if the new ways (superior ways) are good, meaning beneficial for our groups. If we survive ten of thousands of years, preferably a million, in this developed stage, then you can claim that.
Unfortunately, we got so developed that population of western countries are falling down in numbers. Japan from 120 million people in 80s, is down to 110 or 105 now. Europe is following this trend too. With this speed our developed civilization will vanish in couple of hundred of years.
Now tell me, is being developed a good thing or a bad one for our species?

As hunter-gatherers we existed for millions of years, as agriculturalists for 10 thousand, as technological society for couple of hundreds (and maybe near the end?). How do we measure success and superiority?
Keep in mind that life on earth is always about next generation. It's not about your happiness, or your culture, or language. It's about your genes, and your genes being carried over to next generation. If this principle is not fulfilled, your line is dead. If group fails, then your species can be wiped out too from this planet.
Life on earth is about next generation. Judging by this definition of life on earth and history of humans, we can conclude that so far we were the most successful when we were hunter-gatherers. We had more generations than agriculturalists and "developed" westerners combined.

 

[Goga]

Thank you for your essay, I like your way of thinking.

But I do really think you made 1 mistake. In evolution is development / progression crucial. If you want that your species evolve you must be productive. If you aiming the creation of new values being lazy is forbidden.

I think that Nietsche was right when he defended the principles of the Zoroastrian religion.

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

Woah, hang on a minute.

In the majority of African cultures it is traditionally the females who own and take care of the livestock, plant and take care of the crops, build the houses, weave the cloth and baskets, make all the pottery, care for and raise the children, cook and prepare all the food, care for the sick and keep everyone and everything as clean as possible. The male section made war and hunted, full stop.

So no, Africans are not lazy. The African males who still follow traditional ways possibly, but African females? Never.

I agree with you re African IQ though. The only difference between Africa and Europe is purely cultural, educational and enviromental.

That is very true! While many African males traditionally were hunters, warriors and herders (if they owned cattle), the women were responsible for the field work, children and preparation of food. Now that hunters, warriors and herders are not longer needed, and the unemployment rate is high, many men do... nothing! They meet their pals and if money is available, many also drink a lot. On the other hand, the tasks for women have been extended to a lot of household business, work on the market etc...

Basically I do think that a different perception of time and a highly relaxed mentality does have a limiting factor on a country's economy (among other things). Last year I gave a longer explanation to that circumstance in this thread:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26016-African-Culture-compared-to-European

 

[LeBrok]

Thank you for your essay, I like your way of thinking.

But I do really think you made 1 mistake. In evolution is development / progression crucial. If you want that your species evolve you must be productive. If you aiming the creation of new values being lazy is forbidden.

I think that Nietsche was right when he defended the principles of the Zoroastrian religion.

Look at bacteria. On Earth for good 3 billion years (multi-cellular organisms date back 700 million years), and in quite unchanged form. Survived big disasters, climate changes, dinosaurs, etc, and it doesn't care if it's developed/progressed at all. I think this is the biggest success story of life on Earth. It can even survive in space without space suit for some time. Who knows, maybe it flew here on meteorite from Mars?
Regardless if it did or not, the simple bacteria shows us that development is not crucial for successful life at all. The advantage it has is in mutations (the way it fights antibiotics). When climate/environment changes there are always few bacterias that are ready for it in any time. Most likely dinosaurs didn't have this ability and when climate changed drastically 70 million years ago, they were not ready and died out.

I agree that in western, production oriented, technological society the energy conserving mode (laziness) is considered a bad thing. We shouldn't use it though as derogatory term describing people living in different environments and coming from different evolutionary backgrounds. ................geez, it sound freakishly politically correct, lol. (From now on there are no races, there are just different evolutionary backgrounds .

Imagine developed world 100 or 1000 years from now. We have robots all over the place, working for us, slaving for us, cleaning for us. What people will do to fill a day? If you are genetically work oriented person, workaholic, you will be doomed. No productive work for you. Maybe a hobby, so these kind of people will have a hard time to live and enjoy life.
On other hand, lazy people will enjoy new life. They will be in heaven!
Depending on circumstances and environment, the lazy people can save our civilization, they will give it a purpose. They will be ready to fill new world, with perfect adaptation, like ever-ready ubiquitous bacteria.

 

[Antigone]

Imagine developed world 100 or 1000 years from now. We have robots all over the place, working for us, slaving for us, cleaning for us. What people will do to fill a day? If you are genetically work oriented person, workaholic, you will be doomed. No productive work for you. Maybe a hobby, so these kind of people will have a hard time to live and enjoy life.
On other hand, lazy people will enjoy new life. They will be in heaven!

I suppose we could say that man is still making tools, and has been busily doing it since someone first used a rock to crack open a nut. But we have gone from using tools to assist us in our survival to developing and using tools that do the work for us thus enabling us to do practically nothing.

So on some level, I'd contend that all humans are basically lazy. And we have taken the tool making to such an extreme that not only are our tools now designed to do the work for us but in developing robots, we have even made tools to make the tools!

 

[LeBrok]

Exactly Antigone.
I would like to add that this is a back door to communism. Robots will produce goods that people will consume, but how do we divide them among citizens if nobody works for money? Maybe governments will give us points for good behavior, so we trade them for products?
The only just method will be to give goods equally to all. Money for free and goods for free, no one should complain to laud.
Funny thing is that communism only works if people don't have to work. If people work, sweat and suffer for money they don't want to share them too much.

 

[LeBrok]

Woah, hang on a minute.

In the majority of African cultures it is traditionally the females who own and take care of the livestock, plant and take care of the crops, build the houses, weave the cloth and baskets, make all the pottery, care for and raise the children, cook and prepare all the food, care for the sick and keep everyone and everything as clean as possible. The male section made war and hunted, full stop.

QUOTE]

Right on. I think that women were the first farmers, not men. They were the first to tend to gardens, seed and harvest wheats, serials and vegetables in fields around houses.

 

[Mzungu mchagga]

I agree that in western, production oriented, technological society the energy conserving mode (laziness) is considered a bad thing. We shouldn't use it though as derogatory term describing people living in different environments and coming from different evolutionary backgrounds. ................geez, it sound freakishly politically correct, lol. (From now on there are no races, there are just different evolutionary backgrounds .

I will have to remember that one: DEB (different evolutionary background) in energy conserving mode

 

[Antigone]

Does he come with a green label too, because energy conservation is enviromentally friendly?

Sorry, couldn't resist the joke!

But yes Lebrok, I think women were the first farmers too. If men were the protectors and hunters, I don't see how it could have been otherwise.

 

[ultralars]

Haha good one antigone xD