Is Turkey a Western country ? OFFTOPIC about Iberians

Status
Not open for further replies.
Even Norway and Finland have mtDNA L ....it has nothing to do with African admixture. Again, you are confusing mtDNA with admixture. For admixture, see AUTOSOMAL studies :


laoplotvu4.jpg
 
This is one of many studies that have established the presence of substantial sub-Saharan ancestry in Portugal due to the slave trade.
Diversity of mtDNA lineages in Portugal: not a genetic edge of European variation.
Annals of Human Genetics 64 (6), 491-506.


[...]
These haplogroups have been reported to be characteristic of African populations, where their frequency is inversely correlated with the North-South axis: the frequency of U6 is high in North Africa and decreases in a southerly direction, being almost absent south of the equator; the L cluster has an opposite distribution (Rando et al. 1998, 1999; Watson et al. 1996; Mateu et al. 1996).
In Portugal, as well as generally in Iberia, many migration waves from both North and sub-Saharan African populations are well documented. The geographical proximity of North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula certainly afforded many opportunities for mutual population contacts. Among them, we stress the movement of Berbers and Arabs that took place during the very recent Muslim rule of Iberia (from the 8th century to the end of the 15th, in some regions). In addition, many sub-Saharan individuals entered the region during the slave trade period, from its very beginning (middle 15th century) until its total ban in the late 19th century.
As it would be interesting to find out the origin of the L and U6 sequences detected in Portugal, we have tried to compare the motifs of the sequences observed in Portugal with those described in the literature for several populations (Figures 3 and 4). However most of the matches found for the Portuguese sequences were with sequences widely distributed in Africa, and no clear pattern of geographic clustering was detected.
A striking aspect observed for the U6 haplogroup was that 5 out of 7 of the Portuguese sequences were unique to Portugal, not allowing, therefore, any accurate assignment of their geographical origin. The Canarian characteristic sub-haplogroup U6b1 (Rando et al. 1999), observed in other Iberian samples, was not detected in the present study.
Admitting that U6 sequences could have been at least partially introduced by Berber people during the Muslim rule of Iberia, it is strange to find them restricted to North Portugal. As a matter of fact, most historical sources document a deeper influence of Berber (as well as Arab) people in Central and particularly South Iberia (as judged from toponyms and general cultural aænities), compared to North Iberia where the Muslim presence is recorded to have been more ephemeral and consequently to have made less cultural and demographic impact. The data does not exclude the possibility that U6 introductions could have been additionally reinforced by later sub-Saharan inputs mediated by the African slave trade. Even if this mixed scenario is plausible, the presence of U6 sequences exclusively in North Portugal is a question that deserves further analysis. The hypothesis of an earlier introduction in the region does not seem to be favoured, neither by its presence in a restricted geographical area, nor by the high level of heterogeneity that characterizes the set of sequences that were found among this haplogroup.

With respect to the L sequences, it is widely accepted that they have a sub-Saharan origin, excepting some L3* lineages that, as analysis of Figure 4 suggests, might indeed have a non-African origin. The presence of L sequences in North African regions does not allow us to exclude the possibility that population influxes from this region, namely the above referred Berber/Arab movement, have introduced significant fraction of L sequences into Iberia. However, it seems more likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves, since the country was actively involved in the Transatlantic slave trade. Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterized.
There were more African slaves in Portugal than in any other European country: in 1550, Lisbon boasted 10000 resident slaves in a population of 100000, and Portugal as a whole probably had over 40000 (Thomas, 1998). In the mid-sixteenth century the birth of slaves' children was stimulated in Portugal for internal trade purposes. Inter-breeding between autochthonous individuals and African slaves certainly occurred and the predominant mating must have been between slave African females and autochthonous males, due to social pressures and also for legal reasons: offspring of slave females would be slaves, whereas offspring of slave males would not. Therefore, breeding between slave African males and white females, besides being socially repressed, would not bring any economic profit.
If the pattern of genetic admixture was markedly sex influenced, the signature of this recent African influence would be expected to be very different in the maternally inherited gene pool and in the paternally inherited one. In a recent study based on Y chromosome biallelic markers (Pereira
et al
. 2000) we have reported the absence of typical sub-Saharan haplogroups in the Y chromosome Portuguese pool. This finding, and the detection of L sequences at 7.1% in the mitochondrial pool, both seem to support the above-mentioned pattern of admixture with African slaves.

Sharing the features of mtDNA diversity generally registered in Europeans (all European haplogroups were detected), Portugal has in addition received significant North and sub-Saharan African influences. Frequencies of haplogroups specific to these regions were higher than those reported for other European populations: 7% of North African sequences were detected (restricted to North Portugal and representing almost 3%of the total sample), and sub-Saharan African sequences were found to be spread throughout the country, with frequencies between 5% and 9.8%. Although statistically significant differences were not detected between the three sub-samples considered, the geographic distribution pattern observed for U6 and L sequences strongly suggest that different population movements were responsible for their introduction into the country, although none of them had enough demographic impact to induce regional differentiation.
The introduction of L sequences in Portugal was tentatively imputed mainly to the modern slave trade that occurred between the 15th and 19th centuries. Both the great number of slaves that entered Portugal and their very diverse African geographic origin are consistent with the data set now reported. However, we cannot exclude some North-African contribution to present-day Portuguese L lineages.

While the population movement associated with the slave trade may be responsible by some U6 inputs, we suggest that U6 sequences were predominantly introduced into Portugal during the Berber/Arab invasion of the Peninsula. However, the observation that haplogroup U6 is restricted to North Portugal is puzzling, considering the more pronounced impact of the Muslin rule in south Iberia and the widespread presence of African slaves throughout the country, and deserves further investigation.

So much of the information you have posted, particularly that which is historical, has been criticized and refuted endlessly. What do you have against Portuguese / Iberians?
 
Last edited:
STRUCTURE studies, which do not find any peculiarly higher admixture levels, sub-Saharan or otherwise, in Southern Europeans than among Northern Europeans. In fact, some of these studies have found LOWER admixture levels in some Southern Europeans, including Spaniards:


ekm6h1.png
 
A study that says only 0.00% of Spaniards have L (sample size 686) :

http://biotech-events.ifrance.com/CONFERENCES2006/037 LOPEZ_PEREZ.pdf

The authors separated the region of Andalusia, in Southern Spain, from the rest of the country. No L mtDNA was found in the 686 non-Andalusian Spanish sample, and only 1.9% was found among the 158 Andalusian sample. If we "pool" all the samples together (686 + 158 = 844) that gives a total frequency of 0.35% for the whole country (a lower frequency than other studies have found for places like Finland, Norway, Albania, Italy, Germany, etc.)
 
Even Norway and Finland have mtDNA L ....it has nothing to do with African admixture.

I repeat, the mtdna L in Portugal is substantially of recent sub-Saharan African origin from the slave trade.

Diversity of mtDNA lineages in Portugal: not a genetic edge of European variation.
Annals of Human Genetics 64 (6), 491-506.

[...]

With respect to the L sequences, it is widely accepted that they have a sub-Saharan origin, excepting some L3* lineages that, as analysis of Figure 4 suggests, might indeed have a non-African origin. The presence of L sequences in North African regions does not allow us to exclude the possibility that population influxes from this region, namely the above referred Berber/Arab movement, have introduced significant fraction of L sequences into Iberia. However, it seems more likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves, since the country was actively involved in the Transatlantic slave trade. Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterized.

There were more African slaves in Portugal than in any other European country: in 1550, Lisbon boasted 10000 resident slaves in a population of 100000, and Portugal as a whole probably had over 40000 (Thomas, 1998). In the mid-sixteenth century the birth of slaves' children was stimulated in Portugal for internal trade purposes. Inter-breeding between autochthonous individuals and African slaves certainly occurred and the predominant mating must have been between slave African females and autochthonous males, due to social pressures and also for legal reasons: offspring of slave females would be slaves, whereas offspring of slave males would not. Therefore, breeding between slave African males and white females, besides being socially repressed, would not bring any economic profit.
 
This is one of many studies that have established the presence of substantial sub-Saharan ancestry in Portugal due to the slave trade.
Diversity of mtDNA lineages in Portugal: not a genetic edge of European variation.
Annals of Human Genetics 64 (6), 491-506.


[...]
These haplogroups have been reported to be characteristic of African populations, where their frequency is inversely correlated with the North-South axis: the frequency of U6 is high in North Africa and decreases in a southerly direction, being almost absent south of the equator; the L cluster has an opposite distribution (Rando et al. 1998, 1999; Watson et al. 1996; Mateu et al. 1996).
In Portugal, as well as generally in Iberia, many migration waves from both North and sub-Saharan African populations are well documented. The geographical proximity of North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula certainly afforded many opportunities for mutual population contacts. Among them, we stress the movement of Berbers and Arabs that took place during the very recent Muslim rule of Iberia (from the 8th century to the end of the 15th, in some regions). In addition, many sub-Saharan individuals entered the region during the slave trade period, from its very beginning (middle 15th century) until its total ban in the late 19th century.
As it would be interesting to find out the origin of the L and U6 sequences detected in Portugal, we have tried to compare the motifs of the sequences observed in Portugal with those described in the literature for several populations (Figures 3 and 4). However most of the matches found for the Portuguese sequences were with sequences widely distributed in Africa, and no clear pattern of geographic clustering was detected.
A striking aspect observed for the U6 haplogroup was that 5 out of 7 of the Portuguese sequences were unique to Portugal, not allowing, therefore, any accurate assignment of their geographical origin. The Canarian characteristic sub-haplogroup U6b1 (Rando et al. 1999), observed in other Iberian samples, was not detected in the present study.
Admitting that U6 sequences could have been at least partially introduced by Berber people during the Muslim rule of Iberia, it is strange to find them restricted to North Portugal. As a matter of fact, most historical sources document a deeper influence of Berber (as well as Arab) people in Central and particularly South Iberia (as judged from toponyms and general cultural aænities), compared to North Iberia where the Muslim presence is recorded to have been more ephemeral and consequently to have made less cultural and demographic impact. The data does not exclude the possibility that U6 introductions could have been additionally reinforced by later sub-Saharan inputs mediated by the African slave trade. Even if this mixed scenario is plausible, the presence of U6 sequences exclusively in North Portugal is a question that deserves further analysis. The hypothesis of an earlier introduction in the region does not seem to be favoured, neither by its presence in a restricted geographical area, nor by the high level of heterogeneity that characterizes the set of sequences that were found among this haplogroup.

With respect to the L sequences, it is widely accepted that they have a sub-Saharan origin, excepting some L3* lineages that, as analysis of Figure 4 suggests, might indeed have a non-African origin. The presence of L sequences in North African regions does not allow us to exclude the possibility that population influxes from this region, namely the above referred Berber/Arab movement, have introduced significant fraction of L sequences into Iberia. However, it seems more likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves, since the country was actively involved in the Transatlantic slave trade. Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterized.
There were more African slaves in Portugal than in any other European country: in 1550, Lisbon boasted 10000 resident slaves in a population of 100000, and Portugal as a whole probably had over 40000 (Thomas, 1998). In the mid-sixteenth century the birth of slaves' children was stimulated in Portugal for internal trade purposes. Inter-breeding between autochthonous individuals and African slaves certainly occurred and the predominant mating must have been between slave African females and autochthonous males, due to social pressures and also for legal reasons: offspring of slave females would be slaves, whereas offspring of slave males would not. Therefore, breeding between slave African males and white females, besides being socially repressed, would not bring any economic profit.
If the pattern of genetic admixture was markedly sex influenced, the signature of this recent African influence would be expected to be very different in the maternally inherited gene pool and in the paternally inherited one. In a recent study based on Y chromosome biallelic markers (Pereira
et al
. 2000) we have reported the absence of typical sub-Saharan haplogroups in the Y chromosome Portuguese pool. This finding, and the detection of L sequences at 7.1% in the mitochondrial pool, both seem to support the above-mentioned pattern of admixture with African slaves.

Sharing the features of mtDNA diversity generally registered in Europeans (all European haplogroups were detected), Portugal has in addition received significant North and sub-Saharan African influences. Frequencies of haplogroups specific to these regions were higher than those reported for other European populations: 7% of North African sequences were detected (restricted to North Portugal and representing almost 3%of the total sample), and sub-Saharan African sequences were found to be spread throughout the country, with frequencies between 5% and 9.8%. Although statistically significant differences were not detected between the three sub-samples considered, the geographic distribution pattern observed for U6 and L sequences strongly suggest that different population movements were responsible for their introduction into the country, although none of them had enough demographic impact to induce regional differentiation.
The introduction of L sequences in Portugal was tentatively imputed mainly to the modern slave trade that occurred between the 15th and 19th centuries. Both the great number of slaves that entered Portugal and their very diverse African geographic origin are consistent with the data set now reported. However, we cannot exclude some North-African contribution to present-day Portuguese L lineages.

While the population movement associated with the slave trade may be responsible by some U6 inputs, we suggest that U6 sequences were predominantly introduced into Portugal during the Berber/Arab invasion of the Peninsula. However, the observation that haplogroup U6 is restricted to North Portugal is puzzling, considering the more pronounced impact of the Muslin rule in south Iberia and the widespread presence of African slaves throughout the country, and deserves further investigation.

Check the haplogroups tables ON THIS SITE. The Portuguese have relatively little Near-Eastern markers, either Y or mt-DNA. And, most of E is pre-Neolithic M-81 (Eurasian Berber). The countries that are most Near-Eastern and with Mid-Eastern markers are Italy, Greece and a number of Balkan states.
 
It is not recent. One only has to check the levels in areas that had no Black Africans to speak of like N. Portugal / Galicia (Spain). SS markers have been recorded there with no black populations to speak of historically. Of course most of the SS markers are old.
 
Here is another scientific study that has established substantial sub-Saharan mtdna in Portugal due to the slave trade. The Portuguese are hybrid Afro-Europeans.

Mitochondrial DNA affinities at the Atlantic fringe of Europe.

Gonzalez AM, Brehm A, Perez JA, Maca-Meyer N, Flores C, Cabrera VM.

Departamento de Genetica, Universidad de La Laguna, 38271 La Laguna, Tenerife, Spain. [email protected]

Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Atlantic European samples has detected significant latitudinal clines for several clusters with Paleolithic (H) and Neolithic (J, U4, U5a1, and U5a1a) coalescence ages in Europe. These gradients may be explained as the result of Neolithic influence on a rather homogeneous Paleolithic background. There is also evidence that some Neolithic clusters reached this border by a continental route (J, J1, J1a, U5a1, and U5a1a), whereas others (J2) did so through the Mediterranean coast. An important gene flow from Africa was detected in the Atlantic Iberia. Specific sub-Saharan lineages appeared mainly restricted to southern Portugal, and could be attributed to historic Black slave trade in the area and to a probable Saharan Neolithic influence. In fact, U6 haplotypes of specific North African origin have only been detected in the Iberian peninsula northwards from central Portugal. Based on this peculiar distribution and the high diversity pi value (0.014 +/- 0.001) in this area compared to North Africa (0.006 +/- 0.001), we reject the proposal that only historic events such as the Moslem occupation are the main cause of this gene flow, and instead propose a pre-Neolithic origin for it.


The haplogroup frequencies and sample sizes for the populations analyzed are given in Table 1. The haplotype with the reference sequence (CRS, Anderson et al., 1981) is the most abundant haplotype in all samples, although values range from 11.7% in northwest Africa to 21.7% in north Portugal.

As expected, sub-Saharan African influence, represented by haplotypes classified in L and Ml clusters, is important in northwest Africa (26.1%) but negligible in Europe, with the exception of south Portugal (11.7%).

On the other hand, subhaplogroup U6, of North African origin (Rando et al., 1998), has a local presence in Europe, being detected only in northwest Iberian Peninsula. The differential geographic distributions of these sub-Saharan African and northwest African haplogroups in the Iberian Peninsula are statistically significant: L and Ml clusters are more abundant in south Portugal (x = 9.81; P < 0.01), and U6 in northern areas (x = 5.83; P < 0.05).

Cluster U5, with coalescence ages in the early Upper Paleolithic, and a probable European origin (Richards et a!, 2000) reaches its highest frequencies for its ancestral motives in Britain (x = 11.74; P < 0.001) when compared to other continental areas such as Scandinavia, Germany, France, and the Iberian Peninsula.

With respect to northwest Africa, the geographically localized distribution of matches and haplotypes of sub-Saharan African and northwest African origin in the Iberian Peninsula is noteworthy. This distribution cannot be totally explained by a historic genetic influence from the Moslem occupation (Pereira et. al., 2000). During that time, the haplotype composition of northwest Africa had to be similar to that of the present, and for this reason, sub-Saharan African L and northwest African U6 haplotypes should be uniformly distributed in the Iberian peninsula.

However, with respect to the sub-Saharan Africa lineages, the recent history of the Black slave trade carried out by the Portuguese (mainly in the 15th and 16th centuries), with a well-documented import in southern Portugal (Godinho, 1983), could also be a plausible alternative to explain the presence of these African haplotypes in this region. (Pereira et al 2000) To test this possibility we compared the proportion of sub-Saharan Africa haplotype matches between the Iberian Peninsula and northwest Africa (0.75%) with those of the Iberian Peninsula and a sample of sub-Saharan Africans from the Gulf of Guinea.

These results suggest that, although both prehistoric and historical influences likely contributed to the sub-Saharan African haplotype pool present in the Iberian peninsula, the former seems to be more important.

Our results are in agreement with the gene flow (19.5%) from northwest Africa to the Iberian Peninsula estimated in a recent study of variation in the autosomic CD4 locus (Flores et al., 2000b), and with the evidence of northwest African male input in Iberia calculated at around 20%, using the relative frequency of northwest African Y-chromosome-specific markers in Iberian samples (Flores et al, 2000a).

Furthermore, our results clearly reinforce, extend, and clarify the preliminary clues of an important mtDNA contribution from northwest Africa into the Iberian Peninsula (Côrte-Real et al., 1996; Rando et al., 1998; Flores et al., 2000a; Rocha et al., 1999). On the basis of the Lib frequencies detected in Spanish and Portuguese samples (2—3%) and those found in western Africa (10-30%), a significant influence (at least 10%) of North Africans in have reached the Iberian Peninsula gene pool has also been admitted (Rocha et al., 1999).

In a similar way, and discarding possible genetic drift effects, our own data allow us to make minimal estimates of the maternal African pre Neolithic, and/or recent slave trade input into Iberia. For the former, we consider only the mean value of the U6 frequency in northern African populations, excluding Saharans, Tuareg, and Mauritanians (16%), as the pre-Neolithic frequency in that area, and the present frequency in the whole Iberian Peninsula (2.3%) as the result of the northwest African gene flow at that time.

The value obtained (14%) could be as high as 35% using the data of Côrte-Real et al. (1996), or 27% with our north Portugal sample.

In the same vein, the Saharan Neolithic gene flow can be estimated as 13%, taking the actual frequencies for the sub-Saharan African haplogroups (51%) in southern northwest African samples (Tuareg, Saharans, and Mauritanians) as the frequency of the African Neolithic, and that of the Iberian Peninsula (6.8%) as the result of the putative Neolithic maternal gene flow. This value could rise to 23% when only south Portugal is taken into account.

However, if we admit a recent 10% of slave trade input into this region, as historically documented (Godinho, 1983), 13% would be left for the putative Saharan Neolithic gene flow.
 
I repeat, the mtdna L in Portugal is substantially of recent sub-Saharan African origin from the slave trade.

Diversity of mtDNA lineages in Portugal: not a genetic edge of European variation.
Annals of Human Genetics 64 (6), 491-506.

[...]

With respect to the L sequences, it is widely accepted that they have a sub-Saharan origin, excepting some L3* lineages that, as analysis of Figure 4 suggests, might indeed have a non-African origin. The presence of L sequences in North African regions does not allow us to exclude the possibility that population influxes from this region, namely the above referred Berber/Arab movement, have introduced significant fraction of L sequences into Iberia. However, it seems more likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves, since the country was actively involved in the Transatlantic slave trade. Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterized.

There were more African slaves in Portugal than in any other European country: in 1550, Lisbon boasted 10000 resident slaves in a population of 100000, and Portugal as a whole probably had over 40000 (Thomas, 1998). In the mid-sixteenth century the birth of slaves' children was stimulated in Portugal for internal trade purposes. Inter-breeding between autochthonous individuals and African slaves certainly occurred and the predominant mating must have been between slave African females and autochthonous males, due to social pressures and also for legal reasons: offspring of slave females would be slaves, whereas offspring of slave males would not. Therefore, breeding between slave African males and white females, besides being socially repressed, would not bring any economic profit.

You are VERY wrong. You are just repeating the same old tired brain-dead racist arguments that have been flushed down the toilet repeatedly by anyone with half a mind.

Again, here is my challenge to you: put together all your material and idiotic ideas on paper for the a few research universities to consider. Need a little help? Want some contact names? Which genetics department do you want to start with? How about the genetics people at Yale, or Johns Hopkins or Oxford, or Columbia? I still have a few contacts in those places... Come on guy, I dare you...LOL!
 
Check the Beleza study. Or, are you just ignoring things that are not comfortable?
 
I repeat, the mtdna L in Portugal is substantially of recent sub-Saharan African origin from the slave trade.

Diversity of mtDNA lineages in Portugal: not a genetic edge of European variation.
Annals of Human Genetics 64 (6), 491-506.

[...]

With respect to the L sequences, it is widely accepted that they have a sub-Saharan origin, excepting some L3* lineages that, as analysis of Figure 4 suggests, might indeed have a non-African origin. The presence of L sequences in North African regions does not allow us to exclude the possibility that population influxes from this region, namely the above referred Berber/Arab movement, have introduced significant fraction of L sequences into Iberia. However, it seems more likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves, since the country was actively involved in the Transatlantic slave trade. Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterized.

There were more African slaves in Portugal than in any other European country: in 1550, Lisbon boasted 10000 resident slaves in a population of 100000, and Portugal as a whole probably had over 40000 (Thomas, 1998). In the mid-sixteenth century the birth of slaves' children was stimulated in Portugal for internal trade purposes. Inter-breeding between autochthonous individuals and African slaves certainly occurred and the predominant mating must have been between slave African females and autochthonous males, due to social pressures and also for legal reasons: offspring of slave females would be slaves, whereas offspring of slave males would not. Therefore, breeding between slave African males and white females, besides being socially repressed, would not bring any economic profit.

You can keep repeating whatever you want, it doesn't make it accurate. You are not getting anywhere. Come on, let's contact the research universities about all this... LOL!
 
You still don't understand : Haplogroups have nothing to do with Admixture. This is a post by Maciamo that explains it perfectly :

Attention ! MtDNA does not equal autosomal DNA !

Before starting this discussion, I would like to explain why the percentage of haplogroups does not necessarily equal the percentage of admixture from the region of origin of that particular haplogroup. For example, 2% of mtDNA L in Iberia does not mean 2% of African admixture.

Imagine that an Black African woman was brought to Europe 2000 years ago. She has children with a European. All her children belong, like her, to hg L. However she is 100% African, but her children are only 50%. Her children all marry white Europeans. Her sons' children won't have any African mtDNA, but about 25% of African autosomal DNA. Her daughters' children will be mtDNA L, and have 25% of African DNA. After 10 generations (about 300 years), if any of her descendant still carries her mtDNA line, they might not have any African autosomal DNA left, but mtDNA will still be there. Those hg L people might be pure Europeans with an African mitochondrial haplogroup. At most they will have 1% of African DNA.

I am not aware of any direct settlement of Black Africans in Iberia. The amount of Black African Y-DNA is negligible like everywhere in Europe. Therefore, all the haplogroup L found in Iberia must be of Maghreban origin. This means that when L reached Iberia, its carriers already had an admixture of European, Berber and Black African DNA. Although 98% of Maghreban Y-DNA is North African (E-M81), up to 90% of their mtDNA lines are European (minimum 50% in the most Africanised tribes in southern Morocco). In other words, when women carrying hg L entered Iberia, their autosomal DNA was mostly European and Berber (or native North African), with only a small amount of sub-Saharan DNA. If that amount was 10%, then it would be more correct to say that each % of hg L in Iberia only represents 0.1% of sub-Saharan African autosomal DNA. Even so, it is very theoretical and it could be less if L was already diluted when it reached the part of the Maghreb which provided the migrants to Iberia.
 
I've just contacted a population geneticist at Cornell who I've known over the years to take a look at the comments about DNA on this thread. I've asked him to give his opinion. Stay tuned... :innocent:
 
The most recent scientific studies have also confirmed that Portugal has substantial sub-Saharan mtdna.


In Iberia the mean frequency reaches 3.83% and the frequency is higher in Portugal (5.83%) than in Spain (1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia (3.26%) and northern Portugal (3.21%), through the center (5.02%) and to the south of Portugal (11.38%).[21] Relatively high frequencies of 7.40% and 8.30% was also reported respectively in South Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and in the present population of Priego de Cordoba by Casas et al. 2006[22]. Significant frequencies were also found in the Autonomous regions of Portugal, with L haplogroups constituting about 13% of the lineages in Madeira and 3.4 % in the Azores. In the spanish archipelago of Canary Islands, frequencies have been reported at 6.6%.[23]


http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4707358/African-female-heritage-in-Iberia.html

African female heritage in Iberia: a reassessment of mtDNA lineage distribution in present times.

Publication: Human Biology
Publication Date: 01-APR-05

[...]

Sub-Saharan African Influence. The mean frequency for the sequences belonging to superhaplogroup L, typical for sub-Saharan populations, reaches 3.83% ([+ or -]0.59%) in Iberia, representing 40 sequences in the total sample of 1,045 individuals. The frequency is clearly higher (Figure 1) in Portugal (32 sequences in 549 individuals; 5.83%) than in Spain (8 out of 496; 1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia and northern Portugal (3.26% and 3.21%, respectively--a value similar to the one found in the rest of Spain) through the center (5.02%) and to the south (11.38%). The overall geographic Iberian heterogeneity is highly significant (p = 0.0003 in the chi-square for the 2 X 9 contingency table), as is the heterogeneity for the four western populations (p = 0.0110). This pattern is also consistent with historical reports referring to a predominant introduction of slaves in southern Portugal (Lahon 1999).
 
The most recent scientific studies have also confirmed that Portugal has substantial sub-Saharan mtdna.
In Iberia the mean frequency reaches 3.83% and the frequency is higher in Portugal (5.83%) than in Spain (1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia (3.26%) and northern Portugal (3.21%), through the center (5.02%) and to the south of Portugal (11.38%).[21] Relatively high frequencies of 7.40% and 8.30% was also reported respectively in South Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and in the present population of Priego de Cordoba by Casas et al. 2006[22]. Significant frequencies were also found in the Autonomous regions of Portugal, with L haplogroups constituting about 13% of the lineages in Madeira and 3.4 % in the Azores. In the spanish archipelago of Canary Islands, frequencies have been reported at 6.6%.[23]
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4707358/African-female-heritage-in-Iberia.html
African female heritage in Iberia: a reassessment of mtDNA lineage distribution in present times.
Publication: Human Biology
Publication Date: 01-APR-05
[...]
Sub-Saharan African Influence. The mean frequency for the sequences belonging to superhaplogroup L, typical for sub-Saharan populations, reaches 3.83% ([+ or -]0.59%) in Iberia, representing 40 sequences in the total sample of 1,045 individuals. The frequency is clearly higher (Figure 1) in Portugal (32 sequences in 549 individuals; 5.83%) than in Spain (8 out of 496; 1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia and northern Portugal (3.26% and 3.21%, respectively--a value similar to the one found in the rest of Spain) through the center (5.02%) and to the south (11.38%). The overall geographic Iberian heterogeneity is highly significant (p = 0.0003 in the chi-square for the 2 X 9 contingency table), as is the heterogeneity for the four western populations (p = 0.0110). This pattern is also consistent with historical reports referring to a predominant introduction of slaves in southern Portugal (Lahon 1999).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685727
Am J Phys Anthropol. 2006 Dec;131(4):539-51.
Human mitochondrial DNA diversity in an archaeological site in al-Andalus: genetic impact of migrations from North Africa in medieval Spain.
Casas MJ, Hagelberg E, Fregel R, Larruga JM, González AM.
Centre for Ecological and Evolutionary Synthesis, Department of Biology, University of Oslo, Blindern, 0316 Oslo, Norway. [email protected]
Mitochondrial DNA sequences and restriction fragment polymorphisms were retrieved from three Islamic 12th-13th century samples of 71 bones and teeth (with >85% efficiency) from Madinat Baguh (today called Priego de Cordoba, Spain). Compared with 108 saliva samples from the present population of the same area, the medieval samples show a higher proportion of sub-Saharan African lineages that can only partially be attributed to the historic Muslim occupation. In fact, the unique sharing of transition 16175, in L1b lineages, with Europeans, instead of Africans, suggests a more ancient arrival to Europe from Africa. The present day Priego sample is more similar to the current south Iberian population than to the medieval sample from the same area. The increased gene flow in modern times could be the main cause of this difference. 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Which research university do you want to present your "arguments" to first?
 
The most recent scientific studies have also confirmed that Portugal has substantial sub-Saharan mtdna.
In Iberia the mean frequency reaches 3.83% and the frequency is higher in Portugal (5.83%) than in Spain (1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia (3.26%) and northern Portugal (3.21%), through the center (5.02%) and to the south of Portugal (11.38%).[21] Relatively high frequencies of 7.40% and 8.30% was also reported respectively in South Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and in the present population of Priego de Cordoba by Casas et al. 2006[22]. Significant frequencies were also found in the Autonomous regions of Portugal, with L haplogroups constituting about 13% of the lineages in Madeira and 3.4 % in the Azores. In the spanish archipelago of Canary Islands, frequencies have been reported at 6.6%.[23]
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4707358/African-female-heritage-in-Iberia.html
African female heritage in Iberia: a reassessment of mtDNA lineage distribution in present times.
Publication: Human Biology
Publication Date: 01-APR-05
[...]
Sub-Saharan African Influence. The mean frequency for the sequences belonging to superhaplogroup L, typical for sub-Saharan populations, reaches 3.83% ([+ or -]0.59%) in Iberia, representing 40 sequences in the total sample of 1,045 individuals. The frequency is clearly higher (Figure 1) in Portugal (32 sequences in 549 individuals; 5.83%) than in Spain (8 out of 496; 1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia and northern Portugal (3.26% and 3.21%, respectively--a value similar to the one found in the rest of Spain) through the center (5.02%) and to the south (11.38%). The overall geographic Iberian heterogeneity is highly significant (p = 0.0003 in the chi-square for the 2 X 9 contingency table), as is the heterogeneity for the four western populations (p = 0.0110). This pattern is also consistent with historical reports referring to a predominant introduction of slaves in southern Portugal (Lahon 1999).

Read what Maciamo wrote and read what population geneticists say about admixture and DNA. You have now become totally boring...
 
Woden you are going to get BANNED. Stop repeating the same thing over and over. Read other people's posts.
 
Woden, which research university shall we start with? Here are some choices:

Harvard

Chicago

Cambridge

Columbia

Johns Hopkins

Georgetown

Northwestern

Columbia

Cornell

Pick one, any one...
 
The most recent scientific studies have also confirmed that Portugal has substantial sub-Saharan mtdna.
In Iberia the mean frequency reaches 3.83% and the frequency is higher in Portugal (5.83%) than in Spain (1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia (3.26%) and northern Portugal (3.21%), through the center (5.02%) and to the south of Portugal (11.38%).[21] Relatively high frequencies of 7.40% and 8.30% was also reported respectively in South Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and in the present population of Priego de Cordoba by Casas et al. 2006[22]. Significant frequencies were also found in the Autonomous regions of Portugal, with L haplogroups constituting about 13% of the lineages in Madeira and 3.4 % in the Azores. In the spanish archipelago of Canary Islands, frequencies have been reported at 6.6%.[23]
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4707358/African-female-heritage-in-Iberia.html
African female heritage in Iberia: a reassessment of mtDNA lineage distribution in present times.
Publication: Human Biology
Publication Date: 01-APR-05
[...]
Sub-Saharan African Influence. The mean frequency for the sequences belonging to superhaplogroup L, typical for sub-Saharan populations, reaches 3.83% ([+ or -]0.59%) in Iberia, representing 40 sequences in the total sample of 1,045 individuals. The frequency is clearly higher (Figure 1) in Portugal (32 sequences in 549 individuals; 5.83%) than in Spain (8 out of 496; 1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia and northern Portugal (3.26% and 3.21%, respectively--a value similar to the one found in the rest of Spain) through the center (5.02%) and to the south (11.38%). The overall geographic Iberian heterogeneity is highly significant (p = 0.0003 in the chi-square for the 2 X 9 contingency table), as is the heterogeneity for the four western populations (p = 0.0110). This pattern is also consistent with historical reports referring to a predominant introduction of slaves in southern Portugal (Lahon 1999).

Which research university do you want to start with, Woden? Come on, get your material together. Let's get the cutting edge geneticists involved.
 
The most recent scientific studies have also confirmed that Portugal has substantial sub-Saharan mtdna.
In Iberia the mean frequency reaches 3.83% and the frequency is higher in Portugal (5.83%) than in Spain (1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia (3.26%) and northern Portugal (3.21%), through the center (5.02%) and to the south of Portugal (11.38%).[21] Relatively high frequencies of 7.40% and 8.30% was also reported respectively in South Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and in the present population of Priego de Cordoba by Casas et al. 2006[22]. Significant frequencies were also found in the Autonomous regions of Portugal, with L haplogroups constituting about 13% of the lineages in Madeira and 3.4 % in the Azores. In the spanish archipelago of Canary Islands, frequencies have been reported at 6.6%.[23]
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4707358/African-female-heritage-in-Iberia.html
African female heritage in Iberia: a reassessment of mtDNA lineage distribution in present times.
Publication: Human Biology
Publication Date: 01-APR-05
[...]
Sub-Saharan African Influence. The mean frequency for the sequences belonging to superhaplogroup L, typical for sub-Saharan populations, reaches 3.83% ([+ or -]0.59%) in Iberia, representing 40 sequences in the total sample of 1,045 individuals. The frequency is clearly higher (Figure 1) in Portugal (32 sequences in 549 individuals; 5.83%) than in Spain (8 out of 496; 1.61%) and without parallel in the rest of Europe. Furthermore, in western Iberia, increasing frequencies are observed for Galicia and northern Portugal (3.26% and 3.21%, respectively--a value similar to the one found in the rest of Spain) through the center (5.02%) and to the south (11.38%). The overall geographic Iberian heterogeneity is highly significant (p = 0.0003 in the chi-square for the 2 X 9 contingency table), as is the heterogeneity for the four western populations (p = 0.0110). This pattern is also consistent with historical reports referring to a predominant introduction of slaves in southern Portugal (Lahon 1999).

Pick a research university, Woden. Need some help?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 91266 times.

Back
Top