Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 263

Thread: With what ancient ethnicity do you most identify, and what has DNA told you ?

  1. #151
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California





    Quote Originally Posted by L.D.Brousse View Post
    Well sparky here are other names in my blood Schwarz Kuntz Thrash Snodgrass Gist Albin Coats Allen Butler Ryden cornu allenet

    Snodgrass is my maternal Great Grandmothers name it is Celtic for smooth grass and Gist is my paternal Great Grandmothers name it is Welsh The Schwarz's are the newest they came in the 1870s rest have been here a long long time. Allen was my 5th Great Grandmothers maiden name she descended from a Caviler. I have not researched back on the other names yet like I have my Y line
    Well, let's see... Relying on Maciamo's surname distribution topic heavily, I find...

    Schwarz: A very common German name, I assume you know where in Germany (Austria? Somewhere else?) they came from?

    Kuntz: Typically Palatine. If they didn't come with the Schwarzes but instead came during the Colonial period, I would definitely suspect Palatine origins.

    Thrash: Unclear. Could be a variant of English "Thrush" or an Anglicized form of Palatine German "Dresch."

    Snodgrass: Actually Middle English, not "Celtic," but you're right that it means "smooth grass." Typically Scottish, from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, or Lanarkshire.

    Gist: Not Welsh. Probably from Old English "giest," meaning "guest," or someone who wasn't from around there. Clearly most common in Devon, which was a county that was represented a lot among the English colonists, especially the Cavaliers.

    Albin: Could be from lots of places in Western Europe, it's a patronymic.

    Coats: More commonly "Coates," it's English, most common around Yorkshire. It means "cottager."

    Allen: Again a patronymic, but at least this one we can mostly narrow down to "probably British." Cavaliers tended to come from Southern England.

    Butler: Obviously, it's from English, "butler." Could be from anywhere in Britain, although it's particularly uncommon in Wales and Cornwall.

    Ryden: This one is curious, because it has possible Scandinavian origins, from "ryd," meaning "woodland clearing." Almost certainly from Lancashire if that side of your family is from Britain.

    Cornu: This is the one that caught my eye and made me decide to do this analysis for you. It's a really interesting surname. It's definitely more common in France than in Britain, so you may want to investigate to see if this could be another Huguenot family. The root seems to be "corn" for "horn," and my only guess is that it might refer to the Breton region of Cornouaille, although the name peaks in frequency well East of there, at the border with Belgium. Maybe a Belgian can comment. The only possibility I see for a British origin is if it's a variant of "Curno," a common Cornish name meaning "Cornwall."

    Allenet: You probably don't need me to tell you that this one is French. Uncommon everywhere, but occurs occasionally around Saintonge. Presumably Huguenot.

  2. #152
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Created Album picturesOverdrive1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    L.D.Brousse's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-03-12
    Posts
    141
    Points
    2,304
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,304, Level: 13
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 146
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1a1b5aSry2627

    Ethnic group
    French Celtic German
    Country: USA - Indiana



    The Cornu's are from Taillebourg and the Allenet's are from the Saintongs area These 2 names are part of my Huguenot roots

    I'm just a typical American who's roots have been here a good while

  3. #153
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by L.D.Brousse View Post
    The Cornu's are from Taillebourg and the Allenet's are from the Saintongs area
    As expected for the Allenets, although it's interesting, there aren't really many Cornus at all in Saintonge anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by L.D.Brousse View Post
    I'm just a typical American who's roots have been here a good while
    I think you've got some interesting patterns in your family history... More Huguenot ancestry that is typical, more Cavalier ancestry than is typical, less Puritan and Quaker ancestry than is typical... etc.

    There are a lot of interesting regional variations in colonial American settlement, which affects and differentiates colonial descendants to this day. (And I have argued even played a major part in conflicts like the Civil War.)

  4. #154
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Created Album picturesOverdrive1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    L.D.Brousse's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-03-12
    Posts
    141
    Points
    2,304
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,304, Level: 13
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 146
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1a1b5aSry2627

    Ethnic group
    French Celtic German
    Country: USA - Indiana



    I had kin on both sides in the civil war My Y line came from Lincoln County TN. my third Great Grandfather fought with the 44th TN INF. they were at Shiloh. I have no clue if any of them were Quakers All Protestants except for the Schwarz's they are Catholic. My maternal Grandmother was a Butler the family still owns land since the 1860s on the trail of tears in Salem KY. my Great Aunt lives on it part of the original trail crosses our land with a few Indian burials on it. By the way Sparky Cavilers were just soldiers right that came early to protect the the settlements? Sorry the Allen is Alen. The French surnames in my line can be seen on the Marriage certificate I posted. I would think most of these people are R1b I need to get my Grandfather schwarz tested

  5. #155
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Well, let's see... Relying on Maciamo's surname distribution topic heavily, I find...

    Schwarz: A very common German name, I assume you know where in Germany (Austria? Somewhere else?) they came from?

    Kuntz: Typically Palatine. If they didn't come with the Schwarzes but instead came during the Colonial period, I would definitely suspect Palatine origins.

    Thrash: Unclear. Could be a variant of English "Thrush" or an Anglicized form of Palatine German "Dresch."

    Snodgrass: Actually Middle English, not "Celtic," but you're right that it means "smooth grass." Typically Scottish, from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, or Lanarkshire.

    Gist: Not Welsh. Probably from Old English "giest," meaning "guest," or someone who wasn't from around there. Clearly most common in Devon, which was a county that was represented a lot among the English colonists, especially the Cavaliers.

    Albin: Could be from lots of places in Western Europe, it's a patronymic.

    Coats: More commonly "Coates," it's English, most common around Yorkshire. It means "cottager."

    Allen: Again a patronymic, but at least this one we can mostly narrow down to "probably British." Cavaliers tended to come from Southern England.

    Butler: Obviously, it's from English, "butler." Could be from anywhere in Britain, although it's particularly uncommon in Wales and Cornwall.

    Ryden: This one is curious, because it has possible Scandinavian origins, from "ryd," meaning "woodland clearing." Almost certainly from Lancashire if that side of your family is from Britain.

    Cornu: This is the one that caught my eye and made me decide to do this analysis for you. It's a really interesting surname. It's definitely more common in France than in Britain, so you may want to investigate to see if this could be another Huguenot family. The root seems to be "corn" for "horn," and my only guess is that it might refer to the Breton region of Cornouaille, although the name peaks in frequency well East of there, at the border with Belgium. Maybe a Belgian can comment. The only possibility I see for a British origin is if it's a variant of "Curno," a common Cornish name meaning "Cornwall."

    Allenet: You probably don't need me to tell you that this one is French. Uncommon everywhere, but occurs occasionally around Saintonge. Presumably Huguenot.
    I have a relative who's name is Dessmann from Friuli area ( search lineage and always in friuli for 300 years plus ) , what germanioc area would this name come from and does mann at the end mean similar to son of or something else

  6. #156
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by L.D.Brousse View Post
    I had kin on both sides in the civil war My Y line came from Lincoln County TN. my third Great Grandfather fought with the 44th TN INF. they were at Shiloh.
    OK, it's cool that you know so much, a lot of people in the US have no idea about their Civil War heritage. I also had ancestors on both sides, including a Confederate shot at Crampton's Gap, a Unionist shot at Antietam, and another Unionist shot (and captured) at Chickamauga.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.D.Brousse View Post
    I have no clue if any of them were Quakers All Protestants except for the Schwarz's they are Catholic.
    Quakers are usually pretty identifiable in genealogy. They also tended to avoid wars at all costs... I know that an able-bodied Quaker I descend from who lived at the time intentionally did not serve.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.D.Brousse View Post
    By the way Sparky Cavilers were just soldiers right that came early to protect the the settlements?
    Not exactly, they were Anglican Royalists originally, many of whom left England during the mid 1600s, when the Puritans gained influence, and when Oliver Cromwell was in power. They tended to be rather conservative and brought many servants, so often when we speak of "Cavalier migrations," we're speaking of both them, and their servants. (They also brought slaves, but slaves are obviously never referred to as "Cavaliers"). They mostly came to Virginia to earn money, along with the intention of escaping the Puritans. Their descendants largely dispersed westward and southward from Virginia over time, and tended to adopt the Baptist religion around the time of the Revolution, when Anglicanism became unpopular.

  7. #157
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I have a relative who's name is Dessmann from Friuli area ( search lineage and always in friuli for 300 years plus ) , what germanioc area would this name come from and does mann at the end mean similar to son of or something else
    I can't find anything on "Dessmann" offhand, it is an interesting surname. It looks like Americans with that surname are mainly of Italian origin rather than German origin, maybe relatives of your relative.

  8. #158
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Created Album picturesOverdrive1000 Experience Points1 year registered
    L.D.Brousse's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-03-12
    Posts
    141
    Points
    2,304
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,304, Level: 13
    Level completed: 52%, Points required for next Level: 146
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a2a1a1b5aSry2627

    Ethnic group
    French Celtic German
    Country: USA - Indiana



    Not exactly, they were Anglican Royalists originally, many of whom left England during the mid 1600s, when the Puritans gained influence, and when Oliver Cromwell was in power. They tended to be rather conservative and brought many servants, so often when we speak of "Cavalier migrations," we're speaking of both them, and their servants. (They also brought slaves, but slaves are obviously never referred to as "Cavaliers"). They mostly came to Virginia to earn money, along with the intention of escaping the Puritans. Their descendants largely dispersed westward and southward from Virginia over time, and tended to adopt the Baptist religion around the time of the Revolution, when Anglicanism became unpopular.


    That makes sense the Brousse's/ Bruce's started in Va then to NC My 5th Great Grandfather was given land in Lincoln County TN for service in the Revolution I know the Alen's also hailed from NC Both Families owned slaves. As much as I love to talk history I'm sorry for hijacking the thread

  9. #159
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    24-03-12
    Posts
    114
    Points
    2,229
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,229, Level: 13
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Marianne View Post
    Since the 2nd Byzantine Period of Crete, from 961 A.D, many Western European merchants settled in the island and later on the Venetian occupation came at 1204 and lasted for almost 500 years, so their influence was great

    Cretans still have a different dialect which includes words that are clearly not Greek, influenced by Wester European languages. There are also many Roman Catholics in the island, more than the average of Greece. So you will find many Cretans feeling a "connection" with Frankish culture. That doesn't apply to the rest of Greeks though, except for those who live at the Ionian islands, because they were also under Venetian rule for quite a while.
    This is a very old quote but:

    I am Cretan and I don't really feel a connection with "Frankish" culture (whatever that is). I feel a connection with European culture as a whole. Growing up, two of my closest friends were Finnish (don't ask...) and one of them was American. Some of my other non-close friends (still my friends) were German, British and Albanian. That was because I grew up in a sort of touristy place in Crete where a lot of western Europeans settled permanently to raise their families.

    With respect to the original article:

    I identify with both the Ancient Greeks and the Eastern Romans (a.k.a. the Byzantines). I don't know what my actual genetic make up is like. I do want to know ofc.

  10. #160
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    24-03-12
    Posts
    114
    Points
    2,229
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,229, Level: 13
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: UK - England



    Dunno why I wrote article. I meant post. FML.

  11. #161
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class25000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    4,404
    Points
    28,078
    Level
    51
    Points: 28,078, Level: 51
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 572
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Boss View Post
    This is a very old quote but:

    I am Cretan and I don't really feel a connection with "Frankish" culture (whatever that is). I feel a connection with European culture as a whole. Growing up, two of my closest friends were Finnish (don't ask...) and one of them was American. Some of my other non-close friends (still my friends) were German, British and Albanian. That was because I grew up in a sort of touristy place in Crete where a lot of western Europeans settled permanently to raise their families.
    That's a great example why in future Europe will be totally unified as one Nation/Union, with well mixed community. It's just a matter of time. You can scream, you can kick but you can't fight the nature. Well, actually you can exercise your free will and fight the nature, but you will loose regardless.
    The nature I'm talking about is undeniable will of free people to mingle, mix and live wherever they want. With growing wealth of Europeans, with vanishing borders, with cooperative and friendly spirit among nations, the process will accelerate even further.

    Welcome to Eupedia Boss.

    PS. Now we have Maciamo boss, and the Boss.

  12. #162
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    24-03-12
    Posts
    114
    Points
    2,229
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,229, Level: 13
    Level completed: 27%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    That's a great example why in future Europe will be totally unified as one Nation/Union, with well mixed community. It's just a matter of time. You can scream, you can kick but you can't fight the nature. Well, actually you can exercise your free will and fight the nature, but you will loose regardless.
    The nature I'm talking about is undeniable will of free people to mingle, mix and live wherever they want. With growing wealth of Europeans, with vanishing borders, with cooperative and friendly spirit among nations, the process will accelerate even further.

    Welcome to Eupedia Boss.

    PS. Now we have Maciamo boss, and the Boss.
    Thank you for the welcome (I wasn't greeted well by the admins as my thread on Nordicism was erased).

    Also, I am not entirely certain if by "you" you mean myself. I am in favour of vanishing borders and not just on a European level.

    I don't think it'll be some kind of a natural event though. It can very well be reversed (see early 20th century protectionism).

  13. #163
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points
    Jomid59's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-05-12
    Location
    California
    Posts
    10

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 (M253)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H23

    Ethnic group
    Semi-nomadic hunting gatherer
    Country: UK - England



    Hello everyone, my first post.

    I readily identify with being a neolithic hunter\gatherer.
    I work well with wood, badly with metal, although I do find stonework laborious.
    I enjoy the "energy" of the hunt and find gardening boring, but am happy to pick fruit from trees and bushes.
    Like to be on the move, having more of an affinity for the sea rather than land.

    Seems to be supported by my Y-DNA hg I1 (67 marker test + deep clade, terminal snp M253). Time and geographical emergence estimates for this group have changed a bit over the last few years, currently I am leaning towards the Doggerland as a place of emergence. Romantic possibly, but supports my being a boat oriented hunter gatherer.

    Full mitochondrial sequence is H23. Behar et al puts emergence at 50BC geographically unknown. Most likely a female slave to a Roman family. (JK).

    Awaiting FamilyFinder autosomal test results. If Gedmatch admixture H\G V farmer is not overwhelmingly Hunter Gather I will be most upset. :)

  14. #164
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by Jomid59 View Post
    I readily identify with being a neolithic hunter\gatherer.
    I didn't know you guys were still around, glad we got you DNA tested!

    Is there any actual tradition of being "on the move" in your family? Like perhaps traveller background?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jomid59 View Post
    Seems to be supported by my Y-DNA hg I1 (67 marker test + deep clade, terminal snp M253). Time and geographical emergence estimates for this group have changed a bit over the last few years, currently I am leaning towards the Doggerland as a place of emergence.
    Any particular rationale? Doggerland is within range for, say, I2a1b2, but it seems too far west for I1, which has some of its older branches closer to Poland (although the whole thing seems to peak in diversity around Schleswig-Holstein).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jomid59 View Post
    Awaiting FamilyFinder autosomal test results. If Gedmatch admixture H\G V farmer is not overwhelmingly Hunter Gather I will be most upset. :)
    Don't worry, I'm sure some Cro-Magnons will be happy to know about the interest you've taken in their culture, regardless.

  15. #165
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points
    Jomid59's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-05-12
    Location
    California
    Posts
    10

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1 (M253)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H23

    Ethnic group
    Semi-nomadic hunting gatherer
    Country: UK - England



    Hi Sparkey,

    "On the move"
    Paternal lineage - Scottish carpenter journeymen, 3 generations. Father in Merchant Navy and heavy goods vehicle driver.
    Maternal Lineage - family rumours of gypsy heritage, some photos may support that, but my DNA work so far does not show it. However, fathers\husbands of maternal line were in trades that moved; journeyman baker, oilman, brush-maker (tramps).
    Almost all of my mother's 6 brothers were in the navy, both merchant and royal.

    Doggerland:
    I wish we had more aDNA. If one looks at a geographic map of current M253, I see a concentric distribution with Doggerland at it's centre, bearing in mind if this were a boating culture, as seems likely with current evidence and it having been a wetland environment, then travel eastwards into the baltic would have been relatively safer than into the upper north sea, also maybe less populated in eastern scandanavia than elsewhere.

    Cro-magnon
    Thanks , I am light olive skinned and tan (not burn) very quickly (not that common for Englishmen);
    "suggesting Cro-Magnons could have been medium brown to tan-skinned"
    But I suspect they would have made mince-meat out of me.

  16. #166
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    03-07-12
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    268
    Points
    3,028
    Level
    15
    Points: 3,028, Level: 15
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 11.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    My ancestors hail exclusively from Celtic and Germanic lands excluding the Finns (who were unlikely to be of the Saami sort). My Y DNA is now widely considered to represent a Germanic background (I2A2A). I do not yet know my MTDNA, but I suspect it is a common Irish one, as my maternal ancestors have been Irish for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. However, as they're Black Irish (dark haired Irish) it may be different from other populations. The Spanish Armada story is widely discreditted, but the black Irish subset of Ireland seems quite distinct from the rest of the population.

    I have self-identified as Celto-Germanic on my census form.

  17. #167
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    My Y DNA is now widely considered to represent a Germanic background (I2A2A).
    I2a2a (ISOGG terminology) is typically, but not wholly, Germanic in the context of the British Isles, especially most of the Cont branches. But I recall you being either Roots or Isles-E. Roots probably has been introduced to the British Isles in different ways, and the Isles branches could be quite ancient there... almost surely pre-Anglo-Saxon for most of it, and maybe even pre-Celtic in the case of some.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    I have self-identified as Celto-Germanic on my census form.
    US census "ancestry" designation fascinates me. Personally, even though "Celto-Germanic" would be fairly accurate to describe my ancestry as well, it probably would have been counted as "996: Uncodeable entry". (Although it's funny that they do count "Aryan"--apparently there were 3,308 Aryans roming the US as of 2000.) As I've explained before, my favored census designation is something like: Primary: American, Secondary: Welsh. Although still overly broad, it's nonetheless more specific than "Celto-Germanic," and would have actually gotten counted.

  18. #168
    Junior Member Achievements:
    31 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    04-07-12
    Location
    New Rochelle,NY
    Posts
    5


    Ethnic group
    Ukrainian Jew
    Country: United States



    The fair hair and eyes of many Russians are also due to mixture with Finno-Ugrian peoples,
    Finnic, not Ob-Ugrian, . The Ob Ugrians and Samoeydic people are racially mongoloid .
    Myself, I'm an American of Russian/Ukrainian Jewish descent , and my maternal grandmother, the only
    one of my grandparents I knew, was a native of the Ukrainian city of Chernivtsi , which was them part of the
    Austro-Hungarian empire ,later a part of Romania, and later the Ukraine . She was born in the late 19th century, spoke Yiddish and German , and could get by in Ukrainian and Romanian . This region is caled Bukovina , and the people are a mix of Jews, Rssians,Ukrainians and Romanians .
    I don't know exactly where in the Russo/Ukrainian world my paternal grandarents came from.
    Chernivtsi is in the south-western Ukraine , near the Romanian border , and was called Czernowitz in German .
    I don't look Semitic in the least and could easily pass for any Russian or Ukrainian, and have brown hair and green eyes . I have a wide ,round face and prominent cheekbones, and some people think I have a somewhat Asian appearance , with rather sllanted eyes . I could very possibly have some Turkic blood in me , and have long been interested in Turkic people. and have some familiarity with Turkish and Turkic languages .

  19. #169
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    03-07-12
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    268
    Points
    3,028
    Level
    15
    Points: 3,028, Level: 15
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 11.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    I2a2a (ISOGG terminology) is typically, but not wholly, Germanic in the context of the British Isles, especially most of the Cont branches. But I recall you being either Roots or Isles-E. Roots probably has been introduced to the British Isles in different ways, and the Isles branches could be quite ancient there... almost surely pre-Anglo-Saxon for most of it, and maybe even pre-Celtic in the case of some.
    Yes, if it turns out I am I2a2a-Isles it is likely that my paternal ancestry is Stonehengian (to use a silly term for pre-Celtic) if the conjectures of a native-Britain are proven right. Meanwhile, if I am roots, isn't it likely it's non-British? If I recall, I2A2A developed sometime around the LGM, with refugee populations in non-glaciated areas.

    Also: As with you, I have tried to use surnames and other sources to give me a sense of what may have come to pass. My last name is Rowe and this surname is widely speculated to be of Norman extraction, which would actually mesh very well with the distribution of I2A2A historically. It's found in Scandinavia, in Germany, in Northwestern France, and in England.

    Another possible root, however, would be that it is in fact native to Cornwall. That is where my immediate English paternal ancestors came from (as well as neighbouring Devon). However, in line with the first origin, one of the earliest Rowes on record was given a fief in Devon.

    US census "ancestry" designation fascinates me. Personally, even though "Celto-Germanic" would be fairly accurate to describe my ancestry as well, it probably would have been counted as "996: Uncodeable entry". (Although it's funny that they do count "Aryan"--apparently there were 3,308 Aryans roming the US as of 2000.) As I've explained before, my favored census designation is something like: Primary: American, Secondary: Welsh. Although still overly broad, it's nonetheless more specific than "Celto-Germanic," and would have actually gotten counted.
    I honestly had no idea they wouldn't simply write down what one gave them as a minority population, unless it was an obvious spelling error or joke (e.g. Martian). If it was fruitless, well, so be it: It's not that big of a loss. Although amusingly, my mother actually -worked- for the census this last go around...Also, it was a bit of a purposeful jab at the generic "Caucasian" that the US Government still uses. I've not had an ancestor that I know of in the Caucasus for upwards of 30,000 years, if ever. I am certainly a Caucasoid (in a broad group of races), but besides that it has always urked me to label myself as something which isn't accurate for an ethnic classification.

  20. #170
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Not wanting to pay big money to do my admixture and not having a clue on how to use or which to use of the "K" calculators or weac, I have been relying on certain "professional" people in advising me on my HG
    Since I am still getting SNP tests done ( now paid by others) , I was given basically this scenario , which changes slightly every month.

    My line began, between North Ossettia and azerbajan, mostly likely from medes people, then arrived on the baltic sea in Ingrian lands, then in southern sweden or gotland and finally to the eastern alps. No dates are given

    I was told 24% NE european, 11% celto-germanic and 5% North baltic
    I presume North baltic refers to sweden and finland and south baltic to the south shores of the baltic sea.

    some questions like, where is my caucasus %? is a mystery.

    I have no issue at all on my HG type, I just want to know how accurate these figures are.

    That is my only concern

  21. #171
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    Yes, if it turns out I am I2a2a-Isles it is likely that my paternal ancestry is Stonehengian (to use a silly term for pre-Celtic) if the conjectures of a native-Britain are proven right. Meanwhile, if I am roots, isn't it likely it's non-British? If I recall, I2A2A developed sometime around the LGM, with refugee populations in non-glaciated areas.
    Well, every patriline is non-British if you go back far enough. I haven't really studied Roots closely, but I assume that it came to Britain in multiple migrations. I'm not confident with which was the most important.

    It's not clear where I2a2a was during the LGM, but it is likely that its population shifted northward. See the black dots here. (Rough estimates... I'm thinking of moving the I2a2a-Isles dots down a bit soon based on new data; I still need to figure that out.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    Also: As with you, I have tried to use surnames and other sources to give me a sense of what may have come to pass. My last name is Rowe and this surname is widely speculated to be of Norman extraction, which would actually mesh very well with the distribution of I2A2A historically. It's found in Scandinavia, in Germany, in Northwestern France, and in England.
    It is not common in France, and the German name probably has a different derivation than the British names (possibly from Rowy, Pomerania?). The British derivations I'm more familiar with, because it's a common name in Cornwall, which is an area of focus for me. There seems to be two common derivations. The Yorkshire/Lancashire derivation is probably the first Ancestry.com gives, a "topographic name for someone who lived by a hedgerow or in a row of houses built next to one another, from Middle English row (northern Middle English raw, from Old English raw)." The second is as a patronymic variation of Roul, Rollo, Rolf, Ralph, Rowland, etc. Most importantly, this includes the Cornish for Ralph (most Cornish surnames are patronymic... Cornish naming patterns are quite different from English naming patterns, they're closer to Welsh naming patterns).

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    Another possible root, however, would be that it is in fact native to Cornwall. That is where my immediate English paternal ancestors came from (as well as neighbouring Devon). However, in line with the first origin, one of the earliest Rowes on record was given a fief in Devon.
    ...hence, I suspect your surname is just a patronymic for the Cornish for "Ralph." My best guess, given just your surname, is that you probably had some Cornish-speaking ancestor name Rowe, whose son took that as his surname.

    Where in Cornwall, by the way? I can help a lot with Cornish genealogy.

  22. #172
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    03-07-12
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    268
    Points
    3,028
    Level
    15
    Points: 3,028, Level: 15
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 11.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Well, every patriline is non-British if you go back far enough. I haven't really studied Roots closely, but I assume that it came to Britain in multiple migrations. I'm not confident with which was the most important.
    It would make sense, as either Celtic or Germanic migrations occured at multiple times in the history of Britain. Question, though: Do you have any good resources on the Roots sub-clade? I have literally only been able to find passing references to the name, rather than any detailed information. I'd be most obliged.

    It's not clear where I2a2a was during the LGM, but it is likely that its population shifted northward. See the black dots here. (Rough estimates... I'm thinking of moving the I2a2a-Isles dots down a bit soon based on new data; I still need to figure that out.)
    Fantastic map. I agree, though, that the Isles dots could be pushed down a bit if this is supposed to represent refugia. Only the furthest South of Britain and Ireland was ice-free during the LGM, if I recall properly.

    It is not common in France, and the German name probably has a different derivation than the British names (possibly from Rowy, Pomerania?). The British derivations I'm more familiar with, because it's a common name in Cornwall, which is an area of focus for me. There seems to be two common derivations. The Yorkshire/Lancashire derivation is probably the first Ancestry.com gives, a "topographic name for someone who lived by a hedgerow or in a row of houses built next to one another, from Middle English row (northern Middle English raw, from Old English raw)." The second is as a patronymic variation of Roul, Rollo, Rolf, Ralph, Rowland, etc. Most importantly, this includes the Cornish for Ralph (most Cornish surnames are patronymic... Cornish naming patterns are quite different from English naming patterns, they're closer to Welsh naming patterns).

    I'm afraid you misunderstood me a bit. I had meant that I2a2a is in these other countries which, in association with one derivation of Rowe, makes sense. If Rowe is Norman, it makes sense that Rowe should be an I2a2a family. Not that the name remains in Germany, France, et cetera, which is highly unlikely in a direct connection. Very sorry for the confusion.

    As for the name (and it is great that you know so much about Rowe! Thanks!) and its Cornish origins: That is one highly favoured by certain scholars of the name. I myself am on the fence about whether or not it is really Cornish historically, rather than Cornish by adoption (hundreds of years ago!). There is no doubt the Rowes are in Cornwall very early, but depending on the history of how they came to be in Cornwall, it could be. Your references to the potential patronymic names, for instance, are all names of non-Cornish derivation.

    As for hedgerow, that's quite possibly one, too. I have never been able to get a definitive link to anything with that, though, and as it comes from Yorkshire and Lancastershire, it may represent a separate name from my branch (which is firmly Cornish). Rowe might be two names in actuality. It's hard to tell.

    It also makes sense, as you said, that Cornish and Welsh naming conventions should be similar. Cornish and Welsh culture is, after all, based on a strong backing of the Britons that were pushed to the fringes of England with the coming of the Anglo-Saxons. The Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar too, aren't they? Although you Welshmen sure love your odd romanization...(I remember being in Wales and marvelling at the signage in Welsh that made absolutely no sense in its romanization).

    ...hence, I suspect your surname is just a patronymic for the Cornish for "Ralph." My best guess, given just your surname, is that you probably had some Cornish-speaking ancestor name Rowe, whose son took that as his surname.
    I think it is highly likely, yes. Although if the ancestor that some Rowes give as one of the earliest examples of Rowe in England (Edevard de Rowe) it would have been a surname already. I favour the idea that it is patronymic, though, as with you. It makes a great deal of sense.

    Where in Cornwall, by the way? I can help a lot with Cornish genealogy.
    You're the most helpful guy around, my good man. Thank you very much. I really appreciate this insight. Truly.

    James Rowe, 1804, parish of Breage, son of William and Mary Rowe. (Amusing, as I'm also James, son of William). That is the earliest my father went down to in his genealogy. However, I thought I had found someone a bit further down one time, but I cannot recall the information or where I might have.

  23. #173
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    It would make sense, as either Celtic or Germanic migrations occured at multiple times in the history of Britain. Question, though: Do you have any good resources on the Roots sub-clade? I have literally only been able to find passing references to the name, rather than any detailed information. I'd be most obliged.
    It may be the largest I2 subclade that hasn't been studied with much depth, at least, as far as I'm aware. It's widely and thinly spread, so I suppose there's a lack of interest, because it's difficult to tie it to any one historical or archaeological migration.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    Fantastic map. I agree, though, that the Isles dots could be pushed down a bit if this is supposed to represent refugia. Only the furthest South of Britain and Ireland was ice-free during the LGM, if I recall properly.
    To be clear, it's supposed to represent the situation close to the beginning of the Neolithic, rather than refugia at the LGM about 10,000 years earlier. You can imagine the ancestors of the dots on that map being farther south across the map if we extrapolate back another 10,000 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    As for the name (and it is great that you know so much about Rowe! Thanks!) and its Cornish origins: That is one highly favoured by certain scholars of the name. I myself am on the fence about whether or not it is really Cornish historically, rather than Cornish by adoption (hundreds of years ago!). There is no doubt the Rowes are in Cornwall very early, but depending on the history of how they came to be in Cornwall, it could be. Your references to the potential patronymic names, for instance, are all names of non-Cornish derivation.
    Well, true, but at the adoption of surnames, Rowe would have been a fairly common given name in Cornwall, even though it is not anciently Cornish. Truly ancient Cornish names were out of style at the adoption of surnames, and ancient Cornish names only really pop up in the Tre- surnames, which tend to come from place names that were named after even more ancient people.

    I'm not saying, though, that your Rowe name couldn't derive from something more interesting, like from the name of an ancient landed family. But you'll need to reach back pretty far to prove that... maybe using a Herald's visitation. Don't get your hopes too high, though... of the many surnames I've researched for myself and my wife in Cornwall, I've only found 2 recorded in any visitations. One of those was clearly derived from a manorial name to begin with, and the other was obviously Norman to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    It also makes sense, as you said, that Cornish and Welsh naming conventions should be similar. Cornish and Welsh culture is, after all, based on a strong backing of the Britons that were pushed to the fringes of England with the coming of the Anglo-Saxons. The Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar too, aren't they? Although you Welshmen sure love your odd romanization...(I remember being in Wales and marvelling at the signage in Welsh that made absolutely no sense in its romanization).
    Cornish and Welsh are in the same language family, the Brythonic languages. The phonology is a bit different, though... most English speakers find Cornish easier to pronounce, because it lacks the Welsh "ll" sound, amongst other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    James Rowe, 1804, parish of Breage, son of William and Mary Rowe. (Amusing, as I'm also James, son of William). That is the earliest my father went down to in his genealogy. However, I thought I had found someone a bit further down one time, but I cannot recall the information or where I might have.
    Breage, great. I have ancestors from three different places in Cornwall, one of those places being in Kerrier around the Lizard peninsula and a bit north of it. Some of those ancestors lived not too far from Breage... I think the closest I've found is Cury.

    It was quick to find a baptism record for your James, a marriage record for your William and Mary, and another family researcher (whose tree looks to have some inaccuracies--be very skeptical).

  24. #174
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    03-07-12
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    268
    Points
    3,028
    Level
    15
    Points: 3,028, Level: 15
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 22
    Overall activity: 11.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-m223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H64

    Ethnic group
    Irish, English, French, German, Swedish, and Finnish
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    It may be the largest I2 subclade that hasn't been studied with much depth, at least, as far as I'm aware. It's widely and thinly spread, so I suppose there's a lack of interest, because it's difficult to tie it to any one historical or archaeological migration.
    I suppose it really only takes a few fathers, dispersed throughout many populations, to maintain the haplogroup through succesfully siring sons, while their neighbours might have more advanced mutations down the line.

    [quote]To be clear, it's supposed to represent the situation close to the beginning of the Neolithic, rather than refugia at the LGM about 10,000 years earlier. You can imagine the ancestors of the dots on that map being farther south across the map if we extrapolate back another 10,000 years.

    That makes much more sense. Do you have any maps of the glaciers at that time? I was under the impression the ice was fairly thick and near at that point. Wasn't the Black Sea still dry?

    Well, true, but at the adoption of surnames, Rowe would have been a fairly common given name in Cornwall, even though it is not anciently Cornish. Truly ancient Cornish names were out of style at the adoption of surnames, and ancient Cornish names only really pop up in the Tre- surnames, which tend to come from place names that were named after even more ancient people.
    That is quite possible, yes. Though there was a 17th century Cornish scholar that seemed to have had a strong sense for Cornish versions of common names. He suggested Kerew would have been the Cornish name for Rowe. I forgot his name. Perhaps you know it? I'll do a search tonight.

    I'm not saying, though, that your Rowe name couldn't derive from something more interesting, like from the name of an ancient landed family. But you'll need to reach back pretty far to prove that... maybe using a Herald's visitation. Don't get your hopes too high, though... of the many surnames I've researched for myself and my wife in Cornwall, I've only found 2 recorded in any visitations. One of those was clearly derived from a manorial name to begin with, and the other was obviously Norman to begin with.

    It would probablyb e very, very, very difficult to get past the 16th century. My Cornish side were tin miners. Though we know from history that noble families can very disastrously fall from grace (as most noble families have), I highly doubt that I could find a great deal of evidence of this fall from an actual ancestor. I know, for instance, that I'm not related to Nicholas Rowe, the poet laureate of England, much to my father's chagrin.

    How might a herald's visitation work though to find something?


    Cornish and Welsh are in the same language family, the Brythonic languages. The phonology is a bit different, though... most English speakers find Cornish easier to pronounce, because it lacks the Welsh "ll" sound, amongst other things.
    Yep. I've heard that.


    Breage, great. I have ancestors from three different places in Cornwall, one of those places being in Kerrier around the Lizard peninsula and a bit north of it. Some of those ancestors lived not too far from Breage... I think the closest I've found is Cury.
    It would have been quite funny if our ancestors had spoken with one another at sometimes.

    It was quick to find a baptism record for your James, a marriage record for your William and Mary, and another family researcher (whose tree looks to have some inaccuracies--be very skeptical).
    I will give great attention tot his tonight. My father's genealogy has the marriage record listed, too. He does not, however, have the listing of William Rowe as being born in 1776, or any information on that James' parents. I'll have to check myself.

    Thanks very much for this.

  25. #175
    Great Adventurer Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdriveVeteran
    Awards:
    Arm of Law
    sparkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-02-11
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,951
    Points
    21,331
    Level
    44
    Points: 21,331, Level: 44
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 319
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c PF3881+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

    Ethnic group
    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
    Country: USA - California



    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    That makes much more sense. Do you have any maps of the glaciers at that time? I was under the impression the ice was fairly thick and near at that point. Wasn't the Black Sea still dry?
    At the LGM or in 4000 BCE? I'm actually not as familiar with the glaciation of either time period as I probably should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    That is quite possible, yes. Though there was a 17th century Cornish scholar that seemed to have had a strong sense for Cornish versions of common names. He suggested Kerew would have been the Cornish name for Rowe. I forgot his name. Perhaps you know it? I'll do a search tonight.
    Google tells me that it was William Rowe who suggested it. He translated some of the Bible into Cornish in the 17th century. I'm not sure why he would have thought "Kerew" was Cornish for "Rowe," they seem unrelated to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    It would probablyb e very, very, very difficult to get past the 16th century. My Cornish side were tin miners. Though we know from history that noble families can very disastrously fall from grace (as most noble families have), I highly doubt that I could find a great deal of evidence of this fall from an actual ancestor. I know, for instance, that I'm not related to Nicholas Rowe, the poet laureate of England, much to my father's chagrin.
    Ah, tin miners, so you've been a Cousin Jack all along. Did your ancestors come to America directly from Cornwall as a result of the collapse in the mining economy in the 1800s? There are several heritage societies in the US founded mainly by people of that extraction. The closest to New York is the Cornish Heritage Society East. I'm a member of the California Cornish Cousins myself.

    Sometimes even tin miners had interesting relations, though. One of my tin mining ancestors knew John Opie personally, before he rose to fame.

    Quote Originally Posted by JFWR View Post
    How might a herald's visitation work though to find something?
    Just look through it. Use the index. Google also lets you do a text search. I found some of my ancestors on page 289, and some of my wife's ancestors on page 576. I don't see any pages dedicated to any Rowes, however.

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Ancient Old Prussians
    By zanipolo in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 30-05-13, 19:07
  2. French Ethnicity
    By St Delcambre in forum Genetic Genealogy & Haplogroups
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 09-03-12, 05:15
  3. Matching Ancient languages with Ancient tribes
    By zanipolo in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 24-07-11, 01:19
  4. Can you identify this language?
    By deadhippo in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-06-11, 17:55
  5. Linking ethnicity and biology
    By Palop in forum Autosomal Genetics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-06-11, 00:19

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •