With what ancient ethnicity do you most identify, and what has DNA told you ?

This is a very old quote but:

I am Cretan and I don't really feel a connection with "Frankish" culture (whatever that is). I feel a connection with European culture as a whole. Growing up, two of my closest friends were Finnish (don't ask...) and one of them was American. Some of my other non-close friends (still my friends) were German, British and Albanian. That was because I grew up in a sort of touristy place in Crete where a lot of western Europeans settled permanently to raise their families.

That's a great example why in future Europe will be totally unified as one Nation/Union, with well mixed community. It's just a matter of time. You can scream, you can kick but you can't fight the nature. Well, actually you can exercise your free will and fight the nature, but you will loose regardless.
The nature I'm talking about is undeniable will of free people to mingle, mix and live wherever they want. With growing wealth of Europeans, with vanishing borders, with cooperative and friendly spirit among nations, the process will accelerate even further.

Welcome to Eupedia Boss.

PS. Now we have Maciamo boss, and the Boss. :D
 
That's a great example why in future Europe will be totally unified as one Nation/Union, with well mixed community. It's just a matter of time. You can scream, you can kick but you can't fight the nature. Well, actually you can exercise your free will and fight the nature, but you will loose regardless.
The nature I'm talking about is undeniable will of free people to mingle, mix and live wherever they want. With growing wealth of Europeans, with vanishing borders, with cooperative and friendly spirit among nations, the process will accelerate even further.

Welcome to Eupedia Boss.

PS. Now we have Maciamo boss, and the Boss. :D

Thank you for the welcome (I wasn't greeted well by the admins as my thread on Nordicism was erased).

Also, I am not entirely certain if by "you" you mean myself. I am in favour of vanishing borders and not just on a European level.

I don't think it'll be some kind of a natural event though. It can very well be reversed (see early 20th century protectionism).
 
Hello everyone, my first post.

I readily identify with being a neolithic hunter\gatherer.
I work well with wood, badly with metal, although I do find stonework laborious.
I enjoy the "energy" of the hunt and find gardening boring, but am happy to pick fruit from trees and bushes.
Like to be on the move, having more of an affinity for the sea rather than land.

Seems to be supported by my Y-DNA hg I1 (67 marker test + deep clade, terminal snp M253). Time and geographical emergence estimates for this group have changed a bit over the last few years, currently I am leaning towards the Doggerland as a place of emergence. Romantic possibly, but supports my being a boat oriented hunter gatherer.

Full mitochondrial sequence is H23. Behar et al puts emergence at 50BC geographically unknown. Most likely a female slave to a Roman family. (JK).

Awaiting FamilyFinder autosomal test results. If Gedmatch admixture H\G V farmer is not overwhelmingly Hunter Gather I will be most upset. :)
 
I readily identify with being a neolithic hunter\gatherer.

I didn't know you guys were still around, glad we got you DNA tested! :LOL:

Is there any actual tradition of being "on the move" in your family? Like perhaps traveller background?

Seems to be supported by my Y-DNA hg I1 (67 marker test + deep clade, terminal snp M253). Time and geographical emergence estimates for this group have changed a bit over the last few years, currently I am leaning towards the Doggerland as a place of emergence.

Any particular rationale? Doggerland is within range for, say, I2a1b2, but it seems too far west for I1, which has some of its older branches closer to Poland (although the whole thing seems to peak in diversity around Schleswig-Holstein).

Awaiting FamilyFinder autosomal test results. If Gedmatch admixture H\G V farmer is not overwhelmingly Hunter Gather I will be most upset. :)

Don't worry, I'm sure some Cro-Magnons will be happy to know about the interest you've taken in their culture, regardless.
 
Hi Sparkey,

"On the move"
Paternal lineage - Scottish carpenter journeymen, 3 generations. Father in Merchant Navy and heavy goods vehicle driver.
Maternal Lineage - family rumours of gypsy heritage, some photos may support that, but my DNA work so far does not show it. However, fathers\husbands of maternal line were in trades that moved; journeyman baker, oilman, brush-maker (tramps).
Almost all of my mother's 6 brothers were in the navy, both merchant and royal.

Doggerland:
I wish we had more aDNA. If one looks at a geographic map of current M253, I see a concentric distribution with Doggerland at it's centre, bearing in mind if this were a boating culture, as seems likely with current evidence and it having been a wetland environment, then travel eastwards into the baltic would have been relatively safer than into the upper north sea, also maybe less populated in eastern scandanavia than elsewhere.

Cro-magnon
Thanks :LOL:, I am light olive skinned and tan (not burn) very quickly (not that common for Englishmen);
"suggesting Cro-Magnons could have been medium brown to tan-skinned"
But I suspect they would have made mince-meat out of me.
 
My ancestors hail exclusively from Celtic and Germanic lands excluding the Finns (who were unlikely to be of the Saami sort). My Y DNA is now widely considered to represent a Germanic background (I2A2A). I do not yet know my MTDNA, but I suspect it is a common Irish one, as my maternal ancestors have been Irish for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. However, as they're Black Irish (dark haired Irish) it may be different from other populations. The Spanish Armada story is widely discreditted, but the black Irish subset of Ireland seems quite distinct from the rest of the population.

I have self-identified as Celto-Germanic on my census form.
 
My Y DNA is now widely considered to represent a Germanic background (I2A2A).

I2a2a (ISOGG terminology) is typically, but not wholly, Germanic in the context of the British Isles, especially most of the Cont branches. But I recall you being either Roots or Isles-E. Roots probably has been introduced to the British Isles in different ways, and the Isles branches could be quite ancient there... almost surely pre-Anglo-Saxon for most of it, and maybe even pre-Celtic in the case of some.

I have self-identified as Celto-Germanic on my census form.

US census "ancestry" designation fascinates me. Personally, even though "Celto-Germanic" would be fairly accurate to describe my ancestry as well, it probably would have been counted as "996: Uncodeable entry". (Although it's funny that they do count "Aryan"--apparently there were 3,308 Aryans roming the US as of 2000.) As I've explained before, my favored census designation is something like: Primary: American, Secondary: Welsh. Although still overly broad, it's nonetheless more specific than "Celto-Germanic," and would have actually gotten counted.
 
The fair hair and eyes of many Russians are also due to mixture with Finno-Ugrian peoples,
Finnic, not Ob-Ugrian, . The Ob Ugrians and Samoeydic people are racially mongoloid .
Myself, I'm an American of Russian/Ukrainian Jewish descent , and my maternal grandmother, the only
one of my grandparents I knew, was a native of the Ukrainian city of Chernivtsi , which was them part of the
Austro-Hungarian empire ,later a part of Romania, and later the Ukraine . She was born in the late 19th century, spoke Yiddish and German , and could get by in Ukrainian and Romanian . This region is caled Bukovina , and the people are a mix of Jews, Rssians,Ukrainians and Romanians .
I don't know exactly where in the Russo/Ukrainian world my paternal grandarents came from.
Chernivtsi is in the south-western Ukraine , near the Romanian border , and was called Czernowitz in German .
I don't look Semitic in the least and could easily pass for any Russian or Ukrainian, and have brown hair and green eyes . I have a wide ,round face and prominent cheekbones, and some people think I have a somewhat Asian appearance , with rather sllanted eyes . I could very possibly have some Turkic blood in me , and have long been interested in Turkic people. and have some familiarity with Turkish and Turkic languages .
 
I2a2a (ISOGG terminology) is typically, but not wholly, Germanic in the context of the British Isles, especially most of the Cont branches. But I recall you being either Roots or Isles-E. Roots probably has been introduced to the British Isles in different ways, and the Isles branches could be quite ancient there... almost surely pre-Anglo-Saxon for most of it, and maybe even pre-Celtic in the case of some.

Yes, if it turns out I am I2a2a-Isles it is likely that my paternal ancestry is Stonehengian (to use a silly term for pre-Celtic) if the conjectures of a native-Britain are proven right. Meanwhile, if I am roots, isn't it likely it's non-British? If I recall, I2A2A developed sometime around the LGM, with refugee populations in non-glaciated areas.

Also: As with you, I have tried to use surnames and other sources to give me a sense of what may have come to pass. My last name is Rowe and this surname is widely speculated to be of Norman extraction, which would actually mesh very well with the distribution of I2A2A historically. It's found in Scandinavia, in Germany, in Northwestern France, and in England.

Another possible root, however, would be that it is in fact native to Cornwall. That is where my immediate English paternal ancestors came from (as well as neighbouring Devon). However, in line with the first origin, one of the earliest Rowes on record was given a fief in Devon.

US census "ancestry" designation fascinates me. Personally, even though "Celto-Germanic" would be fairly accurate to describe my ancestry as well, it probably would have been counted as "996: Uncodeable entry". (Although it's funny that they do count "Aryan"--apparently there were 3,308 Aryans roming the US as of 2000.) As I've explained before, my favored census designation is something like: Primary: American, Secondary: Welsh. Although still overly broad, it's nonetheless more specific than "Celto-Germanic," and would have actually gotten counted.

I honestly had no idea they wouldn't simply write down what one gave them as a minority population, unless it was an obvious spelling error or joke (e.g. Martian). If it was fruitless, well, so be it: It's not that big of a loss. Although amusingly, my mother actually -worked- for the census this last go around...Also, it was a bit of a purposeful jab at the generic "Caucasian" that the US Government still uses. I've not had an ancestor that I know of in the Caucasus for upwards of 30,000 years, if ever. I am certainly a Caucasoid (in a broad group of races), but besides that it has always urked me to label myself as something which isn't accurate for an ethnic classification.
 
Not wanting to pay big money to do my admixture and not having a clue on how to use or which to use of the "K" calculators or weac, I have been relying on certain "professional" people in advising me on my HG
Since I am still getting SNP tests done ( now paid by others) , I was given basically this scenario , which changes slightly every month.

My line began, between North Ossettia and azerbajan, mostly likely from medes people, then arrived on the baltic sea in Ingrian lands, then in southern sweden or gotland and finally to the eastern alps. No dates are given

I was told 24% NE european, 11% celto-germanic and 5% North baltic
I presume North baltic refers to sweden and finland and south baltic to the south shores of the baltic sea.

some questions like, where is my caucasus %? is a mystery.

I have no issue at all on my HG type, I just want to know how accurate these figures are.

That is my only concern
 
Yes, if it turns out I am I2a2a-Isles it is likely that my paternal ancestry is Stonehengian (to use a silly term for pre-Celtic) if the conjectures of a native-Britain are proven right. Meanwhile, if I am roots, isn't it likely it's non-British? If I recall, I2A2A developed sometime around the LGM, with refugee populations in non-glaciated areas.

Well, every patriline is non-British if you go back far enough. I haven't really studied Roots closely, but I assume that it came to Britain in multiple migrations. I'm not confident with which was the most important.

It's not clear where I2a2a was during the LGM, but it is likely that its population shifted northward. See the black dots here. (Rough estimates... I'm thinking of moving the I2a2a-Isles dots down a bit soon based on new data; I still need to figure that out.)

Also: As with you, I have tried to use surnames and other sources to give me a sense of what may have come to pass. My last name is Rowe and this surname is widely speculated to be of Norman extraction, which would actually mesh very well with the distribution of I2A2A historically. It's found in Scandinavia, in Germany, in Northwestern France, and in England.

It is not common in France, and the German name probably has a different derivation than the British names (possibly from Rowy, Pomerania?). The British derivations I'm more familiar with, because it's a common name in Cornwall, which is an area of focus for me. There seems to be two common derivations. The Yorkshire/Lancashire derivation is probably the first Ancestry.com gives, a "topographic name for someone who lived by a hedgerow or in a row of houses built next to one another, from Middle English row (northern Middle English raw, from Old English raw)." The second is as a patronymic variation of Roul, Rollo, Rolf, Ralph, Rowland, etc. Most importantly, this includes the Cornish for Ralph (most Cornish surnames are patronymic... Cornish naming patterns are quite different from English naming patterns, they're closer to Welsh naming patterns).

Another possible root, however, would be that it is in fact native to Cornwall. That is where my immediate English paternal ancestors came from (as well as neighbouring Devon). However, in line with the first origin, one of the earliest Rowes on record was given a fief in Devon.

...hence, I suspect your surname is just a patronymic for the Cornish for "Ralph." My best guess, given just your surname, is that you probably had some Cornish-speaking ancestor name Rowe, whose son took that as his surname.

Where in Cornwall, by the way? I can help a lot with Cornish genealogy.
 
Well, every patriline is non-British if you go back far enough. I haven't really studied Roots closely, but I assume that it came to Britain in multiple migrations. I'm not confident with which was the most important.

It would make sense, as either Celtic or Germanic migrations occured at multiple times in the history of Britain. Question, though: Do you have any good resources on the Roots sub-clade? I have literally only been able to find passing references to the name, rather than any detailed information. I'd be most obliged.

It's not clear where I2a2a was during the LGM, but it is likely that its population shifted northward. See the black dots here. (Rough estimates... I'm thinking of moving the I2a2a-Isles dots down a bit soon based on new data; I still need to figure that out.)

Fantastic map. I agree, though, that the Isles dots could be pushed down a bit if this is supposed to represent refugia. Only the furthest South of Britain and Ireland was ice-free during the LGM, if I recall properly.

It is not common in France, and the German name probably has a different derivation than the British names (possibly from Rowy, Pomerania?). The British derivations I'm more familiar with, because it's a common name in Cornwall, which is an area of focus for me. There seems to be two common derivations. The Yorkshire/Lancashire derivation is probably the first Ancestry.com gives, a "topographic name for someone who lived by a hedgerow or in a row of houses built next to one another, from Middle English row (northern Middle English raw, from Old English raw)." The second is as a patronymic variation of Roul, Rollo, Rolf, Ralph, Rowland, etc. Most importantly, this includes the Cornish for Ralph (most Cornish surnames are patronymic... Cornish naming patterns are quite different from English naming patterns, they're closer to Welsh naming patterns).


I'm afraid you misunderstood me a bit. I had meant that I2a2a is in these other countries which, in association with one derivation of Rowe, makes sense. If Rowe is Norman, it makes sense that Rowe should be an I2a2a family. Not that the name remains in Germany, France, et cetera, which is highly unlikely in a direct connection. Very sorry for the confusion.

As for the name (and it is great that you know so much about Rowe! Thanks!) and its Cornish origins: That is one highly favoured by certain scholars of the name. I myself am on the fence about whether or not it is really Cornish historically, rather than Cornish by adoption (hundreds of years ago!). There is no doubt the Rowes are in Cornwall very early, but depending on the history of how they came to be in Cornwall, it could be. Your references to the potential patronymic names, for instance, are all names of non-Cornish derivation.

As for hedgerow, that's quite possibly one, too. I have never been able to get a definitive link to anything with that, though, and as it comes from Yorkshire and Lancastershire, it may represent a separate name from my branch (which is firmly Cornish). Rowe might be two names in actuality. It's hard to tell.

It also makes sense, as you said, that Cornish and Welsh naming conventions should be similar. Cornish and Welsh culture is, after all, based on a strong backing of the Britons that were pushed to the fringes of England with the coming of the Anglo-Saxons. The Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar too, aren't they? Although you Welshmen sure love your odd romanization...(I remember being in Wales and marvelling at the signage in Welsh that made absolutely no sense in its romanization).

...hence, I suspect your surname is just a patronymic for the Cornish for "Ralph." My best guess, given just your surname, is that you probably had some Cornish-speaking ancestor name Rowe, whose son took that as his surname.

I think it is highly likely, yes. Although if the ancestor that some Rowes give as one of the earliest examples of Rowe in England (Edevard de Rowe) it would have been a surname already. I favour the idea that it is patronymic, though, as with you. It makes a great deal of sense.

Where in Cornwall, by the way? I can help a lot with Cornish genealogy.

You're the most helpful guy around, my good man. Thank you very much. I really appreciate this insight. Truly.

James Rowe, 1804, parish of Breage, son of William and Mary Rowe. (Amusing, as I'm also James, son of William). That is the earliest my father went down to in his genealogy. However, I thought I had found someone a bit further down one time, but I cannot recall the information or where I might have.
 
It would make sense, as either Celtic or Germanic migrations occured at multiple times in the history of Britain. Question, though: Do you have any good resources on the Roots sub-clade? I have literally only been able to find passing references to the name, rather than any detailed information. I'd be most obliged.

It may be the largest I2 subclade that hasn't been studied with much depth, at least, as far as I'm aware. It's widely and thinly spread, so I suppose there's a lack of interest, because it's difficult to tie it to any one historical or archaeological migration.

Fantastic map. I agree, though, that the Isles dots could be pushed down a bit if this is supposed to represent refugia. Only the furthest South of Britain and Ireland was ice-free during the LGM, if I recall properly.

To be clear, it's supposed to represent the situation close to the beginning of the Neolithic, rather than refugia at the LGM about 10,000 years earlier. You can imagine the ancestors of the dots on that map being farther south across the map if we extrapolate back another 10,000 years.

As for the name (and it is great that you know so much about Rowe! Thanks!) and its Cornish origins: That is one highly favoured by certain scholars of the name. I myself am on the fence about whether or not it is really Cornish historically, rather than Cornish by adoption (hundreds of years ago!). There is no doubt the Rowes are in Cornwall very early, but depending on the history of how they came to be in Cornwall, it could be. Your references to the potential patronymic names, for instance, are all names of non-Cornish derivation.

Well, true, but at the adoption of surnames, Rowe would have been a fairly common given name in Cornwall, even though it is not anciently Cornish. Truly ancient Cornish names were out of style at the adoption of surnames, and ancient Cornish names only really pop up in the Tre- surnames, which tend to come from place names that were named after even more ancient people.

I'm not saying, though, that your Rowe name couldn't derive from something more interesting, like from the name of an ancient landed family. But you'll need to reach back pretty far to prove that... maybe using a Herald's visitation. Don't get your hopes too high, though... of the many surnames I've researched for myself and my wife in Cornwall, I've only found 2 recorded in any visitations. One of those was clearly derived from a manorial name to begin with, and the other was obviously Norman to begin with.

It also makes sense, as you said, that Cornish and Welsh naming conventions should be similar. Cornish and Welsh culture is, after all, based on a strong backing of the Britons that were pushed to the fringes of England with the coming of the Anglo-Saxons. The Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar too, aren't they? Although you Welshmen sure love your odd romanization...(I remember being in Wales and marvelling at the signage in Welsh that made absolutely no sense in its romanization).

Cornish and Welsh are in the same language family, the Brythonic languages. The phonology is a bit different, though... most English speakers find Cornish easier to pronounce, because it lacks the Welsh "ll" sound, amongst other things.

James Rowe, 1804, parish of Breage, son of William and Mary Rowe. (Amusing, as I'm also James, son of William). That is the earliest my father went down to in his genealogy. However, I thought I had found someone a bit further down one time, but I cannot recall the information or where I might have.

Breage, great. I have ancestors from three different places in Cornwall, one of those places being in Kerrier around the Lizard peninsula and a bit north of it. Some of those ancestors lived not too far from Breage... I think the closest I've found is Cury.

It was quick to find a baptism record for your James, a marriage record for your William and Mary, and another family researcher (whose tree looks to have some inaccuracies--be very skeptical).
 
It may be the largest I2 subclade that hasn't been studied with much depth, at least, as far as I'm aware. It's widely and thinly spread, so I suppose there's a lack of interest, because it's difficult to tie it to any one historical or archaeological migration.

I suppose it really only takes a few fathers, dispersed throughout many populations, to maintain the haplogroup through succesfully siring sons, while their neighbours might have more advanced mutations down the line.

To be clear, it's supposed to represent the situation close to the beginning of the Neolithic, rather than refugia at the LGM about 10,000 years earlier. You can imagine the ancestors of the dots on that map being farther south across the map if we extrapolate back another 10,000 years.

That makes much more sense. Do you have any maps of the glaciers at that time? I was under the impression the ice was fairly thick and near at that point. Wasn't the Black Sea still dry?

Well, true, but at the adoption of surnames, Rowe would have been a fairly common given name in Cornwall, even though it is not anciently Cornish. Truly ancient Cornish names were out of style at the adoption of surnames, and ancient Cornish names only really pop up in the Tre- surnames, which tend to come from place names that were named after even more ancient people.

That is quite possible, yes. Though there was a 17th century Cornish scholar that seemed to have had a strong sense for Cornish versions of common names. He suggested Kerew would have been the Cornish name for Rowe. I forgot his name. Perhaps you know it? I'll do a search tonight.

I'm not saying, though, that your Rowe name couldn't derive from something more interesting, like from the name of an ancient landed family. But you'll need to reach back pretty far to prove that... maybe using a Herald's visitation. Don't get your hopes too high, though... of the many surnames I've researched for myself and my wife in Cornwall, I've only found 2 recorded in any visitations. One of those was clearly derived from a manorial name to begin with, and the other was obviously Norman to begin with.


It would probablyb e very, very, very difficult to get past the 16th century. My Cornish side were tin miners. Though we know from history that noble families can very disastrously fall from grace (as most noble families have), I highly doubt that I could find a great deal of evidence of this fall from an actual ancestor. I know, for instance, that I'm not related to Nicholas Rowe, the poet laureate of England, much to my father's chagrin.

How might a herald's visitation work though to find something?


Cornish and Welsh are in the same language family, the Brythonic languages. The phonology is a bit different, though... most English speakers find Cornish easier to pronounce, because it lacks the Welsh "ll" sound, amongst other things.

Yep. I've heard that.


Breage, great. I have ancestors from three different places in Cornwall, one of those places being in Kerrier around the Lizard peninsula and a bit north of it. Some of those ancestors lived not too far from Breage... I think the closest I've found is Cury.

It would have been quite funny if our ancestors had spoken with one another at sometimes.

It was quick to find a baptism record for your James, a marriage record for your William and Mary, and another family researcher (whose tree looks to have some inaccuracies--be very skeptical).

I will give great attention tot his tonight. My father's genealogy has the marriage record listed, too. He does not, however, have the listing of William Rowe as being born in 1776, or any information on that James' parents. I'll have to check myself.

Thanks very much for this.
 
That makes much more sense. Do you have any maps of the glaciers at that time? I was under the impression the ice was fairly thick and near at that point. Wasn't the Black Sea still dry?

At the LGM or in 4000 BCE? I'm actually not as familiar with the glaciation of either time period as I probably should be.

That is quite possible, yes. Though there was a 17th century Cornish scholar that seemed to have had a strong sense for Cornish versions of common names. He suggested Kerew would have been the Cornish name for Rowe. I forgot his name. Perhaps you know it? I'll do a search tonight.

Google tells me that it was William Rowe who suggested it. He translated some of the Bible into Cornish in the 17th century. I'm not sure why he would have thought "Kerew" was Cornish for "Rowe," they seem unrelated to me.

It would probablyb e very, very, very difficult to get past the 16th century. My Cornish side were tin miners. Though we know from history that noble families can very disastrously fall from grace (as most noble families have), I highly doubt that I could find a great deal of evidence of this fall from an actual ancestor. I know, for instance, that I'm not related to Nicholas Rowe, the poet laureate of England, much to my father's chagrin.

Ah, tin miners, so you've been a Cousin Jack all along. Did your ancestors come to America directly from Cornwall as a result of the collapse in the mining economy in the 1800s? There are several heritage societies in the US founded mainly by people of that extraction. The closest to New York is the Cornish Heritage Society East. I'm a member of the California Cornish Cousins myself.

Sometimes even tin miners had interesting relations, though. One of my tin mining ancestors knew John Opie personally, before he rose to fame.

How might a herald's visitation work though to find something?

Just look through it. Use the index. Google also lets you do a text search. I found some of my ancestors on page 289, and some of my wife's ancestors on page 576. I don't see any pages dedicated to any Rowes, however.
 
Akkadians, Assyrians and other Semites called my ancestors Umman Manda. Zaluti was was one of their well known leaders. I feel me related to these folks!

This is what I got from wikipedia:

"Umman Manda (Akkadian for host of Manda) is a term used in the early second and first millennia BC for a poorly known people in ancient near east whom by some scholars are identified as to be of Indo-European origin. The homeland of Ummanda seems to be somewhere from Central Anatolia to north or northeastern Babylonia in what later came to be known as Mitanni, Mannae and Media, respectively. Zaluti, a leader of Ummanda Manda is mentioned, whose name seems to have an Indo-Iranian etymology. He is even suggested to be identified with Salitis the founder of the Hyksos, the Fifteenth dynasty of Egypt.

The principal literary source is the so-called Cuthaean Legend of Naram-Sin, a composition that deals with the third-millennium king of Agade (Akkad) Naram-Sin and his struggles against the Umman-manda. As a literary topos, the Umman-manda represent a socio-cultural phenomenon with a strong theological basis: The Umman-manda are created by the gods and called forth from their homeland on the northeastern frontier of Mesopotamia by the chief god, be it Enlil, Marduk, or Aššur, for some particular work of destruction; since this destruction is divinely ordained, human beings are powerless to stop it, and in fact are enjoined against interfering; when the destruction is completed, the gods themselves will destroy the Umman-manda. In the literary topos, the Umman-manda is the enemy of civilization. The question of who the original Umman-manda were remains a mystery. [1]

In the first millennium BC, the term denoted Cimmerians and/or Medes."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umman_Manda
 
At the LGM or in 4000 BCE? I'm actually not as familiar with the glaciation of either time period as I probably should be.

At 4000 BC. I know it was not nearly as bad as the LGM, but I was under the impression that one could still speak of the Ice Age in Europe at the time.

Google tells me that it was William Rowe who suggested it. He translated some of the Bible into Cornish in the 17th century. I'm not sure why he would have thought "Kerew" was Cornish for "Rowe," they seem unrelated to me.

Here's a long post on a genealogy forum that explains some thoughts on Rowe, including the reason for Kerew:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ROWE/2001-08/0998536051

Ah, tin miners, so you've been a Cousin Jack all along. Did your ancestors come to America directly from Cornwall as a result of the collapse in the mining economy in the 1800s? There are several heritage societies in the US founded mainly by people of that extraction. The closest to New York is the Cornish Heritage Society East. I'm a member of the California Cornish Cousins myself.

Ha! I never knew of the Cornish Heritage society! I will definitely contact them.

But yes, they came in the 19th century directly from Cornwall. My Rowes, specifically, settled in Illinois (from whence my father comes). THey seemed to have quit mining pretty early on in Illinois, though, as my father's father was a brick layer who died from inhalation of brick dust. I think my great grandfather on my father's line still was a miner, though. I cannot be sure.

But yep, a Cousin Jack here.

Sometimes even tin miners had interesting relations, though. One of my tin mining ancestors knew John Opie personally, before he rose to fame.

Wow!

Just look through it. Use the index. Google also lets you do a text search. I found some of my ancestors on page 289, and some of my wife's ancestors on page 576. I don't see any pages dedicated to any Rowes, however.

Thank you very much. I found 10 results for Rowe already. The first from 1543. I have no idea if I am directly related to him, though.
 
Akkadians, Assyrians and other Semites called my ancestors Umman Manda. Zaluti was was one of their well known leaders. I feel me related to these folks!

This is what I got from wikipedia:

Do you know how to ride a chariot? You've got the blood, so get going! They were the chariot masters of the ancient world.
 
Do you know how to ride a chariot? You've got the blood, so get going! They were the chariot masters of the ancient world.
I hate horses. But I like fast cars and driving long distances with very high speed. But I think that's because I'm just young, wild and crazy.

Astyages was the last Median (Median Empire) king of Umman-Manda folks.
 
Other known king of Umman Manda folks was a Cimmerian called Teushpa. According to me Mannaens (from the Umman Manda homeland) were the first true founding fathers of Kurdish race (modern Kurdish ethnicity)!

"This time the Cimmerians seem to have more control over the province of Mannae (Northeast Kurdistan).The man to lead the Cimmerians was known by the Assyrians as King Teushpa of the Umman Manda. He would lead the Cimmerian forces into battle against King Esarhaddon. This term Umman Manda must be addressed before we go on. Umman Manda is not only addressed to the Cimmerians by the Assyrian's, the Assyrians also apply this term to the Sakae (Scythians) and the Guti. The dialects of Umman Manda can possible mean People of Manasseh Umman means people and Manda means Manasseh."

http://britam.org/CamReaAssyria.html
 

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