With what ancient ethnicity do you most identify, and what has DNA told you ?

I was always brought up with the attitude of my dad really, and we both identify most with the Anglo-Saxons - although i didn't really start investigating until a couple of years ago. Upon investigation most of my ancestry is from eastern England(south-east and north-east included), with a bit from Western England(Cheshire), Wales (Pembrokeshire), Ireland (Dublin) and lowland Scotland (Berwickshire), but weighted more towards south-east England.
DNA Wise my y-Haplogroup and surname support an Angle or Viking origin, and my mt-line (comes from Kent the furthest back) could be any nature of things, but given U5a1's weight towards eastern Europe and the higher frequencies in northern Germany and Norway, perhaps Anglo-Saxon is more likely.
Autosomally i seem to be very eastern for a British person, but within the range. The overall impression i get of my north European ancestry is that of being most closely related to English and Dutch. Add in to that a small amount (3% or 6%) of Middle-eastern ancestry, and it is quite an interesting scenario. It's interesting because i have always liked the Dutch people i have known, and there is a small Dutch contingent to my extended family (I think they are Frisian actually) through marriage. This is also interesting when you consider that they appear to be our primary genetic and linguistic link to the continent.


So yes it seems i identify most with the Anglo-Saxons (as a broad term), or with the people's surrounding the north Sea. However, to ignore my Celtic and Middle-Eastern ancestry would be completely unwarranted - My family have generally gone on holiday to the traditionally Celtic areas of Britain, and Ireland - and i very much like them, in particular Ireland. I guess i can't claim to my ancestors from Wales, Ireland and Scotland as being 100% Celtic, being that they are from probably the least traditionally Celtic areas of their respective countries, at least as far back as i have gone, but nevertheless i have a very fond connection with my second favourite group of ancestors. :]

I hope i live to see 2066...

I am also currently working on resolving what my Middle-Eastern ancestry actually is - Of course my first thought was Jewish, as it is by far the most likely given historic Jewish settlement in Western Europe. The trouble i am having with it (especially with more recent iterations of the Eurogenes project), is that the ratios of various components used don't match up with the unusual parts of my components. It seems to definitely be Middle-Eastern, but it is arguably looking less Near-eastern than i would expect. Of course Jewish is still one of my primary options, but i must explore a number of avenues or look for definitive evidence in the paper ancestry.

So yes i find it quite interesting that so far there hasn't been anything unexpected turn up - I knew there was something African or Middle-Eastern already, and i suspected the rest.

I saw someone mention phenotype earlier in the thread. It's not overly important to me, but i guess i fit quite well with my ancestry. Hair is medium-dark brown, was light blond until about 6/7 and then golden blond/brown until about 11 when i finally turned brown for good. My family and ancestors traditionally have brown-dark brown hair with a blond minority (generally a couple of generations back or more), my dad's side and myself have slight reddish or reddish-golden undertones to our hair. Eyes are blue or light-mixed(small green ring around the middle), pretty much all of my dad's side have had blue/light-mixed eyes, and the majority of my mum's side. I'm quite tall (6"1 at the moment, father is 6"4 and a half - i got the short genes :D) and me and my dad's side typically have heavy brow-ridges, deep set eyes, tall stature and a heavy build. My father's side also generally have a very heavy jaw and a broad-ish nose, but i didn't get either. My mum's side seem to have pretty much everything under the sun at some point, tall/short dark/fair slim/heavy.

I actually think i am a pretty good average of my family overall - tall but not overly tall, not exceptionally fair or dark, not exceptionally heavy or slim.

But anyway enough about that :].

I remember watching a program recently, an old program with Darcus Howe, i think it was called White Tribe - I agree with him that it is unfortunate that the English seem to be having an identity crisis - I think we should celebrate our heritage and culture in the way that many other countries do - but it is actually hard to define what English culture is. It's sad that often it seems we are either self-guilty and are anxious not to celebrate our identity - After all i think if i went to any other country, and the people were ashamed or afraid of celebrating their culture, i would find that more concerning than if they celebrated it aggressively.

I think a person needs an identity that they are willing to be proud of comfortable/secure about before they can respect the identity of others by allowing them to celebrate it :]. Some people are happy not to identify, but that is their choice, after all we humans are very tribal/group oriented creatures, and i find it ironic that people can be so into individuality that they join groups based around not being part of a group, or a trend. xD

I didn't intend this post to get philosophical, but it's past midnight.

Kind Regards,
Sam Jackson
 
I feel closer to my mother's family than to my father's, wich is flemish. Despite I was born in France and my native language is french, I always loved the serbian folkore, culture and history. Moreover I look like more to my mother than to my father.

So I can say that I feel more serbian than flemish.
 
I'm an American of mostly Colonial American ancestry so I have English, Welsh, Scottish, French, Dutch, Belgian, German, Swiss, Slovakian (Czechoslovakian), ancestry. I know my English lines, on my mother's side, has ancestry and ties to various other European areas, from way back in the Middle Ages (Leon;Castile;Spain;Aragon;Aquitaine;France;Kiev;Italy;Norway...etc). My biggest unknown is my Czechoslovakian side, from two Great Grandparents who immigrated to the USA in the early 1900s, and I've always been told I must be part Mongolian (or "Hun". because they mixed with Slavs). So I did an admixture test with DNAPrint (AncestryByDNA 2.5) and my result was, with a margin of error ("confidence interval") of +/- 8%, 83% European and 17% Native American. My next test was DNA Tribes. I started out with that in 2006 with 13 STR markers and kept upgrading up to the 27 STR markers. I had a wide array of matches, from all over the world. Some of my top matches were Syria, Pakistan, Bahrain, Portugal, Spain, Sicily, Kathmandu, Uyghur, Brahmin from Orissa, Greece, Cypriot Greek, Mozambique, Oman, Brazil, Morocco, and in my last upade, when they added a Slovakian population "Saris, Slovakia" was in my top 20, but other matches include Croatia, Romania, Finland, Norway, Flemish, Ecuador, Colombia, and so on. Via email I was told my STR profile was consistent with 1/8 to 1/4 Native American ancestry. 17% would be 1/6. Later on, in Autumn 2009, I tested at 23andme. 23andme changed my results twice. First it was 100% European, changed in 2009 to Europe >99% and Africa<1%, then it was changed again to Europe 99%, Asian <1%, and African 1%. That is on the V2 platform. I haven't done the V3.
 
Ah, I see can't edit to add more, so I 'll make an additional post. I sent my 23andme raw data file to Dr. McDonald back when 23andme said I was Europe>99% and Africa<1%. He said I 92% Orcadian (Okrney) and the rest from "somewhere-anywhere-in the Middle East". And he said I had .5% (half of one percent of African). I asked him about my Native American green square on chr 6 and he said it was .25% and likely noise. He put blue squares for African on my chr 3, 4, and 5.
He also told me I had a sliver of Middle Eastern on chr 8, but I couldn't see it, 8 is all red (European). So aside from the green and blue squares, everything is European, including my X-chromosome.
After I posted about this on the 23andme community forum, and other forums, 23andme changed my Ancestry Painting to include a bit more African, but on Chr 3 and 5, nothing on chr 4. And they added Asian and I went from zero Asian to some on chromosomes 4 and 8. No Asian on 6. Doesn't really match.

I asked 23andme via email why they changed my results, if it was just a change is interpretation of my "calls", or if the "calls" (A,C,T,G) were changed. They didn't answer my question. And my sample wasn't saved so it could NOT have been a re-run of my sample.

I've read on the forum that 23andme's margin of error is about 2% to 3%. And some have said the Native American can be under counted by about 25%.


I've sent my raw data to Eurogenes. And someone else volunteered to run my raw data file in the Dienekes calculators for me.
I've also joined Gedmatch.
 
I'm an American of mostly Colonial American ancestry so I have... Slovakian (Czechoslovakian), ancestry.

...My biggest unknown is my Czechoslovakian side, from two Great Grandparents who immigrated to the USA in the early 1900s...

I was about to ask, "Which one was the Slovakian colony?" :LOL:

But good luck with learning more about your ancestry, your journey reminds me somewhat of mine, although I admit that I've been lucky enough with my genealogical research that I haven't considered autosomal testing particularly relevant yet. I can already see specifically where in Europe certain parts of my ancestry came from, and note trends and the genetics of others from those areas. My personal Dodecad scores, for example, wouldn't tell me as much.

To answer the original question, my Y-DNA test told me the most, as I was debating another family researcher with my surname about the etymology of it. He claimed it was probably an Anglicized form of a Scottish Gaelic surname, but I contended that it was more likely an Anglicized form of a Swiss German surname. We took DNA tests, and my theory was confirmed. It was actually very cool to get a result so quickly.

Nonetheless, I don't identify particularly strongly with many Iron Age tribes. Most areas my family comes from are areas that followed the pattern of being P-Celtic at the beginning of the Classical Age, and West Germanic by the end of the Migration Period. Genetics have tended to show that remnants of both ended up significantly in those areas, so I figure that I'm descended from both, and don't "take a side" when reading about the history of those areas.

The main exceptions seem to be that I have significant ancestry from Southeast Wales and Cornwall, which were both P-Celtic until relatively late. And although they've certainly had their later influxes of people with Anglo-Saxon descent, genetics have tended to show that they're relatively contiguous with their associated ancient tribes: the Silures and the Dumnonii, respectively. Also, since my Welsh and Cornish sides are the only sides of my family to have settled in America after it became independent, they're the only sides that I think of mainly in terms of their history in Europe rather than their history in America, and there's a sense of immediateness. So I admit that I've tended to think of the Silures and Dumnonii as "my ancestors" when reading about them. (But I don't take it too seriously!)
 
Celtiberian Tribes.(Lusitani Tribes)
DNA test much needed.
 
On my mother's side I'm well-documented as being of English descent, most likely originally Anglo-Saxon. Researching my father's side has been a bit more troublesome.

I have a Lowland Scottish surname, but my father's side is documented as coming from Derry, Ireland. The most obvious conclusion to make here would be that my father's side immigrated to Ireland as Ulster Scots. The problem there lies with the fact that my father's side was and (with the exception of my father and grandfather) still is, staunchly Catholic. This was rare among Lowland Scots in general, but especially of Ulster Scots - who had to be Protestant in order to take part in the Ulster Plantation in the first place.

Add that to the fact that I now know my ancestor lived in what appears to have been an Irish Catholic enclave in Templemore, Derry, that he appears to have been following Irish naming traditions in naming his children, that we haven't found any DNA matches to other individuals bearing my surname in Scotland or England, that he married an Irish woman, that he established an Irish Catholic settlement in Southern Illinois, and finally that I've found a possible pre-anglicized surname, and at this point I'm convinced that my father's side is Irish, rather than Ulster Scottish. The fact that the bulk of my Y-chromosome haplogroup is found in Ireland also helps, though it is still found in Scotland and England to a lesser extent.

I would prefer that more research be done into I2a1b2-Isles, as there's precious little information available on it and very few candidates for SNP comparison. But for some irritating reason, it seems like Nordtvedt is the only one doing any real work on the haplogroup. That's fairly confusing to me, considering that the holders of I2a1b2 might have been the first settlers of the British Isles, before the Celts ever arrived. Genealogy is still an emerging science though, I'm sure more representatives of my haplogroup will come out of the woodwork as more and more people get their DNA tested.

As for which ancient ethnicity I identify with most, it would be the ancient Celts, which my research tends to support. I should probably also identify with the Anglo-Saxons and the Germanic tribes they left behind - on account of my mother's side - but the fact is, the unbroken Y-chromosomal line that traces back to Ireland on my father's side instills more of a sense of heritage in me. I don't share the Y-chromosome of my mother's father's DNA, so the English angle of it doesn't strike me as quite as personal. Nevertheless, I enjoy researching my genealogy on both sides of my family, and love learning about both cultures - not to mention all the rest that color human history, in Europe and beyond.
 
I think my Y DNA line belong to the Santone Tribe of SW France I will continue to think this until DNA updates show something different.
 
I think my Y DNA line belong to the Santone Tribe of SW France I will continue to think this until DNA updates show something different.

It would make sense. The Santones were not too far from where R1b-SRY2627 tends to be most frequent, and they seem more likely than a non-Gaulish source, like Franks or Romans.

Do you only identify with your Y-DNA line, though? Are there any other ancient tribes that you identify with? I mean, my Y line probably passed through some Gaulish tribe at one time (Helvetii or Raurici seem likely), but I don't mention it as something I identify with, because it's probably not a major part of my ancestry outside of my Y line, and I'm not certain about it.
 
Well sparky here are other names in my blood Schwarz Kuntz Thrash Snodgrass Gist Albin Coats Allen Butler Ryden cornu allenet

Snodgrass is my maternal Great Grandmothers name it is Celtic for smooth grass and Gist is my paternal Great Grandmothers name it is Welsh The Schwarz's are the newest they came in the 1870s rest have been here a long long time. Allen was my 5th Great Grandmothers maiden name she descended from a Caviler. I have not researched back on the other names yet like I have my Y line
 
Well sparky here are other names in my blood Schwarz Kuntz Thrash Snodgrass Gist Albin Coats Allen Butler Ryden cornu allenet

Snodgrass is my maternal Great Grandmothers name it is Celtic for smooth grass and Gist is my paternal Great Grandmothers name it is Welsh The Schwarz's are the newest they came in the 1870s rest have been here a long long time. Allen was my 5th Great Grandmothers maiden name she descended from a Caviler. I have not researched back on the other names yet like I have my Y line

Well, let's see... Relying on Maciamo's surname distribution topic heavily, I find...

Schwarz: A very common German name, I assume you know where in Germany (Austria? Somewhere else?) they came from?

Kuntz: Typically Palatine. If they didn't come with the Schwarzes but instead came during the Colonial period, I would definitely suspect Palatine origins.

Thrash: Unclear. Could be a variant of English "Thrush" or an Anglicized form of Palatine German "Dresch."

Snodgrass: Actually Middle English, not "Celtic," but you're right that it means "smooth grass." Typically Scottish, from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, or Lanarkshire.

Gist: Not Welsh. Probably from Old English "giest," meaning "guest," or someone who wasn't from around there. Clearly most common in Devon, which was a county that was represented a lot among the English colonists, especially the Cavaliers.

Albin: Could be from lots of places in Western Europe, it's a patronymic.

Coats: More commonly "Coates," it's English, most common around Yorkshire. It means "cottager."

Allen: Again a patronymic, but at least this one we can mostly narrow down to "probably British." Cavaliers tended to come from Southern England.

Butler: Obviously, it's from English, "butler." Could be from anywhere in Britain, although it's particularly uncommon in Wales and Cornwall.

Ryden: This one is curious, because it has possible Scandinavian origins, from "ryd," meaning "woodland clearing." Almost certainly from Lancashire if that side of your family is from Britain.

Cornu: This is the one that caught my eye and made me decide to do this analysis for you. It's a really interesting surname. It's definitely more common in France than in Britain, so you may want to investigate to see if this could be another Huguenot family. The root seems to be "corn" for "horn," and my only guess is that it might refer to the Breton region of Cornouaille, although the name peaks in frequency well East of there, at the border with Belgium. Maybe a Belgian can comment. The only possibility I see for a British origin is if it's a variant of "Curno," a common Cornish name meaning "Cornwall."

Allenet: You probably don't need me to tell you that this one is French. Uncommon everywhere, but occurs occasionally around Saintonge. Presumably Huguenot.
 
The Cornu's are from Taillebourg and the Allenet's are from the Saintongs area These 2 names are part of my Huguenot roots

I'm just a typical American who's roots have been here a good while
 
The Cornu's are from Taillebourg and the Allenet's are from the Saintongs area

As expected for the Allenets, although it's interesting, there aren't really many Cornus at all in Saintonge anymore.
I'm just a typical American who's roots have been here a good while

I think you've got some interesting patterns in your family history... More Huguenot ancestry that is typical, more Cavalier ancestry than is typical, less Puritan and Quaker ancestry than is typical... etc.

There are a lot of interesting regional variations in colonial American settlement, which affects and differentiates colonial descendants to this day. (And I have argued even played a major part in conflicts like the Civil War.)
 
I had kin on both sides in the civil war My Y line came from Lincoln County TN. my third Great Grandfather fought with the 44th TN INF. they were at Shiloh. I have no clue if any of them were Quakers All Protestants except for the Schwarz's they are Catholic. My maternal Grandmother was a Butler the family still owns land since the 1860s on the trail of tears in Salem KY. my Great Aunt lives on it part of the original trail crosses our land with a few Indian burials on it. By the way Sparky Cavilers were just soldiers right that came early to protect the the settlements? Sorry the Allen is Alen. The French surnames in my line can be seen on the Marriage certificate I posted. I would think most of these people are R1b I need to get my Grandfather schwarz tested
 
Well, let's see... Relying on Maciamo's surname distribution topic heavily, I find...

Schwarz: A very common German name, I assume you know where in Germany (Austria? Somewhere else?) they came from?

Kuntz: Typically Palatine. If they didn't come with the Schwarzes but instead came during the Colonial period, I would definitely suspect Palatine origins.

Thrash: Unclear. Could be a variant of English "Thrush" or an Anglicized form of Palatine German "Dresch."

Snodgrass: Actually Middle English, not "Celtic," but you're right that it means "smooth grass." Typically Scottish, from Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, or Lanarkshire.

Gist: Not Welsh. Probably from Old English "giest," meaning "guest," or someone who wasn't from around there. Clearly most common in Devon, which was a county that was represented a lot among the English colonists, especially the Cavaliers.

Albin: Could be from lots of places in Western Europe, it's a patronymic.

Coats: More commonly "Coates," it's English, most common around Yorkshire. It means "cottager."

Allen: Again a patronymic, but at least this one we can mostly narrow down to "probably British." Cavaliers tended to come from Southern England.

Butler: Obviously, it's from English, "butler." Could be from anywhere in Britain, although it's particularly uncommon in Wales and Cornwall.

Ryden: This one is curious, because it has possible Scandinavian origins, from "ryd," meaning "woodland clearing." Almost certainly from Lancashire if that side of your family is from Britain.

Cornu: This is the one that caught my eye and made me decide to do this analysis for you. It's a really interesting surname. It's definitely more common in France than in Britain, so you may want to investigate to see if this could be another Huguenot family. The root seems to be "corn" for "horn," and my only guess is that it might refer to the Breton region of Cornouaille, although the name peaks in frequency well East of there, at the border with Belgium. Maybe a Belgian can comment. The only possibility I see for a British origin is if it's a variant of "Curno," a common Cornish name meaning "Cornwall."

Allenet: You probably don't need me to tell you that this one is French. Uncommon everywhere, but occurs occasionally around Saintonge. Presumably Huguenot.

I have a relative who's name is Dessmann from Friuli area ( search lineage and always in friuli for 300 years plus ) , what germanioc area would this name come from and does mann at the end mean similar to son of or something else
 
I had kin on both sides in the civil war My Y line came from Lincoln County TN. my third Great Grandfather fought with the 44th TN INF. they were at Shiloh.

OK, it's cool that you know so much, a lot of people in the US have no idea about their Civil War heritage. I also had ancestors on both sides, including a Confederate shot at Crampton's Gap, a Unionist shot at Antietam, and another Unionist shot (and captured) at Chickamauga.

I have no clue if any of them were Quakers All Protestants except for the Schwarz's they are Catholic.

Quakers are usually pretty identifiable in genealogy. They also tended to avoid wars at all costs... I know that an able-bodied Quaker I descend from who lived at the time intentionally did not serve.

By the way Sparky Cavilers were just soldiers right that came early to protect the the settlements?

Not exactly, they were Anglican Royalists originally, many of whom left England during the mid 1600s, when the Puritans gained influence, and when Oliver Cromwell was in power. They tended to be rather conservative and brought many servants, so often when we speak of "Cavalier migrations," we're speaking of both them, and their servants. (They also brought slaves, but slaves are obviously never referred to as "Cavaliers"). They mostly came to Virginia to earn money, along with the intention of escaping the Puritans. Their descendants largely dispersed westward and southward from Virginia over time, and tended to adopt the Baptist religion around the time of the Revolution, when Anglicanism became unpopular.
 
I have a relative who's name is Dessmann from Friuli area ( search lineage and always in friuli for 300 years plus ) , what germanioc area would this name come from and does mann at the end mean similar to son of or something else

I can't find anything on "Dessmann" offhand, it is an interesting surname. It looks like Americans with that surname are mainly of Italian origin rather than German origin, maybe relatives of your relative.
 
Not exactly, they were Anglican Royalists originally, many of whom left England during the mid 1600s, when the Puritans gained influence, and when Oliver Cromwell was in power. They tended to be rather conservative and brought many servants, so often when we speak of "Cavalier migrations," we're speaking of both them, and their servants. (They also brought slaves, but slaves are obviously never referred to as "Cavaliers"). They mostly came to Virginia to earn money, along with the intention of escaping the Puritans. Their descendants largely dispersed westward and southward from Virginia over time, and tended to adopt the Baptist religion around the time of the Revolution, when Anglicanism became unpopular.


That makes sense the Brousse's/ Bruce's started in Va then to NC My 5th Great Grandfather was given land in Lincoln County TN for service in the Revolution I know the Alen's also hailed from NC Both Families owned slaves. As much as I love to talk history I'm sorry for hijacking the thread
 
Since the 2nd Byzantine Period of Crete, from 961 A.D, many Western European merchants settled in the island and later on the Venetian occupation came at 1204 and lasted for almost 500 years, so their influence was great :)

Cretans still have a different dialect which includes words that are clearly not Greek, influenced by Wester European languages. There are also many Roman Catholics in the island, more than the average of Greece. So you will find many Cretans feeling a "connection" with Frankish culture. That doesn't apply to the rest of Greeks though, except for those who live at the Ionian islands, because they were also under Venetian rule for quite a while.

This is a very old quote but:

I am Cretan and I don't really feel a connection with "Frankish" culture (whatever that is). I feel a connection with European culture as a whole. Growing up, two of my closest friends were Finnish (don't ask...) and one of them was American. Some of my other non-close friends (still my friends) were German, British and Albanian. That was because I grew up in a sort of touristy place in Crete where a lot of western Europeans settled permanently to raise their families.

With respect to the original article:

I identify with both the Ancient Greeks and the Eastern Romans (a.k.a. the Byzantines). I don't know what my actual genetic make up is like. I do want to know ofc.
 
Dunno why I wrote article. I meant post. FML.
 

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