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Thread: Origins of European haplogroups

  1. #1
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    Origins of European haplogroups

    I have found the article about this topics very interesting and well done. The description of prehistoric populations of our continent and what probably happened to them seems to me very rational and plausible. I have got some comments about:
    - I think it should be better to indicate who are the authors of this section.
    - There is a “Trivia”, very trivial for sure, which claims that “kings of many European countries have been confirmed to be R1b”. Who are these kings? In the Web I have found only four historical European dynasties tested: Swedish Folkung belonging to Y haplogroup I1, Lithuanian Gediminas and Russian Rurikid to Y haplogoup N and Romanov to R1b; this accordingly to the main groups of countries they reigned.
    - Another point of the article affirms that “preliminary research has already established a link between certain haplogroups and increased sperm mobility”. What kind of research is this? It is very difficult to believe that exist a link between DNA mutations occurred in non codifying zones of Y chromosome, like those which define Y haplogroups, and some very codified properties like sperm ones.
    - It is not clear who is the real mtDNA haplogroup correlated to Y-DNA R1: “J” that is said to have connection with it, “W” that is said equivalent of it or “I” that is defined mirror of R1.
    - It is cited in the sources Kalevi Wiik’s work “Where did European men come from” that assumes that IE languages was developed first by Balkan people of haplogroup I unlike what it is said in the article.

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    Your Eupedia site shows that 15 per cent of Italian mtDNA is in the "other " category, more than most other European countries even in the Mediterranean basin.

    Does this indicate more Middle Eastern, Asiatic and African DNA in modern Italians than in most other Europeans?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vallicanus View Post
    Your site shows that 15 per cent of Italian mtDNA is in the "other " category, more than most other European countries even in the Mediterranean basin.

    Does this indicate more Middle Eastern, Asiatic and African DNA in modern Italians than in most other Europeans?
    No. They are old haplogroups such as N, R, HV

  4. #4
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    From Eupedia.

    The "Other" category includes mostly the older haplogroups N, R, pre-HV and HV, but also occasionally a few African (L) or Asian haplogroups (A, B, C, D, M, Z).

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    Quote Originally Posted by danilobu View Post
    I think it should be better to indicate who are the authors of this section.
    Just me.

    There is a “Trivia”, very trivial for sure, which claims that “kings of many European countries have been confirmed to be R1b”. Who are these kings? In the Web I have found only four historical European dynasties tested: Swedish Folkung belonging to Y haplogroup I1, Lithuanian Gediminas and Russian Rurikid to Y haplogoup N and Romanov to R1b; this accordingly to the main groups of countries they reigned.
    The list was compiled by me by retracing the genealogy of the few people who were tested. I went up to the oldest known ancestor for the Y-DNA or mtDNA line (depending on the known haplogroup), then down the tree again to find all Y-DNA or mtDNA lineages descending from that ancestor.



    Another point of the article affirms that “preliminary research has already established a link between certain haplogroups and increased sperm mobility”. What kind of research is this? It is very difficult to believe that exist a link between DNA mutations occurred in non codifying zones of Y chromosome, like those which define Y haplogroups, and some very codified properties like sperm ones.

    I started a thread listing medical conditions associated with Y-DNA. The study you are looking for is this one :
    Haplogroup E1b1b has a higher incidence of azoospermia in Italians. For more information search articles in scientific publications like Nature.


    It is not clear who is the real mtDNA haplogroup correlated to Y-DNA R1: “J” that is said to have connection with it, “W” that is said equivalent of it or “I” that is defined mirror of R1.
    There is a "real" or a single mtDNA haplogroup that correlates with R1a or R1b, and even less with all R1. I am still researching this. You can see the correlations I found in this thread. I am not aware of anybody having done a more thorough job at present.

    It is cited in the sources Kalevi Wiik’s work “Where did European men come from” that assumes that IE languages was developed first by Balkan people of haplogroup I unlike what it is said in the article.
    This is because the sources were only used for haplogroup frequencies. I do not condone the researchers' interpretation. Each author has his/her own opinion on how to interpret the data. But unfortunately many geneticists have a very poor background in (pre)history, archaeology and linguistics (unlike me). The three are absolutely necessary to make sense of ancient population genetics. Everybody can emit wild guesses and suppositions. What I wrote on this site is based on all the archaeological, historical and linguistic evidence available to specialists in these fields.

    I do not pretend that it is "the truth" and I do not claim that my interpretation will not evolve with time. There is still too much genetic data missing, especially regarding ancient Y-DNA and the deep subclades of ancient mtDNA. But since I have started writing the page about the history of European haplogroups about one and a half year ago all the new studies have confirmed my hypotheses.
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