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Thread: R1b in Iberian Peninsula, France and the British Islands

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    R1b in Iberian Peninsula, France and the British Islands



    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.


    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch. Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today. I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.


    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch. Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today. I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?
    Come now, why should ANY of this surprise you? Iberia had one of the highest levels of Celtic settlement saturation in all of Europe. The evidence is overwhelming... Start with Wikipedia.

    Many philologists and other linguists believe that Tartessian (SW Iberia) was the first Celtic language. Celticity may well have originated in the Iberian Peninsula. There is abundant evidence of Celtic circulation between Iberia, the British Isles, Gaul and Central Europe. Read Cunliffe and Koch, among others. The British Isles, much of western Iberia and western France comprise what is known as the Atlantic Celtic lands.

    BTW, the average percentage of red hair in Europe is 3%. The highest levels are found in Scotland (~ 6%). Ireland averages ~ 5% and Spain and Portugal about 3% each.

    Also, a rather large number of Spaniards and Portuguese are not typically Mediterranean in phenotype - a gross misconception on the part of many people. Rather, a majority, particularly central to north, are Paleo-Atlantid, Nordid-Atlantid or Atlanto-Mediterranean, and similar to other Atlantic Facade populations.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 13-05-10 at 16:12.

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    Oh come now, why should any of this be a surprise to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.
    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch. Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today. I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?
    Read some of the latest research for starters:
    http://rokus01.wordpress.com

    Also, look up Modern Celts, Celtiberians, Gallaecia, Celtic Tribes on Wikipedia
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 13-05-10 at 16:08.

  5. #5
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    R1b isn't only "celtic".

    Oh come now, why should any of this be a surprise to you?
    Cambria Red, may I remind you that our friend Haganus is the same guy who refuse to believe in a mongoloid admixture in North-Europe.

    Greetings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.
    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch. Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today. I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?

    It is well known that Iberia had one of the highest levels of Celtic settlement saturation in Europe. The historical and archaeological records are exceedingly clear on this. In fact, there is growing acceptance by many philologists and other linguists that Tartesseian (early SW Iberian language) was the first Celtic language. Moreover, much evidence exists indicating extended circulation among Celtic peoples from Iberia, the British Isles, Gaul and central Europe. See Cunliffe and J. Koch among others.
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 13-05-10 at 16:10. Reason: Repeated information

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    R1b isn't only "celtic".



    Cambria Red, may I remind you that our friend Haganus is the same guy who refuse to believe in a mongoloid admixture in North-Europe.

    Greetings.
    Oh yes, of course, that explains it all...

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.
    Why it is strange ? LOL..

    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch.
    Actually the fair hair in England or Holland comes mainly from the Germanic tribes, but the Celts were mostly dark-haired Central europeans

    Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today.
    They mixed the local Iberians. And what do you mean by "warlike like spaniards today" ??

    I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?
    Actually Iberia had probably the highest Celtic settlement saturation of all Western Europe, based on the archeological sites, and linguistics. You can start by reading some history...
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 13-05-10 at 18:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.


    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch. Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today. I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?
    Read Cunliffe, J Koch, Renfrew and others. The Celts may well have originated in SW Iberia (the Tartessians). Do some serious research. Enlighten yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    It is a strange thing that big parts of West-Europa have the haplogroup
    R1b. Even in the Iberian Peninsula till 90%!It is thought that the Celtic
    tribes brought the haplogroup R1b. It also is present in Ireland,West-France and Iberian Peninsula. So a very big number of Celts must have crossed the Pyrenaes to bring the haplogroup R1b.
    I cannot believe it. So about 80% of the Spaniards and Portgueses must have Celts as male ancestors and are related with the red haired Irishmen, Englishmen and faired haired Danes and Dutch. Who can explain me it? And what has happened with the ancient Iberian tribes? They ware warlike and macho men like the Spaniards today. I cannot imagine myself that they accepted the penetrance of Celtic men. Who can prove the penetrance of the Celts in the Iberian Peninsula?
    Here are a few links to make things a bit clearer for you:
    http://rokus01.wordpress.com
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Celtic_tribes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts_(modern)

    To access directly the last link first google "Modern Celts WIKI".

    The majority of Iberians (Spaniards and Portuguese) descend from Celts. Iberians are, in the main, Atlantic Celts.

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    R1b must have migrated from Nothern Africa through Spain.

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    The trooth is that we have two languages of R1b: Basque and Celtic.

    Who is original?

    One must have been assimlated to other.

    The first scenario, basque became aryanized and became celts, and in second scenario celts became basque.

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    As for the "celts", you must remember that higher density of "celtic" colonies in Spain is in the west where also is higher density of E-V13 balkanic haplogroup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    As for the "celts", you must remember that higher density of "celtic" colonies in Spain is in the west where also is higher density of E-V13 balkanic haplogroup.
    Originally, the most dense Celtic settlement occurred in central Iberia, not in the western end. Celticity in the west and north-west of the Peninsula was eventually influenced by migrations from Gaul, central Iberia and the Alpine regions.

    Of course, there was substantial circulation between Celtic peoples in the Atlantic Facade - Gaul, Iberia, Armorica, British Isles. From south to north and north to south. A good example: archaeologists have discovered numerous sites in Ireland containing ancient Iberian artifacts.

    I gather you have not reviewed recent research material pointing to Tartessos as a core point for Celticity.

    Read Cunliffe, Koch, Renfrew...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    R1b must have migrated from Nothern Africa through Spain.
    Is this supposed to be a joke ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    As for the "celts", you must remember that higher density of "celtic" colonies in Spain is in the west where also is higher density of E-V13 balkanic haplogroup.
    No, the higher density of Celtic settlement was in central Spain, in Castilla, but I fail to see what has E-V13 anythig to do with this...Even in western Iberia the E-V13 is very low 2-4%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    As for the "celts", you must remember that higher density of "celtic" colonies in Spain is in the west where also is higher density of E-V13 balkanic haplogroup.
    Excuse me, where are you getting this nonsense from?
    Last edited by Cambrius (The Red); 13-05-10 at 17:07.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Considering, if factual, that an Egyptian mummy was R1b - then no, i don't consider it a joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Considering, if factual, that an Egyptian mummy was R1b - then no, i don't consider it a joke.
    Things are hardly that simple...

    The R1b subclades recorded outside Europe are entirely different. Example: there are regions of the Cameroon with very high frequencies of R1b, but the subclades have no relation to those found in Europe.

    The so-called R1b "Celtic substratum subclade" common in Portugal and Spain is P312, with R-L21 being a major offshoot (found more in the British Isles).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Considering, if factual, that an Egyptian mummy was R1b - then no, i don't consider it a joke.
    What a simple mind that you are. The R1b found in Iberia is the same branch as in all Western Europe (M269) , and particuarly the Celtic P312 . The R1b in Egypt is found at 2%, and most of it is a different branch than the European, it is the M18 branch. The european R1b in Egypt (practically non-existant) came from the Greek and Roman colonizers, or some indo-europeans. R1b is indo-european not North Africa.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Egyptian mummies predate the Greeks. Can you read?

    Parts of Eastern Europe lack R1b completely. I would believe a dual migration of R1b from Anatolia through the Caucuses, as well from Northern Africa, through the Iberian Peninsula. As for the statement, which you appear to make with hostility, that Iberian and English R1b is the same - we agree upon. The consideration should be made as to the origin of the haplogroup. It's known that Northern Africa was light skinned, and and only became mixed with slaves when Egyptian civilization collapsed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinkles View Post
    Egyptian mummies predate the Greeks. Can you read?
    The R1b found in mummies can also be indo-european waves, can you read ?

    Parts of Eastern Europe lack R1b completely. I would believe a dual migration of R1b from Anatolia through the Caucuses, as well from Northern Africa, through the Iberian Peninsula.
    That's a funny theory, considering North Africa has even less R1b than Eastern Europe, which by the way it's true that it has low R1b, but it is not lacking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    R1b is indo-european not North Africa.
    And ancient berbers had also indo-europeans roots, Wilhelm. Sprinkles' point is actually valid though I don't agree with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    And ancient berbers had also indo-europeans roots, Wilhelm. Sprinkles' point is actually valid though I don't agree with it.
    He is basically saying that all Western Europe are descendants of North Africans, because some mummies were R1b. Wouldn't make more sene if we turn it around, and say the mummy was actually of indo-european descend ?
    btw, Berbers are mostly E-M81, not R1b.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    The trooth is that we have two languages of R1b: Basque and Celtic.

    Who is original?

    One must have been assimlated to other.

    The first scenario, basque became aryanized and became celts, and in second scenario celts became basque.
    Wrong. Basque is a pre-indoeuropean language. The R1b people spoke indo-european languages who split into the Germanic, Celtic, Latin languages

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