Haplogroup U and Ursula

[Porphyrogenita]

Does anyone know if everyone in U descended from Ursula? I am getting mixed results in my search. Some places suggest Ursula stands for all of U. Others suggest it is just one of the subclades. What is the "name" of the common ancestor of all U members if not Ursula?
Any other Uers on this forum? =)

[secherbernard]

Does anyone know if everyone in U descended from Ursula? I am getting mixed results in my search. Some places suggest Ursula stands for all of U. Others suggest it is just one of the subclades. What is the "name" of the common ancestor of all U members if not Ursula?
Any other Uers on this forum? =)

Ursula is the maternal ancestor of all european U. It's Bryan Sykes, a british geneticist who give her name in his book: "The seven daughter of Eve".

But all U are not european. My mtDNA haplogroup is U6, and the origin of U6 is north-west Africa, so I am not descending from Ursula.

What is your exact mtDNA haplogroup ?

[Porphyrogenita]

Ok, that makes sense. It looks like Ursula is used only for U5. So would you argue that only U5 are "European"?

I tested with the Genographic Project and they only told me U. I can narrow down a little bit, just based on where I'm from... but it's not specific enough. For eg, I'm pretty sure I am not U6, since it's most common in North Africa and I am from the Caucasus. Of course, I don't have enough information to know my actual subclade. I'd like to do further testing when I have the money.
We do have a common ancestor, and she lived in a certain region, whether some of us are considered "European" or not. I remember reading that U members outside of Europe are probably the result of reverse migration - meaning that at least some of your ancestors were in Europe at some point, no? (Although I also see a source claiming U6 descended from an R female. Why is it U6 then?)

I'd refer you to the links I'm using, but I'm not allowed until I've made 10 posts at this forum.

[secherbernard]

Ok, that makes sense. It looks like Ursula is used only for U5. So would you argue that only U5 are "European"?

I tested with the Genographic Project and they only told me U. I can narrow down a little bit, just based on where I'm from... but it's not specific enough. For eg, I'm pretty sure I am not U6, since it's most common in North Africa and I am from the Caucasus. Of course, I don't have enough information to know my actual subclade. I'd like to do further testing when I have the money.
We do have a common ancestor, and she lived in a certain region, whether some of us are considered "European" or not. I remember reading that U members outside of Europe are probably the result of reverse migration - meaning that at least some of your ancestors were in Europe at some point, no? (Although I also see a source claiming U6 descended from an R female. Why is it U6 then?)

I'd refer you to the links I'm using, but I'm not allowed until I've made 10 posts at this forum.

Has Genographic project give you your mtDNA mutations ? May be if you give me your mutations I can give you more accuracy about your haplogroup.
All U (not only U6) descend from a R female.

[Porphyrogenita]

Well, I know that U descends from R, but does that mean each subclade descends from R? I thought that "subclade" signified that it descends from one U female. I'm clearly missing something here...

Thanks for the offer. I did the GP about four years ago and lost my ID since and only remember that I was U. I asked them to trace my profile, but they don't keep the necessary records. =(

For some reason I also remember thinking I was in Ursula, which is probably why I kept thinking that Ursula stands for all of U. So maybe I'm in U5, since that's the Ursula one... It's mostly in Europe proper, but I did read it's been found at low frequencies in the Near East from reverse migration, so being from the Caucasus it's a definite possibility. I guess I'll have to pay for more genetic testing if I want to solve this mystery... Thanks again!

[Catchabus]

Well, I know that U descends from R, but does that mean each subclade descends from R? I thought that "subclade" signified that it descends from one U female. I'm clearly missing something here...

Thanks for the offer. I did the GP about four years ago and lost my ID since and only remember that I was U. I asked them to trace my profile, but they don't keep the necessary records. =(

For some reason I also remember thinking I was in Ursula, which is probably why I kept thinking that Ursula stands for all of U. So maybe I'm in U5, since that's the Ursula one... It's mostly in Europe proper, but I did read it's been found at low frequencies in the Near East from reverse migration, so being from the Caucasus it's a definite possibility. I guess I'll have to pay for more genetic testing if I want to solve this mystery... Thanks again!

Do you still have the packet NG sent with the DVD, there should be a tag with your ID number.

[Porphyrogenita]

I know, but I lost the box from the kit (either someone threw it away or it's somewhere in my mom's basement) Thanks for the suggestion.

I just emailed them and they said their test only gives general Haplogroup, which I remember anyway, so the sequence they gave probably wouldn't be enough for the subclade anyway. I'll do more detailed testing with another company as soon as I can spare the money.

[Maciamo]

I think that Sykes gave different names (all starting with U) for each subclade of U.

[Porphyrogenita]

Yeah he did. Ursula is the name for U5. My new question is: Does each "subclade" of U descend from a different R female or U female? U descends from R, but don't the subclades descend from the original U*?

[secherbernard]

Yeah he did. Ursula is the name for U5. My new question is: Does each "subclade" of U descend from a different R female or U female? U descends from R, but don't the subclades descend from the original U*?

See the following tree: http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_U.htm
All subclades of U descend from U*

[Yorkie]

From Bryan Sykes's literature:
U1 is 'Una'
U2 is 'Uta'
U3 is 'Uma'
U4 is 'Ulrike'
U5 is 'Ursula'

As secherbernard above says, all U descends from U*.
Given that you come from the Caucasus, I bet that you are most likely U5a1 like me. I am from England, and of English ancestry. My U5a1 has a distinct clustering around England, Denmark and Sweden. The Geneticist Martin Richards [Leeds Univ.] told me that my particular sequence was 'fairly rare' and found largely in Sweden. So, I am tempted to think that it came to Britain possibly via Viking invasions, though I am informed that the Vikings took few women with them. They stole plenty though..

[foryouandme]

i'm ursula. one of the oldest clans in europe. my ancestors would have encountered the neanderthals.

[sparkey]

i'm ursula. one of the oldest clans in europe. my ancestors would have encountered the neanderthals.

Yes, probably. U5 has certainly been dominant in Mesolithic European DNA. But it's probably an older haplogroup than the Cro-Magnons, so it's possible that certain subclades were later introductions. Unlikely, though, as European U5 has a general pattern of ancientness. It's always difficult to analyze mtDNA because we don't get the luxury of STR analyses with it. Do you know your subclade?

Greetings from a matrilineal descendant of Ulrike.

[foryouandme]

Do you know your subclade?

Yes, it's U5a.

[Knovas]

I think more or less all U's can be found in Europe. Probably U1 is the most uncommon, and I don't know so much about U4.

U2 (specially U2e subclade) is linked to the most ancient Europeans. A very interesting one.

[Knovas]

In recent days, I noticed something about U6.

I'm specially interested in U6a7a1, which I see is the maternal line of a Project Admin here having French ancestry. I also saw an individual of French-Acadian descent carrying the same subclade at 23andme, and I wondered about the origins of this clade. ¿Is it common in North Africa or it's exclusive to Europe (mainly France)?

By the way, U6d seems to be "recurrent" in Europeans considering the low presence. This one could have small apreciable presence in Spain, specially around the Northwest where I know one case. But also some Angloamericans belong to the same line, although in that cases it's not always possible to determine the recent origin.

Well, it's curious. Let's see if someone versed in U6 can show more information.