Help w/dad's Y-DNA assignment. I1-M253

[RedWolf]

Hi! (wave)

I had my dad test with FTDNA and he did the 37-marker test, he's also done 23andme. He's I1-M253, L22-, P109-. So based on that I've been told he's I1 ASgen. I'm trying to get a better understanding of what ASgen actually means. I know it's Anglo Saxon but does that mean just one of the early Germanic tribes? What story can be told from his values? Geographical info? I'm trying to figure out as much as I can from his DYS values since I don't have an actual paper trail to follow. My dad is Guatemalan-born, with Mayan ancestry, mixed with European.

Also- is there a way to differentiate between, the 3 origninal Germanic tribes in one's DNA? Is that possible quite yet?

His DYS values:

PANEL 1 (1-12)

DYS# 393,390,19*,391,385a,385b,426,388,439,389-1,392,389-2
Alleles 13, 23,14, 10, 13, 15, 11, 14, 11, 12, 11, 28

PANEL 2 (13-25)

DYS# 458,459a,459b,455,454,447,437,448,449,464a**, 464b**, 464c**, 464d**
Alleles 16, 8, 9, 8,11, 23, 16, 20, 28, 12, 14, 15, 16

PANEL 3 (26-37)

DYS# 460,GATA H4,YCA II a,YCA II b,456,607,576,570,CDY a,CDY b, 442, 438
Alleles 10, 10, 19, 21, 15, 14, 16, 19, 34, 36, 13, 10



I appreciate any input!

RedWolf

[LeBrok]

Welcome to Eupedia RedWolf. Sorry, I can't help you, I didn't even do my clad test yet, but I'm sure few brainiacs with lots of knowledge will show up and figure it out for you.
Great picture in avatar. I hope my daughters will adore me same way. :)

[Aristander]

I echo LeBrok's welcome. I am an amateur also, Maciamo who runs this site can certainly get you pointed in the right direction, he a several others here can probably help you out. I agree great picture of you and your Dad!

[Maciamo]

Hello Redwolf,

It is indeed possible to find European paternal lineages among Guatemalans, like pretty much anywhere in the Americas. I assume that you had a distant paternal ancestor who was Spanish, who himself was of Germanic descent (Visigothic, Suebi or even Frankish). I1 is definitely a Germanic haplogroup, but it is impossible to tell what ancient Germanic tribe it is associated with because Germanic tribes expanded fairly quickly from a small nucleus and were therefore all closely related at the time of the Germanic invasions.

[RedWolf]

Welcome to Eupedia RedWolf. Sorry, I can't help you, I didn't even do my clad test yet, but I'm sure few brainiacs with lots of knowledge will show up and figure it out for you.
Great picture in avatar. I hope my daughters will adore me same way. :)

Aww thanks! I'm sure they will! :)

[RedWolf]

Hello Redwolf,

It is indeed possible to find European paternal lineages among Guatemalans, like pretty much anywhere in the Americas. I assume that you had a distant paternal ancestor who was Spanish, who himself was of Germanic descent (Visigothic, Suebi or even Frankish). I1 is definitely a Germanic haplogroup, but it is impossible to tell what ancient Germanic tribe it is associated with because Germanic tribes expanded fairly quickly from a small nucleus and were therefore all closely related at the time of the Germanic invasions.

Thanks Maciamo! And thanks for the welcome guys!

So one could say my dad's totemic, ancestral dad was Germanic? That's pretty cool! I'm sure his ancestor would be amused and chuckle to see my little, Mayan looking 5'2 dad :)

One more question- do you know what ASgen means?

[Maciamo]

One more question- do you know what ASgen means?

Anglo-Saxon (general category).

[RedWolf]

Anglo-Saxon (general category).

Thanks!

Oh FTDNA at the 37 marker his country matches are- England and Ireland, we didn’t do 67 but I’m going to. At 25 marker- Iceland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

On 23andme we have cousins mostly from Denmark, Finland, Russia, one from Poland, Germany, Siberia, Latvia..then other fellow Guatemalan Mayans. Interestingly enough, our highest shares are with northern Europeans, such as Danish folks, not Spanish or Italian as I would have thought.

[AjBridges]

Hello Redwolf,

If you are L22- then you are possibly L258+ which has TMRCA origins in Finland 3,500 BC. You should consider also testing downstream SNP's.

[sparkey]

Hello Redwolf,

If you are L22- then you are possibly L258+ which has TMRCA origins in Finland 3,500 BC. You should consider also testing downstream SNP's.

L258 is downstream of L22, so L22- should not test L258. Also, "TMRCA origins in Finland 3,500 BC"? That seems far too old... its parent, L287 ("I1-Bothnian"), has a TMRCA of only about 2,000 YBP.

[AjBridges]

Sparky, thank you for correction, I misread an old map and low blood sugar at the time. Sorry Redwolf, Sparky is right.

Your DYS 390 is greater than 22 so that indicates "more than likely" Scandinavian connection so you need more markers tested to determine further.


Actually, the TMRCA for L22 and L287 is over 3000 yr BP. The I1d3 clade founder is about 2000 BP.

[sparkey]

Actually, the TMRCA for L22 and L287 is over 3000 yr BP. The I1d3 clade founder is about 2000 BP.

TMRCA = clade founder. You're talking about clade age, which is indeed something like 3100 YBP.

[AjBridges]

What? Please explain to me how the age of a clade is older than its founder?

[sparkey]

What? Please explain to me how the age of a clade is older than its founder?

The age of a clade is the time it split with its closest sibling. The "founder" in the sense of the most recent common ancestor generally comes later.

[AjBridges]

Hi Sparkey, sorry I didn't see your latest response and thank you for the clarification, but guess that I should point out that I was using Terry Robb's TMRCA calculations and know they differ from KN. so whom is right?

[sparkey]

Hi Sparkey, sorry I didn't see your latest response and thank you for the clarification, but guess that I should point out that I was using Terry Robb's TMRCA calculations and know they differ from KN. so whom is right?

I prefer Nordtvedt's method. It has a more convincing foundation, and corresponds better to other independently derived calculations using the same mutation rates (Klyosov's method in particular). Although, both have been wrong in the past, and are still getting refined.

One credit to Robb: He is a pioneer in SNP-based calculations, which will likely overtake STR-based calculations one of these days, once we get a lot more SNP data. His current SNP dating tree isn't very good yet, though.