Barbarian, do you actually think that Stalinist USSR were fair when they annexed Baltic states and then deported to Gulangs and killed thousands of people there?
|Forum||Europe Travel Guide||Facts & Trivia||Genetics||History||Linguistics|
|Eupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum|
anton why both US and Russia send their armies to georgia?
lebrok, as far as i can understand, no ex-USSR countries hate USSR. the education level is considerable high in those countries. and they could adopt to west easily after divorcing. russia seem to me fair wrt other superpowers in the history.
but, may be i am wrong.
Barbarian, do you actually think that Stalinist USSR were fair when they annexed Baltic states and then deported to Gulangs and killed thousands of people there?
first what is power and in what fields,
1, a power must have enough Energy, and minerals to produce extra, and to be less depended,
according that USA China Russia Brazil South-Africa etc could be powers
but not that much Germany or France, But the whole EU could be.
Energy can be oil, sun power Hydro power wind etc
2, Must have enough population to defend her shelf, or to invade
By that Kuwait is rich country but can not be super power,
3, must have solve all inner problems, and the politicians must not be quided by Bankers,
Hmmmm difficult. that makes countries like India or Turkey Giants with feet made of thin glass
4 must have an economy to be less spend than others, in that North Europe is far ahead,
Scandinavia and Germany are far ahead.
5 must have secrets of production so that other countries must depend to their products, (must be have secret techology) in that england and France are quite good,
But USA CHINA RUSSIA are far ahead, (Israel is very good to that)
6, people must be well educated so in difficult cases they must know how to react,
even Hygiene rules are included, (think SIDA problem in south Africa) that makes some new powers to be still behind.
So for me USA is a super power, Russia is a super Power, China is Super power
India Brazil Japan UK France Germany Pakistan and the whole EU are still powers
Turkey South-Africa Persia(Iran) Indonesia Colombia Australia Canada Korea can be powers.
also some African countries like Zair (Kongo) Egypt Nigeria Kenya if manage to handle Sun power and inner problems they can developed enough to become powers
again, may be i am wrong. i dont know much about USSR.
barbarian, you're missing one of most interesting and horrific periods of modern European history. Get few books dude.
I agree that some of central Asian countries wouldn't be economically and educationally better without soviets, though many of them had to die for it. On other side of the spectrum European soviet-block countries would be better off without the "red vampire".
If we are talking about Baltic states, plus Poland, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungary or Ukraine there is not much love for Russia here. We are still waiting even for apology. Anton doesn't believe that Russia did something wrong, and probably most Russians neither.
Castro is not saint, but it far not as bad as retard dictators as cannibal Jean-Bédel Bokassa or african dictator Idi Amin which had a special pool with crocodiles / aligators for those who disagreed with his policies or Saddam Hussein which had pool with sulfuric acid.
By the way, I hope you don't think that US never supported dictators?
Saddam Hussein was a big friend of America during his war with Iran, he got a lot of weapons from USA.
Or story with Mohammad Mossadeq, the first democratic president of Iran which was elected in august 1953 and overthrown with big participation of CIA and replaced by the dictator Shah Pahlavi. It was made just because Mossadeq was for nationalization of some oil enterprises. Democratically elected Salvado Allende in Chile is the same story, USA was very loyal to Augusto Pinochet because he did not want to nationalize American companies, unlike Allende. Where is democracy?
Or American ally absolute monarchy of Saudi Arabia where is still repressive dictatorship and laws like death penalty for change of religion (betraying of Islam), forced amputation of hands & legs for petty offenses and other savagery.
Yes you right,
CIA polices and support to crazy inhuman dictators is wrong and a bad thing,
Now let me see, what was Stalin?
was he a CIA dictator? hmmm quess not,
was he elected every 4-5 years by the people? hmmm quess not,
All i know is that he ordered many people to go to siberia and build cities in temperatures >-20 C
with no food and warm,
Yes he was Clever than Hitler, Hitler did not thought to put his enemies (Jews) to build cities,
he just killed them,
Stalin as smarter he let them die, by Building cities and villages in criminal conditions,
yes it is better than to send them swim in a pool full of crocodiles,
the case of Castro and Che is another story, simply he is not that mad (paraphron)
But Georgia is not a democracy of something, it is disguised authoritarian country. 1st president Gamsakhurdia lost his power because of revolution, second president Shevardnadze lost power because of "revolution of rose" in 2004, Mikhail Saakashvili will end his presidency in the same way if he will not stop to press the opposition. Georgia despite of American help is very poor and have big problems with unemployment, real incomes hardly grow.
Strongly negative attitude to USSR have all 3 Baltic states because they were annexed by force, it was decision of Stalin. I would not do it of course because that have not sense to transform your country in the prison of nations, no one knows today what head of this Georgian priest thought about.
Strongly negative attitude to USSR also have East Europe, especially the Czech Republic and Poland. Czech Republic because their uprising of 1968 year was suppressed by force. I think Soviets thought this is not acceptable to let one of the countries of the Warsaw bloc to go in free-swimming at the height of the Cold War. They feared a domino effect.
Eastern Europe and others should not forget that Soviets got Eastern Europe by accident, during the war against Nazism. They had not plans to invade Europe before WWII. In some sense the Soviet domination in Eastern Europe is a payment for the second world war. Czechoslovakia did absolutely nothing to protect themselves from Hitler. This is a retribution of fate in some sense.
In Ukraine western (to west from Kiev) part have negative attitude to USSR, but their is special case. Western Ukraine always was a pain in the ass. Before XIII century these lands were Orthodox Christians, but later when common historical state of Ukraine and Russia ceased to exist (because of the Mongol invasion), western Ukraine came under the influence of Poland. This part has replaced original Orthodox religion by Catholicism and lost contact with the roots. Western Ukraine was a part of Poland from XIV to early XVIII century; was a part of Austro-Hungarian Empire up to the WWI; became part of Poland again after WWI; again was annexed to Soviet Ukrainian Socialist republic after WWII; since 1991 year is a part of independent Ukraine. While Russia had absolutely other history, Russia defeated Mongols after a long period of payment of tribute and turned into a huge multi-cultural country.
Western Ukraine is a trouble because it's a center of far-right Nazi sentiments, extremely chauvinistic and aggressive, with national heroes like Stepan Bandera - mass murderer of Jews, Poles and Ukrainians. And of course they blame Russia for all their problems. Ask "Europa" user, sure she/he from that place.
Although, to name USSR as colonial power is hardly possible. Soviets helped a lot to own satellites, Ukraine during Soviet Era built aircraft carriers, merchant ships, submarines, had a lot of research institutes, powerful machinery production plants, huge amount of money, time & forces were spent on the development of Ukraine and other Soviet Republics. Ukraine before Soviet Union represented by itself a wild field overgrown with grass.
It's only in American Cold War propaganda movies Soviets always showed as maniacs with mental disorders which love to kill people for no reason, but reality is a "little bit" differ.
Belorussia, Eastern Ukraine, Central Asia have nothing against Soviet Union. Central Asia actually was saved from religious fundamentalism by Soviet atheism.
simply almost none,
Stalin Belongs to the groups of Bloody Dictators, (the ones you call CIA agents)
he used to see conspiracies everywhere.
while Castro is still under discuss, on how much Bloody he is as a dictator,
(it can't be so much innocent, but surely is more innocent than some bloody presidents)
yes the case of Ossetia is in modern debates,
But personally I don't know who to support,
the case from autonomistic groups there is Huge,
from chechnia to abhajia the place is powder, a time cloak bomb.
where oil pipes pass, bombs are on the way,
look at Levant, Balkans, Georgia, Ucraine,
OIL pipes or Gas pass under land,
thanks for advice lebrok. i will have some books:)) i need to do it. because my daughter is half russian
And all that Nabucco project have no progress for 10 years already, it looks like half-dead. In Gorbachev style - talking talking talking...
The same story with shale gas in Europe, bullshit & splurge
In problem of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, Russia just don't want that war between Armenia & Azerbaijan will begin again, this is a road to nowhere.
nabucco is a european project to create an alternative route to russia-ukraine line. if it fails, it shows that they are looking for some better solutions.
although i accept the idea of importance of russia for turkey, loosing georgia means loosing the the gate of caucasia, and turkic countries for turkey.
well that is a part of truth.
there are 2 pipe lines
Nabuco and South Stream
1 is Russian-Bulgarian-Greek-Italian project
2 is USA-Turkey most, Greek or Bulgarian, Fyrom,Kossovo Bosnia -Croatia project
the first from Abchaz (russia) to Burgas (Bulgaria) to Hgoumenitsa(Greece) and from there to Brindezi (Italia) and in Future to Naples so can move to spain
the second from Azerbaijan through Turkey to Greece or Bulgaria, from there to Fyrom, Kossovo, Bosnia-Croatia and then to Italy north,
the first although Greece has made and ready the pipes stoped due to Bulgaria demands,
the second was a great promise from USA with large quantities, but until today not even 1/10 of the year quantity has passed.
cause the tax earned by the pipes could save Greek economy,
The future is not in Caucas but in east mediterrean,
the more the oil prices raise the less expensive is the oil Turkey Greece Cyprus Israel Egypt Albania, Bulgaria
the first 'eye' of Gas and oil is among Greece Turkey and Cyprus east of Crete, west of Cyprus,
the second is Cyprus Israel Lebanon Turkey south of Adana,
the minors are Egypt Israel Cyprus
Greek Albanian of Cephallonia and Aulon (Vlore) (Its is Huge but very Deep,
it starts from south west Greece and goes up to El Basan)
Ahtopols (Bulagaria) to Semisounta (Samsus) North of Anatolian earthquake tectonical cut.
Billion of money were spend to build from Burgass to Adriatic pipe lines, and no oil and small m3 of gas passed,
the case of Georgia is just an impression, or to create unstability,
Russia is using (I think Novoroshisk is the name) another exit, while Georgia is using batum and Shochum, from Ossetia no body pass, yet problem is Ossetia.
the case of Ucraine is Gas pipes, and the Taurica ports, ex-USSR fleet bases are there. so indeed is a problem,
Taurica belong to Russia before Chruchev but he gave it to Ucraine,
the case of Russia with Turkey is another issue,
Russia only needs north Ossetia just to create a secure dinstance from its pipes, and unstability to Georgia,
Georgia needs Ossetia and Abchazia to create unstabilty to Russia,
But Georgia is a christian country, so the less the cristian teritories occupies, the more becomes islamic, so the dilemma is stronger,
puppets or mercenairies are everywhere.
Georgia needs USA so not to be again USSR country and more autonomus,
Georgia needs Russia so not be islamic and a new tottaly changed country,
Turkey wants to be the merchants of oil of the areas east of Caucas to Europe,
Nabuco is project that is not finished and never will be,
Nabuco was a USA promises just to stop South Stream
USA and turkey promises 11 000 000 m3 of Azerbaizan gas and oil that will pass, but 4 000 m3 gas are given each year,
simly in future the east mediterrean gas and oil will be in debates,
Barbarian you know that,
Turkey has casus Beli with Greece, Cyprus, for the 12 miles sea zone, and is not in good with Iesrael,
From my observation European cooperation in science and research is far better than in politics or sometimes even economy. I almost dare to say, on a global level, THIS is EU's greatest strength! When it comes to that, EU is still far ahead of, for example, China.
I agree, they don't know how to make planes for example...China's secret technology is largely comprised of stealing and plagiatism
There are also social innovations, but yes, it makes us stronger (Project "ITER" for example)...THIS is EU's greatest strength!
North Stream - 55
South Stream - 63
When South Stream will be finished in 2018 through Ukraine will be transported only 5-10% of gas.
But still Russia has the secrets of MIR and many space secrets,
and China makes expirements that are not anounced, At least 2 kinds of flew (whatever) came from china,
we don't know how their laboratories are safe, and what kinds of expirements they have,
remember what had happened when a ship, airplanes carrier was sold to china....
and how Turkish wanted to not allow it pass the narrows.
Europe's secret today are mostly in pharmaceutical, medicines, etc,
USA is promoting the myth of area 51 I think, an area that aliens etc...
Russia was promoting at least guys like zirinifski (whatever) of having super guns.
still secrets of Russian technology like Kursk submarine are sunk in the bottom of the sea,
while myths say about laboratories like area51 east of Urals,
China needs no myths, simply forbids you to go to many areas,
you need license etc, only that can allow myths to go on,
to understand more theory and practise have something that is more,
technologia and technognosia
technologia for example is computer,
technognosia is how to create a microchip,
how many countries have theory and work on computers, technologia
but how many have technognosia to produce a ram.
well we all know in theory how an anti-tetanic is made,
but how many of us can produce anti-tetanic,
remember the case of selling a disarmed air-carrier to china by Russians was considered not a sell of iron, not a sell of a ship, but a sell of technologia to become techognosia!!!!!.
SOuth Stream is finished in Balkans, and gas could be transported by Ships,
simply Bulgaria anounced that stopes progress and plan,
Nabuco is never to be finished,
the only gas that is entered Greece until today is mainly by
Gazprom gave only 2,5 *10^9 m3 until today,
while Botas although promised 0,75 *10^9 m3 untill now few m3 passed.
I don't give much credit to other conspiracy theories such as hidden mutant armies underneath of Siberia, technology from aliens found in New Mexico or robot warriors from China.
Well, it's quite simple.. The Europeans don't want a superpower, because that superpower uses force to poke their noses internally and externally.
Even today my call for communalism is proven to be right!
Within the EU zone trade is already at a too large scale!
People in Germany suffer from illness because cucumbers were produced in some other EU country, with infected manure.
Let every country produce it's own food.
And that's directly in contrast with the idea of a superpower!
well you may have a point to that,
France had a space project, Ariane i think was the name,
Satelites mostly are made in Sweden-Finland etc,
but lets see? parts?
who makes RAMS CPU today,
and from what material??
I heard about an earth(sand) that is only in China and is the main matterial of all computers in the world, I maybe am wrong, but????
Superpower does not mean many Nuclear, or missiles, etc,
Ebola virus can be more usefull than 000 of Neutral bombs !!!!!
on the other hand
you may have right,
many of the 'Secrets' could be 'far' and exaggerate,
i am not goin back to correct it,
just put out the china and about Russia hmmm its up to you,
I wanted mostly to put some rules on what kinds of fields a country can be Super power and in what can be just a power, Hope you understand my view, and about china, ...ok lets put it out of number 5
All I know that is like bannanas and other fruits,
they are cutten at a lenght of 4-8 cm, and spay them with water and hormones,
in 2-4 days they reach sizes like that at market,
I know about water melons,
simply when we cut them in makedonia are white, and bitter like poison, (not even chicken eat them)
and when they are sold in Germany are red,
cause market laws demand to be good for at least 4-6 days in market, and should be ready that,
so market laws demand to be cut at least 10 days before become mature,
travel for 2-3 days, stay in storage for 1-5 days with hormones, stabilizers etc. and then to be sold,
according the demands of the market, and should be 3-4 days in a market store,
think about bannanas,
Mzungu mchagga is right, science in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union received a huge amount of damage. Simply no one was interested in science and many talented people left post-Soviet space in 90s. But this does not mean that nothing develops. 20 years are gone already.
Also I think Russia saved some advantage in nuclear energy and will go further. There is a project of waste-free nuclear power plant based on fast-reactor. It works on the waste of conventional nuclear power plants.
Now when the accident occurred at Fukushima many countries will froze own nuclear projects, or even cancel them. But not here.
New rocket from Angara family prepares to replace outdated rockets in 2012-2013
Network of satellite monitoring is almost ready
Slowly but steadily Russia creeps out of the pile of feces
There is partnership with European space agency, ESA using old Soviet Soyuz rockets for launching of satellites for the Galileo in French Guiana spaceport