How Middle Eastern Milk Drinkers Conquered Europe

Sounds like you have the african form of lactose tolerance which is not as complete, or maybe you just had bowel issues you outgrew, which is common. Probably more common than celtic having african lactose form.
I have no African ancestry in me, yet interesting enough I used to vomit alot in the car after drinking milk, my Biological Dad even used my milk weakness as a decoy to get revenge on my mom as an infant. Is there a dna company who can detect Neolithic Dna in my ancestry? :/ Refering to Reinart's remark also
 
Major mistake in the title: they were not Middle Eastern Milk Drinkers, but Eastern European Milk Drinkers (from southern Russia and Ukraine). One of the best proofs is that Middle Easterners are still mostly lactose intolerant, in spite of 10,000 years of domestication. Modern Russians are less lactose tolerant than central and northern Europeans because they have a substantial Mongoloid admixture (Siberian and East Asian) dating at least from the imperial expansion of Russia from the 15th century onward. The Communist period also encouraged movement of people between the various parts of the USSR, bringing lactose intolerant Mongoloid people in Caucasian Russia. The fact remains that pure Caucasian Russians are just as lactose tolerant as other northern Europeans.

Maciamo, I very often (almost always) appreciate your analysis spirit but here I disagree a bit concerning Russians: or we are not speaking about european Russians? the mongoloid element in them are very very scarce (3-6% I think) so it cannot explain a too important loss of lactose-tolerance -
to go back to the thread, I found this 'Spiegel' article a lot "fairy tale"-like (as often in diaries); I think that lactose tolerance could be born in different places and selected by natural pressure in different places, but always among breeding populations (it is not very new, I know!) - the mutationS can occur in near-eastern descendants as well as among previous hunter-gatherers of old Europe - (I red somewhere that a subsahrian african breeding tribe had this alctose-tolerance: an exception in Africa? apparently) -
what seems true is that agriculturist Near-Easterners did not mix at first in Europe; but after?
above I said: breeding (elevage) obligatory for selection: right! selection need breeding culture - but breeding culture does not imply selection - the mutation+selection gave (hazard) an advantage, surely enough, nevertheless -
uneasy to conclude for details: some advantageous genes among Near-Easterners but selected after by changing way of drinking, and passed progressively to others by late mixings, or some advantageous genes among "Old Europeans" selected lately too by late adoption of agriculture? steppic peoples could very well have
this or ones of these mutation OK but the good question (already made) is: thave Irish people and British people a high lactose tolerance
just for contradiction!
 
Maciamo, I very often (almost always) appreciate your analysis spirit but here I disagree a bit concerning Russians: or we are not speaking about european Russians? the mongoloid element in them are very very scarce (3-6% I think) so it cannot explain a too important loss of lactose-tolerance -
to go back to the thread, I found this 'Spiegel' article a lot "fairy tale"-like (as often in diaries); I think that lactose tolerance could be born in different places and selected by natural pressure in different places, but always among breeding populations (it is not very new, I know!) - the mutationS can occur in near-eastern descendants as well as among previous hunter-gatherers of old Europe - (I red somewhere that a subsahrian african breeding tribe had this alctose-tolerance: an exception in Africa? apparently) -
what seems true is that agriculturist Near-Easterners did not mix at first in Europe; but after?
above I said: breeding (elevage) obligatory for selection: right! selection need breeding culture - but breeding culture does not imply selection - the mutation+selection gave (hazard) an advantage, surely enough, nevertheless -
uneasy to conclude for details: some advantageous genes among Near-Easterners but selected after by changing way of drinking, and passed progressively to others by late mixings, or some advantageous genes among "Old Europeans" selected lately too by late adoption of agriculture? steppic peoples could very well have
this or ones of these mutation OK but the good question (already made) is: thave Irish people and British people a high lactose tolerance
just for contradiction!

New elements have come to light since I posted this. Lactase persistence genes have been found among Neolithic populations in Sweden (Funnelbeaker culture and Pitted ware) and Spain (Cardium Pottery) as early as 3000 BCE. The Lactase persistence gene therefore could not have originated in the Steppe, but it isn't certain whether the mutation first appeared among Paleolithic/Mesolithic Europeans or in the Middle East.

Mutations take place completely haphazardly. They don't happen for a reason. So there is no reason to believe that lactose tolerance necessarily originated among milk-drinking animal herders. Actually it is possible that the mutation itself is much much older than domestication, perhaps as much as 20,000 to 50,000 years old. Useless without domesticated cattle or goats the mutation would have stayed dormant and would not have been actively selected for its health benefits until the Neolithic.

If we suddenly see lactase persistence genes pop up in Neolithic Spain and Sweden, in two regions sharing a similar Paleolithic ancestry (Y-haplogroup I + mt-haplogroup U4 and U5) I would be inclined to think that the mutation was already present, even at low frequencies, among most Mesolithic European populations, and that when Neolithic farmers arrived and started to mix with them the selection process started.

If that is the case, lactase persistence gene could have been present in the Mesolithic from Iberia to European Russia, across western, northern and eastern Europe. Thus it could also have been picked up by R1b people once they moved into the Steppe and mixed with indigenous people (mtDNA U4 and U5).

This is the best explanation I have for the fact that lactose tolerance is so much more prevalent nowadays among northern Europeans and especially Scandinavians, who descend heavily from Mesolithic Europeans, and is virtually absent from the Middle East and rare in the Balkans. Since R1b is Middle Eastern in origin but mixed early with northern Europeans in the steppes, then again in central, western and northern Europe, the percentage of people with the lactase persistence gene would have increased as they gradually absorbed indigenous European DNA.
 
Roman authors recorded that the people of northern Europe, particularly Britain and Germany, drank unprocessed milk. This corresponds very closely with modern European distributions of lactose intolerance, where the people of Britain, Germany, and Scandinavia have a high tolerance, and those of southern Europe, especially Italy, have a lower tolerance
China is particularly notable as a place of poor tolerance, whereas in Mongolia and the Asian steppes mare milk is drunk regularly. This tolerance is thought to be advantageous, as the nomads do not settle down long enough to process mature cheese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
 
New elements have come to light since I posted this. Lactase persistence genes have been found among Neolithic populations in Sweden (Funnelbeaker culture and Pitted ware) and Spain (Cardium Pottery) as early as 3000 BCE. The Lactase persistence gene therefore could not have originated in the Steppe, but it isn't certain whether the mutation first appeared among Paleolithic/Mesolithic Europeans or in the Middle East.

Mutations take place completely haphazardly. They don't happen for a reason. So there is no reason to believe that lactose tolerance necessarily originated among milk-drinking animal herders. Actually it is possible that the mutation itself is much much older than domestication, perhaps as much as 20,000 to 50,000 years old. Useless without domesticated cattle or goats the mutation would have stayed dormant and would not have been actively selected for its health benefits until the Neolithic.

If we suddenly see lactase persistence genes pop up in Neolithic Spain and Sweden, in two regions sharing a similar Paleolithic ancestry (Y-haplogroup I + mt-haplogroup U4 and U5) I would be inclined to think that the mutation was already present, even at low frequencies, among most Mesolithic European populations, and that when Neolithic farmers arrived and started to mix with them the selection process started.

If that is the case, lactase persistence gene could have been present in the Mesolithic from Iberia to European Russia, across western, northern and eastern Europe. Thus it could also have been picked up by R1b people once they moved into the Steppe and mixed with indigenous people (mtDNA U4 and U5).

This is the best explanation I have for the fact that lactose tolerance is so much more prevalent nowadays among northern Europeans and especially Scandinavians, who descend heavily from Mesolithic Europeans, and is virtually absent from the Middle East and rare in the Balkans. Since R1b is Middle Eastern in origin but mixed early with northern Europeans in the steppes, then again in central, western and northern Europe, the percentage of people with the lactase persistence gene would have increased as they gradually absorbed indigenous European DNA.

Very good points Maciamo. Here is a map of Lactose intolernce around the world
550px-Laktoseintoleranz-1.svg.png


In Europe it shows huge similarity in how globe13 north Euro(aka Mesolithic - Paleolithic European) is distributed. Which is more evidence that it is from Mesolithic and probably Paleolithic Europeans. doesn't matter if they did not have milk they still were able to drink it. I think it may be a European thing going back to the common family of all Europeans in the Paleolithic age. For Europeans it may be used as a way to find how much European blood they actulley have. It is hard to believe so many people in the world cant drink milk. my area is mainly non white and i have seen them drink milk just fine.
 
New elements have come to light since I posted this. Lactase persistence genes have been found among Neolithic populations in Sweden (Funnelbeaker culture and Pitted ware) and Spain (Cardium Pottery) as early as 3000 BCE. The Lactase persistence gene therefore could not have originated in the Steppe, but it isn't certain whether the mutation first appeared among Paleolithic/Mesolithic Europeans or in the Middle East.

Mutations take place completely haphazardly. They don't happen for a reason. So there is no reason to believe that lactose tolerance necessarily originated among milk-drinking animal herders. Actually it is possible that the mutation itself is much much older than domestication, perhaps as much as 20,000 to 50,000 years old. Useless without domesticated cattle or goats the mutation would have stayed dormant and would not have been actively selected for its health benefits until the Neolithic.

If we suddenly see lactase persistence genes pop up in Neolithic Spain and Sweden, in two regions sharing a similar Paleolithic ancestry (Y-haplogroup I + mt-haplogroup U4 and U5) I would be inclined to think that the mutation was already present, even at low frequencies, among most Mesolithic European populations, and that when Neolithic farmers arrived and started to mix with them the selection process started.

If that is the case, lactase persistence gene could have been present in the Mesolithic from Iberia to European Russia, across western, northern and eastern Europe. Thus it could also have been picked up by R1b people once they moved into the Steppe and mixed with indigenous people (mtDNA U4 and U5).

This is the best explanation I have for the fact that lactose tolerance is so much more prevalent nowadays among northern Europeans and especially Scandinavians, who descend heavily from Mesolithic Europeans, and is virtually absent from the Middle East and rare in the Balkans. Since R1b is Middle Eastern in origin but mixed early with northern Europeans in the steppes, then again in central, western and northern Europe, the percentage of people with the lactase persistence gene would have increased as they gradually absorbed indigenous European DNA.


Maybe I'm being too much of a lawyer here, but there's a simpler explanation as to why Cardium or Funnelbeaker people in the vicinity of maybe 3000 to 2900 B.C. have lactose genes. The Funnelbeakers were slowly overtaken with influences from the East and the Cardium people had direct contract with the early Beakers.

I suppose it's possible that Neolithic people of Continenetal Europe could have had a small percentage of lactose tolerence genes, and based on current tolerance in modern Southern Europe would make it seem that Beaker/Corded Ware folk were primarily responsible for what is seen on the current lactose maps.

I agree with your point that gene expression is usually random, but your recent expanded map of R1b throughout its total domain almost neatly shows the expansion of cattle, specifically the Taurus descended and Brahman/Zebu varities. R1b roughly overlays total lactose tolerence in the human population. In Northwest Europe, where lactose tolerence is greatest, also happens to be where cattle diversity and lactose alles are the most diverse.

All Northwest European cattle varities descend from the Anatolian Bos Taurus, not European Aurochs.


And doesn't the Gedrosian map look similar?????
 

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