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Thread: Cro-Magnon & Neanderthal made bread and vegetable soup

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    Arrow Cro-Magnon & Neanderthal made bread and vegetable soup



    Cavemen Ground Flour, Prepped Veggies

    * People started grinding flour at least 30,000 years ago, new evidence suggests.
    * Prehistoric humans, and possibly Neanderthals, likely made bread and soup out of cattail flour.
    * The findings suggest that starches and vegetables played an important role in Paleolithic diets.
    There are still (lay) people out there who think that cavemen were idiotic brutes who spoke in grunts and only survived through hunting. This should be enough evidence to demonstrate that people 30,000 years ago had similar capabilities to modern humans.

    The way I see it is that Homo Sapiens first came across Neanderthals when they entered the Middle East some 50,000 years ago. A low degree of admixture might already have taken place there, although it would have been minimal (1-2%). The slightly hybridised Homo Sapiens then penetrated Europe and Central Asia 40,000 years ago, where they further interbred with Neanderthals. The new hybrids had inherited perhaps up to 10% of Neanderthalian DNA (later diluted by Near Eastern farmers), and became a new human race known as Cro-Magnons.

    Neanderthals had a more developed visual cortex than Homo Sapiens, but Homo Sapiens had a bigger frontal cortex. Hybrids who inherited from both (dolichocephalic with high foreheads) would be uniquely gifted. It is around this time that the world's greatest cave paintings appear, in places like Lascaux. The world's oldest musical instruments as well as the world's oldest pottery, were found in central Europe and date back from 25,000 to 35,000 years ago.

    Now, it appears that Cro-Magnons could already make flour from wild cereals and make bread 30,000 years ago. They were not merely meat-eaters, but cooked vegetables and ate bread. In other words, they already had a quasi-modern diet by European standards, except for dairy products that would be introduced by the pastoral Indo-Europeans some 6,000 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Cavemen Ground Flour, Prepped Veggies



    There are still (lay) people out there who think that cavemen were idiotic brutes who spoke in grunts and only survived through hunting. This should be enough evidence to demonstrate that people 30,000 years ago had similar capabilities to modern humans.

    The way I see it is that Homo Sapiens first came across Neanderthals when they entered the Middle East some 50,000 years ago. A low degree of admixture might already have taken place there, although it would have been minimal (1-2%). The slightly hybridised Homo Sapiens then penetrated Europe and Central Asia 40,000 years ago, where they further interbred with Neanderthals. The new hybrids had inherited perhaps up to 10% of Neanderthalian DNA (later diluted by Near Eastern farmers), and became a new human race known as Cro-Magnons.

    Neanderthals had a more developed visual cortex than Homo Sapiens, but Homo Sapiens had a bigger frontal cortex. Hybrids who inherited from both (dolichocephalic with high foreheads) would be uniquely gifted. It is around this time that the world's greatest cave paintings appear, in places like Lascaux. The world's oldest musical instruments as well as the world's oldest pottery, were found in central Europe and date back from 25,000 to 35,000 years ago.

    Now, it appears that Cro-Magnons could already make flour from wild cereals and make bread 30,000 years ago. They were not merely meat-eaters, but cooked vegetables and ate bread. In other words, they already had a quasi-modern diet by European standards, except for dairy products that would be introduced by the pastoral Indo-Europeans some 6,000 years ago.
    They may indeed have had 'similar capabilities to modern humans' , and on reflection, perhaps the Neanderthals were seen as a distinct threat in terms of access to resources- maybe 'too similar' in fact. Our species was undoubtedly lighter on its feet, as Robin McKie has suggested. However, some such as Oxford's Paul Pettit [archaeologist] suggest a darker scenario. For Pettit, where modern humans and Neanderthals could not co-exist, the disappearance of the latter may have been the result of the human species' first and most successful, deliberate campaign of genocide. We tend to be rather good at that sort of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkie View Post
    They may indeed have had 'similar capabilities to modern humans' , and on reflection, perhaps the Neanderthals were seen as a distinct threat in terms of access to resources- maybe 'too similar' in fact. Our species was undoubtedly lighter on its feet, as Robin McKie has suggested. However, some such as Oxford's Paul Pettit [archaeologist] suggest a darker scenario. For Pettit, where modern humans and Neanderthals could not co-exist, the disappearance of the latter may have been the result of the human species' first and most successful, deliberate campaign of genocide. We tend to be rather good at that sort of thing.
    Nevertheless, the completion of the Neanderthal genome this year has brought undeniable proof that modern Europeans carry up to 5% of Neanderthal genes in them. Cro-Magnons would certainly have had more, because modern Europeans received genes from Near Eastern immigrants from the Neolithic onwards, that surely lowered the percentage of Neanderthal DNA.

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    Very interesting article, I was getting ready to post another link to the same finding that I found on Wired.com. The Discovery link is much more informative and goes into more detail, but just for completeness here is the Wired link.
    Ancient Grains Show Paleolithic Diet Was More Than Meat
    The thing that I very interesting in the Discovery link was the details on the effort that it took to process what we consider unconventional foods into an edible state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Nevertheless, the completion of the Neanderthal genome this year has brought undeniable proof that modern Europeans carry up to 5% of Neanderthal genes in them. Cro-Magnons would certainly have had more, because modern Europeans received genes from Near Eastern immigrants from the Neolithic onwards, that surely lowered the percentage of Neanderthal DNA.
    I wonder if there is an intra-continental breakdown on that 5% available? I have long suspected that the people of Mansfield in Nottinghamshire, England have a sizeable dash of Neanderthal dna. The womenfolk appear to have Steatopygia too.

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    Interesting news and in line with my understanding.
    I'm just wondering how they made the soup or boiled veggies if they didn't have metal kettle or pottery. Maybe they just roasted veggies on the rock.

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    No cereals were found

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Cavemen Ground Flour, Prepped Veggies

    Now, it appears that Cro-Magnons could already make flour from wild cereals and make bread 30,000 years ago.
    Nope. The article did not state that at all. No cereals. The abstract refers to small particles of starch rather than cereal grains. Of the nine plants mentioned one is a seed in the sedge family, the rest roots and bulbs.

    There is a blog post that has a chart from the study listing just what plant matter they found evidence of. It is not my blog. But I'm not allowed to post its URL. You can find it at the huntgatherlove dot com blog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interesting news and in line with my understanding.
    I'm just wondering how they made the soup or boiled veggies if they didn't have metal kettle or pottery. Maybe they just roasted veggies on the rock.
    They probably used the same method that Native Americans did before they had pottery or metal pots. They would take a piece of animal hide and make a sack out of it, fill it with whatever they were stewing or cooking and water, then heat stones in the fire and drop then into the liquid.
    Many years ago we tried this in an Anthropology lab I took when I was in University. It worked amazingly well it did not take too long to get the water up to boiling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Wiss View Post
    Nope. The article did not state that at all. No cereals. The abstract refers to small particles of starch rather than cereal grains. Of the nine plants mentioned one is a seed in the sedge family, the rest roots and bulbs.

    There is a blog post that has a chart from the study listing just what plant matter they found evidence of. It is not my blog. But I'm not allowed to post its URL. You can find it at the huntgatherlove dot com blog.
    Ok, my mistake. Thanks for the precision.

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    If you don't like sprouts you can blame your neanderthal grandma. :)

    They have found that a gene in modern humans that makes some people dislike a bitter chemical called phenylthiocarbamide, or PTC, was also present in Neanderthals hundreds of thousands of years ago.

    Read more at: http://phys.org/news169297576.html#jCp

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    If you don't like sprouts you can blame your neanderthal grandma. :)

    Interesting... And it is very hard to get children to eat green vegetables such as sprouts and broccoli. They usually wont even try them and often if they do, spit it out saying it tastes bad. Most bitter substances, as we know, may be poisonous..so it seems this "awareness" mechanism has passed on down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    ...The way I see it is that Homo Sapiens first came across Neanderthals when they entered the Middle East some 50,000 years ago.... Hybrids who inherited from both (dolichocephalic with high foreheads) would be uniquely gifted. It is around this time that the world's greatest cave paintings appear, in places like Lascaux...
    Hmmm... where ever have I heard of this before? It sounds vaguely familiar. I wish I had thought of such a thing as hybrid theory, but I am but a dolt that knows nothing of say the French and their experiences during WWII. Must put my helmet back on... I have a whole bunch of windows to lick before dinner.

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    And please disregard my Baron status... I have to come up with a clever name but haven't had any luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Interesting... And it is very hard to get children to eat green vegetables such as sprouts and broccoli. They usually wont even try them and often if they do, spit it out saying it tastes bad. Most bitter substances, as we know, may be poisonous..so it seems this "awareness" mechanism has passed on down.
    Never liked them either, too bitter for me, and not much pleasant flavour to force myself. But I can eat radishes and onions with pleasure, though they have strong taste and unpleasant flavor to many people.

    Interesting is situation of potatoes and tomatoes. Not being native to Europe they are liked by all people here. I can't explain it better than them containing a lot of Universal Goodness. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicquarreler View Post
    And please disregard my Baron status... I have to come up with a clever name but haven't had any luck.
    How about Baron from barbaric lands, Barbaron.

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    Got a good chuckle out of that one. Nothing fits better than "Nordicwarrior"... Decisions, decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Never liked them either, too bitter for me, and not much pleasant flavour to force myself. )
    The trick is to boil them with a teaspoon of brown sugar..makes them much nicer :)

    @NORDICQUARRELER.. just keep your name and baron status..much easier.


    Apologies for going off-topic.

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