South versus North Korea.

[LeBrok]

Oops they did it again. Another unprovoked attack on South Korea by the North Korean's communist regime has happened recently in form of artillery and rocket barrage, aimed at one of South Korea's island.

Can someone explain why South Korea didn't finish North Korea few years ago???!!!

The time was right before North Korea got nuclear weapon capabilities, and after Chinese government opened to the west, a decade or so ago. Now it is a check mate, North Korea can molest South, and South can't do much about this, because North has the atom bomb and ballistic rockets for it.
What is South doing now? Nothing much, it has to take the abuse and pray that North won't be crazy enough to use the atom bomb. South is trapped in a role of good wife from arranged marriage, married to a violent drunk husband. What a sweet future.

For years I was angry at South Korea (SK) for letting the North Korea (NK) regime commit countless crimes against NK’s population. They went through a horrific famine, and probably through many smaller ones too. It's estimating that million people died because of it. All are the direct causes of North regime actions. Just for this the international community should have warranted a military strike to save people from this genocide, and free poor soles from the tyrant. If world doesn't care, South Koreans should do it alone to save their cousins.
On top of it NK live/survive stripped of human rights, freedoms and privacy, the common things we enjoy every day. They are treated worse than good farmer treats his animals.
They have the biggest forced labour camps on this planet, where the goal is not the work, but exhausting and killing "uncooperative" citizens. There might be as much as one in 10 of adult population in these camps. It is even hard to estimate how many people died in prisons or just were executed by the regime.
North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world, but we know, they would do way better giving them a chance. South proved how well Koreans can live giving them better political and economic systems. (I know we can criticize South for many things, but let's not go into the irrelevant details now).

As I mentioned before, SK had a great chance to finish NK’s regime, and in my mind with relatively small casualties and very quickly. The time was right about 5 years ago, maybe 7. Here is why:
1. North Korean's biggest alley China, turned more pro west, and stopped caring about crazy NK’s regime much. NK became not important politically nor economically alley. I don’t think China would risk war with west for NK.
2. NK didn't have atom bomb yet.
2a. SK knew about NK’s enquiring technology to built the bomb for long time.
3. SK is many times stronger militarily with huge production capabilities, with way better technology in every aspect. NK wouldn't even know what hit them.
4. NK's army, though strong in numbers, has outdated military equipment which is falling apart from disrepair. There is constant shortage of fuel, and parts, so they wouldn't fight too long. Probably only 1 in 10 tanks and airplanes are battle ready.
5. NK's soldiers are hungry and with low moral. If SK strikes and gets inside North, most (if not all) army will surrender, like Iraqis during first desert war. Even faster, after all, their rich cousins came to liberate and feed them.
(Sorry for the digression, but I still can't forgive old Bush for not finishing Sadam back then, and betraying Iraqi people in the process.)
6. I’m sure the Kim Jong-Il would be captured by his own generals ready to switch sides, and either executed like Ceausescu, or giving away to the South. If Kim’s quick enough he would fly to China asking for asylum, or gets smuggled farther to Cuba.

Most likely the war wouldn’t last more than 2 days with very few casualties. Possibly fewer than is killed every day by the NK regime.
There is always a risk that crazy Kim would unleash rockets on SK cities just to punish them in ultimate desperation. On other hand SK should have enough technological superiority to destroy them before they got launched or mid air.

But……….the NK has the nukes now!
Now what?
SK missed the chance, and they have to sit quietly and suffer,……idiots. Should I mention again, that their cousins are dying from hunger, torture, humiliation and desperation, and crazy Kim can press nuke button at will?

[Sirius2b]

Ah, @LeBrok... The thread you just posted is extremely interesting.

However, it is regretable that in this occasion, you and I think extreme opposite directions.

I will start by saying, that I do not hate South Koreans. As a matter of fact, near to where I live there is a "Daewoo" factory, and several of my neighbours are precisely South Koreans... and I have to say, they are the most nice and decent people that I ever met.

Now, I do not hate North Korea. I agree that they have a lifestyle and a regime that is very different.

Being different and not playing the game of the West, they are subject (don't doubt it) to continued aggression and bad press from the West. Some of this bad press is well earned, and another big part is not.

You say that South Korea "missed the opportunity" to "liberate" the North in the past. I don't know if you have knowledge of how well armed conventionally, were and are the North Koreans and how can they bomb Seoul, and in fact, all the 50 miles strip along the DMZ, were precisely aprox. 50% of the total population of South Korea lives.

Great vision indeed, had the North Korean Regime, in arming itself with nuclear weapons, lest they will be "liberated and democratisized" Iraq-style. And the "collateral damage" in the North Koran side, will probably deserve as little space in the western press as the 1,000,000 murdered Iraqis.

I hope Iran will also take note, and catch up.

The bad press about North Korea will remain the same. But its people will not be destituted and murdered so easily by "The Democracy"...

And some people, of course, lament that.

Finally, I post here some good music...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qGY1BvE-0g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnbUMjzyb7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXrbDJHkpjE

And some good cartoons...

YouTube - Squirrel and Hedgehog clips
YouTube - North Korea Animation 5-1 ()
YouTube - North Korea Animation 5-2

(I cannot wait to see another chapter of 다람이와 고슴도치 )

[Sirius2b]

Regarding to the claim that "North Korea is one of the most poor countries on Earth"... I would say that has to be looked at, with more detail.

For starters, the literacy in NK is 99+

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_North_Korea

... and somewhere I read, that the knowledge of Math of the average NK high school student was way higher than that of the US student, even greater than some western european countries.

You see photos of Pyongyang and you see that in general is a tidy city.

http://www.google.com.mx/images?hl=e...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Definitely, could not be compared with REAL poor countries in, say, Western Africa... but I think that a French have to know that.

Definitely not "one of the most poor countries in the world".

That is what I call "western Propaganda".

[Regulus]

It would actually be an understatement to refer to North Korea as poor. There was a point before the 60s when the average income of NK was higher than that of a person in the south. Rapid industrialization put an end to that, and by the 80s the south was way, way ahead.
Pyongyang is of course their flagship city. They keep it clean, but cannot hide the empty streets and lack of anything that looks like bustle. Satellites at night clearly show the results of their need to turn off electricity to entire regions. They got by without collapsing when the USSR could help them by keeping them in their ecomonic orbit, but those days are long gone. They are poor beyond measure and lack money or credit to even buy enough food to keep their people from literally starving.

Attributing facts to "western propaganda" is kind of like saying that Americans were always really nice to Native Americans and that anything to the contrary is indigenous propaganda.

[NewEngland]

Serius2b are you still in highschool? I sence a little nieve hostility from you toward the west, get at the back of a very long line son. NK doesnt have great vision and never has. If we hadnt gone there in the 50s all of Korea would be completely unprosperous and hopelessly miserable. There are some people in this world who shouldnt have WMDs, and if you say Iran should have them then maybe you think everybody ought to have them, that sounds like a real Utopia to me. You see the current nuke weilders have this thing called mutualy assured destruction, and some people just dont value there own life enough for my comfort level, so they shouldnt have any nukes. SK would never launch rockets into the north first, they understand and respect the destruction war brings. If war does break out all the blood will ultimately be on Chinas hands for not influencing or forcing the north to be peaceable. Unfortunately they obviously dont care.

[Cambrius (The Red)]

North Korea is a schizophrenic state run a maniacal, criminal ruler, buttressed by an even more maniacal, criminal military.

How many millions have starved to death in that country in the last 20 years?

[LeBrok]

Excellent journalism by Anderson Cooper about escape from camp 14.
When freedom equals broiled chicken...