Germanic settlement in the southern Balkans ? ?

Maybe you have already realized but just in any case:

I2a2 in the study is old nomenclature for M26 - I2a1.

Also don't forget that the most of Vandals left Iberia when Visigoths came.
 
Shetop said:
Maybe you have already realized but just in any case:
I2a2 in the study is old nomenclature for M26 - I2a1.
Also don't forget that the most of Vandals left Iberia when Visigoths came.
Click to expand...
yes, it was lapse... I did correct it...
btw. I will edit post to extend reasoning with the influence of Vikings... I will add them where R1a is found and where maps show they were present... they carried R1a but also I*(xI2a1)
 
Vandali Silingi seems to not have had I haplogroup...

However, R1a we find in areas of Leon (7) on north and Malaga (5) on south...
this might be signature of Silingi and Hasdingi Vandals...

Interestingly G we find in areas 1 & 5 (most south), 6 & 7 (Suebic kingdom) and 9, but not in areas that were under control of Alans
However, south Portugal and west Spain are not sampled here...

if we imagine Visigoths pushing Alans and Vandals to south, we could match G in areas 1 and 5 with Alans retreat...than 3 is to expect to show traces of Vandals retreat...
 
This could be interesting:
Alans and Slavs
Third-century inscriptions from the Greek colony of Tanais at the mouth of the Don River mention a nearby Alan tribe called the Choroatos or Chorouatos[citation needed]. The historian Ptolemy identifies the Serboi as a tribe who lived north of the Caucasus, and other sources identify the Serboi as an Alan tribe in the Volga-Don steppe in the 3rd century[citation needed].
Some historians argue that the arrival of the Huns on the European steppe forced a portion of Alans previously living there to move northwest into the land of Venedes, possibly merging with Western Balts there to become the precursors of historic Slav nations.[22])
It's believed that some Alans resettled to the North (Barsils), merging with Volga Bulgars and Burtas, eventually transforming to Volga Tatars[23]
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans
 
Shetop said:
Here are the Visigoths!

Iberian Y-DNA

14.3% of I1+I2b1 for Castile!

But also around 10% of I1+I2b1 for some other Spanish cities. I don't understand why haven't anyone taken this into account so far???
Click to expand...

Great job, you found them! I started to believe that they vanished in a thin air, lol.
 
I'm interested to know the reason of I2b Hotspot between Greece,Albania and Macedonia?
 
LeBrok said:
If this map is correct, Bulgars conquered Greece, Macedonia, Albania and part of Turkey.

We also see the heightened amount of I2b1 in this area. It farther confirms Bulgar origin of this clad. Saying lightly they were very promiscuous these Bulgars, lol.
The only white spot there is in Macedonia. Did Serbs reconquered Macedonia from Bulgars? (not familiar with this part of history) Looks like Bulgars were wiped out from Macedonia before they managed to spread their seed.
If yes then most of R1a in Macedonia is Serb/Slavic, and not Bulgars or Bulgarian/Slavic.
Click to expand...
So you're basically saying that Bulgarians incorporated I2b1 in their background from Germanic tribes and then spread them elsewhere?
Doubtful but could be, where does I2b1 reach the highest percentages in Balkans?
 
Eldritch said:
I'm interested to know the reason of I2b Hotspot between Greece,Albania and Macedonia?
Click to expand...

Only someone who knows genetics, bulgarian, greek, albanian and old-norse can answer this question. Lately I have compared albanian and old-norse and it was like a big piece of the puzzle revealed. The number of cognates is quite high but they are not as clear-cut as albanian-latin cognates, showing an older influence, before the romans came to the balkans. I am not sure it can be called germanic because it's so old, but it is something that came from Denmark area in the Iron age.
 
I2 belongs to the Slavic soup of genes, not Germanic.
 
Balder said:
What I2 you mean?
Click to expand...
Look at the density peaks of I2 in general across Europe. I2a2 could belong to Ostrogoths and I2a1 to Vandals. Contrary to German propaganda, these were non-Germanic tribes.
 
al-kochol said:
Look at the density peaks of I2 in general across Europe. I2a2 could belong to Ostrogoths and I2a1 to Vandals. Contrary to German propaganda, these were non-Germanic tribes.
Click to expand...
We don't know for sure which haplogroups were dominant among Ostrogoths and Vandals. Probably, the haplotypes 'dominant' in modern day Germanic language countries.

Well the idea of Vandals being Slavics is pretty much of a bad taste Slavic piss off propaganda. I created a thread here asking the origin of this pathetic antho-forum phenomenon. http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28492-Vandals-who-were-they
 
Balder said:
Well the idea of Vandals being Slavics is pretty much of a bad taste Slavic piss off propaganda.
Click to expand...
Your hatred of the so called Slavs kills your logic. Slavic languages are older than German. Slavic tribes came out of Scythia and Scythia was very well known to Herodotus in the 5th century BC.
 
al-kochol said:
Look at the density peaks of I2 in general across Europe. I2a2 could belong to Ostrogoths and I2a1 to Vandals. Contrary to German propaganda, these were non-Germanic tribes.
Click to expand...

from russian genetic people



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
I do not understand your map, zanipolo. Mixing I1 with I2 is a common error.
 
al-kochol said:
I do not understand your map, zanipolo. Mixing I1 with I2 is a common error.
Click to expand...

its from russian genetics,

All I ydna was once one group, like all R ydna was once one group , now its R1a , R1b and R2

the map is the oldest dates and where they are found by age
 
let me try to direct this thread back to its topic "germanic settlements in Balkan"
according to genetic search of Serbia
http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/02/serbian-y-chromosomes.html

most of I1 found there is I1d1

now if you look at yfamilytreedna database for I1
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ymap

you can notice that I1d1 is relatively rare and seems to be Viking related... as it is present in Denmark, along sea coasts of Scandinavia, and along sea coasts of UK, Ireland, north France and north Italy.....there is also one sample in Bavaria and two more in central Germany.....one sample in Romania....and one sample on Baltic coast of Estonia...

In Serbia I1d1 is 4.9% of population and other I1 is 2.9%...


now, its hard to explain how did I1d1 come to Serb settled areas from Scandinavia...
this is not influence of historic Germanic tribes... as it is practically lacking in continental Europe where historic Germanic tribes dwellt.... nor we can relate it to late Vikings...

I1d1 is relatively rare haplogroup and being as large as 5% in Serbs and not existing in surrounding areas suggests it travelled with Serbs...

so it looks as a Viking admixture to proto-Serbs prior to their arrival to Balkan....
I suspect its admixture from the times when Scirii resided in Baltic area....in northwest Poland...
we can imagine Viking settlement on south shores of Baltic sea or even on shores of Black sea being absorbed by Scirii

another option is trade routes... Serians are in my opinion people who have early in history established trade routes to silk they have produced in Seres area north of Tibet and to spices from India and Arab countries.... Vikings could have used these trade routes and part of them was merged into Serian population....
 
how yes no 3 said:
let me try to direct this thread back to its topic "germanic settlements in Balkan"
according to genetic search of Serbia
http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/02/serbian-y-chromosomes.html

most of I1 found there is I1d1

now if you look at yfamilytreedna database for I1
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1/default.aspx?section=ymap

you can notice that I1d1 is relatively rare and seems to be Viking related... as it is present in Denmark, along sea coasts of Scandinavia, and along sea coasts of UK, Ireland, north France and north Italy.....there is also one sample in Bavaria and two more in central Germany.....one sample in Romania....and one sample on Baltic coast of Estonia...

In Serbia I1d1 is 4.9% of population and other I1 is 2.9%...


now, its hard to explain how did I1d1 come to Serb settled areas from Scandinavia...
this is not influence of historic Germanic tribes... as it is practically lacking in continental Europe where historic Germanic tribes dwellt.... nor we can relate it to late Vikings...

I1d1 is relatively rare haplogroup and being as large as 5% in Serbs and not existing in surrounding areas suggests it travelled with Serbs...

so it looks as a Viking admixture to proto-Serbs prior to their arrival to Balkan....
I suspect its admixture from the times when Scirii resided in Baltic area....in northwest Poland...
we can imagine Viking settlement on south shores of Baltic sea or even on shores of Black sea being absorbed by Scirii

another option is trade routes... Serians are in my opinion people who have early in history established trade routes to silk they have produced in Seres area north of Tibet and to spices from India and Arab countries.... Vikings could have used these trade routes and part of them was merged into Serian population....
Click to expand...
I have a simpler and more reasonable explanation, Saxon Miners during middle ages.
 
how yes no 3 said:
let me try to direct this thread back to its topic "germanic settlements in Balkan"
according to genetic search of Serbia


most of I1 found there is I1d1

now if you look at yfamilytreedna database for I1


you can notice that I1d1 is relatively rare and seems to be Viking related... as it is present in Denmark, along sea coasts of Scandinavia, and along sea coasts of UK, Ireland, north France and north Italy.....there is also one sample in Bavaria and two more in central Germany.....one sample in Romania....and one sample on Baltic coast of Estonia...

In Serbia I1d1 is 4.9% of population and other I1 is 2.9%...


now, its hard to explain how did I1d1 come to Serb settled areas from Scandinavia...
this is not influence of historic Germanic tribes... as it is practically lacking in continental Europe where historic Germanic tribes dwellt.... nor we can relate it to late Vikings...

I1d1 is relatively rare haplogroup and being as large as 5% in Serbs and not existing in surrounding areas suggests it travelled with Serbs...

so it looks as a Viking admixture to proto-Serbs prior to their arrival to Balkan....
I suspect its admixture from the times when Scirii resided in Baltic area....in northwest Poland...
we can imagine Viking settlement on south shores of Baltic sea or even on shores of Black sea being absorbed by Scirii

another option is trade routes... Serians are in my opinion people who have early in history established trade routes to silk they have produced in Seres area north of Tibet and to spices from India and Arab countries.... Vikings could have used these trade routes and part of them was merged into Serian population....
Click to expand...

Maybe I1d1,I1d3a is Finnish and com to Balkan with Bulgars and Hungarians like I2a-Din.
 
gyms said:
Maybe I1d1,I1d3a is Finnish and com to Balkan with Bulgars and Hungarians like I2a-Din.
Click to expand...
you are joking, right?

i1d1 map shows no samples in hungary and Bulgaria and only one on coasts of Finland...
and i2a-din has nothing to do with Hungarians and original Bulgars...

i2a-din south is in fact typical for Serb settled areas and shows few islands in rest of Europe that are probably linked to prior locations of Serbs (as we can be sure is the case for the hotspot in Bohemia due to historic data and Srb related place names in that area)

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ymap
 
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