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Thread: New map of E1b1b in Europe and the Middle East

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    Arrow New map of E1b1b in Europe and the Middle East



    After working on the new J2 map, and making maps for other major haplogroups (R1b, R1a, I1, I2a, G2a), I felt that time had come to gather my strength and design a map of E1b1b. Ideally I should make maps for each of the three main subclades (E-M81, E-M78 and E-M123), and even sub-subclades (such as E-V13), but data is too sparse at the moment.

    Let me know if you find any inconsistencies with what you know about this haplogroup.


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    Yet again the Galician E-M81 being overexaggerated for unknown reasons. Galicia has not 25% of E-M81, (that was only in 1 single study). If you sum up all the studies about Galicia it comes about 12-15 % of E-M81. Capelli et al. 2009 found E1b1b there at only 6.8%. Adams et al. 2008 I think claimed 9%. In a sample of 137 at Iberianroots Galicia has 7.32 % of E-M81. It's up to you ..

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    Country: Serbia



    Albania
    North – 41.21%
    South – 28.10%
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/.../fulltext.html

    Bulgaria
    Probable frequency is between 20 – 25%.
    Maximum in Central and Northwestern, Minimum in Northeastern
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181964/
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    Serbia - around 20%
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...21235/suppinfo
    Maximum in Southeastern (more than 25%), Minimum in Western (less than 15%)
    Northern Serbia 16.76% (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17482396)
    Kosovo 47.40%

    Macedonia – around 25%
    Maximum in Northwestern, Minimum in Southern

    Croatia 5 – 10%
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2008249a.html

    Southwestern Romania - around 20%
    Last edited by Shetop; 23-12-10 at 01:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post


    sea coast hotspots match Greek colonies...

    hotspot in France is interesting... well, if Franks really did move from Asia minor after Trojan war (as their legend of origin states) than they could carry it...

    curiously, Brittany is lacking both E and J2

    surprisingly, hotspot in Iberia matches position of Suebi..though it could be due to previous inhabitants...according to figure bellow area was settled with PIE peoples before Celts...from story of Caledoni/Caladuni (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26103) we can assume that at least part of E came to area (more or less matching Portugal) by sea, from area rich in E perhaps from Balkan... note that there are also Helleni among those tribes.. we can see that tribe Turduli Oppidani spread accross part of sea coast of Portugal has somewhat less E than its neighbours

    hole in Iberia matches position of Visigoths.... hm could arrival of Visigoths actually cause big scale depopulation of area?this would indicate that footprint of Visigoths was something different than dominant I1...alternatively, previous settlers had very low E ... but shape and spread cannot be covered by single previous tribe...or this is not the hole, but is surrounded with hotspots as its neighbours on west of peninsula and on sea coasts got much more E (most likely explanation)


    for larger image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eria_300BC.svg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Yet again the Galician E-M81 being overexaggerated for unknown reasons. Galicia has not 25% of E-M81, (that was only in 1 single study). If you sum up all the studies about Galicia it comes about 12-15 % of E-M81. Capelli et al. 2009 found E1b1b there at only 6.8%. Adams et al. 2008 I think claimed 9%. In a sample of 137 at Iberianroots Galicia has 7.32 % of E-M81. It's up to you ..
    It's not just E-M81 (E1b1b1b), but all E1b1b (E-M215 and subclades).

    The Capelli et al. study only analysed E-M81, not all E1b1b.

    Flores et al. reported 26.3% of E1b1b + 5.3% of E1b1a in Galicia.

    Adams et al. gave 9% of E-M81 for Galicia, but 17% of E1b1b in total.

    Maca-Meyer et al. found 24% of E1b1b in the Pasiegos of adjacent Cantabria, and an average of 20% for all Cantabrians.

    I didn't put all Galicia in "20-30%", but just the eastern part, as the hotspots seems to be located there (given the high incidence of E1b1b in Castilla-y-Leon too).

    This made me realise that I forgot to add the hotspot around Cantabria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It's not just E-M81 (E1b1b1b), but all E1b1b (E-M215 and subclades).

    The Capelli et al. study only analysed E-M81, not all E1b1b.

    Flores et al. reported 26.3% of E1b1b + 5.3% of E1b1a in Galicia.

    Adams et al. gave 9% of E-M81 for Galicia, but 17% of E1b1b in total.

    Maca-Meyer et al. found 24% of E1b1b in the Pasiegos of adjacent Cantabria, and an average of 20% for all Cantabrians.
    Yes I know. Im talking about E1b1b also. In the sample of 137 of Iberianroots they have 14.6 % of E1b1b. The 25% has been found only in one single study...
    Last edited by Maciamo; 23-12-10 at 00:55. Reason: mistakenly edited wrong post

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    Maciamo
    The map for Balkan is no good, Serbia has less (17%), Romania has more (21%), Peloponnese has 47%, etc.

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    The source for Peloponnesians (E1b1b 47%) is:

    Semino et al

    Origin, Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E
    and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory
    Events in the Mediterranean Area

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    Thanks for your feedback on the Balkans. It's important not to focus on just one study but make averages of all the data available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shetop View Post
    Albania
    North – 41.21%
    South – 28.10%
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/.../fulltext.html

    Bulgaria
    Probable frequency is between 20 – 25%.
    Maximum in Central and Northwestern, Minimum in Northeastern
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181964/
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    Serbia - around 20%
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...21235/suppinfo
    Maximum in Southeastern (more than 25%), Minimum in Western (less than 15%)
    Northern Serbia 16.76% (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17482396)
    Kosovo 47.40%

    Macedonia – around 25%
    Maximum in Northwestern, Minimum in Southern

    Croatia 5 – 10%
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2008249a.html

    Southwestern Romania - around 20%
    Here are my sources (including those mentioned above).

    Battaglia et al. gives 25.4% of E1b1b for Albanians, 39.1% for Albanians from Macedonia, 23% for Macedonian Greeks, 22.3% for Bosnia Serbs, 10.3% for Osijek Croats, 8.9% for Bosnia Croats, 8.8% for Croats, 2.7% for Slovenians.

    Bosch et al. reports 23.3% of E1b1b for Albanians, 23.1% for Macedonians, 12.9% for Romanians from Constanta, 16.7% for Romanians from Ploeisti.

    Marjanovic et al. found 22.3% of E1b1b in Bosnia Serbs, 12.9% in Bosniacs, and 8.9% in Bosnia Croats.

    Semino et al. shows 20.3% of E1b1b in Macedonian Greeks, 25% in Albanians, 8.8% in Croats, 9.4% in Hungarians, and 8.6% in Ukrainians.

    Cruciani et al. (2004) mentions 31.6% of E1b1b in Albanians, 20.7% in Bulgarians, 21.4% in Romanians.

    King et al. has 15.2% of E1b1b in Macedonians, 23.6% in Albanians, 8.9% in Hungarians, 6.9% in Croats.

    Mirabal et al. found 17.3% of E1b1b in Serbs and 27% in Montenegrins.

    Ferri et al. found an average of 30.3% of E1b1b in Albanians.

    Kalevi Wiik in Where did European Men come from ? made averages from various sources and reported 21.6% of E in Albanians, 15% in Macedonians, 17% in Bulgarians, 7.4% in Romanians, 12.8% in Moldovans and 3.1% in Ukrainians.


    Greece has been the object of several detailed studies. I have attached a summary.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Shouldn't be much more E1b on the north of Albania and Kosovo than on the south of Albania how it is presented on the map?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Battaglia et al. gives 25.4% of E1b1b for Albanians, 39.1% for Albanians from Macedonia, 23% for Macedonian Greeks, 22.3% for Bosnia Serbs, 10.3% for Osijek Croats, 8.9% for Bosnia Croats, 8.8% for Croats, 2.7% for Slovenians.
    this work uses data of Marjanovic for Serbs, Bosnians, part of Croats sample..

    The sample consists of 1206 unrelated male individuals from 17 population samples (Figure 1). Two-hundred and thirty-five of these, namely 64 Albanians from Former Yugoslavia Republic of Macedonia, 29 Croatians from Osijek, 75 Slovenians and 67 northeast Italians (from the province of Trento), are reported here for the first time. The remaining include samples reported earlier, 23,27,33 and consist of 104 Caucasians (38 Balkarians and 66 Georgians), 149 Greeks (92 from Athens and 57 from Macedonia), 55 Albanians (collected in Tirana), 89 Croatians, 99 Polish, 75 Czechs, 92 Ukrainians, 53 Hungariansand 255 Bosnia-Herzegovinians (84 Bosniacs, 90 Croats and 81 Serbs).
    Btw. Osijek shows 13.9% of G2a (quite large hotspot..I think it may go into G map) ... I wonder whether this is signature of Sarmatian Jazyges or perhaps part of markers of proto-Croats.. though percentage may be very wrong as sample size is small (only 29 people)

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    I have made some amends to the map. What do you think ?

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    Maciamo

    Not all studies are same quality and it is difficult to make on average over the simple arithmetic mean, better results are achieved by emphasizing those better, or by giving more weight to them.

    For example American study for Serbia and Montenegro:

    Mirabal et al (2010)
    Human Y-Chromosome Short Tandem Repeats: A Tale of Acculturation and Migrations as Mechanisms for the Diffusion of Agriculture in the Balkan Peninsula

    is high-quality than some studies done for Bosnia.

    But let’s this ignore.

    On the other hand, two studies in the Balkans and missing precisely those that are important to E1b1b:

    Pericic et al (2005),
    High-Resolution Phylogenetic Analysis of Southeastern Europe Traces
    Major Episodes of Paternal Gene Flow Among Slavic Populations

    which presents peak E1b1b on Kosovo

    and

    Semino et al (2004),
    Origin, Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E
    and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory
    Events in the Mediterranean Area

    which gives high percent E1b1b to Peloponnesus.

    These two studies are important because they present where E1b1b the most concentrated.

    But from the data that you give can be seen nonconformities between data and the map.

    I will give four nonconformities:

    1) In Serbia E1b1b is 17% according Mirabal et al and 20% according Pericic et al, if someone calculates arithmetic mean it is 18.5%, but the big part of Serbia is shown color which represent 20-30%.

    2) On Kosovo according Pericic et al E1b1b is 45.6%, on the map is 20-30%.

    3) With the inclusion of studies Semino et al where E1b1b is 47% of the Peloponnesus, we get the color that represents 30-40%, and if someone does averages it is still much more than 5% in current map.

    4) In Romania E1b1b is about 20% wih arithmetic means but on map is 1-5% and 5-10%.


    Precisely maps the distribution E1b1b in the Balkans for Mirabal et al, Semino et al, and Pericic et al can be useful for drawing map that reflects current knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have made some amends to the map. What do you think ?
    Maciamo, OK, now I think, it is much better aligned with the relevant literature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have made some amends to the map. What do you think ?
    It looks correct to me...
    Btw. where exactly is the hotspot that is visible in central Europe? looks like Slovakia to me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    [FONT=Verdana]1) In Serbia E1b1b is 17% according Mirabal et al and 20% according Pericic et al, if someone calculates arithmetic mean it is 18.5%, but the big part of Serbia is shown color which represent 20-30%.
    Kosovo and Montenegro having much higher frequencies, the 15-20% applies only to northern Serbia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    2) On Kosovo according Pericic et al E1b1b is 45.6%, on the map is 20-30%.
    Have you refreshed the page since I updated the map ? Kosovo is right on the hotspot (over 40%).

    3) With the inclusion of studies Semino et al where E1b1b is 47% of the Peloponnesus, we get the color that represents 30-40%, and if someone does averages it is still much more than 5% in current map.
    Semino et al. only tested a few people from one place in the Peloponnese. I considered other data too.

    4) In Romania E1b1b is about 20% wih arithmetic means but on map is 1-5% and 5-10%.
    Only one study found 20% of E1b1b in Romania. Others + the FTDNA Project for Romania give an average of 10-15%, but not evenly spread (higher density in the south and north-east).

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    It looks correct to me...
    Btw. where exactly is the hotspot that is visible in central Europe? looks like Slovakia to me...
    Slovakia and eastern Austria have about 11%. Not really a hotspot considering that surrounding areas have about 9%. But still, I wanted to show that it was above 10%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Kosovo and Montenegro having much higher frequencies, the 15-20% applies only to northern Serbia.



    Have you refreshed the page since I updated the map ? Kosovo is right on the hotspot (over 40%).



    Semino et al. only tested a few people from one place in the Peloponnese. I considered other data too.



    Only one study found 20% of E1b1b in Romania. Others + the FTDNA Project for Romania give an average of 10-15%, but not evenly spread (higher density in the south and north-east).
    Maciamo
    OK, the map is much better now.

    And You're right, Peloponnese sholud be further investigated.

    But, the data about the Peloponnese from Semino et al are used, for example:
    dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/fallmerayer/

    It is interesting that Peloponnese and Kosovo have the highest peak E1b1b.

    It wolud be very interesting to explore E1b1b in Romania (and Bulgaria).

    Why is the Romania interesting?

    Because there are opinions that the Dacians (and Thracians also) are originally E1b1b.

    If it is true, Illyrians, Greek tribes, Thracians and Dacians are the same root, early (Neolithic) farmers.

    Kalevy Week (2008) about Balkan:

    "Clans E3b, J and G and represent the Early Farmers."
    Last edited by Garrick; 23-12-10 at 23:15.

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    I am M84+, however this group seems very dispersed with no clear geographical hotspots. Samples range from the Levant, to Turkey taking a turn around Italy, Portugal and then appear in England? Looking at the region of appearance I would guess a predominantly seaborne allocation, best guess would be trading colonies possibly starting with the Phoenicians and later Semitic or Jewish traders? This group has taken advantage of the formation of Empires such the Roman and later the Ottomans for trade...I assume this since M84+ is never a majority in any location, appears close to important sea or land trading routes and usually below 5%.

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    Certainly, the Eupedia E-YDNA haplogroup averages for Galicia need to be reduced. They currently read 25% on the DNA tables.

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    And when is J1's new map coming?:)

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    There is an enclave of M123 clusters (M34 mainly) around the Dead Sea, we can't see it here for instance....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    There is an enclave of M123 clusters (M34 mainly) around the Dead Sea, we can't see it here for instance....
    What percentage ? Sources ?

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    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5

    Ethnic group
    Half-Jewish (paternal) & Half-British (maternal)
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    What percentage ? Sources ?
    31%, Flores et al:

    http://www.haplozone.net/wiki/index....s_et_al._(2005)

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