Old Slavs- racial question

iapodos

iapodos

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I have found interesting represantation of four racial type in medieval Europe. The picture is from Otto III Gospel from 10th century. It represents Slav, German, Gaull and Roman... What was most interesting if we compare the picture of Slav and the way is presented, with ruddy skin and hair it is almost exact how Procopius, Byzantine writer from 6th century describes Slavs:
"They live in pitiful hovels which they set up far apart from one another, but, as a general thing, every man is constantly changing his place of abode. When they enter battle, the majority of them go against their enemy on foot carrying little shields and javelins in their hands, but they never wear corselets. Indeed, some of them do not wear even a shirt or a cloak, but gathering their trews up as far as to their private parts they enter into battle with their opponents. And both the two peoples have also the same language, an utterly barbarous tongue. Nay further, they do not differ at all from one another in appearance. For they are all exceptionally tall and stalwart men, while their bodies and hair are neither very fair or blond, nor indeed do they incline entirely to the dark type, but they are all slightly ruddy in color. And they live a hard life, giving no heed to bodily comforts...".[
It is also interesting that Gaull man was presented as darkest among four, even darkest than the Roman one.

4_Gift_Bringers_of_Otto_III.jpg


The other interesting thing is presents they hold. Slav holds the bread, which may imply that he represents the nation of agriculturalists and peasents. Gaul holds something what reminds me on palm tree. I am not sure what German and Roman holds.
 
The first time that I saw that quote, the part about fighting with little clothing reminded me of Celtic Gaesatae, Nordic Berserker, and the Shardana. I am not sure of the cultural/ethnic placing of the Shardana, though I think that it falls into the IE range.

I have to think that there was a cultural style that was either really widespread at that time or that it started in a PIE base group and kept getting passed on through the ages. Although we of course have to take into account the Slav's material resources at the time, maybe a cultural/ ritualistic aspect did play a part.

 
I believe that all of four holding some gifts which presents material goods (food), so maybe the Gaul holding some other tree, maybe sugarcane, which was brought first time in Europe with Arabs in Iberia. It is logical that Gauls first have contact with sugarcane in Europe, because they were bordering with Arabs. It is alomost sure that German holding some kind of drink, probably mead placed in horn which was common custom among Germanic tribes. The Roman I suppose is carrying something for eat too, maybe candies or some kind of prefabricated fruit.
 
iapodos

Great image...
..which clearly manifest racial characteristics of the Slаvs

We Serbs .. Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas on 7. januar....or on our calendar ..Julian Calendar 25 december..
168295_1574940652136_1194174858_1253673_5499248_n.jpg
 
Yes, I apologize for failing to give my Christmas greetings to the Orthodox here.

Merry Christmas.
 
Regulus said:
The first time that I saw that quote, the part about fighting with little clothing reminded me of Celtic Gaesatae, Nordic Berserker, and the Shardana. I am not sure of the cultural/ethnic placing of the Shardana, though I think that it falls into the IE range.

I have to think that there was a cultural style that was either really widespread at that time or that it started in a PIE base group and kept getting passed on through the ages. Although we of course have to take into account the Slav's material resources at the time, maybe a cultural/ ritualistic aspect did play a part.
Click to expand...

I find this similarity between early Slavs and Sherdana quite fascinating especially when looked upon in the context related to Serians
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=363242&postcount=156

and in scope of the thread about sea peoples
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26076
 
How Yes Non,
I can't recall (though I do rememer it) where I read about the Shardana fighting as mercenaries for Kings of the fertile crescent. Do you know of any sources for this? I wanted to tuck it away for research later but I can't remember where to look.
 
Regulus said:
How Yes Non,
I can't recall (though I do rememer it) where I read about the Shardana fighting as mercenaries for Kings of the fertile crescent. Do you know of any sources for this? I wanted to tuck it away for research later but I can't remember where to look.
Click to expand...

I remember reading that there were Sherdana mercenaries in army of Egypt, e.g. depicted with their horned helmets as body guards and part of army of Ramesses II. Don't know about other countries.

I have just found nice web page about sea peoples that shows some reliefs
http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/sea.htm

seapeoples18.jpg
seapeoples17.jpg


they resemble Vikings with their horned helmets, but some of them besides horns have some kind of circle between horns...

seapeoples14.jpg
 
they resemble Vikings with their horned helmets
Click to expand...

This is a myth, vikings didn't wear hornets in helmets!
 
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Regulus said:
Yes, I apologize for failing to give my Christmas greetings to the Orthodox here.

Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated then that. Some autocephalous orthodox churches like the ones in Romania, Greece, Bulgaria use the Gregorian calendar while other churches like Russian and Serbian still use the Julian calendar...
 
iapodos said:
It is also interesting that Gaull man was presented as darkest among four, even darkest than the Roman one.
Click to expand...

I always wondered this myself. I thought Roman texts often described the Gauls as a very fair featured people?
 
 
my conclusions is that many southern slavs, aren't that slav looking (serbs don't look slavic), also croatians, and many other people of the balkans, at least the most part of them.

I think Croatians share more genes with italians (and also facial and phisical looks, obviously).
 
julia90 said:
my conclusions is that many southern slavs, aren't that slav looking (serbs don't look slavic), also croatians, and many other people of the balkans, at least the most part of them.

I think Croatians share more genes with italians (and also facial and phisical looks, obviously).
Click to expand...

Well you see you are totally wrong in your assumption, Croats don't share almost anything with italians when it comes about genetics...when it comes about look, northern Croats are mostly slavic looking people, south Croats are mostly Dinarics... Also, overall, Croats are much taller than Italians, not just taller than Italians but Croats are one of the tallest people in Europe, don't know on what "facts" you based your post but you are 100% wrong :)

Greets
 
Maybe Slavic is not the blond, but the dark of South
maybe the blond is matriarchical from older people,
remember that blond has to do with Baltic sea,

in a thread i read in this forum blondism around Baltic is bigger,

you can realize that also in germany, travveling from Hamburg south to Austrian tyrol.
 
The picture on the first page. that is interesting, especially the Gaul.
That would make sense if the celts really are from Iberia, you would expect them to be rather dark skinned then. the romans said gauls wre fair skinned, i think this was a typical roman generalization, and higher ranking or noble gauls rarely went outside in the sun, so their skin was fair.
 
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