Berbers and Albanians, E haplogroup and linguistic similarity

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laugh? you may laugh but it is a class name of a nation
shqiptar in albanian
shqapan in greek
shqepar in turkish
1 the albanians
2 the builders
3 the builders hammer
any connection
I don't understand what you means, but let me explane something.
In alb. Sqepar- adz, from Sqep + ar. Sqep-beak,pecker and ar- usually an ending in alb words. It looks like the beak of a bird!
In greek it is called σκεπάρνι. Can you tell me the origin of this word, because the turks called it "gaga"! Don't you confuse "sqepar" with "çekiç"!
Now do you know what means in alb, Shkly, shqy, shqyp, shqip,sqep, shqep, shqype, shqipe and shqiponjë?
And what means "Skiptos" ?
 
THEN YOU ARE RIGHT
IF Sqepar- adz, from Sqep + ar
and the turks also called skeparn in areas like minor Asia smyrna and cappadokia

so then
we go to the other approach

SHQIPTAR = ISH + GIPT + AR means I AM EGYPTIAN g as wh in what if g as k the coptic
cause in byzantine egyptians even today they are called GYPT-IAN and the COPTIC KOPT-ES = COPT-ES
then THAT APPROACH FITS TO YOU,
MEANING THAT SHQIPTAR MEANS EGYPTIAN.

OR ESH + GIPT + AR = FROM EGYPT ???????
also Ash means from but only in east ionic


i suggest you tell me who is

David Megas Komnenos comnenus

or

Michael Komnenos Comnenus

or

Alexander Ypsilantis

all from comnana of Trebizond Empire to Con/polis to Epirus to moldavia


because Skiptos means bowed but sgiptos means egyptian
k as gr κ
g as γ -wh- in what 'swhiptos'

or the very ancient before 700 BC skif-os or skiphos wich in aeolian druopean (thessaly) means ksifos early kind of spear, the metallic nose-edge of the spear,
cause in case that shqiptar means form egypt then we have a small lingua conection with egypt,
but in case of shqiptar means something like the sword, then the similarity with proto-greeks is obvious
Gods what the f... happened to greek language?
And the book thot parllara albanese is correct,
and maybe solves problems and gives us light,
cause until now albanian language is considered the most isolated and the lingua with the most unknown words
if giuseppe catapano (Gaetapanou in greek means captain panos)
is correct then a new search era begins, and may also corrects mistakes of the past of all balkans nations, it can help us all,
anywhere i can find it? only italy arbers?
 
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You people have to stop being Stupid and not complicate things, looking for a needle in hay.

Shqiptar comes from the word Shqipe or Shqiponja which means Eagle, we all know Skenderbeg was the one that carried the eagle in his flag, Albanians called on this flag and identified with this flag.

Shqiptar is a term Related to the Eagle plus Shqiptar is a new term Used by Albanians Probably after the 16th or 17th Century, Albanians bever before that refered to themselves as Shqiptar we refered to ourselves as Arbresh or Arber
 
Who was Georgija Kastriot (Gjergj Kastrioti, Georgius Castriotus, Georgios Kastriotis)?

The book about Georgija Kastriot written by Petar Popovski.

There are 20 full songs like these in the book, sung in a western Macedonian (Mijak) dialect. Albanians have none. Georgija Kastriot was IMPOSED in their history, by the Austro-hungarian and Italian politico-historians when Albania was formed in 1912.

One is the song about the dream of his mother Voislava and the second is the song about Georgija and his wife Marija Andronika.

Son sonila Voislava kralica
son sonila od son se isplasila
Mi rodila bela luta zmija
So kriljata Epir pokrivala
So glavata carigrad dopirala
Kako zmija glava mu vrtela
Take zivi Turci mi g'ltala

Se chudeje epirski vojvodi
sho je ova chudo nevideno
Malo kralce, s kruna na cheloto
Se radveshe Ivanova roda
Brakja , sestri i si bratuchedi
Sho se rodi dete zvezdajlija...

Mu kladoja ime Gospodovo
Georgija - ime hristijansko
Makedonsko - slavno biblijansko....

==========

Ushche zora ne zorila
Stana Ivan na pot da mi odit
Mi razbudi sina Georgija
Si jafnaje svoi brzi konji
Otidoje vo grada Kanina..

Zdravo zivo tije si storile
I na divan skrisno besedeje
Da se krenat protiv Osmanlii
Da si vratit zemji porobeni
Ji sluzese mlada Andronika
S crno kafe i s luta rakija
Frli oko Gjorgji na devojka
Lichna moma kako samovila....


Barleti is Georija's biograph, a bishop that lived in Georgija's rule...In his book "Historia de vita et rebus gestis Scanderbegi" he refers to Kastriot only with "King of Epirus and Macedonia"

T. Spanducci, a writer from the 17th century in his book "Historia" wrote:

"Georgija Kastriot was respected not only by his tribe, the Mijak tribe but all other nations, even the Turks. His mother was Vojislava, a Macedonian woman, daughter of a nobleman from Polog, which of course is a part of Macedonia..."
And then he concludes:
"The Mijak tribe and all the other Slovenes have many reasons for the glorification and the singed songs about their hero Georgija Kastriot, because he fought for the protection of the slav culture, for the christian cross and for the freedom, but also because he had the most noble name from his kind - Georgija"

Even today in Mount Athos in the Monastery Hilandar(Χιλανδαρίου) you can see the writing of the monk Nikanor that says:
Сеи хрисовуль есть господара Ивнна Кацтпиота македонскаго, и копίе его вь немъ есть. И пише како даеть монастирю нашему две села во и суща съ церковьίю Пресветы, Богородицы тамо сущίа, и описуеть вс по синорами, и прочат.

P.S. Vita et res praeclare gestae Christi Athletae Georgii Castrioti Epirotarum principis, qui propter heroicam virtutem suam a Turcis Scander beg, id est Alexander Magnus cognominatus est libris XIII a Marino Barletio, Scodrensi sacerdote conscripta, denum cum licentia superiourum reimpressa, Zagrabiaeanno 1743.

When the Ottomans found the grave of Skanderbeg in Saint Nicholas, a church in Lezhë, they opened it and made amulets of his bones, believing that these would confer bravery on the wearer.
His grave is in a orthodox church yard.

Coat of arms of the Kastrioti family
StemaeFamiljesKastrioti2.GIF
 
Gjon Kastrioti, father of Gjergj Kastrioti was a lord of Middle Albania and his mother Vojsava Tripalda was a princess from the Tripalda family, yes, from the Polog valley, north-western region of todays FYROM. By the way, in this region lives albanians and a very small slavic population. Just to remind you, few years ago, when the Albanians mentioned Skanderbeg, you punished and tortured while imprisoned them ... you have insulted and offended his name? Remember that many times he was betrayed by Slavic people. And now, suddenly, he became your hero? Stop with these lies and tackle your 20-year history.
 
Petar Popovski is a nutcase no one in the world would take him seriously.
 
yes of course kastrioti 20 sources say he is greek, 20 sources say he is Albanian 20 sources say he is slavian,
WTF do you expect solution to that?
tommorow 20 sources say he is montenegros WTF expect
who to trust?
albanians nationalists who recon skopje
slavians nationalist who recon bardarska WTF
Greeks nationalist who claim even Georgia
bulgarians who say they are the only thracians
!!!!!!!!
we make spam propaganda every thread,

besides according greeks his wife was Ariadne Androniki Komneni (ariadne adriyianite)
WTF
his grand father was constantine kastrioti regi casturia et ematheia
in byzantine
Κωνσταντινος Καστριωτης Ελεω Θεου ΡΩμαιωνΤιμαριων (baron) καστοριας και ημαθειας
casturia et ematheia in greek makedonia?
or castrat et mat in albania???
:))))))))))

WTF you expect?
to find solution to that? no way
:)))))))))
only turks dont claim kastrioti

besides the only thing i have not heard yet is that makedonians came from china....
they were with huns or sarmatians or scythians ....
and they speak turkish before koine ....................
maybe i will hear also in future claims of turks
!!!!!!!!!!
 
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"yes of course kastrioti 20 sources say he is greek, 20 sources say he is Albanian 20 sources say he is slavian"
Where is the source link please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emathus
Emathus , Emathius or Amathus (Greek:Ἥμαθος, Ἠμάθιος, Ἄμαθος), was son of Makednos, from whom Emathia (the Homeric name of Lower Macedonia) was believed to have derived its name. The daughters of Pierus, the Pierides, are sometimes called Emathides. The Emathian or Emathius in Latin is a frequently used name by Latin poets for Alexander the Great. Actually, Emathus became son of Makednos in the second half of the fourth century, when Marsyas of Pella made Emathos and Pieros the eponymous of these two regions in Ancient Macedonia. Brusos was a son of Emathius, from whom Brusis, a portion of Macedonia, was believed to have derived its name. According to Solinus (9.10) , Emathius was unrelated and older than Makednos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makednos
Makedon, also Macedon or Makednos (Greek: Μακεδών), was the eponymous mythological ancestor of the ancient Macedonians according to various ancient Greek fragmentary narratives. In most versions, he appears as a native or immigrant leader who gave his name to the Macedon, previously called Emathia or Thrace.

"Remember that many times he was betrayed by Slavic people."
Which slavic people betrayed him?, can you link to your source.


Gjon is not the real name of Georgijas father, his real name is Ivan and he was a Mijak (Macedonian tribe).
Georgija, of course, based on relevant historical sources. The family (descent) Kastriot, whose descendant is Georgija Kastriot, originates from the Mijak tribal group Kastrates. Today there are two assumptions for his birthplace. By ones, Georgija was born in the village Simona, north of the town Kroja (now Kruja), by others in the village Rostusha, Debar region. The Kastriot family was famous even in the first half of the XIV century when his grandfather Konstantin Kastriot became a head of the Macedonian (Miak) population in the region of Matka (now Mat) and Mala Les (now Malesia, that is Male Zi), Northern Albania. Formerly Konstantin was one of the greatest salt traders with Dubrovnik. After his death his son Ivan, who accepting the vassalage of the Turks succeeded to protect that part of today Albania from the Ottoman slavery, inherited him. Ivan's father left more written documents testifying about the Macedonian (Mijak) character of the Kastriot descent. On this occasion we shall cite only a part of the charter written by the hand of Ivan to the Monastery of Hilendar, on Sveta Gora, from 1426.

In this document, written in Old Church Slavic language
the following is written.

"According to the unspeakable mercy of my ruler Christ, I, sinful and
unworthy, must not be mistaken to my Jesus Christ, Ivan Kastriot and my sons Stanisha and Riposha and Konstantin and Georgij. have contributed to the Holy monastery great Prechista of the ruler Lavri of Hilendar and I contributed the village Rodostushe and the church St.Prechista Bogorodica, also in that village Rodostushe and the village Trebishte.

The writing is confirmed with a seal with the name of Ivan Kastriot,
written in Cyrillic alphabet (See documents in: St.Novakovich, Legal
monuments./fifth book, pg. 467).

From the correspondence with the Dubrovnik Republic, having political,
military and trade relations, three letters have been saved written also in
Cyrillic alphabet. His Macedonian-Christian spirit and character is clearly seen from the letters. This spirit is mostly expressed in the letter from 25 February 1420, sent to the landowner Petar from Dubrovnik, which says:

"My faith in Christ as well as the faith of my sons Reposh, Stanislav,
Konstantin and Georgija. My Gjorgjian country, extending from Konjuh (now Elbasan) to Prizren, is maintained and cultivated by me, Mr. Ivan and my sons."

As it can be seen here, Ivan Kastriot calls his landowner's territory "Gjorgjian", that is "Gjorgjian land", after the name of his grand-grandfather Gjorgjia, he had inherited it from. These records deny all theses, lies, forgeries and speculations for the supposed Gego-Mirditian (Arnautian) that is Albanian character of the Kastriot family.
A testimony for the Macedonian (Mijak) origin of Georgija is the
personal names in the descent of the Kastriot family. Namely, in this Macedonian ancient family we meet the most archaic and most characteristic Slavic biblical names like: Branislav, Pavle, Nikola, Gjorgjija, Konstantin - all ancestors of Georgjija. His parents, his father Ivan and his mother Voislava, had four sons - Reposh, Stanislav, Konstantin and Georgija and five daughters - Radislava,
Marija, Vlajka, Angelina and Mamica. Georgija's sons were named after their ancestors: Ivan and Pavle, which is a common characteristic of the Mijak descendants. None of the names here can be identified with the Gego-Mirditian (Arnautian) element.

A testimony for the Macedonian character of this family, above all, are the ancient so called Slavic noun suffixes - Slav and slava, like
in the names Brani(slav), Stani(slav), Rado(slava) and Voi(slava) identifying their Macedonian (Slavic) origin. (Compare to: F.Barishik, and the origin of the Slavics.CXLII).

Such characteristic Macedonian (Slavic) names before Ivan and
Georgija, within their time and after, had all other landowners in the areas of today Albania, which was completely understandable, because the Mijak element since ancient times populated the whole territory of today Albania. (See documentary with: Mussachi, Lejean, Karl Hort, Arni Boue, Seiner, Hahn, MacCenzi, Irby, Pankville, Treimer etc.etc.). Georgija had never called himself Gjergj. We do not meet him under such name in no written document. Neither in the narrative nor in the epigraphic. And that the Gego-Mirdits (Arnauts) call him by such name is an unbelievable historical forgery.

Some historians, with little knowledge of the history of Albania and the
genesis of the Shgipetars (Tosks) and the Gego-Mirdits (Arnauts), today- the Albanians, make a big mistake naming Georgija with the noun supplement-Skenderbeg. He had never been Skender or Bey! In the authentic historical sources we met him only and solely with the title Macedonian (Mijak) duke, that is the Duke of Arvatia and the Duke of Epirus. (Compare with same sources).

The noun supplement Skenderbeg is a pure historical forgery. His real noun supplement is Iskender, which according to the eastern tradition means Alexander. Since the Arnautian "scientists" do not read the history, let us say why Georgija got the noun supplement Iskender (Alexander)? As it is known, in the period of 1448-1468, Georgija waged a few fierce battles with the Turks, not allowing them to conquer his native country-Arvatia, named so after the ancient Macedonian (Slavic) tribal group Arv'n. He got the noun supplement Iskender in 1455 when with his fellow tribesmen- the Mijaks, captured for the second time the town Belgrade (now Berat) from the Turks. It was named so from the sultan Mohammed II personally (1451-1481) who took part in the battle he, excited by what he had seen and experienced. (Compare with: Paganel, Bajron, Marinus
Barletius). Because of the heroism, bravery and the military tactics he used in that battle, the Turks called him "The second hero Alexander the Great", that is "the Second Alexander the Great". (See with: Bajron, Paganel and Baletius).

Not accidentally, because the armies of Georgija were not composed of Arnauts, as some writers and quasi-historians are trying to distort and forge the history, but of native Macedonian (Mijak) population. Namely at his time, at the time of Georgija, the Gego-Mirdits (Arnaurs) were not present in those areas. The Turks brought them even after about more than hundred years, after 1570 from the district Antalia in Turkey, with a purpose to protect its northern border with one-religion Muslim population. It is an unbeatable historical fact.

It is recommended to the "historian" Bejta and all other "scientists" not to deal with various lies but to look over the official censual documents of XIV, XV and XVI century (The Skadar Katastich of 1416 and the Turkish censual books of the XV and XVI century) to see that at that historical period they did not exist in the areas of today Albania. Even if one would accept the assumption that the Gegs (the Arnauts) were in the Arvanite areas, there was no reason for them to rebel against the Turks, since from their coming in the Balkan regions they were the most privileged ethnic group as well as collaborators in the government, keeping
the Macedonian element obedient by terror and violence.

The best expert in the life and revolutionary deed of Georgija Kastriot,
the Skadar priest-humanist Marinus Barletius, whose study about Georgija was published in 1493, only 26 years after his death, had never used the term Albanians and the country Albania for the population in then Arvania, but Macedonian that is Macedonia (See: Marinus Barletius, Historia de vita.pg. 22, 23, 27, 31, 68, 136, 157, 241, 259, 301, 331, 334, 337 and so on).

Only at some places we meet the term Tribal, which also means Macedonian (Slavic) population. This record testifies that at the time of Georgija Kastriot the term Albania was unknown as well as the term Albanians, not only in this part of the Balkans but in the entire civilized Europe.

Albania got its name later by the strangers- Anglo Saxons who gave the name Albania to all mountainous regions in Europe. (British Albanian, Belgian Albanian, Avstrian Albanian, that is Alpian etc.) which by the Celtic forms Alb, Alp, that is Albanik, means Mountain (See documentary and wider with: Leon Dominian's, Friunters of Language.192).

So mistaken are all today Albanians who think that the name Albania has some national ethnical or people's meaning. Namely the name Albania is a simple geographical notion. If this historical record is unknown to the Gego-Mirdits (Arnauts), then it is to be known that their real name is-Mountaineers and not some exalted forms and fixed idea, the artificially
imposed name Albania i. e Albanians looking at them as if some national omen not knowing its real etymological meaning. So, not accidentally, their supposed comrades - Shgipetars (Tosks), categorically deny that name, keeping its ancient national people's name. - Shipnija. I. e. Shiptar, so that the Gego-Mirdits (the Arnauts) looked at it irreconcilable and with contempt.

In order to count all arguments, which reject, as groundless, the romantic thesis of the Gego-Mirdits for the supposed Arnautian origin of Georgija we shall need much more space.

First and basic is that all scientists without exception, who wrote about Georgija, more than 220 studies have been written so far, state and prove with arguments that he had "Slavic" and only "Slavic" i. e. Macedonian - Mijak origin.

Second, so far the Mijaks have written over 3200 strophes for Georgija,
his bravery and heroism, out of which 17 epic songs and ballads. A part of those songs praise the Kastriot family, his wife Maria Andronika, better known as Banovica for whom a special ballad was written, as well as the state wisdom and capability of the Duke Georgija.

And the Gego-Mirdits (Arnauts) did not write any song for "their hero"! No need of any further comment about this.

Third, Georgija was not a Muslim but a faithful Orthodox Christian. He was born and died in a Mijak Orthodox Christian family, evidence are the charters of his father Ivan for the Hilendar monastery. In 1431 his elder brother Reposh was buried in the Hilendar monastery, evidence is the inscription in Old Church Slavic in the narthex of the Hilendar Cathedral with his name and year of his death. This is a sufficiently convincing record about the Kastriot family ties with this ancient Macedonian religious center.

Fourth, in the fierce battles with the Turks, Georgija was not fighting under the flag of "the Eagles", as the Arnautian "scientists" and quasi-historians of Bejta type like to say, but under the Mijak holy flag known as "A flag with a cross", with the symbol of ancient Macedonia on a red field-the Lion! According to a legend in the villages Gorno Melnichani and Pareshe there were about 14 houses of descendants of Georgija' sons, Ivan and Pavle, who kept close family relations with their relatives in the village Simona and in the town Kroja and they visited each other.

All of them" under the pressure of the wild Gegi bandits" during the Balkan wars migrated in Sophia, Salonika and Constantinople. (Kosta Zunguloski, Chronicle notes.2

The name of Kastriot Georgija is related to another very significant
event for the history of the Macedonian people.

Namely, after his death in 1468, over 200.000 Macedonians, members of the Mijak ethnic group, fearing possible revenge from the Turks, through the Rodon Gulf, at the town Leska (now Lesh), migrated, a part of them in Dalmatia and in the Venice Republic and a part in South Italy in the districts - Apulia, Calabria and Sicilia. The native Italian population called the Prishels from Arvania- Galabardnos, that is Golobrdjans (in dialect Golobrzdans), which was understandable, because a great part of those migrators originated from the district Golo Brdo, then from the bottom of the mountain Mokra and the region Chermenika, all of them in now Central Albania. (See with: K.Treimer.Lingvistisch-kultur-historische.447).

Before the end of the XIV century, in those districts, the new immigrated Macedonian population formed its own Orthodox Church municipalities and already at the beginning of the XVI century, in the heart of the Catholic Church the Macedonian orthodox eparchy was formed, known as "Italian orthodox eparchy", its first archbishop was the metropolitan Timotej. Almost three centuries that eparchy was under the Ohrid Archbishopric-Patriarchy at the time when it was the biggest church in the Christian world. Its diocese, consisted of 32 eparchies, extended from Sicilia on the west to Ukraine on the east. (See documentary, chronologically and wider with: I.S.Palamov], New documents.1-31, with: E.E. Golubinskiq, Kratkiq ocherk].120-139 and with Ier.Arseniq, Destiny of the Orthodox Church.80-91).

In order to count all merits by which the duke Georgija Kastriot
obligated Macedonia and the Macedonian nation we shall need much wider space. But the above said is enough to see who was Georgija Kastriot and how great was his real historical role, dimension and significance.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mijaks
The Mijaks (Macedonian: Мијаци, Mijaci) are a sub-group of ethnic Macedonians who primarily live in the Mijačija area, comprising of the Reka and Mala Reka regions, along the Radika river,in the west of Macedonia. They are most notable for their unique style of building and the extent to which old traditions and customs are kept alive by Mijaks.With the migration from village to city many villages now are uninhabited
 
THEN YOU ARE RIGHT
IF Sqepar- adz, from Sqep + ar
and the turks also called skeparn in areas like minor Asia smyrna and cappadokia

so then
we go to the other approach

SHQIPTAR = ISH + GIPT + AR means I AM EGYPTIAN g as wh in what if g as k the coptic
cause in byzantine egyptians even today they are called GYPT-IAN and the COPTIC KOPT-ES = COPT-ES
then THAT APPROACH FITS TO YOU,
MEANING THAT SHQIPTAR MEANS EGYPTIAN.

OR ESH + GIPT + AR = FROM EGYPT ???????
also Ash means from but only in east ionic

iapetoc
You brought up that the word Shqiptar, as the Albanians call themselves, can be associated with the word Egyptian!

And now look at one of the latest works of E1b1 haplogroup, which includes E-V13:

Beniamino Trombetta, Fulvio Cruciani, Daniele Sellitto, Rosaria Scozzari

A New Topology of the Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup E1b1 (E-P2) Revealed through the Use of Newly Characterized Binary Polymorphisms

www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016073


"Within E-M35, there are striking parallels between twohaplogroups, E-V68 and E-V257. Both contain a lineage which has been frequently observed in Africa (E-M78 and E-M81,respectively) [6,8,10,13–16] and a group of undifferentiated chromosomes that are mostly found in southern Europe (TableS2). An expansion of E-M35 carriers, possibly from the MiddleEast as proposed by other Authors [14], and split into twobranches separated by the geographic barrier of the MediterraneanSea, would explain this geographic pattern. However, the absence of E-V68* and E-V257* in the Middle East (Table S2)makes a maritime spread between northern Africa and southern Europe a more plausible hypothesis. A detailed analysis of the Y chromosomal microsatellite variation associated with E-V68 andE-V257 could help in gaining a better understanding of the likely timing and place of origin of these two haplogroups."


The authors think that the E carriers arrived by sea (ships, boats?) fom Africa to the Balkans. It is probably from the territory of today's Egypt and Libya.

So far only talked about the spread of haplogroup E in Europe through the Middle East. What do you think about the idea of Italian scientists? What has been said about it in Greek texts?
 
A testimony for the Macedonian character of this family, above all, are the ancient so called Slavic noun suffixes - Slav and slava, like
in the names Brani(slav), Stani(slav), Rado(slava) and Voi(slava) identifying their Macedonian (Slavic) origin. (Compare to: F.Barishik, and the origin of the Slavics.CXLII).

...
He was born and died in a Mijak Orthodox Christian family, evidence are the charters of his father Ivan for the Hilendar monastery. In 1431 his elder brother Reposh was buried in the Hilendar monastery, evidence is the inscription in Old Church Slavic in the narthex of the Hilendar Cathedral with his name and year of his death. This is a sufficiently convincing record about the Kastriot family ties with this ancient Macedonian religious center.

Fourth, in the fierce battles with the Turks, Georgija was not fighting under the flag of "the Eagles", as the Arnautian "scientists" and quasi-historians of Bejta type like to say, but under the Mijak holy flag known as "A flag with a cross", with the symbol of ancient Macedonia on a red field-the Lion! According to a legend in the villages Gorno Melnichani and Pareshe there were about 14 houses of descendants of Georgija' sons, Ivan and Pavle, who kept close family relations with their relatives in the village Simona and in the town Kroja and they visited each other.


There are surnames among the Serbs: Mijač, Mijak, Mijakovac etc., and names Branislav, Radoslav etc. are tipically Serbian.

And some regions and towns about you speak are Serbian, and monastery, if you think of Hilandar monastery on Mount Athos, is the monastery of the Serbian Orthodox Church and not Slavic, Slavic Church don't exist.

However, what you write is very interesting, although unchecked, only if you think it is in line with this theme (that does not wander too wide in relation to the topic).
 
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It would be interesting to read your thoughts - which one of the languages below is the ancestor language of todays Albanian language:

Balkan-map.png


It is not known.

According Robert Eslie in "Earlies Reference to the Existance of the Albanian Language", the first time Albanian language is referred by Europeans in a period from 1285 to 1332 AD.
 
what has to do real Greek makedonia with tito-bulgares bardaska????
if i give 20 sources then will you ask for sorry???
besides even the catholic church names him greek via PIUS 2 and gregory WTF cant remember,
kastrioti is an internatioal.
besides in kastriotis army were the arbanites suliotes, etc
and some of the families that followed castrioti are today albanians,
and 1 family from montenegro and 1-2 serbian families,
i tired of kastrioti, if i bring you sources you will see never heard before, even turks consider him yunan not rum.
besides his family as aryianites family part of them leaves in Greek macedonia and were among Douka-Comneni.
there are many said about him and your evidence are very small,
i believe he was Greek and i have evidence,
you say he was a slavian
an albanian says he was an albanian,
plz that is propaganda and it is out of subject

Garrick altough i m polytheist i have been to holy mountain and to Hillandar,
i guess you never, at travell most of it 40 times, i love the place, and have been more than 40 times,
but the man wanted to burried in the ancient greek city lissos, today letzh in albania,
now about slavian
there are many orthox chuches,
1 serbian orthodox with patriarch
2 russian orthodox with patriarch
3 bulgarian exarchy no patriarch
and another one in lithuania or moldavia i dont remember
All these speak slavian
as hilandar is the serbian the provata is the rumanian erea
the panteleimon is russian and
iviron the georgian
vatopedi the cyprus
zografou the bulgarian

kastrioti was orthodox thats why the rome gave him only 3 000 small golden coins and no man,
that is why the tarantines was hes west enemy, and claim the catholic albania via Alba of anju,
the war there was between 4
1 kastrioti
2 normands italians princes etc
3 turks
4 baraba pasa for whom greek arbanites consider him the betrayal, 'amoirousis' of the west
besides his son was supported by palaiologos warriors like crocodile kladas

ok plz stop it kastrioti besides here i live there are villages that came from kastrioti army, which in 1750 unite with moesian vlachs and make an indipedent area, and it was ali pasa who fought with them,
 
what has to do real Greek makedonia with tito-bulgares bardaska????
if i give 20 sources then will you ask for sorry???
besides even the catholic church names him greek via PIUS 2 and gregory WTF cant remember,
kastrioti is an internatioal.
besides in kastriotis army were the arbanites suliotes, etc
and some of the families that followed castrioti are today albanians,
and 1 family from montenegro and 1-2 serbian families,
i tired of kastrioti, if i bring you sources you will see never heard before, even turks consider him yunan not rum.
besides his family as aryianites family part of them leaves in Greek macedonia and were among Douka-Comneni.
there are many said about him and your evidence are very small,
i believe he was Greek and i have evidence,
you say he was a slavian
an albanian says he was an albanian,
plz that is propaganda and it is out of subject

Garrick altough i m polytheist i have been to holy mountain and to Hillandar,
i guess you never, at travell most of it 40 times, i love the place, and have been more than 40 times,
but the man wanted to burried in the ancient greek city lissos, today letzh in albania,
now about slavian
there are many orthox chuches,
1 serbian orthodox with patriarch
2 russian orthodox with patriarch
3 bulgarian exarchy no patriarch
and another one in lithuania or moldavia i dont remember
All these speak slavian
as hilandar is the serbian the provata is the rumanian erea
the panteleimon is russian and
iviron the georgian
vatopedi the cyprus
zografou the bulgarian

kastrioti was orthodox thats why the rome gave him only 3 000 small golden coins and no man,
that is why the tarantines was hes west enemy, and claim the catholic albania via Alba of anju,
the war there was between 4
1 kastrioti
2 normands italians princes etc
3 turks
4 baraba pasa for whom greek arbanites consider him the betrayal, 'amoirousis' of the west
besides his son was supported by palaiologos warriors like crocodile kladas

ok plz stop it kastrioti besides here i live there are villages that came from kastrioti army, which in 1750 unite with moesian vlachs and make an indipedent area, and it was ali pasa who fought with them,

iapetoc
Great on this clarification, you are made clear to us another important issue.

I mostly wrote because the monastery, since Chilandar is the monastery of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

Of course, every Slavic Orthodox country has its own church and the Patriarchate, but there is no some kind of unique Slavic Orthodox Church.

No, I was not there, you're completely right, I've been in Greece several times, and certainly I will go many more times, Greece is a beautiful country, and one day I will be intend to visit Mount Athos.

But, I agree not to depart too much from the topic.

I'm interested in what you think about the idea of Italian scholars that E carriers from Africa arrived by sea from Africa to the Balkans, and is there something to talk about ancient Greek texts?
 
"There are surnames among the Serbs: Mijač, Mijak, Mijakovac etc., and names Branislav, Radoslav etc. are tipically Serbian."
What have the names to do with the Mijak Tribe?
Did the Mijak tribe speak and write Serbian or did they claim their serbian identity?

Serbians are invented history like the rest of the neighbours of Macedonia.
Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania is fake countries with fake population.
Cyrillic alphabet, slavic language, to get an independent church, all this was given to the Serbs by the Macedonians.
These countries use Macedonian traditional songs, history and make them as their own. Once the Serbs where slavs, white serbs, old serbs, yugoslavs, montenegrins, rascians and again serbs if you dont know what you are, why change the name of your country? Neither was the location of the country and people they claim belonging to on same place and no genetics that prove your slavic ancestry, if so link to the slavic DNA. If you want to play with word matching that is your own problems. We dont believe in word matching neither do the rest here on the forum.


Tsar Stefan Dushan (Macedonian Tsar?)

In Skopje in 1349 Stefan Dushan issued its own Code, which, unfortunately, is not preserved in original, but dozen copies were saved and that’s how we get the information about this historic figure.
Dushan's Code begins with the words "Code of Reverend and in Christ loving Macedonian Tsar Stefan,Serbian ruler, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Vlach, Dalmatian, Arbanas, and many other regions and countries." This is noted in the Zagrebian (Croatian), Ravanician (Serbia), Sofian (Bulgaria) transcript of Dushan's Code. Dushan's Code with Stefan Dusan as a Macedonian king to be find in the book the Lj. Stojanovic: (Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949).) Even the famous Edith Durham in her book "High Albania", first edition, printed in the distant 1909 talk about the Macedonians, where she quoted Dushan's Code "Code of Tsar Dusan Macedonian, autocrat of Serbia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Wallachia, .." (Edith Durham, "High Albania" First published in 1909, page 294. In London Edward Arnold Publishers to the India Office 1909).

King Dusan proclaimed himself for Macedonian king, but not because he was Macedonian, but for someone to proclaim himself a king, or emperor in medieval times had to take the crown of a kingdom that existed previously. And what kingdom would that be if not the kingdom of Samuel! Knowing that Kosara, daughter of Samuel married DuklaPrince John Vladimir, who was a prisoner at Samuil's royal palace. However, lucky for him, thanks to the love of Kosara, he was pardoned and became son in-law of Samuel, but also part of the family.
Is there any greater evidence that would challenge the contention of some Bulgarian historians that Samuil’s state was Bulgarian? According to medieval law, the king's crown could be obtained only from the patriarch. When Emperor Dusan governed the whole territory of Macedonia in his state was found two autocephalous Archbishopry, the one of Ohrid and Pech. Soon Dusan decided to proclaim himself a king. Therefore it was necessary the Pech archdiocese to be declared for patriarchate. It was helped by the Ohrid Archbishop and the TrnovoPatriarch. The both Holy Synods and the Patriarch of Trnovo came, and both of them proclaimed Joannicius II for patriarch, and then the three church dignitaries coronate Dusan in a king. The participation of the Macedonian superior - Ohrid Archbishop was considered as a substitute for the Ecumenical Patriarch, who canceled his attendance in the coronation. Any changes in the Serbian state and church were done with the participation and the blessing of the Macedonian archbishop.
Whether in this case we should close our eyes when the same Macedonian church today is denied? This historical fact, in the 19th century disturbed the Serbian intelligence, which was in its infancy, that’s why there are many falsifications of the Serbian medieval documents in their re-publishing in the 19th century.

Mikloshich Franz, who along with Vuk Karadzic for the first time published documents of the medieval Serbian history, in the monumental work "Monumenta Serbica", the title of King Dusan from the Sofian and Ravanic entry is communicated as "Stephen the faithful in Lord Christ and Greek King" (F. Miklošič, Monumenta Serbica, str 154). But in the transcripts of Dushan's Code clearly states “Stephen the faithful in Lord Christ and Macedonian King". From there comes our suspicion, that wherever is mentioned the Macedonian name, Serbian historians and transcribers of the Serbian medieval documents of the 19th century, the word "Macedonian" where replacing with "Greek" or "Romaic”. To this we can add the historical fact of King Dusan published in the oldest history of South Slavic peoples" Historia Turcica "(1502) from Petanchich Felix (from Dubrovnik), who was miniaturist and manager of Budim scriptorium and primarily an outstanding diplomat at the court of Matija Korvin and Vladislav II. In "Historia Turcica" is stated that King Dusan is king of the Macedonians and Rascians, in original "Macedonum Rasianorum Caesar" (Historia Turcica (1502), Municipal Library in Nuremberg, 31.2). Petanchich Felix (1455-1517) is considered one of the best turkologyst of all time. Unfortunately, Tsar Dusan in our history books is presented as the king of the Serbs and Greeks, ie. in the propaganda which our neighbors are serving for our history since the 19th century. Furthermore, King Volkasin (father of King Mark) and his brother Uglesha in the Synodicon of Tsar Boril (Boril's Synodicon) from the 14th century, is represented as a Macedonian king. I do not know the reason why in our history textbooks do not tell this fact and our children learn that the current Macedonian are pure Slavs, and began to call themselves Macedonians until the 19th century, that we are a new nation and that we, as Slavs, are so close with the Serbs and Bulgarians, perhaps so we can dissolve in their nations.
I have never seen another nation except Macedonian to deny itself despite the historical written documents and facts about its existence.


Victor A Friedman

"Macedonian slavic is the root to all slavic languages"

Victor Friedman received his B.A. in Russian Language and Literature from Reed College in 1970 and his Ph. D. in both Slavic Languages and Literatures and in General Linguistics from the University of Chicago in 1975. This was the first joint degree granted in the Division of the Humanities at Chicago, and his dissertation, “The Grammatical Categories of the Macedonian Indicative” won the Mark Perry Galler prize for the best dissertation in the Humanities Division that year. From 1975 to 1993 he taught in the Department of Slavic Languages at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, where he chaired the Department from 1987 to 1993. In 1993 he moved to the University of Chicago, where he is Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities with a joint appointment in Linguistics and Slavic Languages and Literatures and an associate appointment in Anthropology. He has over 200 publications, and The Grammatical Categories of the Macedonian Indicative (Slavica, 1977) was the first book on Modern Macedonian published in the United States.

Friedman has done fieldwork in the Balkans for over thirty-five years and has received research grants from Fulbright-Hays, IREX, ACLS, NEH, APS, etc. In 1982 he received the "1300 Years of Bulgaria" jubilee medal for contributions to the field of Bulgarian studies. In 1991 and again in 2003, he was awarded the University of Skopje Gold Plaque for contributions to the field of Macedonian studies, and in 1994 he was elected to the Macedonian Academy of Arts and Sciences. In 1995 he was elected to Matica Srpska, and in 2004 he was elected to the Academy of Arts and Sciences of Kosova. During the Yugoslav Wars of Succession, he worked as a Senior Policy and Political Analyst for the Analysis and Assessment Unit of the United Nations Protection Forces stationed in former Yugoslavia (summer 1994), joined a fact finding mission for the South Balkan Project of the Center for Preventive Action of the Council on Foreign Relations (1995-1997), consulted for the International Crisis Group (1997), and did some work with the United States Institute for Peace (1999-2000). He has been a visiting scholar at Cornell (Balkan linguistics, LSA summer institute 1997), University of Skopje (Balkan Identity, 1999), Central European University-Budapest (Romani linguistics 1999, 2001, 2003), Kyoto University (Balkan linguistics, 1999), National University of Malaysia (Southeast Europe/Southeast Asia: Comparative Perspectives, 2000), University of Helsinki (Balkan linguistics, 2000), University of Prishtina (Balkan and Caucasian linguistics, 2002), and LaTrobe University (Research Center for Linguistic Typology, Balkan linguistics, 2004).

Friedman’s research centers on grammatical categories (particularly the verb), language contact, and sociolinguistics (especially problems of variation and standardization) in the Balkans and the Caucasus. Owing to the intimate connections of language with politics and ethnic identity in these parts of the world, his work has of necessity been interdisciplinary. His publications deal with the following languages: Albanian, Aromanian (Vlah), Azeri, Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (especially the Torlak dialects), Bulgarian, Georgian, Greek, Judezmo, Lak, Macedonian, Megleno-Romanian, Romani, Romanian, Russian, Tadjik, Turkish.

"We know what Ancient Greek, Latin, and Old Church Slavonic, and Sanskrit look liked, and we have Turkic texts going back to the 8th century. We know what these languages looked like in the early medieval period. For Albanian, our oldest significant texts are from the early modern period. We know these changes, these grammatical influences, were taking place in the late medieval and early Ottoman periods (although some are older in some languages). It was really in the Ottoman period that the Balkan languages as we know them today came to resemble one another."

"The Bulgarians didn’t have a state until the Russo-Turkish War of 1878."

"Arvanatika - Most precisely, it refers to the Albanian dialects of Greece that separated from the main body of Tosk Albanian 600-1000 years ago. The dialects were spoken on many Greek islands, the Peloponnese, and in Attica and Central Greece. Greeks don’st like to admit it, but they have had large Albanian-speaking populations for a very long time, not just post-Communist economic migrants. While these dialects are now moribund owing to hegemonistic Greek language policies, they can still be encountered in places like Livadhia."

"But already in the 19th century, Macedonian speakers were calling themselves Macedonians (Makedontsi), their language, Makedonski. This is documented.
Some Macedonian speakers identified as Bulgarians,Serbs, Greeks or Turks, depending on religious loyalties, but most of the time, speakers called themselves Christians or Turks (Muslims)."


This shows that todays inhabitants of the modern balkan countries are of mixed origin = all.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h..._ethnic_groups
Y-DNA haplogroups by ethnic groups
Listed here are notable ethnic groups by Y-DNA haplogroups based on relevant studies. The data is presented in two columns for each haplogroup with the first being the sample size (n) and the second the percentage in the haplogroup designated by the column header. The samples are taken from individuals identified with the ethnic and linguistic designations in the first two columns.


E1b1b

Albania: 21.6% & 25.5% (2 tests)
Kosovo: 47.4%
Greece: 20.8%, 23.8% & 31.6% (3 tests)
Macedonia (FYROM): 24.1%
Bulgaria: 20.7%
Serbia: 21.2%
Croatia: 5.6%
Egypt: 43.5%
 
Serbians are invented history like the rest of the neighbours of Macedonia.
Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania is fake countries with fake population.
Cyrillic alphabet, slavic language, to get an independent church, all this was given to the Serbs by the Macedonians.

Your ultra-nationalism hurts my head, put down the drugs and go for a walk. Cyril and methodil were Greek speaking Romans from thessaloniki that gave the slavs their own alphabet in order to faster christianize them, as they resisted the pressure to learn Greek being pushed on them from Constantinople. This alphabet was based of the greek alphabet. These slavs that moved into the region were no more macedonian than serbians and bulgarians.

Bulgaria lost the second balkan war, get over it, its over, macedonia is back into greek hands. Tito is dead, yet his zombies still walk the earth.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h..._ethnic_groups
Y-DNA haplogroups by ethnic groups
Listed here are notable ethnic groups by Y-DNA haplogroups based on relevant studies. The data is presented in two columns for each haplogroup with the first being the sample size (n) and the second the percentage in the haplogroup designated by the column header. The samples are taken from individuals identified with the ethnic and linguistic designations in the first two columns.


E1b1b

Albania: 21.6% & 25.5% (2 tests)
Kosovo: 47.4%
Greece: 20.8%, 23.8% & 31.6% (3 tests)
Macedonia (FYROM): 24.1%
Bulgaria: 20.7%
Serbia: 21.2%
Croatia: 5.6%
Egypt: 43.5%

There are recent studies for E haplogroup in Europe in which, for example:

Nort Albania 41,21%

Serbia 17,3% (about 16% of the population Serbia are minorities)

Montenegro 27,0% (Montenegro population belongs to various ethnic groups)

for Romania the data are different, but less than 20% if you gathered all.


According to data, E haplogroup in Europe is dominant in Gege Albanians (North Albania, Western Macedonia, South Montenegro, South Serbia etc.).

Yes, according to data in Egypt E haplogroup is most widespread.
 
"There are recent studies for E haplogroup in Europe"
Is it hard to link source?

Maybe they are not fake but not homogenous either. We dont know how many people are connected from the first beginning of the period of a country´s historical existence that means all countries must rewrite from what period they are claiming and how they connect to it.
Today its all about the right of self-detemination and that have nothing to do with real origin.
 
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