Macedonians

two sampled places in area of Peloponnese:
Patrai on north - not Dorian area, Achaean area of influence
Lerna/Franchthi - east part - Dorian area of influence..

thus, L/F should have much more Dorian element than Patras

Patrai - 11.1% R1b, 5,6% R1a, 44% DE, 11,1% I, 16,7% J2, 0% G2
L/F - 15.8% R1b, 1,8% R1a, 35%DE, 21,2% I, 14,2% (+1.8%) J2, 5.3% G2

now 14,2% J2 in L/F is way too small if Dorians were J2... and it is even less than in non-Dorian Patrai... thus, Dorians were for sure not J2 dominant people or R1a dominant people....they could have been haplogroup I (not known how much of it is I2a2 and how much other branches)

there is also hotspot of haplogroup I in west central part of Crete (Rethymnon)...

haplogroup I could also be due to Slavic people who did massivelly settle Peloponnese....

could Dorians have been R1b dominant?
there is R1b on Crete as well
 
Hellen (Greek: Ἕλλην; Katharevousa: ([ˈelːin] ( listen)) was the mythological patriarch of the Hellenes (Greek: Ἕλληνες), the son of Deucalion (or sometimes Zeus) and Pyrrha, brother of Amphictyon and father of Aeolus, Xuthus, and Dorus. His name is also another name for Greek, meaning a person of Greek descent or pertaining to Greek culture, and the source of the adjective "Hellenic".
Each of his sons founded a primary tribe of Greece: Aeolus the Aeolians, Dorus the Dorians and Xuthus the Achaeans (from Xuthus's son Achaeus) and the Ionians (from Xuthus's probably illegitimate son Ionas). According to Hesiod's Catalogue of Women (Greek: Ἠοῖαι), Hellen's sisters, Pandora and Thyia, were impregnated by Zeus in which the former gave birth to Graecus of the Graecians and the latter gave birth to Makednos of the Makedónes and Magnes of the Magnetes.

They conquered the Greek area of Phthia and subsequently spread their rule to other Greek cities. The people of those areas came to be called Hellenes, after the name of their ancestor. The ethnonym Hellenes dates back to the time of Homer. In the Iliad, "Hellas" (Greek: Ἑλλάς) and "Hellenes" were names of the tribe (also called "Myrmidones") settled in Phthia, led by Achilles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellen

Macedons are not Dorians according to this myth.... in fact they are related to Greeks by female line....

My interpretation of myths is that new nation is born when one tribe subjugate other, subjugated tribe is represented in myths with female person, and the ruller tribe as male person....normally in those times man of winner side would take over woman of losing side...hence the relation to male line and female line...

I do not know how to interpret Zeus as father in this case... but dominant YDNA haplogroup in ancient Macedonians being likely R1a might be about non-Greek R1a tribe conquering Greek tribe represented by Thyia... culture and language might have been from mother side...


Interestingly, term Hellen in time of Illiad applied only to Myrmidones...or ant people...
The Myrmidons (or Myrmidones; Greek: Μυρμιδόνες) are people of ancient Greek mythology. They are very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and are commanded by Achilles.[1] Their eponymous ancestor was Myrmidon, a king of Thessalian Phthia who was a son of Zeus and "wide-ruling" Eurymedousa, a princess of Phthia. She was seduced by Zeus in the form of an ant. An etiological myth of their origins, simply expanding upon their supposed etymology — the name in Classical Greek was interpreted as "ant-people", from μυρμηδών (murmedon) "ant's nest"[2] and that from μύρμηξ (murmex) "ant"[3] — was first mentioned by Ovid, in Metamorphoses: in Ovid's telling, King Aeacus of Aegina, father of Peleus, pleaded with Zeus to populate his country after a terrible plague. Zeus said his people would number as the ants on his sacred oak, and from the ants sprang the people of Aegina, the Myrmidons.
According to Homer's Iliad, the Myrmidons were the fiercest warriors in all of Greece. As said in Iliad, "Go home, then, with your ships and comrades to lord it over the Myrmidons".

[edit]Later use of the term

The Myrmidons of Greek myth were known for their loyalty to their leaders, so that in pre-industrial Europe the word "myrmidon" carried many of the same connotations that "robot" does today. Myrmidon later came to mean "hired ruffian" (according to the Oxford English Dictionary) or "a loyal follower, especially one who executes orders without question, protest, or pity - unquestioning followers." (Dictionary.com).
Myrmidons is also the title of the first of a trilogy of plays by Aeschylus, collectively known as Achilles. The other plays in the trilogy are Nereids and Phrygians. See Achilles (play) for more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrmidons

Zeus is again the father... but in shape of ant... this might be about foreign people who are somehow identified with ants subjugating Thesaly represented by Eurymedousa, a princess of Phthia.... as Zeus is explanation for everything (easier than to realize that other side was better in waging war) than it was Zeus disguised in those people who subjugated the tribe....
 
How yes no

first
in the area of makedonia you have only 2 cities

1 is Serres in ex thracian land
2 is saloniki which is a town from roman hugeeeee,
emany times roman army setlle there

you don't show me elements of west Makedonia which the 2 stronghold,
not even ematheia or pieria which is the Argeiads stronghold,
why? in purpose?
I pass
although remember that saloniki from ancient romans was center of universal trade and roman emperrors settle there

2nd according to dienekes we dont know the r1a if it is medieval or ancient,

let me remind you that in salonike you may find even normand dna and icelandic
cause until 1912 was the 1 rst in balkans trade city and 2 nd in ottomans after con/polis

and salonique was ocupied by romans serbs bulgars francais normand turks
salonique in 1900 had 15 official minorities except turk rulers
 
How yes no

first
in the area of makedonia you have only 2 cities

1 is Serres in ex thracian land
2 is saloniki which is a town from roman hugeeeee,
emany times roman army setlle there

you don't show me elements of west Makedonia which the 2 stronghold,
not even ematheia or pieria which is the Argeiads stronghold,
why? in purpose?
I pass
although remember that saloniki from ancient romans was center of universal trade and roman emperrors settle there

2nd according to dienekes we dont know the r1a if it is medieval or ancient,

let me remind you that in salonike you may find even normand dna and icelandic
cause until 1912 was the 1 rst in balkans trade city and 2 nd in ottomans after con/polis

I gave you the data that I could find about Greek genetics... don't kill the messenger... Dienekes is Greek patriot, so I guess you can trust that he didnot forge the data he collected from several articles about Greeks.....
I wish that there is more data about genetics of certain areas too... If I manage to find some more data I will post it... I know there was comparative research for Italy and Greece, but do not know if that is included in Dienekes compilation.... also in that research you can clearly see on maps how ancient Macedonia sticks out from the rest of Greece genetically...

btw. what do you think about my interpretation of myth of Hellenic people and where Macedonians fit.....

my opinion is that it is about non-Greek R1a tribe that conquered some Greek tribe and was more or less hellenized.... hence relation to other Hellenic people via female line...
 
ok I agree with youin a point

but then you check the Italy were Greca-ni lives in south italy like Letse Taranto

Apulia

these were Greeks colonies, so if the had R1a that should move to Italy to colonies in East sicily and apulia etc
in the map the half area of Greek colonisation has R1a but the biggest part falls dramatically
meaning that R1a if it is connected with normands of sicily etc, or the latin crusade (4rth) cause slavic invasion in italy it is not mentioned

that is why even today the I2a and R1a is a question for Greeks
the I2a we know it is connected with persothracian and with Pre Greek locals
before pelasgians

the problem to make it more clear is that in area of Greece we have today other ratio than in a colony of ancient time of the same city,

for example the R1a which is important to you drops dramatically in magna Grecia,
Why?
on the other it is so old that could exists in Greece before,
same but not so dramatically is the I2a
the above makes many questions

that is why to find out the dominant of a Greek tribe you must search in specific areas, for example in Crimea you find peculiar results in spoted areas that does not suit with general distribute, that is of a colonization you go back and check the results in today people, and you can have a view of ancienty

sorry about the data, i know them also,
But if Makedonians were R1a in the cities they build, would be a good R1a,
but that is missing or is very low in Alexandreia Egypt, or Syria, etc, in fact it is more far east


No for zeus and women is not what you see
cause Zeus also steal Europa from Phoenicia to Crete ....
So Zeus is Greek that time, but we don't know his name,


It is a weding tradition in Greece to steal the Bride

as also every Blessed child is from Zeus,
Besides R1b kings today Aren't they Ελεω Θεου
instead of God Save Greeks had God's Son, it is same

or davinci code or holy grail, or Jesus ..... son of God
that is the meaning of Zeus son

to understand it better
If not troyan war happened
Hellen of troy was taken by zeus to troy
she made 3 sons etc
later (when Zeus bored) she was married to Paris
that will be the story if troyan war did not happened

the body of Zeus will be the symbol of troy for example if troy had famoys geese
then Zeus charmed Hellen as a goose

cretan - Bull
myrmidons - ant etc


as an example of the colonization search
city A today has Ydna B at 20%
in colony A1 has spoted not wide 10 % in a wide 4 %
in colony A2 has spoted 25% in a wide 20%
that leads me to say city A had B Ydna in far anciety

But if City A has 20 %
and colony A1 has 2 % in a wide 2%
and colony A2 has 1%
sorry city A had lower B Ydna in far past

by following that you can find many dominants
and believe me the I2a and R1a drops, and raises the J2 and E outside Aegean,
But I2a is stable in Aegean colonization and falls slowly to ionic and Doric colonies of Pontus
 
ok I agree with youin a point

but then you check the Italy were Greca-ni lives in south italy like Letse Taranto

Apulia

these were Greeks colonies, so if the had R1a that should move to Italy to colonies in East sicily and apulia etc
in the map the half area of Greek colonisation has R1a but the biggest part falls dramatically
meaning that R1a if it is connected with normands of sicily etc, or the latin crusade (4rth) cause slavic invasion in italy it is not mentioned

that is why even today the I2a and R1a is a question for Greeks
the I2a we know it is connected with persothracian and with Pre Greek locals
before pelasgians

the problem to make it more clear is that in area of Greece we have today other ratio than in a colony of ancient time of the same city,

for example the R1a which is important to you drops dramatically in magna Grecia,
Why?
on the other it is so old that could exists in Greece before,
same but not so dramatically is the I2a
the above makes many questions

that is why to find out the dominant of a Greek tribe you must search in specific areas, for example in Crimea you find peculiar results in spoted areas that does not suit with general distribute, that is of a colonization you go back and check the results in today people, and you can have a view of ancienty

sorry about the data, i know them also,
But if Makedonians were R1a in the cities they build, would be a good R1a,
but that is missing or is very low in Alexandreia Egypt, or Syria, etc, in fact it is more far east


No for zeus and women is not what you see
cause Zeus also steal Europa from Phoenicia to Crete ....
So Zeus is Greek that time, but we don't know his name,

It is a weding tradition in Greece to steal the Bride
as also every Blessed child is from Zeus,
Besides R1b kings today Aren't they Ελεω Θεου
instead of God Save Greeks had God's Son, it is same
or davinci code or holy grail, or Jesus ..... son of God
that is the meaning of Zeus son

to understand it better
If not troyan war happened
Hellen of troy was taken by zeus to troy
she made 3 sons etc
later (when Zeus bored) she was married to Paris
that will be the story if troyan war did not happened

the body of Zeus will be the symbol of troy for example if troy had famoys geese
then Zeus charmed Hellen as a goose

cretan - Bull
myrmidons - ant etc


as an example of the colonization search
city A today has Ydna B at 20%
in colony A1 has spoted not wide 10 % in a wide 4 %
in colony A2 has spoted 25% in a wide 20%
that leads me to say city A had B Ydna in far anciety

But if City A has 20 %
and colony A1 has 2 % in a wide 2%
and colony A2 has 1%
sorry city A had lower B Ydna in far past

by following that you can find many dominants
and believe me the I2a and R1a drops, and raises the J2 and E outside Aegean,
But I2a is stable in Aegean colonization and falls slowly to ionic and Doric colonies of Pontus

Iapetoc,
excellent analysis.

I gave on other topics historical sources which Thracians or Thracian tribes equate with Serbs.

Connecting with your words:

the I2a we know it is connected with persothracian and with Pre Greek locals
before pelasgians

we come to the knowledge of linking I carriers in the past with the Serbs, and the continuity of Thracian Serbian presence.

Now things become much clearer about I bearers in the Balkans.
 
Garrick not exactly

The I carriers were here before the serbs as the devastasion is mentioned before history,
simply the serbian rulling class and culture took a new Identity after 500 AD but the majority of people were hear before the invasion, simply south slavic devastation sums some quantities and change culture by changing ruling class
 
Garrick not exactly

The I carriers were here before the serbs as the devastasion is mentioned before history,
simply the serbian rulling class and culture took a new Identity after 500 AD but the majority of people were hear before the invasion, simply south slavic devastation sums some quantities and change culture by changing ruling class

Iapetoc
I gave the answer on the topic: Who were and are the Serbs and their DNA, # 70.

Both today’s Serbs and Proto Serbs are I people. And Serbian ruling class in the Middle Ages very probably were I carriers.

Serbian nationalists are trying to say that Serbian ruling elites in the Middle Ages were R1a, but it is not true, and Nemanjices and others, with very high probability, they were I bearers.

R1a in the Balkans is a very very old and has nothing in common with the Serbian nobility in the Middle Ages.

Interestingly, the Americans carried out the researchings haplogroup some famous Americans of Serbian origin and they were I bearers.

And for the Serbian nobility there is no doubt that were I dominant, but it is important to explore very old cultures, for example Vincians.

Interestingly, the I people, according my knowledge, have never been numerous in the region of the Aegean and Ionian Sea.

I people have settled around the great rivers, such as the Danube, Neretva, Vardar and so on.

The biggest mystery is when and why I people received the language and culture R1a carriers. But it could be a very long time since I and R1a people thousands of years lived together in the Balkans.

So, and it has nothing to do with the medieval Serbian nobility, or some other elite.
 
And for the Serbian nobility there is no doubt that were I dominant, but it is important to explore very old cultures, for example Vincians.

why do you keep talking of Vincans and keep equating them with proto-Serbs? there are not much indicators that suggest such a connection...

haplogroup I2a2 does indeed show spread along Danube so Vincans could have been I2a (which doesnot mean they were)...

but if you know haplogroups of Vincans that still doesnot tell you anything about proto-Serbs (unless Vincans were both R1a and I2a2 with exact lineages as today in Serbia), as Vincans easily might have been completely unrelated to proto-Serbs....
 
Garrick the Greek can be recon by colonization and sea trade roads,
J2 main and after E-V13 has connection

the I2 people if you watch are sweet waters civilization,

whats in minor asia in the 2 rives,
whatch in balkans in the aquatic systems

the R1a in balkans we dont know if it is connected with Medieval or far ancienty
 
why do you keep talking of Vincans and keep equating them with proto-Serbs? there are not much indicators that suggest such a connection...

haplogroup I2a2 does indeed show spread along Danube so Vincans could have been I2a (which doesnot mean they were)...

but if you know haplogroups of Vincans that still doesnot tell you anything about proto-Serbs (unless Vincans were both R1a and I2a2 with exact lineages as today in Serbia), as Vincans easily might have been completely unrelated to proto-Serbs....

How yes no
I'm thinking more in the sense that it is useful to perform Y-DNA test for Vinicians, because it would answer some important questions.

Sure, you can be right, ie. maybe this test and did not answer, but certainly it will be worth a try and may prove an important result.
 
Garrick the Greek can be recon by colonization and sea trade roads,
J2 main and after E-V13 has connection

the I2 people if you watch are sweet waters civilization,

whats in minor asia in the 2 rives,
whatch in balkans in the aquatic systems

the R1a in balkans we dont know if it is connected with Medieval or far ancienty

Iapetoc
Ok, someone may interpret that I people are sea people when looking at the island of Sardinia, for example.

Yes, I people have settled part of the Adriatic and Black Sea.

But this may be due to lowering down the river Neretva and Dnepr and Dnestr.

However, I people from Anatolia did not come to the shores of the Middle East and North Africa, but they went to Iran and other inland parts, again led by rivers.

This is looking at the schedule I people in Balkans, Eastern Europe and Asia.
 
Garrick the Greek can be recon by colonization and sea trade roads,
J2 main and after E-V13 has connection

the I2 people if you watch are sweet waters civilization,

whats in minor asia in the 2 rives,
whatch in balkans in the aquatic systems

the R1a in balkans we dont know if it is connected with Medieval or far ancienty

correct
J2 has clear correlation with spread along sea coasts and I2 along rivers...
also R1a in Balkan is still kind of enigma... I would like to see more research in Sorbs....

however, I think that Slavic settlers might have been dominantly I2a2 because I2a2 is single common dominant element for all south Slavs, because I2a2 distinguish FYRM Macedonians from FYRM Albanians, while R1a is fairly even spread among them... because Slavic Montenegro has twice less R1a than non-Slavic Albanians of Macedonia.....

and also because Peloponesse that was massively settled by Slavs shows 22% of haplogroup I and only 1.8% of R1a...though more sampling is needed to have conclusive theory about this as sampling might have been in area that has not much Slavic influence...
 
In Europe, R1a, again almost entirely in the R1a1a sub-clade, is found at highest levels among peoples of Eastern European descent (Sorbs, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians; 50 to 65%). In the Baltic countries R1a frequencies decrease from Lithuania (45%) to Estonia (around 30%). Levels in Hungarians have been noted between 20 and 60%.
In Southern Europe R1a1a is not common amongst the general population, but it is widespread in certain areas. Significant levels have been found in pockets, such as in the Pas Valley in Northern Spain, areas of Venice, and Calabria in Italy. The Balkans shows lower frequencies, and significant variation between areas, for example >30% in Slovenia, Croatia and Greek Macedonia, but <10% in Albania, Kosovo and parts of Greece.





R-M458_frequency_distribution.PNG


Haplogroup_R_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a_(Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R1a_frequency_by_population
 
How yes no

now as you see from the above dejavu post the R1a in greek makedonia is a mystery,
that is why i make an argue for data,
cause Iknow that the more the west the more E the more midlle the more J2 the more east and north I2a raises,
my other question is the R1b in Greece, for me should be more Anatolian - minor asia than central European it should be connected with south Pontic areas than with celtic,

I believe that a search in body relicks of ancienty could help, although many sarcophagus have ashes

Now about I2a as a slavic, hmmm many times i connect it with perso thracian, and before J2 And E in balkans, but could it north carpathian or tatra and moved south later?

the trouble with I2a is that has slavic language and viking elements but it is not as R1a, in known expansion lands,
seems like I2a and R1a speak same language, but are tottaly independent in their moves and kingdoms, and not cooperative
 
Last edited:
How yes no

now as you see from the above dejavu post the R1a in greek makedonia is a mystery,
that is why i make an argue for data,
cause Iknow that the more the west the more E the more midlle the more J2 the more east and north I2a raises,
my other question is the R1b in Greece, for me should be more Anatolian - minor asia than central European it should be connected with south Pontic areas than with celtic,

I believe that a search in body relicks of ancienty could help, although many sarcophagus have ashes

Now about I2a as a slavic, hmmm many times i connect it with perso thracian, and before J2 And E in balkans, but could it north carpathian or tatra and moved south later?

the trouble with I2a is that has slavic language and viking elements but it is not as R1a, in known expansion lands,
seems like I2a and R1a speak same language, but are tottaly independent in their moves and kingdoms, and not cooperative

Iapetoc
There are a lot of different informations.

For example, the linguist Sergei Rjabichkov has long researched and published a lot of books, one of them is:

Rjabichkov, Sergei V. 1998th Ancient texty Slavyan and adygov

Interestingly, the author claims:

Reading of a Linear A Text, Cretan tablets

Reading of the text of the Phaistos Disk

corespond (proto) Slavonic language.

http://slavonicweb.chat.ru/disk.htm

Total by this author Proto Slavonic languages are three:

1) the Scythian (Sarmatian) language is the Proto-Slavonic ones

2) Other Proto-Slavonic dialects are the languages of the Pelasges (the writing of Linear A, and its decorative version on the Phaistos disk) and

3) of the Etruscans.
 
Acording to M. Iunian Iustin, in Epitoma, Macedonia early, was inhabited by pelasgian and in that time was called Emathia.

Even Homer does'nt speak anywhere of Macedonia.

The term Macedonia for the first time was used by Herodotus in th 5-th century.

Then, what is "Macedonia" and What is "Emathia"?

Macedonia is greek term to call that land, which by authoctonous pelasgians (emathians) was called Emathia. It is related to "megas" and means "tall, big or great".

The same is for Emathia, but it is not in greek, but in albanian, "e mathe" in south dialect (which is near Macedonia), means (big, tall, or great).

The first man to go in Olympian games was Alexander, the great-grandfather of Aleksander the Great.

The ancient Macedonians, were not greek, nor slavs. They were akin to Illyrians and Thracians, both to be pretended by majority of scholars as ancestors of albanians.

I think a Balkan historian, which doesn't know albanian language is a blind in his studies, because it is the only language to be compared with greek, and to explain the root of macedonian, thracian and illyrian and even greek words.
 
It seems, that Herodotus translated Emathia to Macedonia.
 
Neander
may I remind you that The ancient Argeiads came from Pelloponese to Thessaly to Pieria And Kick Thracian Tribe Like Pieri,
Also if they were Illyrians then why their worst Enemy was Dardania????

Now Makedonia Means long hair in Attic and Cousin In Greco Thracian-Vrygian
Homeric Greek: ammatho êmathoessa, sandy land , PIE *samadh ; the coastal, swampy land around Axius river, in contrast to mountainous Macedonia .

The connection with Albanian MAT is Mistaken,

Ematheia is Part of Argeiad Territory as Pieria,
The connection you are writting is Wrong, the Area was Thracian and invaded By Greek in order to coonect with the Vrygians, in Fact the Thracians of the Area are not Pelasgoi But Leleges if you connect with Agrinio Greece,
That can be also proved that Pelasgian lived east of Chalkidiki in an Area where Argeiads had no Troubles,

for your information Aigea The capital is after the name of ancient Aiginion in Histia in thessaly, as also Pella means old like mt Pellion,
The Makedonians were the aeolians that invede Upper Makedonia (west)north of the cities of Phyllakai,
May I remind you that Phyllakai in Thracian Serdi -Seldi (in english soldier),
Even today that area is Named Servia from far ancienty, and the people are Shurdi from Sherdi - Sherdana -Sardeis etc
How Yes no knows about that, and connected them with R1a, although in dorian south we have drop of %,
the only connection that Argeiads have with Illyria is the area of Korce (Κορυτσα) and Girokaster (Αργυροκαστρο) and the the area of Ohrid that were in the counsil of Hettairoi,

now about the illyrians read better Herodotus, and translate the words mistaken

The lands around Aegae, the first Macedonian capital, were home to various peoples. Macedonia was called Emathia (from king Emathion) and the city of Aiges was called Edessa, the capital of fabled king Midas. According to legend, Caranus, accompanied by a multitude of Greeks came to the area in search for a new homeland [5] took Edessa and renamed it to Aegae. Subsequently, he expelled Midas and other kings off the lands and he formed his new kingdom. According to Herodot, it was Dorus, the son of Hellen who led his people to Histaeotis, whence they were driven off by the Cadmeians into Pindus, where they settled as Macedonians. Later, a branch would migrate further south to be called Dorians.
It seems that the first Macedonian state emerged in the 8th or early 7th century BC under the Argead Dynasty, who, according to legend, migrated to the region from the Greek city of Argos in Peloponnesus (thus the name Argead).[7] The Macedonian tribe ruled by the Argeads, was itself called Argead (which translates as "descended from Argos").


as you see Neander the connection of @e mathe@ is mistaken,
cause in Greek-Pelasgian MAK-ros means one dimension very big
Mek-os MAk-ros is the length and makros the far Big
find the word ΜΑΚΡΥΣ In your lexicon

now in pelasgic means Mak-edi (far away cousin or the tall fillia φυλλη) the edi is Vrygian and ethi (ethin) the greek and we find it in many thracian tribes like Maedi Bythini-Bethini etc
Ethi pass to mean the today ethnic Ethnos
MAk-Edi ->MAkedi ->makedonian
about the meaning of tall MAk-tribe
the tribe of the tall people, although we know that Phillip and Argeiads were short
or the far away cousins relatives

Phillip 1,68 m according the vergina tomb


Ematheia cames
either from PIE sand land
either from king Ematheion of Thrace (Samothace-Emathothrace)
Makedonia is the area that Argeiads unite and ruled.
Pieria Ematheia Bottiiea Bissaltia (Bissedi) Syntica, Servia, Aenae Balla Eordaia etc
later a roman province
in byzantine was the name of Bulgaria, etc
the connection with Illyria is incoorect cause
1 Makedonians always in war with Dardania,
2 Makedonians ally were the Molloseans Epirotans who invade Illyria, and had Later Pyrros

The before MAkedonian Capital of ematheia was Κιτιον kition which is an Arcadocypriot word
you can find the name of kition in many areas as also the 1rst name of cyprus
the before Makedonian capital of Pieria was Λειβυθρα Leivethra
which is a very ancient toponym that connects with Phoenician
probably like other Pelasgian or Leleges, toponym word is Semitic and means either Leibun (a holy pine tree) or Levi (holy man-priest)
we know that cause LeiBethra is near MAkedonian holy city of Dion,

and if Neander you still insist Find about Pieri,

now about Homer ^ Iliad 14.226
now about Makedonians Illyrians always in war,
about the tall tribe I explained it to you in Pelasgian, not IE
About the ancestors of Illyrians read about Cadmus,
About the ancestors of Albania seek for Anju
and Normands

Besides Makedonians invade that area 300-400 after Hommer
In Order to connect with Brygians

in fact History proves that Makedonians and Illyrians were in Hate, except 3 Kings of areas I report above
REMEMBER THAT PAIONI FOLLOWED ALEXANDER BUT DARDANI DID NOT FOLLOW HIM
AS ALSO REMEMBER THE SKUDRA



Neander you are maybe right,
But albanian language is not the only that kept pelasgic,
2nd excavations proves what History says,
3rd THE MAKEDONIANS KICK THE THRACIANS TO EAST (PIERI TRIBE)
The MAkedonians took the land of Bryges and Bethini who moved to asia minor
so what ancient people??
THE BRYGES AND THE PAIONI WERE NOT PERSO or ILLYRO-THRACIANS
BUT GRECO-THRACIANS
now about the Ancient Makedonians what were they History and excavations and Language is Clear
now about Albanian LAnguage I am Sure that it is precious But changes meanings of many words,
as example Ematheia is the toponym IN PIE of sand,
sand in Greek Koine is Ammos in Homerick is Emathos
so the land of EMATHOS is EMATHOESSA which in Greek becomes EmathoeDa-> Emathoea-Ematheia
besides at Homers Time that Area was under King Ematheion
the simmilarity is just a coinsindance,
If a third meaning from Albanian Language it is acceptable, but in that case does not prove connection of Makedonians with Illyrians, But a Geografical area with tall people as described in Illyrian Language
Emathe land of tall people, does it says they are Illyrians?
to be more understood Scotia is Greek name for Scotland means the Dark LAnd, does that mean that Scotish are GrecoBrittish???
cause that is what you say, because @emathe@ means tall in Illyrian then Ematheia is Illyrian
ok then with your logic England in Greek is Albionia,
You see In Greek means that England is Albania, so English are Albanians,
is it logic???, Ematheia in Albanian language means the tall, but that does not mean that they were Albanians,
Espagna in Greek means dedicated to god Pan (Phanus), does that mean that Spanish people are Greeks?
Russia means the red people land in Greek, but that does not mean the Russians are Greek,
or the name Russian is Greek, it comes From Ros PIE word
now about the blind thank you,
I prefer to be blind than one eye Neander

now about @e mathe@ who knows maybe the King of Samothrace was Illyrian,
But not the Argeads

For Your Information The Ancient Makedonians were Greek
The ancient PIERI BRYGES BETHINI were PELASGIC LELEGES THRACIAN, NOT IILYROTHRACIANS NOT PERSO THRACIANS NOT DACI THRACIANS
,
in the lands of the Above settled the GREEK MAKEDONIANS

besides the Perso-Thracians are the today south slavs as genetick seems to lead to that conclusion
 
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