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Thread: Macedonians

  1. #601
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    I have moved the posts regarding Albanians into this separate thread:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...C-Macedonians)

    Also, let me issue a warning: the next one to post about Albanians in this Macedonian thread gets a real infraction.

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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Macedonia



    Than It will be much worst if someone post about the greeks in the Macedonian thread I think !
    Although, Albanians and Greeks are certainly connected with the ancient Macedonians, anyway, I agree whith Taranis because it should not divert the topic to the lack of information placed on the ORIGIN of the Albanians and Greeks

    Everything what I've tried to post here, as a subject was the name Macedonians, and now I will try again (I hope that administrators will react if someone will try again to deviate the topic)
    +
    1. Natural history - Di Gaius Plinius Secundus,-Lodovico Domenichi-1573
    2. Dictionarium Latinohispanicum, Et Vice Versa Hispanicolatinum- Ad Haec ...
    3. Dictionarium Latinohispanicum, Et Vice Versa Hispanicolatinum Ad Haec ...
    4. Dictionarium Latinohispanicum, Et Vice Versa Hispanicolatinum Ad Haec ...
    5. Novum lexicon geographicum - Pagina 159
    6. Debora ("us" is latin suffix)- Dibra was mention by Plini - Novum lexicon geographicum? - Pagina 159 - Filippo Ferrari - 1697
    7. D. Paulus apostulus in mari, quod nunc Venetus sinus dicitur, naufragus, et ...-pag.CLXXXVII



    +
    Macedonia: Its Races and Their Future
    H. Brailsford
    ... of the races wich inhabit Macedonia today only the Albanians have any claim to be autochtonus


    +


    +


    +



    The genesis of the earth and of man, a critical examination of passages in ... By Edward William Lane, Reginald Stuart Poole


    +


    ...
    Can I proceed to post these kind of informations what are related to ancient Macedonians ?!
    (because the topic is about ancient Macedonians)
    Last edited by Besir Bajrami; 29-10-11 at 21:17.

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    The book entitled "Ancient Greek and other Ancient Testimonies about the Unique Ethnic Distinctiveness of the Ancient Macedonians" contains testimony from more than fifty Greek and other ancient authors who clearly testified that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks!

    Some of these authors quoted are:
    Arrian, Appian, Dexsipus, Demosthenes, Dicearhus, Caliphintes Dionysius, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Dio Chrysostom, Diodor of Sicily, Dio Cassius, Eutropius, Eusebius of Caesarea, Aemolius Sura, Aeschines, Isocrates, Zosimus, Isidore of Seville, Johannes Malalaa, Flavius Josephus, Justin, Cicero, Quintus Curtius Rufus, Herodotus, Homer, Plutarch, Pausanias, Polybius, Claeneas, Claudianus, Clement of Alexandria, Marcus Veleus Paterculus, Cornelius Nepo, Praxagoras, Pseudo Scylax, Pseudo Scymnus and others.

    Authentic quotes from the works of these authors are given along with this author’s own comments.

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    Page 83
    of their ancient Country, destroyed by Vespasian, as they al-
    ledge.
    He likewise confutes their Opinion of their being descended from
    Frisius, Son to Clogio, King of France, and that his Posterity paid a
    Tribute of 260 Oxen to the French, as a Token of Homage, and
    thinks it rather true, that the French derive their Origin from the
    Freezlanders, according to Beatus Rhenanus and Adrianus Ju-
    nius.
    Then he attacks the Opinion of those who say, the Frison's are
    descended from Grunius the Trojan, the Builder of Groningen, and
    therefore writ them Phrysii, as nearer the Phryges their Progeni-
    tors, and at last tells us his own Sentiments, that Freso, the Foun-
    der of their Nation, with his Brethren Saxo and Bruno, came from
    an Indian Province called Benedicta Fresia ; where having served
    under Alexander the Great, and not daring to stay in the Coun-
    try after his Death took shipping with what they could bring
    off, and landing in this Country, called it Fresia, after his own
    Name.
    " This he insists upon at large in this Third Book, and thinks it the
    more probable, because the Story of Saxo, the Founder of the
    Saxon Nation, agrees with it. He says all Authors, Crantzius ex-
    cepted, agree. That the Saxons were some Remains of the Mace-
    donian Army ; and that before they came into Germany, they
    were called Macedonians ; for this he quotes the German Chronicle, printed at Mentz, in 1482. the Annals of Freezland, and others."
    His next Proof for this is ancient Rhimes, Constant Tradition,
    and the Universal Opinion of the Frisons, who have entertained it
    from Father to Son successively, and convey'd it to one another by
    Rhimes, a Custom, says he, which the most prudent Nations have
    made use of, as the readiest Preservative against Oblivion. He tells
    us moreover, that all the Freezland. Historians he hath seen, give
    their Suffrage this way.
    As a further Proof of this, he alledges, That the Frisons were
    constantly great Lovers of Learning, and therefore could easily pre-
    serve their Origin and Antiquities from Oblivion. He says also, that
    Freso, their Founder, was versed in all the Learning of the Greeks,
    and erected a sort of Academies in many places, where Youth were
    instructed in Learning, and the Art of War ; and that he erected
    one particularly at Stavren, near Stavo's Temple, and placed a great
    Library in the Temple it self.


    Page 84
    The Works of the LEARNED,
    In the next place, he acquaints us, that both Frison and Saxon
    Historians agree as to Saxo, and that the People of Freezland,
    Saxony and Brunswick had formerly one and the same Language,
    and form of Government.
    Then he gives us an Account of the Arms of the Saxons and
    Frisons, from the Heralds Books, and says, that when Friso had
    the Defence of the German Ocean committed to his Charge, his
    Arms were in a blue Field, three Silver Bars, oblique from the right
    to the left, betwixt them 7 red Leaves of a Water Rose, 4 betwixt
    the Dexter and the middle Bar, and 3 betwixt that and the Sinister.
    These, says our Author, were the most ancient Arms of the Frisons,
    and prove that they were used by their Princes, Dukes and Kings,
    and that the 7 Leaves signified 7 Islands, into which Freezland was
    formerly divided. Saxo's Coat, he tells us, was also a blew Field,
    divided in the middle by a cross Line, from the right to the left, under
    the same, at the dexter Point, there was a Lion, and at the sinister
    Point a Dragon, their Heads almost joined, and looking upon one
    another, with a pleasant Aspect. In the upper part there was an
    Eagle flying with expanded Wings, looking upon them both. In this
    place, he confutes Crantzius, who says, that those are but New
    Bearings, and that Wittekind, Duke of Saxony, who was overcome by
    Charlemagne, carried in his Ensigns a black Colt, but when he turn'd
    Christian, changed it into a white one. He proves from Methodius,
    who is many Centuries elder than Whittikindus, that the Saxons in
    his time impressed a Lion upon their Coin. He observes, that
    Wittikindus was not King of the Saxons, but one of those twelve
    Princes (or Great Men) that governed Saxony by turns ; and there-
    fore bore the Arms of the Country, and not his own. He also quotes
    Wittikind the Monk, who in his 1st Book of Hatthagar, D. of Saxony,
    says, that when he encouraged his Men to Battle, he took up the
    Standard or Ensign (which they account Sacred) impressed with
    a Lion and Dragon, and an Eagle hovering over them, by which he
    would represent Fortitude and Prudence, and their Efficacy, and ex-
    press constancy of Mind by motion of the Body.
    In the rest of his Book he enquires after the Indian Fresia, and
    thinks it to be the Pharrasii mentioned by Curtius, beyond the Ganges.
    He pretends to trace Freso's Genealogy, as far as Shem, one of Noah's
    Sons, and gives an Account of the Travels of Freso and his Bre-
    thren, c. all which is submitted to the Readers Censure, it being ap-
    plicable to Antiquaries better than to any other fort of Men.
    ui bene conjecit Vatem bunc perhibebo optimum.
    erarbi



    http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/cambrit/angsaxeng.html




    Sasa, Republic of Macedonia
    The village and surrounding mines were set up by Saxons, Germans, which settled north-eastern Macedonia in Middle Ages. The name Sasa originates from German Saxons, as Sasa means Saxon in Macedonian Language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasa,_R...c_of_Macedonia

    Sasa = Short form of Alexander (www.behindthename.com)

    Saxons known as Macedonians before - (Saxon=Sasa=Alexander) = Alexanders people or Macedonians = Same


    Ancient authors like Okolski say that the origin of these arms was in Saxony, and thus they are called Sas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sas_(coat_of_arms)

    Saxons
    http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.com/index.php?title=Saxon&printable=yes

    French Kings (Robertians, Capetians . . .) - Saxon origin? http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm

    History of The Franks
    The Franks provide the dynasty which can be seen as the first royal house of France. From them, in origin one of the Germanic tribes, the word France derives.
    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab74


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    the above can be true,

    since Mercel create ministry of Greece and Fuhtel atThessaloniki

    that means that Saxons or SaSA people were Germans

    so Makedonians were Germans

  6. #606
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    HELLOOOO !!!
    Good evening people of Europe , i am new in the Eupedia :)

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    Im wathing you very carefully :)

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    Id love this Thread:Macedonians because i am one of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKD not FIROM View Post
    Id love this Thread:Macedonians because i am one of them
    are you sure?

    do you have any evidence/proof?

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    Cool Its my right to choose what i am and what i wont to be is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    are you sure?

    do you have any evidence/proof?
    Yes , I have , oops thats me :)))))))))0
    It is my right ok acording to UN documents ?!

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    Venet !! nice slavic ?

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    Macedonian Y-DNA :
    Noveski,Trivodalieva, Efremov 2006-09
    Y Haplogroup Macedonians
    E1b1b1a-M78 15.60%
    E1b1b1b-M81 0
    E1b1b1c1-M34 2.40%
    G-M201 3.80%
    H-M69 1.40%
    1*(xI1,I2a,I2b1)-M170 0
    I1-M253 1.90%
    I2a-P37b 27.50%
    I2b1-M223 1.90%
    J*(xJ1a,J2)-12f2 3.30%
    J2*(xJ2a4b,J2b)-M172 4.70%
    J2a4b-M67 2.80%
    J2b2-M241 5.20%
    L-M22 0.50%
    N1c-Tat 0.50%
    P*(xR1)-92R7 0.50%
    R1*-M173 0.50%
    R1a1-SRY1532 * 14.20%
    R1b1-P25 11.40%
    T-M70 1.90%
    TOTAL 100.00%
    *R1a1= M448=L122 M459 SRY10831.2=SRY1532.2 | M516=L120 mutations

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    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    And this is Y-DNA from Albanians(25% of population Of R. Macedonia) in Macedonia:


    Noveski,Trivodalieva, Efremov 2006-09
    Y Haplogroup Macedonians Albanians Others Total
    E1b1b1a-M78 15.60% 28.80% 14.30% 19.80%
    E1b1b1b-M81 0 1.80% 0 0.60%
    E1b1b1c1-M34 2.40% 1.80% 0 2%
    G-M201 3.80% 2.70% 4.80% 3.50%
    H-M69 1.40% 1.80% 14.30% 2.30%
    1*(xI1,I2a,I2b1)-M170 0 1.80% 4.80% 0.90%
    I1-M253 1.90% 6.30% 0 3.20%
    I2a-P37b 27.50% 1.80% 0 17.50%
    I2b1-M223 1.90% 1.80% 4.80% 2%
    J*(xJ1a,J2)-12f2 3.30% 1.80% 0 2.60%
    J2*(xJ2a4b,J2b)-M172 4.70% 2.70% 9.50% 4.40%
    J2a4b-M67 2.80% 2.70% 9.50% 3.20%
    J2b2-M241 5.20% 13.50% 4.80% 7.90%
    L-M22 0.50% 0% 0 0.30%
    N1c-Tat 0.50% 0 0 0.30%
    P*(xR1)-92R7 0.50% 0 4.80% 0.60%
    R1*-M173 0.50% 0 0 0.30%
    R1a1-SRY1532 *moe podolu 14.20% 12.60% 4.80% 13.10%
    R1b1-P25 11.40% 18% 23.80% 14.30%
    T-M70 1.90% 0 0 1.20%
    TOTAL 100.00% 99.90% 100.20% 100.00%
    * M448=L122 M459 SRY10831.2=SRY1532.2 | M516=L120 mutations

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    And this is from Pericic et. 2005
    for Macedonians(ethnic)
    Pericic 2005
    haplogroups mutation Macedonians
    E3b* M35 0
    E3b1 M78 2.53%
    E3b1-a M78a 21.53%
    E3b2 M81 0
    E3b3 M123 0
    G M201 5.10%
    J M212 0
    J2e* M102 2.50%
    J2e1 M241 3.80%
    J2* M172 3.80%
    J2f* M67 0
    J2f1 M92 2.50%
    F* M89 1.30%
    H1 M82 0
    I* M170 0
    I1a M253 5.06%
    I1b* P37 29.11%
    I1c M223 0
    K*(xP) M9 1.27%
    R1b M173 5.06%
    R1a SRY-1532 15.19%
    Q* M242 0
    P*(xQ,R1) 92r7 0

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Greek without the real language and root "Phoenician alphabet", is nothing and nobody cared to speak it today, its over with the crap language. Even the ancient Macedonians didnt give a damn about it, used for all others to understand the common language in antiquity, like english is today. Modern Greek and Albanian language does not sound European at all. The Greek Civilization using others progress, who was not theirs, did not last long.
    BEFORE YOU WRITE AND TALK JUST READ A LITTLE BIT MORE AND BE THE PUPIL OF "MORE" AND NOT A MORON.
    DO YOU WAT TO BELIEVE OR NOT , DO YOU LIKE IT OR NOT THE TRUTH CAN NOT BE OPPOSITE.
    JUST HAVE A LOOK AT THIS LINK postimg. org/image/w7k7exehr/ THE ALBANIAN ARMENIAN AND THE GREEK ARE THE FIRST ORIGNAL LANGUAGES.

    AND BY THE WAY ILIRIA OR ILLYRIA CAN NOT BE TRANSLATED IN ANY OTHER LANGAGE ECXEPT THE ALBANIAN LANGUAGE
    ILLYR - ILIR - ILIRIA - ILLYRIA = FREE MAN ,FREE COUNTRY , FREEDOM .

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    The history of Bulgaria and its Empire is well known. One thing that must be remembered is that, if the Bulgarians are to be included in a discussion on whom the Macedonians of old were, the Bulgarians themselves have a very complex origin. Consequently, there can be no simple answer in drawing a connection between Bulgarians and Macedonians unless we specify Modern day Macedonians.

    THAT IS CORRECT REGULUS

    the Makedonians as we all know from ancient is Sub-Greek nation as Iones lakedaimonioi, magna grecani, Pontioi (euxeinus pontus), Cretans etc



    that is the central Argead Makedonia started from Holy Dion (where Hercules climb olymp)
    Makednos, son of Hercules, and his sons, with help botieans push Pieri a thracian tribe to east and took their lands and establish a kingom, in AIGES (goats), later unite with Aeolians of West Makedonia, to a consultant Kingdom alliance (kings and 1 king to rule the kings) simmilar to mycenae system, Alexander was stoped but he's father Phillip took place in Olympic games as also Amyntas,
    and Amyntas unite all, makedonians always expand until Phillip II took almost Greece and half Thrace,
    as I say that has to do With Greek Makedonia as a region and also A NATION

    later when Romans came they name Makedonia the area even to illyria and dardania,
    but does that state makes Dardanians Makedonians?????????
    NO WAY, Before kossyfo war, Kossyfo was in Yugoslavia, But WAS YUGOSLAVIA A NATION??????
    today Basques are in Spain BUT ARE THEY CASTIGLIANNI????
    WHEN INDIA WAS UNDER BRITISH EMPIRE WHERE INDIANS BRITISH?
    NO WAY
    so today Bulgarian people living in Skopje are they makedonians cause a Roman officer named a territory Makedonia????
    NO WAY
    ANOTHER NATION,
    THE ROMAN PROVINCE OF MAKEDONIA WAS NOT AN ETHNICAL STATE,
    SO DONT TELL ME A MAKEDONIAN THAT YOU ARE BROTHER TO ME CAUSE WE LIVE IN A AREA WHERE A THIRD NAMED AFTER THE NAME I GIVE TO MY NATION,

    GERMANY IS GERMANY CAUSE GERMANS LIVE THERE
    POLLAND IS NAMED CAUSE POLLANDS LIVE THERE
    MAKEDONIA IS WHERE MAKEDONIANS LIVE AND NOT BULGARIANS,
    WE DONT WANT TO UNITE TO STATE THAT A ROMAN BAPTISE BECAUSE IT WAS EASY HIM
    WE HAVE OUR ANCIENT BROTHERS

    Go FIND YOUR BROTHERS THE BULGARIANS,
    AND UNITE WITH THEM TO A BIG BULGARIA


    TRUE MAKEDONIAN NATIONAL ANTHEM
    sais that kick away the none Greeks (barbarians with the original meaning, not the english version)

    so inhabiting in russia does not make you a russian
    how much inhabiting in Paeonia and name your self a makedonian

    out of mind,

    i am a mogol invader to korea, and i claim i am chinese, !!!!!!!!!

    ALL THE MAPS YOU ARE SHOWING ARE ROMAN TIMES, NOT MAKEDONIAN TIMES,
    CAUSE IF THE ROMANS BAPTISE YOU MAKEDONIAN< I DONT ACCEPT IT
    OK PAEONIAN OR BULGARIAN OR SLAVIAN

    MAKEDONIA IS ONE AND CREATED AND WAS AND IS AND WILL BE GREEK,

    Now i dont care about joseph Bross Tito bullshit,
    you are an indipendent nation, we dont claim nothing from you, we treat very nice,
    for your thievery, BUT IT IS TIME TO GIVE US OUR NAME BACK,
    WE DONT WANT YOUR LANDS, YOU WANT OURS, SO GET LOST WE NEVER SHOW AND NEVER WANTED TO GO TO SKOPJE YOU WANT TO TAKE OUR LANDS

    MOLON LAVE
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    it is you that say Thessaloniki Alexanders sister solunu and want to conquer
    we never said skopjie is greek
    so get lost nazi
    even Yane Sandanski was a bulgarian, Friend of the Turks you have same heroes,
    Alexander is ours,



    We have suffer enough of you, but we don't give in,

    we revolt many times and got free from turks before you
    so bye bye






    THAT HORSE HAD A NAME ΒΟΥΚΕΦΑΛΑΣ

    Not Bolglavata
    Oh great. Everyone knew this thread would be trouble as soon as they saw the name. Nice temper tantrum, by the way. In case you hadn't noticed, on Eupedia we pride ourselves in civilized debates and not throwing around insults, hyperbole, and emotional outbursts. You can take that to Topix or wherever but it is most certainly unwelcome here.

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    We need moderators over here, this crap can't be allowed to pollute Eupedia.

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    An interesting article about descendants of ancient Macedonians in Pakistan

    New Indo-European Language Discovered

    A linguistics researcher at the Macquarie University in Australia has discovered that the language, known as Burushaski, which is spoken by about 90,000 people who reside in a remote area of Pakistan, is Indo-European in origin.

    Prof Ilija Casule’s discovery, which has now been verified by a number of the world’s top linguists, has excited linguistics experts around the world.
    An entire issue of the eminent international linguistics journal the Journal of Indo-European Studies is devoted to a discussion of his findings later this month.
    More than fifty eminent linguists have tried over many years to determine the genetic relationship of Burushaski. But it was Prof Casule’s painstaking research, based on a comprehensive grammatical, phonological, lexical and semantic analysis, which established that the Burushaski language is in fact an Indo-European language most likely descended from one of the ancient Balkan languages.
    Prof Casule said that the language is most probably ancient Phrygian.
    The Phrygians migrated from Macedonia to Anatolia (today part of Turkey) and were famous for their legendary kings who figure prominently in Greek mythology such as King Midas who turned whatever he touched into gold. They later migrated further east, reaching India. Indeed, according to ancient legends of the Burushaski (or Burusho) people, they are descendants of Alexander the Great.


    Tracing the historical path of a language is no easy task. Prof Casule said he became interested in the origins of Burushaski more than 20 years ago.
    “People knew of its existence but its Indo-European affiliation was overlooked and it was not analyzed correctly. It is considered a language isolate – not related to any other language in the world in much the same way that the Basque language is classified as a language isolate,” he added.
    The remoteness of the area that was independent until the early 1970s when it became part of Pakistan, ensured Burushaski retained certain grammatical and lexical features that led Prof Casule to conclude it is a North-Western Indo-European language, specifically of the Paleobalkanic language group and that it corresponds most closely with Phrygian.
    Prof Casule’s work is groundbreaking, not only because it has implications for all the Indo-European language groups, but also provides a new model for figuring out the origins of isolate languages – where they reside in the linguistic family tree and how they developed and blended with other languages to form a new language.
    http://www.sci-news.com/otherscience...icle00403.html

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    I think former Greek Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis stated the real problem over the name quite nicely in this quote from 1995;

    “I understood the Skopje issue from the very beginning in its real dimension. What had concerned me from the very beginning was not the country’s name, which is related with the historical dimension of the problem and has mostly psychological and sentimental value. The problem for me was to avoid the emergence of a second minority problem in Western Macedonia. (...) For me, the aim had always been that that Republic should clearly state that there is no Slavomacedonian minority in Greece and to commit itself through international treaties to stop all irredentist propaganda against Greece. That was the key in the Greek-Skopjan dispute.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by VMRO1893 View Post
    An interesting article about descendants of ancient Macedonians in Pakistan

    New Indo-European Language Discovered

    A linguistics researcher at the Macquarie University in Australia has discovered that the language, known as Burushaski, which is spoken by about 90,000 people who reside in a remote area of Pakistan, is Indo-European in origin.

    Prof Ilija Casule’s discovery, which has now been verified by a number of the world’s top linguists, has excited linguistics experts around the world.
    An entire issue of the eminent international linguistics journal the Journal of Indo-European Studies is devoted to a discussion of his findings later this month.
    More than fifty eminent linguists have tried over many years to determine the genetic relationship of Burushaski. But it was Prof Casule’s painstaking research, based on a comprehensive grammatical, phonological, lexical and semantic analysis, which established that the Burushaski language is in fact an Indo-European language most likely descended from one of the ancient Balkan languages.
    Prof Casule said that the language is most probably ancient Phrygian.
    The Phrygians migrated from Macedonia to Anatolia (today part of Turkey) and were famous for their legendary kings who figure prominently in Greek mythology such as King Midas who turned whatever he touched into gold. They later migrated further east, reaching India. Indeed, according to ancient legends of the Burushaski (or Burusho) people, they are descendants of Alexander the Great.


    Tracing the historical path of a language is no easy task. Prof Casule said he became interested in the origins of Burushaski more than 20 years ago.
    “People knew of its existence but its Indo-European affiliation was overlooked and it was not analyzed correctly. It is considered a language isolate – not related to any other language in the world in much the same way that the Basque language is classified as a language isolate,” he added.
    The remoteness of the area that was independent until the early 1970s when it became part of Pakistan, ensured Burushaski retained certain grammatical and lexical features that led Prof Casule to conclude it is a North-Western Indo-European language, specifically of the Paleobalkanic language group and that it corresponds most closely with Phrygian.
    Prof Casule’s work is groundbreaking, not only because it has implications for all the Indo-European language groups, but also provides a new model for figuring out the origins of isolate languages – where they reside in the linguistic family tree and how they developed and blended with other languages to form a new language.
    http://www.sci-news.com/otherscience...icle00403.html
    I remember this from a while back, and I thought group in question was the Kalash. They also aren't at all Macedonian, and this seems like a load of pseudo-science. Even if thethere are similarities, this doesn't make them by any means Macedonian.

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