Who were and are the Albanians and their DNA

Albanians have already incorporated a large body of autochthonous populations like Macedonians, Aromanians, etc. into their nation. It is hard to distinguish now what part of current Albanian population would be originally Albanian, and what part Albanized. The best bet would be to focus the research in the parts of Albanian vocabulary that has no proven ancestry in surrounding languages.
Moron, can you tell us what are these "autochthonous Macedonians and Aromanians" that you are speaking of ethnically? "Macedonians" is used by Slavs and Greeks today, while Aromanians are equivalent of Gypsies, with their roaming life-styles. Albanians in other hand are an ethnicity based on blood relations that were strictly governed by Clans in the past. Morons like you should be silenced in such forum!
 
As usual, typical Albanian despise towards knowledge and other people :)

Autochthonus Macedonians are Macedonians that lived here before we Slavs and you Albanians settled on Balkan.
Aromanians are not equivalent or even similar to gypsies. Amazing that you don't know that.

In what past were Albanians governed by 'clans'? Please refer to first mention of 'clan' (or similar phenomenon) in Albanians.
 
Albanians should have been R1B and R1A clades people,I mean those who have spread Albanian language.
If you would look on some genetic testing of Albanian highlanders,they have higher R1A than Albanian low-landers.
That R1A can not be from Slavic speakers.
They came,conquered and assimilated E-V13 and J2 Neolithic people.
No idea to which group proto-Albanian speakers were included,they were and are Satem speakers,so they are from IE group with Slavs,Armenians,Iranians.
As for the tales of some Slavs,that they are descending from India,those are fairy tales.
Maybe proto-Albanian speakers were included between Thracians or who knows.
Proto-people from Balkans were neither Slavic neither Albanian speakers,they were E-v13 and J2 and I2 people.
 
Albanians should have been R1B and R1A clades people,I mean those who have spread Albanian language.
If you would look on some genetic testing of Albanian highlanders,they have higher R1A than Albanian low-landers.
That R1A can not be from Slavic speakers.
They came,conquered and assimilated E-V13 and J2 Neolithic people.
No idea to which group proto-Albanian speakers were included,they were and are Satem speakers,so they are from IE group with Slavs,Armenians,Iranians.
As for the tales of some Slavs,that they are descending from India,those are fairy tales.
Maybe proto-Albanian speakers were included between Thracians or who knows.
Proto-people from Balkans were neither Slavic neither Albanian speakers,they were E-v13 and J2 and I2 people.

Albanian Highlanders don't have any R1a, it's only the low landers that do have some low %, and mostly in the low lands of Central and Southern Albania. Gheg Highlanders and Kosovars for example are almost entirely E-V13, J2b, R1b, with minor I2 and I1:

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/abanian-dna-poject/about/results


R1a that is found today on Albanians is indeed what some people would consider "Slavic clades". You should do some research before you comment, me thinks.
 
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As usual, typical Albanian despise towards knowledge and other people :)

Autochthonus Macedonians are Macedonians that lived here before we Slavs and you Albanians settled on Balkan.
Aromanians are not equivalent or even similar to gypsies. Amazing that you don't know that.

In what past were Albanians governed by 'clans'? Please refer to first mention of 'clan' (or similar phenomenon) in Albanians.
Knowledge is key! Please do tell when Albanians settled on Balkans, I would very much like to know. Oh, and source your opinion if you want people to take you seriously. Albanians even to this day have retained their old Clan traditions, specifically the Ghegs. You should look into it.
 
Knowledge is key! Please do tell when Albanians settled on Balkans, I would very much like to know.
Probably sometime between no mentioning of them, and first mentioning of them.

Albanians even to this day have retained their old Clan traditions, specifically the Ghegs. You should look into it.
Once again. How old are those traditions among Albanians? How do you know those are Albanian traditions?




Yes, we've all read that study. Need new data, as you've noted.
 
Probably sometime between no mentioning of them, and first mentioning of them.


Once again. How old are those traditions among Albanians? How do you know those are Albanian traditions?
You are a funny guy, I must say. Reason, because you enter such thread without even knowing spit about Albanians. Clan/Tribes have been noted to be our traditions ever since we have been recorded in history, Fis they were called by the Ghegs, and Fara by Tosks and were governed by the law called Kanun. You ask if they were our traditions. Whose traditions would they be if not ours? lol

Only other Balkaners that have similar Clan traditions are the Montenegrins, for obvious reasons, of course. Some of their bigger Clans also share ancestry with our Clans, like Kuci, Piperi etc.
 
You are a funny guy, I must say. Reason, because you enter such thread without even knowing spit about Albanians. Clan/Tribes have been noted to be our traditions ever since we have been recorded in history, Fis they were called by the Ghegs, and Fara by Tosks and were governed by the law called Kanun. You ask if they were our traditions. Whose traditions would they be if not ours? lol

Only other Balkaners that have similar Clan traditions are the Montenegrins, for obvious reasons, of course. Some of their bigger Clans also share ancestry with our Clans, like Kuci, Piperi etc.

For the third time.... the year and the source?
 
For the third time.... the year and the source?
I am not your butler. Do some research before you engage in such debate, because I don't have the time nor the nerves to school you on every little detail.
 
Albanians should have been R1B and R1A clades people,I mean those who have spread Albanian language.
If you would look on some genetic testing of Albanian highlanders,they have higher R1A than Albanian low-landers.
That R1A can not be from Slavic speakers.
They came,conquered and assimilated E-V13 and J2 Neolithic people.
No idea to which group proto-Albanian speakers were included,they were and are Satem speakers,so they are from IE group with Slavs,Armenians,Iranians.
As for the tales of some Slavs,that they are descending from India,those are fairy tales.
Maybe proto-Albanian speakers were included between Thracians or who knows.
Proto-people from Balkans were neither Slavic neither Albanian speakers,they were E-v13 and J2 and I2 people.
Unless J2b was also Indo-European.

Methinks that the E-V13 individuals were met with an Indo-European population carrying the R1b and J1b subclade. They spoke the IE language that became Proto-Albanian.
 
J1 is found among us in very small percentage, not even 2%:

ngwsx5.jpg
 
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I am not your butler. Do some research before you engage in such debate, because I don't have the time nor the nerves to school you on every little detail.

You're using a kindergarten argumentation. If you don't have the nerves to prove your points, well ...
BTW, he should be talking about J2b, that was probably a typo.
 
If you would guess, which people do you believe are the primary ancestors of the Albanians. Austrian linguists indicated that the albanians might not be illyrian, but that albanians have been roughly in the same area for atleast 3000 years.

If i might guess all the dna facts links to E-V13, and i believe the majority of ancient tribes who lived in those areas E-V13 were Pelazgians (as a majority, as other tribes and haplogroups would have been there as a mix for sure), now call them illyrian or pelazgian am not sure, i am more into Pelazgian theory cause E-V13 is 9,000 years autochronous in todays area of Greece Albania Macedonia and Kosovo. And Pelazgians are believed to live in those areas before they were Hellenized, i guess they were at these locations at least 4,000 years ago.

for more info....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30562-Palasgians-pre-Ancient-Greeks-would-their-DNA-be-E-V13
 
If i might guess all the dna facts links to E-V13, and i believe the majority of ancient tribes who lived in those areas E-V13 were Pelazgians (as a majority, as other tribes and haplogroups would have been there as a mix for sure), now call them illyrian or pelazgian am not sure, i am more into Pelazgian theory cause E-V13 is 9,000 years autochronous in todays area of Greece Albania Macedonia and Kosovo. And Pelazgians are believed to live in those areas before they were Hellenized, i guess they were at these locations at least 4,000 years ago.

for more info....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30562-Palasgians-pre-Ancient-Greeks-would-their-DNA-be-E-V13

Pelazgians were not Indo-European in speech. They probably spoke a language derived from Neolithic farmers similar to Etruscans, and maybe even Basques. E-V13 got absorbed by proto Albanians that brought the Indo-European language that we speak today, similar to how they got also absorbed by Greeks in Greece.
 
The best bet would be to focus the research in the parts of Albanian vocabulary that has no proven ancestry in surrounding languages.

Do you have Ike, some statistics about vocabulary?
How many words come from slavic, romanic, hellenic, aso languages?
How many are original or of unknown origin?
 
Pelazgians were not Indo-European in speech. They probably spoke a language derived from Neolithic farmers similar to Etruscans, and maybe even Basques. E-V13 got absorbed by proto Albanians that brought the Indo-European language that we speak today, similar to how they got also absorbed by Greeks in Greece.
I have always thought that E-V13 individuals spoke dialects similar to Etruscan as well. Interesting analysis.

Maybe some of the Albanians were related to these Etruscan speaking people; but were later assimilated into an Indo-European culture. Which may explain why almost half of the Albanian Y-DNA is dominated by Bronze Age DNA (R1b, J2) while the other half is mostly Neolithic. (E-V13)
 
Do you have Ike, some statistics about vocabulary?
How many words come from slavic, romanic, hellenic, aso languages?
How many are original or of unknown origin?



"In Meyer’s Etymological dictionary of Albanian, of 5140 “keywords” 1420 are Romance, 540 Slavonic, 1180 Turkish, 840 Modern Greek, and only 400 have a more or less reliable IE etymology. 730 words have no etymology whatsoever. During the past century, I would say that the number of words with IE etymology has risen, while some of Meyer’s Romance etymologies have been rejected, but the number of loan-words in Albanian is still disproportionately high." (Source)

That would mean:
Romance - 28%
Slavonic - 10%
Turkish - 23%
Greek - 16%
IE - 8 %
unknown - 14 %

Gustav Meyer was XIX century German linguist. Number of Turkish loanwords is high which correlates with period of pinnacle of Turkish influence.

1. Pre-Proto-Albanian (? -1st century B.C.). This is the period before the earliest contacts of Latin and Albanian.
2. Early Proto-Albanian (1st century B.C. -6th century). This is the period of intensive borrowing from Latin into Albanian, before the earliest contacts with the Slavs.
3. (Late) Proto-Albanian (6th century - 15th century). This is the period of intensive contacts of Albanians and Slavs.
4. Early Albanian (15th century - 1800). Roughly, this is the period of the earliest Albanian writings, as well as the period during which most of the Turkish loan-words entered the language.
5. (Modern) Albanian (1800 - present).




Other research summarizes that (source):

Based on a survey of a large number of international and Albanian linguists, on etymological origin of the word of the Albanian language, we derived the following approximate statistical conclusion:


(1) over 2000 Albanian word derives from the proto-Indo-European root, according Albanian linguists Bahri Beci;
(2) about 50 words comes from Pre-IE period;
(3) about 40 words comes from Greek, mostly from the Doric dialect, of which certain number preserved the old form which does not exist in the modern Greek language;
(4) about 30 words Illyrian origin, out of 1000 surviving Illyrian words and toponyms;
(5) about 15 words Thracian origin;
(6) about 30 words can be related to the languages ​​Mesops, Veneta and Etruscans;
(7) about 600 words of Latin origin, from which 60 of the old Latin (before IV century), and 82 words can be said to have adopted only the Albanian language and not the other Romance languages;
(8) about 60 words comes from the Old Slavic languages ​​(before the XII century);
(9) that is 540 words on loan from the Slavic languages (Slavonic, Serbian, Bulgarian, Macedonian), how much is included Gustav Meier;
(10) about 840 Modern Greek origin, as far as included Gustav Meier;
(11) there is is 1180 words of Turkish origin, as far as included Gustav Meier;



In a survey conducted during the 60s of the last century, from 1424 words that are commonly used in the Albanian language, 667 are considered to be indigenous, folk Albanian words, and 757 are among the loanwords. Depending on the topic, varies odds between indigenous and borrowed words.


The local lexicon dominates over loanwords in the following thematic areas:

ambient34: 17 (51)
atmospheric phenomena30: 14 (44)
folk astronomy9: 4(13)
time (duration), the numbers and names of colors50:28 (78)
flora 66: 47 (113)
livestock terms63: 45(108)
parts of the human body and their functions90: 67(157)




The adoptions dominate in the following areas:

wildlife70: 75(145)
everyday life48: 50(98)
clothing, toilets, food,74: 100(174)
housing and household43: 115(158)
agricultural terms34: 47(81)
crop plants6: 40(46)
artisanal terms34: 66 (100)
sea, sailing and fishing 12: 22 (34)
folk belief4: 20(24)


There is no native Albanian name for metals.


Some of Balkan speakers of Vlach (Aromanian) language claim that many of the words of "alleged" Albanian origin are in fact of Aromanian origin. I have been presented a similarity between some of the words, which indicates a common root, but are those words loans from Vlach> Albanian or the other way around, I can't tell since I'm no expert in that area.
 
That would mean:
Romance - 28%
Slavonic - 10%
Turkish - 23%
Greek - 16%
IE - 8 %
unknown - 14 %

So 1/5 have albabnian origin.

When I was hearing albanian I was amazed how
many slavic-like and romanic-like words I hear.

And do exist albanian by origin names or not?
 
I don't know who Gustav Meyer is, but 5,000 words is hardly a sample, and Ike's math is wrong. The Romance % in Albanian is about 40%. Slavic[1] and Turkish[2] words only comprise about 1,000 and 3-5000 words each, respectively, out of a total of 60,000+. Turkish words are exclusively social vocabulary (social positions, cuss words) and miscellaneous household terminology like cooking. Slavic terms are more related to lowland farming. I'm not sure about Greek, but I do know that Ancient Greek words are very scarce, and only modern ones appear. Direct Germanic borrowings are only a small select few due to Gothic raids, but otherwise non-existent. The pre-IE substratum is fairly small compared to Greek. Since we lack a relative of Albanian, it is more difficult to use comparative linguistics and close the gap to PIE. At least 30-50% of the words in Albanian are non-Latin, non-Greek, non-Slavic, PIE-derived.Overall, the Albanian language was spoken north of the Jirecek line, which accounts for the high borrowings from Latin, and low from Greek. The lack of maritime vocabulary coincides with the fact that the Albanian coastline was dominated until 1400 AD by Latin, Venetian and Greek colonists, and Albanians were tribal, mountainous tribes, living on the central and eastern fringes of the country, which coincides with the location of the Illyrian tribe of Albanoi.


[1] https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=osu1338406907&disposition=inline
[2] http://www.mcser.org/journal/index.php/mjss/article/viewFile/2184/2171
 

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