Illyria

[Dian]

look at map

Let's do some corrections according Stephen of Byzantium, also known as Stephanus Byzantinus (Greek: Στέφανος Βυζάντιος; fl. 6th century AD) was the author of an important geographical dictionary entitled Ethnica (Εθνικά).

Appian, The Civil Wars
book 2, chapter 6
The consuls crossed safely to Dyrrachium,
which some persons, by reason of the following error, consider the same as Epidamnus.
A barbarian king of the region, Epidamnus by name, built a city on the sea-coast and named it after himself. Dyrrachus,
the son of his daughter and of Neptune (as is supposed), added a dockyard to it which he named Dyrrachium. When the brothers of this Dyrrachus made war against him, Hercules, who was returning from Erythea, formed an alliance with him for a part of his territory; wherefore the Dyrrachians claim Hercules as their founder because he had a share of their land, not that they repudiate Dyrrachus, but because they pride themselves on Hercules even more as a god. In the battle which took place it is said that Hercules killed Ionius, the son of Dyrrachus, by mistake, and that after performing the funeral rites he threw the body into the sea in order that it might bear his name.
At a later period the Briges, returning from Phrygia, took possession of the city and the surrounding country. They were supplanted by the Taulantii, an Illyrian tribe, who were displaced in their turn by the Liburnians, another Illyrian tribe, who were in the habit of making piratical expeditions against their neighbors, with very swift ships. Hence the Romans call swift ships liburnic?, because these were the first ones they came in conflict with.
The people who had been expelled from Dyrrachium by the Liburnians procured the aid of the Corcyreans, who then ruled the sea, and drove out the Liburnians.
The Corcyreans mingled their own colonists with them and thus it came to be considered a Greek port; but the Corcyreans changed its name, because they considered it unpropitious, and called it Epidamnus from the town just above it, and
Thucydides gives it that name also. Nevertheless, the former name prevailed finally and it is now called Dyrrachium.

Reference: http://books.google.it/ebooks/reader?id=lRVAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader
>Now, seeing the abuse with the denomination "greek" by wikinazi-onalist let you show something:

 

[Dian]

their name is clearly derived from Thracian word Bardários or from PIE *(s)wordo meaning Black ?!!!!

Today in albanian language Bardh= white!!! Like Bardylis, the illiric king!
And, ArDIan, in albanian language ecc means, day, knowledge!!! And, in Chinese "Dian"

Any idea?!!:cool-v:

Ardiaei / Vardiaei disappeared in wars with Autoriatae....

And who fought against the romans?!

however, few Illyrian words whose meaning is preserved are fairly good match to Slavic and are alien to Albanian because they were probably related not to Illyrians proper but to Roman province of Illyricum...

A very good book to study the history about that area is Illiricum Sacrum.

http://books.google.ca/ebooks/reader?id=teSutvmzl2UC&printsec=frontcover&output=reader

 

[how yes no 2]

Today in albanian language Bardh= white!!! Like Bardylis, the illiric king!

looking at the map - they are also on west...

 

[Dian]

According to the official propaganda:

a)The Albanians were never mentioned in Byzantine, (not even of the works by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus), Arab, Armenian or any other texts before the 12th cent.

But,according Stephen of Byzantium, also known as Stephanus Byzantinus(Greek: Στέφανος Βυζάντιος; fl. 6th century AD) in its geographical dictionary entitled Ethnica (Εθνικά), we have:

Well ARPNIA !!!

And so on....

 

[Dian]

but veri = north
Vardiaei

"Veri=north" is related with today alb. "Bora=snow", like "Boreas=north, in ancient greek". The cold wind which brings the snow comes from the north.

 

[julia90]

I have a question:

Do Albanians (Illyrians) consider themselves a mediterranean pred. population, or do you consider yourselves maybe as slavic or other ethnic groups?

Many albanians i see there blend easily in the italian population, they have looks very similar to us.
then there are some people who couldn't be anything but albanians.

ex Anna Hoxha
the people who show her features have an east med look (that is still common in italy) but they have high zogomatic distance (which you don't find in other parto of balkans, greece, italy etc..)

Instead a phenotype like Eliza Dushku is what you find common also in italy (so she could blend well here)

Kledi Kadiu has an intermediate phenotype between eliza and anna (he looks less ethnic than anna hoxa, but at the same times he has a look you don't find in italy, and probably you would find it common only in albania)

also do the linguistic divide gheg-tosk indicate a divide between more mediterranean (greek look) and slavic?

 

[Elias2]

Anna Hoxha totaly got a nose job lol

 

[Neander]

Do Albanians (Illyrians) consider themselves a mediterranean pred. population, or do you consider yourselves maybe as slavic or other ethnic groups?

Albanians consider themselves just albanians. Some similarities with Slavs are because of the Slavs when came in Balkans took the native albanian culture, and mixed with some dinaric/albanian elements.

In whole terms Albanians are dinarics, and this expression is told by word "highlander" in albanian "malësor". This is albanian stereotype, maybe because of invasions in the fertile fields. Also we find in mountains more illyrian elements than in fields or cities/towns, because of foreign influences of occupators/empires.

They have not big diference in Race with italians, since italians are dinaric/noric/alpine (brachycephalic) in great percentage, there were a lot of albanian migrations in Italy, specially during ottoman occupation, but even the racial substrate I think is the same, majority dinaric with some mediterranean/nordic nuances.

Albanians and Slavs have a permanent enemity. It started in the 7-th century when Slavs came in balkans, and continue still today. Even albanian epic is based in the wars among Slavs and Albanians. But in fact this is more concentrated as enemity against Serbs.

also do the linguistic divide gheg-tosk indicate a divide between more mediterranean (greek look) and slavic?

No. This can be seen by our eyes, Albanians in majority are dinaric. Alpine and mediterranean features in dinaric persons can be seen in the North as well as in the South. Blue eyes are comon in North as well as in the South. There is no racial distinction between Ghegs and Tosks.

 

[julia90]

so, do you think albanian population derive mainly from neolitic-near eastern ancient migrations?
like in italy, greece, and in some part of the balkans.

aren't those of southern albania descendent from ancient greek tribes?
would the albanian population be more similar to the greek one and possibly italian one instead of that from bosnia or serbia?

 

[Elias2]

Julia there are still alot of greeks in southern albania. The actual numbers arn't clear due to distorted data. Check out this article of balkaninsight.com about albania and the upcomming albanian census;

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/albania-controversial-census-postponed-amid-row

The Albanian government is worried if they add an ethnicity label some albanians would recognise themselves as greeks.

 

[julia90]

Julia there are still alot of greeks in southern albania. The actual numbers arn't clear due to distorted data. Check out this article of balkaninsight.com about albania and the upcomming albanian census;

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/albania-controversial-census-postponed-amid-row

The Albanian government is worried if they add an ethnicity label some albanians would recognise themselves as greeks.

that's interesting, i think southern albanians should admit that they descend from ancient preistoric greek population (look at albania tribes map), for example here there is the aknowledgement that southern italy was once magna graecia, but it doesn't stop southern italian to be italians.
because greeks were one of the many people that inhabitated italy in the past, like messapian (illyrians), italics tribes, ligurians, etruscans, celts.

 

[julia90]

what are the pheatures (in look) that differenciate albanians from Serbians, Greeks, Bosnians, Macedonians etc..?

could have greek tribes constituted the ancient substratum (of population ) in ancient albanians before the arrivals of other tribes?

 

[Neander]

what are the pheatures (in look) that differenciate albanians from Serbians, Greeks, Bosnians, Macedonians etc..?

These features cannot be expressed with words, but you can see with ur eyes. But in the whole Serbs and Slavo-Macedones are darker than Albanians.

could have greek tribes constituted the ancient substratum (of population ) in ancient albanians before the arrivals of other tribes?

It is the contrary. Greeks in the begining didnt exist. The greek nation was created on the Pelasgian substratum, and Pelasgians have all words realted to today albanian language.

The greek nation for the first time was created in the 8 century. It is the inevtion of the:

1. Alphabet
2. Great Temples
3. Delphi
4. Greek language
5. Asiatic influence
6. Greek nation + myth of greek nation

The first greek nation lived only in three habitats:



As we can see there was no so-called "greek epirus" nor "greek macedonia"

Epirus and Macedonia were part of Pelasgian-Illyrian-Thracian substratum.

I don know where Greeks come from but they are comers in the Balkan.

As for Magna Graecia, it was a colony after 8-th century, but Illyrians lived in Italy before Greeks.

 

[Neander]

that's interesting, i think southern albanians should admit that they descend from ancient preistoric greek population (look at albania tribes map), for example here there is the aknowledgement that southern italy was once magna graecia, but it doesn't stop southern italian to be italians.

Wrong parallelle. Epirus is definitely illyrian nation in ancient times. They had illyrian names, illyrian names of tribes, and were not greeks. Greek language was just a lingua franca, as it was in all mediterranean.

 

[julia90]

that's interesting, greek languages and people expanded recently in the balkans.
indeed corfu (part of epirus) is considered more albanian than greek.

For example Pirro, the King of Epirus invaded italy from here:

and it says it was inabiated by illyrians (also it correspond to almost all modern albania)

 

[julia90]

in italy the illyrians population inhabitated Apulia, they were called iapygians (and were divided in Dauni, Messapi and Peucetii tribes).

do you think that the messapian inscription i posted days before here, could have affinity with modern albanian?

 

[julia90]

there are even some strange connections between sardinia and ancient illyria (albania),
in the ancient vocabulary of pre-roman sardianian populations:

sardo:eni ‘albero del tasso’= albanese enjë ‘albero del tasso’
sardo:alase ‘agrifoglio, pungitopo, gramigna’ (in sardo: laruspinosu ’alloro spinoso’) =albanese halë ‘spina’ halëz ‘spina’
sardo: lothiu ‘fangoso’, topp: Lotzorai, Lothorgo, Loceri, Lotzeri = albanese lloç ‘fanghiglia’
sardo: dròb(b)alu ‘intestino dei suini’ = albanese drobolì ‘intestino’
sardo: urtzula ‘clematide’, top. Urtzulei = albanese hurdh ‘edera’

could it be an I haplogroup connection???

 

[Elias2]

Wrong parallelle. Epirus is definitely illyrian nation in ancient times. They had illyrian names, illyrian names of tribes, and were not greeks. Greek language was just a lingua franca, as it was in all mediterranean.

Greek was lingua franca after alexander not before. Epirus was greek, deal with it, albainians wouldn't venture down south untill the middle ages. Ancient greeks were a melting pot of differnt peoples.

 

[julia90]

it's curious there is a greek city called Thyrreion in that map, like Thyrrenian, etruscans

 

[Elias2]

Example of and ancient epirus tribe: the Chaonians

The Chaonians (Greek: Χάονες, Chaones), were an ancient Greek[1] tribe that inhabited the region of Epirus in the north-west of modern Greece and southern Albania. On their southern frontier lay another Epirote kingdom, that of the Molossians, to their southwest stood the kingdom of the Thesprotians, and to their north lived the Illyrian tribes. According to Virgil, Chaon was the eponymous ancestor of the Chaonians.[2] By the 5th century BC, they had conquered and combined to a large degree with the neighboring Thesprotians and Molossians. The Chaonians were part of the Epirote League until 170 BC when their territory was annexed by the Roman Republic.

According to Strabo, the Chaonians (along with the Molossians) were the most famous among the fourteen tribes of Epirus, because they once ruled over the whole of Epirus.[3] The Illyrians occupied the coastal and hinterland regions further north; however, the Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax[4] makes a clear distinction between the Chaonians and the Illyrian tribes. The Illyrians and Chaonians appear to have had — at least at times — a confrontational relationship; Polybius recounts a devastating raid mounted in 230 BC by the Illyrians against Phoenice, the chief city of the Chaonians. The incident had major political ramifications. Many Italian traders who were in the town at the time of the sacking were killed or enslaved by the Illyrians, prompting the Roman Republic to launch the first of the two Illyrian Wars the following year.[5]\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaonians