Greatest Spanish contribution(s) to the world ?

[Maciamo]

Besides the Gypsy influence, that's a bit hard to believe, considering that Flamenco is only about 200 years old.

Why would it matter how old Flamenco is to be influenced by other, older traditions ? Ancient Greece and Rome disappeared long ago but we are still influenced by them. I don't know who created Flamenco (I never said they were Gypsies), but the ones who did certainly got their inspiration from various sources, including Sephardic Jewish, Moorish/Arabic, folkloric Spanish and Gypsy music.

[Maciamo]

I voted other. I think Spanish/Iberian culture in general would be their greatest contribution. A bit of a wooly answer, but I think as global cultures go it is very rich.

It would be nice to elaborate. Cultures usually refers mostly to the arts (including literature, music, painting, architecture and fashion), food, language and customs. I already listed food, painting and the guitar for music. I don't think that Spanish literature or fashion had a big impact on other cultures or is among the most widely acclaimed worldwide. Surely every major country has had its share of fashion designers or writers, but I am only interested in those that are really noteworthy and influential on a global scale. That's why I also didn't list fashion for Germany (despite Hugo Boss or Escada) or Japan (despite Kenzo and Issey Miyake), or literature for most countries besides Britain, France and Italy, despite their respective merits.

[loco_aullador]

Are they supposed to be famous outside the Spanish-speaking community (apart from Cervantes for one book, Don Quixote) ?



Famous worldwide ? I only know Zara...

Well if you have the cultural level of a bean is your problem.

[Drac]

Why would it matter how old Flamenco is to be influenced by other, older traditions ? Ancient Greece and Rome disappeared long ago but we are still influenced by them. I don't know who created Flamenco (I never said they were Gypsies), but the ones who did certainly got their inspiration from various sources, including Sephardic Jewish, Moorish/Arabic, folkloric Spanish and Gypsy music.

I don't see how people like Jews and "Moors", who were no longer present in Spain 200 years ago, have anything to do with a music/dance style that was "born" around that time. The Gypsy influence is perfectly understandable because the Gypsy minority had not been expelled and was (and still is) present in Andalusia at the time.

[Drac]

Are they supposed to be famous outside the Spanish-speaking community (apart from Cervantes for one book, Don Quixote) ?

You have never heard of Lope de Vega, Francisco Quevedo or Calderon de la Barca (this last one was translated into German many times and was much admired by Goethe)?

Besides Shakespeare, are most of the British writers you listed famous outside the English-speaking community? The only reason I have heard of some of them is because I studied in the United States.

[^ lynx ^]

I think that the forced conversions carried on by Spanish (and Portuguese) missionaries can be seen as an extension of the Spanish Inquisition. The purpose of the inquisition is to subdue the biggest part of the world population as possible to Roman Catholicism. It is a sort of Christian Jihad, if you will.

Ridiculous. The missionaries weren't members of the inquisition. Being part of the Catholic Church does not automatically turn you into an evil Inquisitor.

The spanish inquisition only stablished in the cities of Lima, Mexico and Cartagena de Indias.

Sorry, but you seems to have a very stereotyped vision on Catholicism.

Regards.

[Maciamo]

Besides Shakespeare, are most of the British writers you listed famous outside the English-speaking community? The only reason I have heard of some of them is because I studied in the United States.

Many British writers are famous world-wide thanks to adaptations of their work by Hollywood (many Dickens, like Oliver Twist or Great Expectations, but also 20th-century writers like J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings or J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter) or Disney (notably Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, the Jungle Book, or Winnie the Pooh). Don't tell me that these names are unfamiliar to you. British literature had a tremendous influence on modern American, European and Japanese culture. Spanish literature just didn't.

[Maciamo]

Ridiculous. The missionaries weren't members of the inquisition. Being part of the Catholic Church does not automatically turn you into an evil Inquisitor.
The spanish inquisition only stablished in the cities of Lima, Mexico and Cartagena de Indias.
Sorry, but you seems to have a very stereotyped vision on Catholicism.
Regards.

Missionaries were generally Jesuits. The Jesuits were an army-like order founded during the Spanish Inquisition with the purpose to fight the rise of Protestantism and other heretic faiths. In other words they were the Pope's spiritual army, the pillars of the Inquisition. Amazing that a Spaniard shouldn't know that. But perhaps you were not educated at a Jesuit college.

[Drac]

Many British writers are famous world-wide thanks to adaptations of their work by Hollywood (many Dickens, like Oliver Twist or Great Expectations, but also 20th-century writers like J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings or J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter) or Disney (notably Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, the Jungle Book, or Winnie the Pooh). Don't tell me that these names are unfamiliar to you. British literature had a tremendous influence on modern American, European and Japanese culture. Spanish literature just didn't.

If you have to rely on movies for people to have heard of your writings then you couldn't possibly have been that influential. The writers we are talking about achieved their well-recognized fame in an age where such audio-visual means of mass communication did not exist. The works of these people were actually read and translated for audiences other than their fellow countrymen.

Most people who watch Disney movies haven't got the slightest idea of who the authors behind those tales are.

Somehow I think that the above mentioned Spanish playwrights and writers are way more influential in the history of literature than authors of children's tales. I don't see many PhD dissertations and theses being written about "Winnie the Pooh", but plenty on Quevedo's, Lope de Vega's and Calderon de la Barca's works.

[^ lynx ^]

Missionaries were generally Jesuits. The Jesuits were an army-like order founded during the Spanish Inquisition with the purpose to fight the rise of Protestantism and other heretic faiths. In other words they were the Pope's spiritual army, the pillars of the Inquisition. Amazing that a Spaniard shouldn't know that. But perhaps you were not educated at a Jesuit college.

Since there were no protestantism in America by then you may understand that their activies were (in most cases) quite different from those that made the Inquisition so infamous. Jesuit missions in Latin America were very controversial in Europe, especially in Spain and Portugal where they were seen as interfering with the proper colonial enterprises of the royal governments. The Jesuits were often the only force standing between the Native Americans and slavery.

Regards.

[Carlitos]

Cadieux dancers of ancient Rome, according to Martial and other classical authors. Century I.
http://www.andalucia.cc/viva/mujer/v...gaditanas.html

In Rome, the dancers of Cadiz were as famous as the Syrian and equally desirable and exciting in dance and song. His presence was required in many feasts of Rome, happy people (Plin. 1.15). Martial (VI.71) describes one as follows : Expert in lascivious postures to the sound of castanets and dance béticas as the rhythms of Gades, capable of returning the force on the members of the old Pelias And of burning her husband of Hecuba herself beside the funeral pyre of Hector. Teletusa consume and torture to its former owner. Sold as a servant and has now purchased for a concubine.

The earliest mention of the dancers of Cadiz, who were also at the same time singing and music, we read in Strabo (II.3.4), taking the data of Posidonius, which at the beginning of s. I a. C., was in Cadiz studying the phenomenon of the tides.





Perhaps these ancient dances are the source of flamenco.

[Maciamo]

Since there were no protestantism in America by then you may understand that their activies were (in most cases) quite different from those that made the Inquisition so infamous. Jesuit missions in Latin America were very controversial in Europe, especially in Spain and Portugal where they were seen as interfering with the proper colonial enterprises of the royal governments. The Jesuits were often the only force standing between the Native Americans and slavery.

Regards.

Millions of Amerindians were killed by the Spaniards because they refused to convert the Christianity. This in my eyes is just another expression of the spirit of religious madness of the Spanish Inquisition. And the Jesuits are linked to massacres and tortures in both Europe and the Americas.

[Maciamo]

If you have to rely on movies for people to have heard of your writings then you couldn't possibly have been that influential.

I can't understand this reasoning. That's justly because they were renowned writers to start with that Hollywood or Disney adapted the stories on screen. Harry Potter sold tens of millions of copies before the first film was made, for instance. Hollywood will take any good story in any language. It's true that English-speaking literature has an advantage compared to other languages, but there are countless screen adaptation from French, Russian or Japanese books, yet very few from Spanish ones.

Most people who watch Disney movies haven't got the slightest idea of who the authors behind those tales are.

It doesn't matter. Most people don't know anything about anything. How many people do you know who can tell you who invented the piano or the submarine or the lawn mower or the microwave oven ? What interests me in this kind of topic is the overall influence that a nation had on the rest of the world and on modern society, regardless of whether people were aware of it. Many people will read the polls and learn for the first time that the Dutch invented the CD and CD-ROM, a Belgian invented the saxophone, a Frenchman invented photography, and a Spaniard invented epidural analgesia. Yet they did it, and people all over the world are grateful for it. That's what I mean by "contribution to the world". Now in what way did authors such as Quevedo or Lope de Vega have a similar impact on global modern society ?

[Regulus]

Millions of Amerindians were killed by the Spaniards because they refused to convert the Christianity. .

I dread getting involved in these types of topics as they tend ignite firestorms. The above claim seems to have been taken 'out of the playbook' of Protestant Dutch propaganda from the days of the Dutch-Spanish wars. Much of the wildly exaggerated accusations that were turned out en masse by printing presses and eagerly read by societies that had high literacy rates (Dutch and English) have come to be accepted as actual history.

The literate Protestant countries made great efforts to paint their enemies in as evil, lurid terms as possible. Thus we see little about French, Italian, or other Catholics. The Spanish, however, were depicted to be some sort of disgusting, evil subhuman people. 'Spaniard' acquired connotations of gross, immoral, thuggish, and filthy, etc. It was implied that all of them were as inbred as their ruling class was.

The picture of Spaniards running around killing indigenous people who refused to convert is as embellished as the numbers given by these same sources for deaths from the Spanish Inquisition. Recall numbers thrown about such as the 93 million, a number of people that surpassed the actual amount of people living in all of Europe at the time.


The Spanish were clearly more concerned with labor issues than they were with actually caring what people believed. They wanted the silver and the gold mined. The refusal of many Spanish to dig trenches in the Netherlands speaks volumes about the essentially medieval outlook many Spanish had towards manual labor.

We can see practices in Mexico, for example that are not even thinly veiled as Christian. Santeria also exists is Latin American countries. I doubt that the authorities really cared much as long as long as their priests were confident that no one’s heart was being cut out from their chest while alive.

Protests from Spanish religious people (monks, priests) who abhorred the treatment of the natives were voiced about the treatment itself. One does not read complaints from these people such as "The civil authorities went in and killed everybody".

Smallpox killed far more indigenous than swords or musket balls. The death rate among these people from diseases is what lead to the African slave trade. They needed people (in their view) to do the work.


Were the Spanish nice or benevolent to the indigenous? Of course not. Europeans across the board were awful to those that lived in the Americas, as were the societies that grew out of them. But we should try to get away from the ideas of widespread atrocities that have come to be accepted as fact but were mostly just accusations made by their enemies.

[^ lynx ^]

Millions of Amerindians were killed by the Spaniards because they refused to convert the Christianity. This in my eyes is just another expression of the spirit of religious madness of the Spanish Inquisition. And the Jesuits are linked to massacres and tortures in both Europe and the Americas.

Millions of amerindians were turned into slaves and killed by the greed of the spanish... soldiers and by epidemics of new diseases introduced by the europeans.

Today, millions of amerindians, and latin americans of other different ethnic backgrounds in Central America, Mexico and most part of South America are fiercely catholics, more than the spaniards and even more than the italians. Central America/Southern-Mexico (the regions with the biggest ammount of amerindian population) are probably the most catholic regions in the continent.

I find hard to believe that the Catholic Church accomplished such thing through a bloody rampage of twisted tortures and murders of apocalyptic porpotions. Such overdimensioned histories are more proper of american terror films from the 60's or protestantism's Black Legend.

Regards.

[Cambrius (The Red)]

I dread getting involved in these types of topics as they tend ignite firestorms. The above claim seems to have been taken 'out of the playbook' of Protestant Dutch propaganda from the days of the Dutch-Spanish wars. Much of the wildly exaggerated accusations that were turned out en masse by printing presses and eagerly read by societies that had high literacy rates (Dutch and English) have come to be accepted as actual history.

The literate Protestant countries made great efforts to paint their enemies in as evil, lurid terms as possible. Thus we see little about French, Italian, or other Catholics. The Spanish, however, were depicted to be some sort of disgusting, evil subhuman people. 'Spaniard' acquired connotations of gross, immoral, thuggish, and filthy, etc. It was implied that all of them were as inbred as their ruling class was.

The picture of Spaniards running around killing indigenous people who refused to convert is as embellished as the numbers given by these same sources for deaths from the Spanish Inquisition. Recall numbers thrown about such as the 93 million, a number of people that surpassed the actual amount of people living in all of Europe at the time.


The Spanish were clearly more concerned with labor issues than they were with actually caring what people believed. They wanted the silver and the gold mined. The refusal of many Spanish to dig trenches in the Netherlands speaks volumes about the essentially medieval outlook many Spanish had towards manual labor.

We can see practices in Mexico, for example that are not even thinly veiled as Christian. Santeria also exists is Latin American countries. I doubt that the authorities really cared much as long as long as their priests were confident that no one’s heart was being cut out from their chest while alive.

Protests from Spanish religious people (monks, priests) who abhorred the treatment of the natives were voiced about the treatment itself. One does not read complaints from these people such as "The civil authorities went in and killed everybody".

Smallpox killed far more indigenous than swords or musket balls. The death rate among these people from diseases is what lead to the African slave trade. They needed people (in their view) to do the work.


Were the Spanish nice or benevolent to the indigenous? Of course not. Europeans across the board were awful to those that lived in the Americas. But we should try to get away from the ideas of widespread atrocities that have come to be accepted as fact but were mostly just accusations made by their enemies.

Nicely put...

There is much history that has been purposely exaggerated. Every month or so I read new material that refutes previously accepted historical information.

[Regulus]

For any 'Simpsons' fans out there, the best line I ever heard was from the Nuclear Reactor's owner C. Montgomery Burns.

He of course is a character engrossed in the past. He speaks as if terms such as Prussia, Siam, autogyro, etc, are still in use to describe existing states or services. He once asked about the status in his stock in "Consolidated Slave Holdings". He answers the telephone with Alexander Graham Bell's suggested greeting of "Ahoy, ahoy".


Anyway, one day he sees the comic book store owner and says "Look at the that portly fellow CALMLY eating candy like a Spaniard!"

He spits out 'Spaniard" as if he has to force himself to say it. It is hilarious.

[Cambrius (The Red)]

For any 'Simpsons' fans out there, the best line I ever heard was from the Nuclear Reactor's owner C. Montgomery Burns.

He of course is a character engrossed in the past. He speaks as if terms such as Prussia, Siam, autogyro, etc, are still in use to describe existing states or services. He once asked about the status in his stock in "Consolidated Slave Holdings". He answers the telephone with Alexander Graham Bell's suggested greeting of "Ahoy, ahoy".


Anyway, one day he sees the comic book store owner and says "Look at the that portly fellow CALMLY eating candy like a Spaniard!"

He spits out 'Spaniard" as if he has to force himself to say it. It is hilarious.

Yes, quite hilarious.

[Carlitos]

In the past some Eastern European countries were very bad propaganda to all things Spanish, from the effects linger even today, in practice any other European power killed more people during the Inquisition and made more atrocities in their colonies to Spain, but as always, a wool carding and others are famous.

[Wilhelm]

Millions of Amerindians were killed by the Spaniards because they refused to convert the Christianity. This in my eyes is just another expression of the spirit of religious madness of the Spanish Inquisition. And the Jesuits are linked to massacres and tortures in both Europe and the Americas.

That is completely false and part of the black legend. The spaniards didn't kill millions of amerindians. About 99% of the deaths were caused by small pox and other european diseases to which amerindians were not prepared.

[Regulus]

[QUOTE=Carlitos;during the Inquisition and made more atrocities in their colonies to Spain, but as always, a wool carding and others are famous.[/QUOTE]


OK, I am curious.

What phrase translates as 'wool carding'? and what does it mean literally?

[Wilhelm]

I don't think that Spanish literature or fashion had a big impact on other cultures or is among the most widely acclaimed worldwide.

Well, Spain has some examples of impact global literature such us Don Quixote, which has been translated in more than 50 languages.

[Regulus]

OK, I am curious.

What phrase translates as 'wool carding'? and what does it mean literally?

Please, Carlitos help! What did you mean by 'Wool carding"? I'll take help from anyone here.

I mean, what exact Spanish words are used here and what do they mean when phrased in that manner?

[Carlitos]

OK, I am curious.

What phrase translates as 'wool carding'? and what does it mean literally?

Carded wool would work either physically or intellectually.



Unos cardan la lana y otros se llevan la fama.

En positivo: Unos trabajan bien y otros se llevan la fama de ese trabajo.


En negativo: Unos hacen fechorías y otros se llevan la mala fama de esas fechorías.

[Carlitos]

Please, Carlitos help! What did you mean by 'Wool carding"? I'll take help from anyone here.

I mean, what exact Spanish words are used here and what do they mean when phrased in that manner?

In this case I mean that in most countries that brought the Inquisition had more civilian executions in Spain, but the bad reputation it has Spain.

Unos cardan la lana y otros se llevan la fama.