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View Poll Results: Would you accept Israel as an EU member?

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  • Yes

    4 10.81%
  • Yes, but when the war with Palestine and the hate between them would be ended

    6 16.22%
  • No

    27 72.97%
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Thread: Would you accept Israel as a member of the EU?

  1. #26
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    Haha.. Communalism is a rather old concept. It worked in Europe, at least in the Duchy of Brabant.
    It's a way of life that is the middle between communism and capitalism.

    At least it brought great prosperity to Brabant, and in return that set greedy eyes on our Duchy.
    Now, in Europe, this concept can be done again.
    Because now we should have a common defense force, that defends Europe, and doesn't join the adventures of the USA and her satellite states.

    BTW.. It's somewhat the same concept as the Israelian Kibbutz..
    The good side of Israel..

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    I subscribe comrade

    But you as man of left-wing socialist views should know that in RF communists are all fake. The leader of communist party have a Mercedes of 600th model and luxurious house ("thanks" to communist party members and their party dues). Proletariat in indignation .

    What do you want then? European fake or Anglo-American fake?
    Let's have our own..

    Anyway, a Mercedes is cheaper than a Daimler or a Bentley.
    On the other hand.. Who wants an American car?

  3. #28
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    Anyway, a Mercedes is cheaper than a Daimler...

    Daimler like this one?
    http://www.daimler.com/
    Laineart, you always look less funny with your mouth shut.

    In a light of your communal longings and character, remind us again why do you dream about rich women?
    Everybody should live in communes but you should be the king, right mister bullshit?

    Laineart's communal motto:
    ...and if you don't like it, you shut up...

  4. #29
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    What do you want then? European fake or Anglo-American fake?
    Let's have our own..
    If you asking about left wing or right wing then I kinda in the middle, believe that capitalist and the socialist ideas completing each other. But without extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    Anyway, a Mercedes is cheaper than a Daimler or a Bentley.
    On the other hand.. Who wants an American car?
    Actually not only communists corrupted; many politicians in RF are "poor" on the paper, but their wives have a lot of real estate

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    i am not humoring anybody. but your reply smells like you are trying to joke about me.

    anyway... i will declare my opinion for the posters who takes into account (if there is anyone).

    i believe the EU (i forget the former name) is a project and founded by the developed european countries. the founders were already rich and developed, but, indivisually, small w.r.t US and USSR. So, their aim was to get the synergic effect of grouping in the beginning. with the help of succesfull portugal and spain experiments, and, with the collapse of USSR, they wanted to go after not only for economical benefits but the power also to compete with the US in controlling the different parts of the world. in this second stage they forgive some of their prosperity for the newcomers to control europe as a beginning. but there were some weak points in this project, like euro, nationalism of each country etc. etc..... anyway, it is a long story and may be discussed in another topic.

    As a conclusion, the main idea: EU was, allready, a necessity for europeans against US and it would be absurd if US would join the union.

    P.S. please dont answer lebrok, i had enough dissappointment about you.
    I like you barbarian, and I honestly think you're a great guy and good human being.
    I just can't resist pocking holes in conspiracy theory balloons.

  6. #31
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    Ending a war with Palestine is not enough. Israel has to pay and apologize for its crimes - it has to join the International Criminal Tribunal and send all its generals accused of war crimes on trial in The Hague. Then, Knesset is obliged to adopt a resolution condemning and apologizing for the crimes, a monument to the victims shall be built in Jerusalem and a version of "vergangenheitsbewältigung" has to take place. Of course, Israel must recognise the independent Palestine and have diplomatic relations with it. Also, government shall form Commission for Truth and Reconciliation.

    If this all happens, but since Israel is a far right ethnocratic dictatorship it never will, I would accept Israel as member of the European Union.

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    Only on the same day Palestine joins and that they respect each other. As far as the EU is concerned both sides should know they will not get full respect from the EU until they reach a mutual agreement

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post
    Yes, maple leaf awakened the bear and he is angry .
    I just a little bit amazed, Canadians here absolutely openly promote U.S. government interests which can be formulated in the simple principle "keep Russians out of Europe, Americans inside and Germans in a tight rein (under total control)". And no need to change theme on abstract topics
    You're so wrong- not all Canadians like US- in fact- results of the survey done a few years ago has shown that most of the Canadians don't like US way of "cowboy democracy" at all... They just act as world bullies, making up all the excuses to grab whatever they need from the rest of the world (first- it was Soviet block, then "war against the terrorism)...

  9. #34
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    Well, I understand that. Some American citizens portray themselves as Canadians.
    And spam the internet with right wing US shit.

    Hmm.. seemann could be one of them, reading his other postings.

  10. #35
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    Would you accept Israel as a member of the EU?
    Today? No...

    Tomorrow? Maybe...
    ...if US stop to help and to approve them...
    ...if they are in peace with Palestine and less arrogant with Arabic countries...
    ...if we accept Turkey in the EU...

    "I have a dream" he said...

  11. #36
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    I think Turkey is moving further and further away from Europe every day.
    And Israel shouldn't become a EU member ever!
    They are not European.
    And I think also, that England isn't European, but a US state.

    Kick England out of the EU, give Northern Ireland back to the Irish,
    and let Wales and Scotland also become members of the EU.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    I think Turkey is moving further and further away from Europe every day.
    agree.

    i feel like "major tom" in Space Oddity.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSYbRiYwTY

  13. #38
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    No, simply because they're not Europeans.

  14. #39
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    No, for the same reason Turkey shouldn't join. They are not Europeans. They shouldn't participate in european sports events either, but I guess it's too late for that...

  15. #40
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    Everybody lined up to get into the club, but now that the cards tower is crumbling and about to fall (funny that a crisis that started in the US will shatter the EU...), some countries will be relieved they couldn't join in time. As for Turkey, the events in northern Africa will make her a role model for wannabe democrats that will not fall into the islamic integrism at the first opportunity. Israel in the EU? Who can swear the EU will still be around tomorrow?

  16. #41
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    I believe Israel should get in EU so it would be under bether control

  17. #42
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    I think that nobody seriously wants Israel as EU Member for many reason. Expecially because Europe is living a difficult moment and to discuss about Israel in the EU would only make things more difficult. I think both EU and Israel have their different problems to think and to solve.

  18. #43
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    Yes but not now. The next evolution of mankind will see groups of countries all over the world uniting, just like the EU today. I think it's inevitable that the EU will expand into areas of the old Roman Empire. I.e. all countries that border the Mediterranean Sea. However I think that such countries need to come a LONG way before they can be accepted into us. The start has already begun with the Arab spring and those people crying out and fighting for long-awaited democracy! Then give it about 40-50 years for them to sort themselves out, get a little freer and richer, then they will be a perfect fit for the EU.

  19. #44
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I can't see why not, given that Turkey will be the next euro-member. If the EU accepts Turkey, then Israel is also a suitable candidate as they are more European (culturally speaking) than Turkey.

  20. #45
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    first of all Turkey is a secular republic. what about israel? they are not suitable for EU. Their purposes are so different. they are so radical and cruel against arabs. nobody cannot compare turkey and israel. Israel is an unnatural country. Still they are not legal, their behaviours are not legal. EU cannot accept Israel.

  21. #46
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    It sounds like you are a muslim.
    Should Kurds have their own country from part of Turkey, same as Palestinians from part of Israel?

  22. #47
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    I don't think the 'Israel is not geographically part of Europe' argument is valid. I see the E.U. one day expanding beyond the traditional 'European' borders. I mean look at turkey, 97% of it is in Asia.

    I personally wouldn't mind Israel one day being part of the EU, but it has a hell of a lot of shit to sort out before it does, and personally I don't see it sorting them out ANY time soon.

  23. #48
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    I agree that a question of Israels part of the European civilization is complicated considering the history of the Ashkenazi, and I think that one can rightly argue that it both is and isn't. But I don't think that is the discussion. Neither do I consider the issue of EU OCTs and OMRs an argument of side-stepping the membership criteria. French Guiana is until other is reported a part of France. I think that Cape Verde could only have been in the EU as an autonomous part of Portugal, and as such it's future is West African. Australia and New Zealand would make great members. That is not in their future, and I don't think it is in Israel's either.

    In Brussels there are federalists, confederalists, maximalists, minimalists, localists, regionalists, anarkists, conservatists, socialists, nationalists, imperialists who agree and disagree in varying issues. I am sure that there is a decent amount of people representing every possible shape and form of a future European Union, including that of a global super power. But this is not what the European Idea is about, it's not the purpose and the vision of the Civilization state, and I think it will be hard to find broad consent to that in Europe on any level.

    Thus, I think that the likelihood to form a future consensus in changing the content of enlargement policy - from that of the Copenhagen criteria - to include non-European democracies is slim. In addition to that, I believe we are beginning to discern the final shape of the EU concerning enlargement. I do not believe the EU will include anymore countries from around the Black Sea, including Belarus and Israel.

    And I don't think that we should close our eyes to the development of the world around and pretend that the EU is alone. What we have been doing in Europe for half a century is echoing around the world on every continent and civilization, and our failures and successes building the European Confederacy is followed and setting precedent.

    We can't and we won't continuously include every next fringe country that would like to be in the EU. Where does Europe end? I think we will have a decent picture of that in 2020.

    Beyond that I don't see Israel any more eligible than Algeria - which can call on strong arguments as well - to join the EU, and I do not believe it is in it's best interest. I think that any mutual benefits for the EU and Israel can be found and met in bilateral agreements of trade and cooperation. There is no reason to include Israel in our political institutions and I certainly question the grounds on such a position. How would it benefit Israels geopolitical positions and relations within the region with at European Union membership? Would it not further set it apart and alienate it from it's neighbors? We can and we will support Israels continued existence even outside the EU.

    The European Idea and the civilization state is easily translated into other parts of the world. I believe that Israels future lies in a Middle-Eastern regional cooperation, with mutual acceptance and friendship with it's neighbors, and assurances that threats, war and violence is multilaterally difficult to resort to. This would be possible with regional interdependence and integration. This can only start to become a reality when Palestine is declared a sovereign country, and the democratization of the Maghreb and the Mashriq will pave the way for such a reality.

    In the mean time, I think we must support the safety of Israel as well as criticize it when it abuses the rights of it's neighbors. I believe that a friend supports, and that a good friend sometimes says no. I believe this includes membership into the European Union.
    Last edited by Michael Folkesson; 20-03-12 at 07:44.

  24. #49
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    I'd rather see Israel as U.S.A. member, than E.U. member. =)

  25. #50
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    If Israel were granted member status, they'd better change the name because by definition it won't be a European Union anymore since Israel is not in Europe.

    I think it's important to remember that in many ways, Muslims today are not unlike the Jews of old Europe. Semitic culture, living in ghettos, regarding assimilation as unfavourable and disloyal to their ancestors, devoutly obedient to the laws of Abraham (exactly like Muslims, remember that Muhammad is merely the final prophet of Islam not the ONLY prophet). I think it took a long time before any real assimilation occurred and the jews actually changed their religious culture because of it, emphasising the "academic" aspects of their religion, memorisation of Torah, debate of Talmud, etc etc. I didn't even mention anything about the dislike of out-marriage to gentiles...for another time.

    The basis of Israel is not democracy, it's ethnocentrism. That being said, i have no emotional attachment to the issue, i'm just trying to be objective and insightful.

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