Napoleon was E1b1b1c1*, which is the EZ-830 branch, together with Einstein.
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Alexander the great
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Napoleon was E1b1b1c1*, which is the EZ-830 branch, together with Einstein.
Alexandros
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How do you know that? Have you been there? Evidence on blond hair and blue eyes exists in ancient Greek scripts. The issue here is that some people have some stereotypes (i.e. Greeks are dark-skinned, dark-haired) and they go with that. Of course many ancient Greeks did have dark skin. They lived in temperatures of up to 40[FONT=arial, sans-serif]°C in the summer! However, if you know anything about Greek history, you will know that the Mycenaean Greeks who came from the North and established the first proper Greek civilization, were R1a people (i.e. blonde, unless you believe that modern day Russians are also dark-skinned). Also, the Dorians who arrived some 300 years later, were also probably mainly blonde people (ancient R1b). If you go to Greece today, you will see many people with blond hair and blue eyes, especially in the Macedonia region of North Greece, where the proportions of dark skin/hair to fair skin/hair are almost 50-50%. Therefore, Alexander the Great and any other Greek of that period could had easily been blonde. [/FONT]
Hitler nor bonaparte were EV-13, but they were E, just another subclade. it was the wright brothers that were EV-13. and if i remember correctly they were from around Essex, studies have shown EV-13 to of been found there.. I read a paper that this haplogroup is believed to of arrived there from Illyrian/Thracian soldiers that were in the Roman army.
I've read many papers about this, that I didn't find again, one was called Illyrican soldiery in britain or something; but here is one I found,
http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm
also on haplogroup E in this site it says the wright brothers were EV-13, and they were originally from london area.
and also a J2 subclade, the same as in balkan I think was found. correct me if i read wrong.
E and J in britain, it's believed to be from Thracian, Dacian and Illyrian soldiers in the Roman army. the place where this E was found was also the same place where thracian, dacian and illyrian soldiers were stationed.
I really doubt alexander the great was nordic blonde. more like light brown haired... which is considered blond in the balkans. we also have nordic blonds but it's more rare, but common among children but as they grow up they become darker, it's normal in caucasian children.
Yetos
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It says mainly M78 which is parental of -V13
M78 in Balkans is rare limited to south Greece only,
remember Britain was colonised by Phoenicians, which also are carriers of E and J and rich in M78 which is very rare in Balkans, (only 2 found in S Greece, 0 in rest of Balkans)
Yetos
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here in this forum,
after carthago Phonicians colonise Iberia and Britain.
The Phoenicians were the major trading power in the Mediterranean in the early part of the first millennium BC. They had trading contacts in Egypt and Greece, and established colonies as far west as modern Spain, at Gadir (modern Cádiz). From Gadir they controlled access to the Atlantic Ocean and the trade routes to Britain. The most famous and successful of Phoenician colonies was Kart-Hadasht (Qart-ḥadašt, literally "New Town"), a colony founded from Tyre. It would eventually be known as Carthage.
For identifying distinct Phoenicians male genetic traces in nowadays contemporary populations, Zalloua studied sites influenced by the Phoenicians on the basis of well-recorded historical documents, from which Y-chromosomal material was sampled, in conjunction with comparative data from the literature. Of the counterparts used were the coastal Lebanese heartland versus the rest of the Levant (Phoenician periphery), Phoenician Mediterranean colonies versus Phoenician trading centers, and trading centers versus Phoenician non-influenced sites sharing distance proximity. The research drew a conclusion upon the given and was that haplogroup J2, for the most part, and the six Y-STR haplotypes, in particular, exhibited the Phoenician distinguishable signature. Haplotypes PCS1+, a Phoenician colonization signal, through PCS6+ therefore represent lineages that have likely been spread by the Phoenicians.[23]
In spite the fact that each STR+ comprises colonies established at distinct geographical sites across the Mediterranean, each remains rooted with high frequencies in the Phoenician heartland. This argues for a joint source of related lineages deep-rooted in Lebanon.[23]
Strabo states that there was a highly lucrative Phoenician trade with Britain for tin.
From elsewhere, they obtained other materials, perhaps the most important being silver from the Iberian Peninsula and tin from Great Britain, the latter of which when smelted with copper from Cyprus created the durable metal alloy bronze.
[url]http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/phoe/hd_phoe.htm
Sea traders from Phoenicia and Carthage (a Phoenician colony traditionally founded in 814 B.C.) even ventured beyond the Strait of Gibraltar as far as Britain in search of tin.
[/URL]
Yetos
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Zanipolo had posted and discused more in this forum, But I am not in mood to find it,
in Britain they found Iberian/Phoenician settlements
Fire Haired
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since alexander the great was macidonean and when compared to Greeks and macidonens today my guess is he most lilkley had either Y DNA I2a1b which is teh most popular Y DNA haplogroup in southeastern europe and most popular one in macidonia and used to be the most popular Y DNA haplogroup in eastern europe before Indo European inavsion
here is a link that explains it http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-in-ethnic-groups-of-pre-Indo-European-Europe
also a 2,500 year old Egyptien mummy had Y DNA I2a1b and this was in the time of Greek influence the second most likley Y DNA haplogroup he had i think is either R1a1a1b1, R1b L150, R1b L23, or E1b1b V13 Y DNA R1a1a1b1 is from Indo Europeans alexander was from a high ranking mascedonian family his father was buried in a kurgen a traditional high ranking indo european burail if his family had always been high rank there is a very good chance he had R1a1a1b1
silkyslovanbojkovsky
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Mycenaean Greeks most likely Had a lot of R1a, so if he was like you said descendants of the ruling class, I think his chances would be higher for R1a than R1b.
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Noman
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He had blonde hair so he was probably not e1b, which is undoubtedly a legacy of the huge number of jews to move to constantinople in byzantine times. The J2 was probably mostly settled there during ottoman empire times, especially the ciscassians and huge amounts of other georgian and crimean peoples, who were used to police the empire and especially the christians.
The r1as came down to invade the pre-classic greeks, before that they were just barbarians. So since he's blonde then I will go with I, though g or another possibility that could be the case.
RHAS
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"The Saluja’s have been a dynamic and mobile group of business people and professionals from North India. They hail from the region north of the river Jhelum, that divides the Jhelum & Gujrat districts, an area along the Salt mines (now in Pakistan). Historical records indicate that Alexander the Great of Macedonia came to India (326 B.C) crossing the Khyber Pass to Taxila near Rawalpindi. Alexander advanced to the northwest bank of the river Jhelum to the village of Haranpur, where allegedly the Macedonians set up their base camp prior to the battle with King Porus. It is quite conceivable that people from that area of North India particularly Haranpur, Jalalpur & surroundings to have Genes of people from Greece. In fact, DNA Analysis suggests that Saluja’s belong to the DNA Haplogroup J2b, which has its origin in Greece. J2b (M12, M314, M221, M102), and is mainly found in the Balkans, Greece, Italy, and India (possibly from Neolithic Greeks)*****J2b1 (M205) - formerly J2b1b. The Saluja family history can be traced directly to this historical melting pot."
Migration of Indians Across Continents spanning generations: A Case History of the Saluja Family.
http://www.amazon.com/Migration-Indians-Continents-spanning-generations/dp/0615469035
"Both E-V13 and J-M12 have also been used in studies seeking to find evidence of a remaining Greek presence in Afghanistan and Pakistan, going back to the time of Alexander the Great."
Wikipedia.org - Haplogroup E V-68.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-V68_(Y-DNA
"In which country did Mr. J2b2 live? Did Mr. J2b2 live in the Balkans and then his descendants move to India. Or was was it that Mr. J2b2 lived in India and then his descendants moved to the Balkans. One of the theories is that Mr. J2b2's descendant were part of Alexander the Greats army which made itself all the way to India."
Barr-Kumarakulasinghe’s and other families.
http://barrkumar.com/dna/whats_j2b2.html
"Several authors have proposed that the Indo-European language presently spoken by Armenians arose during the Bronze Age, when Indo-European speaking tribes from the Balkans and Greece invaded Anatolia and Transcaucasia, leading to the subsequent spread of their culture and language. In this study, we have detected a number of lineages that are prominent in the Balkans (I2*, I2b*, J2b1 and J2b2) at low levels throughout Ararat Valley, Gardman and Lake Van, the latter of which also contains haplogroups commonly associated with Bronze Age Greece (ie, J2a8-M319 (4.9%), and E1b1b1-M78 and its sublineages (3.9%)). While this may suggest genetic input from early Greek or Phrygian tribes, it is also possible that these low levels of Balkan lineages arrived in Armenia at a later time, such as during one of the many incursions into the area during the reign of the Macedonian, Roman and Byzantine empires."
Neolithic patrilineal signals indicate that the Armenian plateau was repopulated by agriculturalists.
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v20/n3/full/ejhg2011192a.html
"The political influence of Seleucid and Bactrian dynastic Greeks over northwest India, for example, persisted for several centuries after the invasion of the army of Alexander the Great."
The Genetic Heritage of the Earliest Settlers Persists Both in Indian Tribal and Caste Populations.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929707605412
"J2a is also present in Egypt which was conquered by Macedonian Greeks, as well as Iran, but drops to a small frequency in India, and is there limited to the upper castes. This may reflect its presence in the ancient Indo-Aryans and its survival in the Brahmin caste, or alternatively may be the result of intermarriage between the Bactrian Greek aristocracy and high-class Hindus."
Dienekes Anthropology Blog, 2005.
http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2005/12/did-haplogroup-j2a1-originate-in.html
"Haplogroup J2b-M12 was frequent in Thessaly and Greek Macedonia while haplogroup J2a-M410 was scarce."
Differential Y-chromosome Anatolian Influences on the Greek and Cretan Neolithic, 2008.
http://www.atlascom.gr/HELLENIC_DNA_PAPER.PDF
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Noman
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But for starters alexander the great is a barabarian, from macedonia, not greece at all. There's no evidence to say r1a had been there until then (or that to then they had been any big force of any kind), but the macedonians had been established a while. Long story short r1a just got there, and his description sounds more nordic than it does slavic, so I don't think he is r1a.
silkyslovanbojkovsky
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what a ridiculous statement, Jews brought e1b and ottomons J2? what kind of hidden agenda do you have?
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Noman
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The ridiculous statement is to think j2 correlates to the greeks. You can see clearly that I haplogroup has been pushed west from greece and r1a came down out of the north in bronze age collapse. There's also tons of artifacts showing the pre-classic greeks were nothing like modern greeks or classic greeks. The modern greeks and classic greeks and pre-classic greeks are absolutely nothing to do with each other. Zero, zip. In looks, artifacts, and DNA.
Of course jews brought e1b, that is the biggest source of it outside of middle east. It is the "semitic" component of jews, and also of berbers, and originates in the levant. The samaritans from levant and north africa got mixed in with jews (who are J) and that is your e1b. There's also some e1b in neolithic farmers but it's much rarer. In any case nobody's getting blonde hair out of e1b ancestry.
Ottomans brought in majority of the crimean population and settled them in balkans, that's most of your j2. Some of that probably comes from jews as well. It's really just history. Jews couldn't hold land anywhere, they had to work in cities so when rome collapses they moved to constantinople and spain. Later they got forced out of spain and france and moved to austria and poland en masse. When poland conquered lithuania they moved there en masse as well. They never integrated in those places because they weren't allowed to, in USA they have completely integrated.
So whatever your point is, it's wrong.
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Noman
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Well it's pretty simple.
Here is the aaronic jewish dna in greece. Look at map.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HG_J1_(ADN-Y).PNG
Doesn't come from anywhere but jews.
Einstein was the e1b as well.
When you take out the euro dna picked up from their local position, jews are about 50/50 for aaronic and samaritan DNA.
So to see what the ancient e1b is you take out the same amount as the aaronic y-dna first. WHOOPS! It doesn't exist anywhere but south austria and a couple other spots once you do. Math, how does it work? Well we don't expect it to because it came along with G and G basrely exists any more either.
So yes all or anyway the vast majority of that greek e1b comes from jews, not from the VERY few neolithic farmers who made it all the way into modern times with no mixing. And even then, it has the same origin. It's levant/natufian/samaritan DNA. It's semitic, in fact that's the only thing semitic about jews, where they get any semitic looks (for the ones that have it).
So basically it comes down to a lot of people trying to claim greece as having to do with their own DNA. Since I am certainly not in any of the groups involved myself I am more objective, and only care about it due to general interest in history.
Here is the aaronic jewish dna in greece. Look at map.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HG_J1_(ADN-Y).PNG
Doesn't come from anywhere but jews.
Einstein was the e1b as well.
When you take out the euro dna picked up from their local position, jews are about 50/50 for aaronic and samaritan DNA.
So to see what the ancient e1b is you take out the same amount as the aaronic y-dna first. WHOOPS! It doesn't exist anywhere but south austria and a couple other spots once you do. Math, how does it work? Well we don't expect it to because it came along with G and G basrely exists any more either.
So yes all or anyway the vast majority of that greek e1b comes from jews, not from the VERY few neolithic farmers who made it all the way into modern times with no mixing. And even then, it has the same origin. It's levant/natufian/samaritan DNA. It's semitic, in fact that's the only thing semitic about jews, where they get any semitic looks (for the ones that have it).
So basically it comes down to a lot of people trying to claim greece as having to do with their own DNA. Since I am certainly not in any of the groups involved myself I am more objective, and only care about it due to general interest in history.
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