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@iapetoc:
Isn't it far more plausible that an Italic loan yielded Etruscan "Thewru", rather than Greek "Therion"?
I mean, cognates of this word are attested in many branches of Indo-European, all with the same meaning of "bull":
Latin "Taurus"
Oscan - "Taurom"
Greek "Tauros"
Gaulish "Tarvos"
Lithuanian "Tauras"
Lusitanian "Taurom"
I mean, I agree that the similarity with the aspiration in Greek definitely exists, but still. I don't quite see how "Therion" would yield "Thewru". That doesn't explain where the "W" comes from. It's more likely that a "U" would yield "W".
I mean, I agree that the base word probably wasn't Gaulish (or generally Celtic - since the Gauls arrived in Italy centuries after the Etruscans), since the -ur- to -ru- change is something found in all Celtic languages. But I think that an Italic or otherwise IE etymology (notice how the Lusitanian and Lithuanian words aren't all that different!) is viable, possibly via some intermediate stage of "Tavru-" or "Tawru-". Also, the Etruscans were known to aspirate other loanwords.
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Ok, I was not aware of Japanese going through two periods of hybridization. Thank you.Originally Posted by Maciamo
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I don't know,
But Tayros Tauros Torro etc could be before Greeks, it is wide spread in Mediterrenean.
But Θηρα Θηριον is another word,
A Tauros can be a Therion, but not all Therion are tauros.
now about inspiration Th->t they are both Dental but s in end?
it could all Tavros or Tarvos, but Thewru does not have s so the vowel e instead of a sends to Therion,
yes Etruscans could use t instead of Th, or opposite,
the e not a and the end u or o instead,
it is the vowels that leads me to Therion not Th or T,
the only that could help us is the tone,
like where the mark ' is
Ta ('a)vros Theri ('i)on
so if it is Thewru ('u) sounds vowel and strong sound like Therion
if it is The ('e)wru then probably comes from Tavros
remember that same is with spain,
in far ancient Greek was Esperia, (end of the world, or sunset)
later r->n (-ria and -nia are land ending, toponyms)
by using -nia in Esp'eria becomes Isp'ania (isotones and same time long, both e are short, so a is longer than e, so use i that is shorter than e)
maybe the mark ' could help us both, it is e so surely is not ~
it could be an under βαρεια (vareia) the heavy last vowel (' is down word)
for me as I try to read it sound more isotone with Therio than with Tavros,
about IE origin of Tavros or Bull , i don't know,
maybe both are IE, but maybe one is not,
Tavros was used by Cretans (ταυροκαθαψεια)
while bull (βολινθος - βολος) by mainland Greeks,
both words Bull and Tavros are common in IE languages,
But exept Lithuania is more spread in Mediterrenean the Tavros
while central and north europe uses bull, Vik etc.
as i read i put (') in last u.
so simmilarity of Th and e and u->o drives me to Therio, perhaps you are right and maybe I have to apologise if (') is in e
u <-> o is known Greek Nikola (o)s Latin Nikola (u) s etc
Romus Ρωμος,
Julius Ιουλιος
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Isn't it better to not mix albanian ( a middle ages language) with the other ancient languages. I feel it would be better if we used the thraco-illyric language instead of albanian
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"Ther" in Albanian means "cut down". I've seen an etruscan picture which showed a butcher with a knife in his hand and some meat on the table. There was an inscription below the picture "Θar kaun". In Albanian "ther kaun" means "to cut down the bull".
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Not to forget that the "official" Etruscan vocabolary is based on Rough Translations. It's a fact that should be considered.
On the other hand, the author of the site www.etruscan-translation.com as I see, pretends for a real translation.
Inspite of some few mistakes, his translation fits with Albanian. That's a fact that should be seriously considered too.
A few days ago iapetoc said there are many words of the text, similar with the words of Homeric language. He can help us a lot on identifying these words.
Last edited by Hal Fao; 25-04-11 at 12:03.
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Sorry, nope. No. Linguistics just do not work that way. There's absolutely nothing Etruscan about the Albanian language.
For one, Albanian numerals are readily visible to be Indo-European in origin (in accordance with Albanian sound laws), whereas Etruscan numerals were clearly non-IE.
One - Një (Lat. unus, Greek èna)
Two - Dy (Lat. duo, Greek dúo)
Three - Tre (Lat. tres)
Four - Katër (Lat. quattuor)
Five - Pesë (Greek pente)
Six - Gjashtë
Seven - Shtatë (Lat. septem)
Eight - Tetë
Nine - Nëntë (Lat. novem, Greek ennéa)
Ten - Dhjetë (Lat. decem, Greek deka)
This "Real Etruscan" is nothing but a fabrication.
Furthermore, as mentioned, Etruscan doesn't distinguish between voiced/unvoiced stop consonants, whereas Albanian does. How are these conditioned? If you cannot answer that, and cannot demonstrate how, with regularity, Albanian words are yielded from Etruscan ones, your similarity is most probably just coincidential.
EDIT: Here I explained the criticality of sound laws.
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this link might be of some use
http://www.seansgallery.com/pages/h_alphabets.htm
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Fascinating site, thanks for sharing that.
I must add though, with the Iberian scripts, things are a tad more complicated. There exist several varieties of the Northeastern scripts, specifically a "simple" variant that doesn't distinguish between voiced and unvoiced stop consonants, and "advanced" variants that verymuch distinguish so - but only between "G/K" and "D/T", because neither the Iberian nor the Celtiberian language had the phoneme "P" in their language.
With the Southeastern Iberian Scripts, letters are very close to the Tartessian script (which is even older, and from which the Iberians derived their writing systems), but like the northern scripts, it is a full Semi-syllabary, whereas the Tartessian script was more like a redundant alphabet (coincidentially similar to the Old Persian Cuneiform, which is also on that website).
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I think Albanians pass really well as italians (they are very similar to us).
I've been observing the Albanian immigrants in Italy and many of them have convex noses, they have a mediterranean appearence, so they could be descendent of pelasgians too.
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Well I don't feel or keep bad or good feelings Julia, for anyone, especially for 'bad' manufacturers,
now about Spongetaro Video,
yes for me Ancient Illyrian was Pelasgic+Celtic language,
I said that in many of my posts.
about Hal Fao and Video about ring, there is a video from some Daci with another translation more clear by Daco-Thracian,
Polisteneas gave me this ring etc...
there also a Greek translation by a minus alphabet like Κυμη Kyme alphabet there are many, that say
Polis te neas (cities and ships .. obey this ring....)
until today there is no clear scientific explanation, Fabricated propaganda by some is not what gives clear evidences,
Ancient Greek is the most rich language,
Ζολωτας, a Huge academic once gave a speech in England for Economy studies, from 40 000 words the 36 000 were in Greek language, just to make impression or just to prove something, I don't know,
There is another video that Albanian are Homeric, there was a Video that Ancient Egyptian were Albanian,
DE FACTO all these video are true, but on the other side,
there are Homeric in Albanian language,
there are Egyptian in Albanian language,
there are Celtic in ancient Illyrian,
There are romanian/Daci in ALbanian Language,
the most clear view is not to say that i have 400 words the same, so I am Etruscan, or I have 600 IE celtic roots so I am Irish,
by comparing IE words you only prove that you are an IE,
again my answer, and something that no one seen
clan = child = oglan in Turkish
Albanians and etruscans came from the same ancient nation of Pelasgians,
want Proves ??
Herodotus records the legend that the Etruscans (known to the Greeks as Tyrrhenians) came from Lydia in Asia Minor, modern Turkey[8] :
A larger Aegean family including Eteocretan (Minoan language) and Eteocypriot has been proposed by G.M. Facchetti, referring to some possible similarities between the Etruscan language and ancient Lemnian (an Aegean language widely thought to be related to Etruscan), and some Ancient Aegean languages: such as Minoan, Eteocretan and Philistine languages. If these languages could be shown to be related to Etruscan and Rhaetic, they would constitute a pre-Indo-European phylum stretching from the Aegean islands and Crete across mainland Greece and the Italian peninsula to the Alps. Facchetti proposes a hypothetical linguistic family derived from Minoan in two branches. From Minoan he proposes a Proto-Tyrrhenian from which would have come the Etruscan, Lemnian and Rhaetic languages. James Mellaart has proposed that this language family is related to the pre-Indo-European Anatolian languages, based upon place name analysis.[2] From another Minoan branch would have come the Eteocretan and Philistean languages.[3] However, this is by no means a common view; there are just as serious attempts to link Eteocretan and Eteocypriot with Semitic, and mainstream scholarship takes no position.
Myres JL. A history of the Pelasgian theory. Journal of Hellenic Studies 1907 169-225 s. 16 (Pelasgians and Tyrrhenians) Strabo: " And again, Anticleides says that they (the Pelasgians) were the first to settle the regions round about Lemnos and Imbros, and indeed that some of these sailed away to Italy with Tyrrhenus the son of Atys" (public domain translation by H.L. Jones at Lacus Curtius
the case of ancient Illyrians being Pelasgians, is still under discuss by Greek linguistics,
Another common is the
Complex consonant clusters
Speech featured a heavy stress on the first syllable of a word, causing syncopation by weakening of the remaining vowels, which then were not represented in writing: Alcsntre for Alexandros, Rasna for Rasena.[23] This speech habit is one explanation of the Etruscan "impossible consonant clusters." The resonants, however, may have been syllabic, accounting for some of the clusters (see below under Consonants). In other cases, the scribe sometimes inserted a vowel: Greek Herakles became Hercle by syncopation and then was expanded to Herecele. Pallottino[27] regarded this variation in vowels as "instability in the quality of vowels" and accounted for the second phase (e.g. Herecele) as "vowel harmony, i.e., of the assimilation of vowels in neighboring syllables ...."
Thessalians and ancient Aeolians were known as barbaric for that,
as an example I give the word μεσημερι mesimeri which even today in some areas is mis'mer'
or the word Μουστοκουλουρο mustokuluro -> must'kul'ro
the case of ancient Illyrians being Pelasgians, is still under discuss by Greek linguistics,
many greek linguist prove that, although i have many argue with them like Kollia, the many words of Aryan and Levantine origin leads us there, to the 1 branch, and the celtic language the other,
the main problem is that modern Albanian is satem and rough, while Pelasgian languages and west semitic where mild, mostly vowel and towards centum, even ancient IE greek where rough but the Pelasgic form.
Relation with Albanian in particular has been advanced by a number of people, notably Zacharie Mayani, as well as earlier writers such as Ascoli, 1877, E. Schneider, 1889, Thomopoulos, 1912, Buonamici, 1919
the case of introducing satem accent from Thracians or from Balto slavic is open.
now remember if I want to prove that Greeks are Irish or British or Russians it is easy,
even the opposite, Linguistics is a tool for scientists as also for stupids or propaganda,
Now the ring Hal Fao watch carefully the down,
Julia watch it to to understand what is a fabricated work.
until today there is no ISBN or a clear scientific explanation cause until yesterday i know 2 today explanations,
for some Greek ultra nationalist that was a ring like Mortred and Gandalph and froddo,
one common among Etruscans and Pelasgians is the swastika,
Gennetics
Another study showed that the areas of historical Etruscan occupation share a relatively high concentration of y-haplogroup G with Anatolians, and the people of Caucasus, where the haplogroup reaches its greatest presence, particularly amongst the Ossetians and Georgians. This evidence is not specific to any period or calendar date, and might reflect contiguous populations or significant migration far back in the Stone Age.
Another study by geneticist Alberto Piazza of the University of Turin linked the Etruscans to Turkey. The team compared DNA sequences with those from men in modern Turkey, northern Italy, the Greek island of Lemnos, the Italian islands of Sicily and Sardinia and the southern Balkans. They found that the genetic sequences of the Tuscan men varied significantly from those of men in surrounding regions in Italy, and that the men from Murlo and Volterra were the most closely related to men from Turkey. In Murlo in particular, one genetic variant is shared only by people from Turkey
Last edited by iapetoc; 26-04-11 at 19:15.
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@ iapetoc: regarding the consonant clusters in Etruscan, in my opinion, there is a number of interpretations. For one, consider that the Phoenician, Hebrew and Arabic alphabets are technically all abjads, that is, consonant alphabets, where vowels are not written. It's possible to do that in Semitic languages because the words still remain readable as the stem of the word still remains recognizable. For instance, Carthage ("Qart Hadašt") was actually written as "QRT HDŠT" in the Phoenician alphabet. It's generally impossible to do that in Indo-European languages because words become unreadible if you leave out vowels. One possibility is that it was possible to do that actually in Etruscan, and that Etruscan tended to basically "incompletely abjadize" by dropping vowels in an irregular pattern. The alternative is that Etruscan only rendered long vowels, and that for the same reason, short vowels tended to be dropped.
One key feature in Etruscan that is quite unlike Indo-European AND Semitic languages is the agglutination in grammer, because both IE and Semitic languages are fusional and not agglutinative. I still wonder if there's a relationship with any of the old near-eastern languages as a result. One big difference is that Etruscan was an accusative language (similar to IE and Semitic in that respect) and not ergative. If Etruscan was indeed some kind of creole language, though, that might explain this combination of features.
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hmmmm
I notice some connection that today also exist in Minor Asia, kept by modern Turks, and many that exist in close in Greeks mostly refugees after 1923
Wiki is suggesting a lot,
I know that Greeks create Koine ( an Hybridic accepted by most) after Attic (no Hattik)
Homer is pure IE which use Pelasgic words,
Pelasgic elements are in Hesiod,
The Attic dialect has many Pelasgic non IE,
later Koine is a try to make Greek and Greco-Pelasgic more connected,
the case of G-Ydna drives me away, probably there was a population that lived south of Hettit
I found this in wiki,
but no data to compare, only the synonym Attica (athens) with Hattico
The Hattians spoke a non-Indo-European language of uncertain affiliation called Hattic, now believed by some scholars to be related to the Northwest Caucasian language group. Many Northwest Caucasian (Adygean) family names have prefixes like "Hath" or "Hatti" and especially one of the most known Adygean tribes have the name "Hattico" (in the meaning of "HattiSon") .
some marks as words or letters we find in Greece are far older than known alphabet but no one can be sure,
the case of creole language is certain,
but with whom and by who?
the case of a population that moved from inner minor asia almost middle east to west coasts of minor asia, to dwell Greece and Illyria, and later pass to Italy? and assimilate local italian with older language??
that is normal, to me
or they create language in minor asia and kept it pure until italy???
there is also the possibility of a pre-phoenician or cyprus or cilicia or lycaonia that had abjad, and later move to more IE and became creole,
many linguists consider them Levantine towards Phoenician,
the case of Aegean-Anatolian is because there we find that culture in early times,
the possibility of Hatti-Rasians -> Hatrusians ->etruscans
(watch above)
or the posibbility of En-tursis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenoi
the exonym Tyrrhenoi sends me to Tyros in Lebanon
the Tursis leads me to cillikia the city of Taursus
could they be a pre-Turkish civilization? or the Byzantines name the Turks after Taursus, or just a coincidence?
I know about abjad, Archaiology proves that phoenician alphabet is older than Greek,
and the origin of Latin alphabet is Kyme Κυμη island,
but makes me wonder if Greeks add marks-letters or the phoenician minus them.
probably Etruscan Pelasgians Anatolians and around cyprus there was 1 language population,
or people neighboring in order to trade create a language that mixed
A) either the mix was done by Hettit and Hattians before Etruscans move west,
B) either the mix was done by Minoans in the cities tel-kabri and Alalakh and Cyprus probably as also the city of Tyros which Alexander wait to join him, recognizing him as an apogonus of Pelasgians (Tyros did not belong to the same group as Sidon and Byblos, Greeks had many cities with simmilar name)
C) either there were 3 mix
1 in Italy
2nd in Aegean
3rd in Illyria
the case that Minoans were not Pelasgic but Lydian, and Pelasgians were Levantines?
but that it is proven that they are connected.
many questions,
PS
that is out of thread
now about the case of Abjad
in Thessaly and in Epirus is clear and obvious, not that much in other areas,
people when speaking they erase or no pronounce vowels,
in 1900 that sounds make many foreign scientists to imagine that they discover a new language,
the less vowel in Greek language, especially in these areas makes it sound like Slavic speaking people than a greek,
example
κοχλιαριοθηκη ko-chli-a-ri-o-the-ke
in Serres becomes khliarothek k_-chli-a-r_-o-the-k_ minus 3 vowel
they use only the vowels they need, and sometimes you wonder what they say, cause each village uses its own
example 2 (she was a pretty girl) asking me
δεν με λες, φυσικο ειναι το μαλλι σου? became
δε' μ' λες, φυσ'κο 'ν' το μαλλι σ' ? 5 vowel miising and 1 n
(i understand φoυσκωνει
φυσικο = natural φoυσκωνει = pump up, extra volume)
is that an oral abjad???
so if write it down then i use a kind of abjad system?
is inside Dna to speak like that?
PS2
so in case fro thewru
could have just marks ΘWR , and we suggest it says Thewru, according other writen in same tablet, and according same marks found in other areas.
but ΘWR could be thawru thewru thawro etc?
like QRT HDST could also be Qurata Hedesta or QReT HuDSaT etc.
is the Etruscan tablets in abjad system written? cause then we all make quess,
PS3
Some science fiction searchers connect Pelasgian with Atlantis,
the Αιγιαλις Aigialis,
geologists prove that whole Greece was sea before years, later 2 land were the Greece and the Aigialis, Aigialis sunk after Thera Volcanic activity,
using the above as also the avaris and some geologigal achivements claim that Atlantis was a land that sunk and create today geological situation,
it is a scenario, although in that case we hunt witches or aliens,
the case of Pelasgian culture is enough old (starts from 5000 BC and is in its high before 3000) surely leave us a ray of light to susspect that pelasgians could be before many middle east culture,
and many anatolian languages are Aegean and not middle eastern.
but that is still under suspicion and not wide proved, reaching science fiction, although there is a possibility, if some new archaiological evidence prove so,
there is εvidence of that in some videos,
1) Phaistos disk have 17 symbols same with 24 Phoenician,
Phaistos is far ancient that phoenicians,
2) Phoenicians if they were so strong at 1150 , then why Greeks left 10 years leaving behind no man, no ship? who will protect their families,
3 if Priamus hire so many, then why he did not hire Phoenician mercenairies,
Arthur Evans in Scripta Minoa 1909 is clear that phoenicians took Alphabet from Cretans,
who were the south and second capital of Pelasgians ατ 1300 BC,
in that case drives us today some marks as Y X D in an island that are same time with Egyptian protosinaitic,
the above theory is not yet rejected, or accepted, simply misses evidence, as also evidence are missing to reject it, only a tomp of king, is older than Pelasgic form alphabet,
the case that Greeks added vowels in Phoenician alphabet could be opposite,
the phoenician minus vowels cause they only use 4 strong haevy and long the μακρα α αι (εε) ω η
not even ου
PS 4
about abjad and vowel languages,
try comparing north languages with african, or arabian,
north languages use a less vowel, cause they open mouth a lot, and warm air is leaving body,
but in Africa, vowels are many cause speaking with vowels cools mouth and body
Last edited by iapetoc; 28-04-11 at 08:13.
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Iapetoc,
generally, I wouldn't say that Etruscan wasn't a an abjad. In particular because it was developed from the Greek alphabet (an early - western/euboan - form of it, anyways) not the Phoenician one. However, it's clear that Etruscan dropped vowels. In regard for that Greek sample you gave, it's contracted, that's not an "oral abjad", but I get what you're saying. It's very possible that Etruscan worked a similar way. There is also the fact that in ancient time, there was no such thing as spelling conventions, and people would write phonetically. If vowels were pronounced very short, it'd make sense to dump them in text.
Regarding Phoenician, I'm not an expert on the Semitic languages, but generally:
- Phoenician, like Hebrew, is a Northwest-Semitic language and was probably even mutually intelligible with it.
- Many Phoenician words are actually spelled identifical to Hebrew (at least within the abjad system)
- There are Punic texts from the Roman period (the Punic language survived the destruction of Carthage by many centuries) which are written in Latin script.
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what do you believe?
could etruscan be Hath-Raetians? Hattians?
or could they could be En-Tursis
the most clear is what zanipolo gave, the Strabo connection of Pelasgians with Etruscans,
there is a book of Jehunda,
that connects Ugarit, Hebrew, and ancient Greek-Pelasgic, he claims the area of Syria especially the sea coastal Syria,
although that reaches science fiction the connection is enough in Linguistic forms,
i don't surely know Taranis, i added 2 more ps in my previous post,
the Evans Theory, and how climate affects language,
I am afraid of mistakes, cause i have many, I connect Etruscans with J2 and in wiki I read about G.
Pelasgian from early Mycenean Greeks where not considered as their own tribe, as pure IE greeks
later Before Hesiod and same time with Temenus return started to communicate and become 1 nation
Etruscan's although they are early connected with minor Asia and Aegean, later they considered 1 of the Roman empire founders,
many Roman's used their influence to them in order to gain power.
the Italization of Etruscan is certain especially when they allied With Carchedona against Magna Crecia.
the case of Etruscan being Illyrians or opposite is out of Discussion,
the Illyrians accepted Italian form of grammar and speech when they adopted Messapic,
Albanian origin is still under discuss and search by many,
the Illyrian that past in Albanian Language are proves of connection, but as History have shown us is from sharing a common ancestor.
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Regarding the name, I have honestly no idea - it's very difficult to estimate what the original form there is, also consider that the Romans used the term "Tusci". I also speculated in the past if the "Turiša" mentioned by the Egyptians amongst the Sea Peoples could be the same as the "Tyrsenoi" (ie, Etruscans).
I also agree that a relationship of Etruscan with Illyrian and/or Albanian is out of the question.
Regarding Etruscan DNA (which is technically off-topic in this thread), given how they came from Anatolia, they might be both J2 and G...
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Only one element in Etruria came from Anatolia.Regarding the name, I have honestly no idea - it's very difficult to estimate what the original form there is, also consider that the Romans used the term "Tusci". I also speculated in the past if the "Turiša" mentioned by the Egyptians amongst the Sea Peoples could be the same as the "Tyrsenoi" (ie, Etruscans).
I also agree that a relationship of Etruscan with Illyrian and/or Albanian is out of the question.
Regarding Etruscan DNA (which is technically off-topic in this thread
Recent genetic studies show more West Asian ancestry in southern Italy than in Tuscany.
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In Albanian we can find the etymology of a large number of words of the nowadays European languages or of the ancient Greek and Latin.
If you look for the etymology of the word "create", you'll find that it is the Latin "crescere" = "arise, grow”
Frankly, I fail to understand how the Latin word “crescere” which means "arise, grow” gives to the word “create” the meaning “to make sth new or original”, or "to cause sth to exist". I think that the true etymology of the word "create” is the Gheg Albanian word “kre” (definite “krea”) which means “head", “the upper part of sth”.
Even it is quite understandable that it’s just the head which “produces sth new or original”.
In Gheg Albanian:
“kret” (in some areas: “kryt”) = “head”;
“kre/kry” = “head; the upper part of sth”.
“Krei/kryj” = “to perform, to carry out, to complete” (to do smth consciously);
“kreoi/krioj” = “to create”;
“kreies/kries” = “creature”;
“kreit/krejt” = “quite” (from the beginning to the end);
“krime/kryme” = “done” (consciously done).
Etc.
In standard Albanian:
“kryet” = “head”;
“krye” = see “kre/kry”.
“kryei/kryej” = “to perform, to carry out, to complete” (consciously);
“krioi/krijoj” = “to create”;
“kries/krijesë” = “creature”;
“kreit/krejt” = “quite” (from the beginning to the end).
Etc.
There are numerous words in the nowadays European languages as well as in ancient Greek and Latin which contain the wordroot “kre/kry” (cre/cri) = “head”, “the upper part of sth”:
In Italian: creare, credere, crescere, crimine, cresta, cretinata, cretineria, critica, criterio etc., etc..
In Greek: κριτής = judge (n); κριμα = pity; κριτική=criticism; κρίσιμος = critical; κριτήριο = test; κρίνο = judge (v); υποκριτής = hypocrite, etc., etc..
Even the Greek island Creta means “head” (to my opinion), since it was the head of the pelasgian civilization in second millennia BC.
In Albanian, the suffix –oi/oj turns the nouns into verbs, eg:
Punë (work, n.) = punoj (work, v.)
Dhunë (violence) = dhunoj (violate)
Këngë (song) = këndoj (sing)
Krye/krie (head) = krioj/krijoj (create), etc.
Ps: Latin has borrowed from Etruscan a very large number of words.
If the Etruscan scholars had known very well Albanian, Etruscan would have been deciphered a long time ago.
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Hal Fao,In Albanian we can find the etymology of a large number of words of the nowadays European languages or of the ancient Greek and Latin.
If you look for the etymology of the word "create", you'll find that it is the Latin "crescere" = "arise, grow”
Frankly, I fail to understand how the Latin word “crescere” which means "arise, grow” gives to the word “create” the meaning “to make sth new or original”, or "to cause sth to exist". I think that the true etymology of the word "create” is the Gheg Albanian word “kre” (definite “krea”) which means “head", “the upper part of sth”.
no offense to you, but it is evident that you have a very limited understanding of linguistics. First off, "Create" does not come from "crescere" but "creare".
If you look at the conjunctive present form:
- cream
- creas
- creat
- creamus
- creatis
- creant
... it's clear how the word is related with "Create".
Second, you are completely unaware of sound laws and other fundamental concepts. Finally, you are also unaware of the grammatical structure of Etruscan, which is agglutinative, which is verymuch unlike Indo-European languages, including Albanian. In particular, you cannot simply compare random modern Albanian words without giving a thought to the Albanian language evolved in the meantime.
Achievements:
Cool boy!
It's true that "create" comes from "creare" which relates to "crescere". Look at www.etymonline.com
create
late 14c., from L. creatus, pp. of creare "to make, bring forth, produce, beget," related to crescere "arise, grow" (see crescent). Related: Created; creating.
There is no other word in Latin to show us the etymology of "create" (or "creare", it's the same); "crescere" is so to say, the best which Latin offers as an etymological source to "creare". It lacks the wordroot "crea" (the head) which does still survive in Albanian.
I can not take seriously what etruscan scholars say about, until it is going on to be undeciphered. All their analyses are but nothing.
Achievements:
Nope Hal fao
Kre in albanian is ancient,
the IE Greeks used the word Κεφαλη, Μakedonians used Kevali, slavic glavata
Kre is connected with Cadmeians Kara Καρα
Kara is the bone of the head,
Later in koine became Κρανιο Kranio Craniumor Kranium
in Sophocles Antigone the author try to put as many pelasgian-Cadmeian as he can
so Antigone Holding her sister's headbone (skull) say
O καρα αναδερφος, Ισμηνης καρα
Oh my sister's kara, Ismene's kara,
in modern Turkish is Kafa
either of Pelasgian,
the small kara is karanion -a = kranion ->cranium in latin
Crete has same meaning Greece
C is Γ ιν Γρεεκ creta -> Γρετ-α
Greek = Γρεκ-ος
if i go back to Doric and Ionian Γρουσσα = Greek language in Doric
Γλωττα = Greek language in Ionic
Γρετα = Greek language
Γρικα = greek language in Aeolic
and there is no connection with name Gretta,
the albanian kre is the Greek kara the turkish kafa,
the word create in Greek is
δημιουργω Di+ergo = Divine work, Zeus work,
also
ποιω poio pio create - make English poet
εργω = Ι work modern ergazomai (voice change) english work
τεχνω = Ι make Art, I build, tecton = builder but techne = Art
there is a Ancient word κουρα, cura - kura
in modern means haircut, or tired Κουραση
but in ancient meant work - produce
Eπικουρος Epikouros means either top worker, or in work project specialist, either dedicated to work
the Cretans name their sheeps Κουρα-δι, production
in modern we find
latin imported fait as φτιαχνω ftiachno
german imported mastor mastorevo
kre and kara are also connected with Κριος, the male sheep, that uses Kre-kara as a weapon,
The connections of Kre (head) with Cre-ate is just off
Kre comes from same root with Kara-Kranio and Crius, Kroios Titan etc,
the word Pune (work) is Hesiod's time very ancient,
Ponos in modern Greek is the ache,
But Πονηρος ponos+αιρω, is the one that does want to work, and think methods to avoid,
Ponos is effort, the ache of hard working, the 'Heavy work' effort and results,
After roman times change to ache,
the original word for ache is algos, algos today is only a scientific word
Ancient Greeks used the word Εκ-πονησις means the result of a hard-work
Greek use to say Ο πονος τε και ο καματος της ημερας,
the pain of hard work, and the get tired, exhausted of a day,
achthos αχθος = to carry heavy weights became ache in English
ponos Πονος = hard and exhausted work became ache in Greek and pain in English
Algos Αλγος = body pain, replaced by Πονος
Κουρα = produce-work became exhausted and tired κουρασις
κανω an alternate word for create, also means exhausted καμνω
similar engilsh can
εργω I work, δημιουργω = create
Ποιω i create ποιητης poet in English
the connection of kαρα(kara) - kre
with Κουρα(kura) - kreoi
and Κορη(kore) - Krye
hmmm
does not fit to me
simply you proving connection of Albanian with rest IE and especially Greek to me,
plz the Κρι-της is another them word-root than καρ-α, than κουρα,
The Krye (I see) in albanian maybe is coonected with ancient Greek κορη,
οπη is the hole
but also Kore
κορη οφθαλμου not οπη οφθαλμου is the hole of the eye
οφθαλμος = champer with a hole οπη+θαλαμος or θολος
the hole is κορη female, in English became whore
κορη is also the entrance of a woman genetical organs,
κορη In modern is daughter, but the exact ancient is Θυγατηρ-τρος Thugater
female κορη means the entrance to an empty area
while male Koresmos means filling up the emptyness
Kourhtes κουρητες comes from χορος (dancers)
Χορευτες in modern Κουρητες in ancient
though and because of Kore we see,
The IE have branches and subcranches
The European brances are
1 the Latin (italy-spain-france etc)
2 the Germanic (Germany- Holland etc)
3 The BaltoSlavic (Baltic and south slavic)
4 Celtic although almost exting some Irish or others still claim that title
5 the Greek
6 Albanian,
the Non IE European languages
are Basques Mayars and Finnish I think,
I maybe amwrongin someor forgot
Albanian belongs to IE, but surely is not the mother language, or the starting point of IE language,
Albania is connected with other language due to IE and Pelasgic, and not because is the mother of IE languages
Because etruscans or latin are missing the Kre or crea
does not mean that latin are Albanian origin,
cause similarity of Kre with cre could be just a co-incedence
and kre could be imported by Greek kara or later by latin crani
i still don't understand what you want to prove,
that Albanians are Etruscans, that Albanians are Italians? or the opposite,
how about find Etruscan origin in that
Pirja e Duhanit nga grate shtatzena femijien
Duhani demton rende shendetin
Shitet vetem per te rritur
sound Etruscan to you?
ok maybe i went far enough i don't want to insult, but plz don't insult our minds.
who knows maybe word Κρυο kruo kryo (cold, sometimes killing cold) is connected with kore kura and kara
Last edited by iapetoc; 05-05-11 at 11:50.
Achievements:
create is "kurti" in modern Lithuanian, the connection must be Proto Indoeurepean then
Achievements:
Awards:
You are wrong. As I said, "Create" is derived from "Creare", not "Crescrere".
There is also probable cognates with Latin "Creare" in the Celtic languages:
- Old Irish "Cruth" ("form, shape")
- Modern Irish "Cruthú"
- Breton "Krouin"
- Welsh "Creu"
Again, no offense, but that is just about as wrong as you can be. For one, Etruscan isn't "undeciphered", it has been deciphered for a long time, in particular there are bilingual inscriptions (Phoenician-Etruscan) which show us clearly that Etruscan was a non-IE language. your ad-hoc declaration that scholars cannot be taken seriously proves that you have no idea about linguistics. You only want Albanian to be related with Etruscan - though the reasons for that elude me.I can not take seriously what etruscan scholars say about, until it is going on to be undeciphered. All their analyses are but nothing.
I agree that is far more probable.
Achievements:
Would you mention please the name of an Etruscan researcher who has made an Etruscan translation (of course that does not begin with the note "Rough translation" and does not end with the phrase "Etruscan language is a mystery ...".
“Rough translation” means a “rough decipherment” too, you know.
It is precisely the “rough decipherment” which leads Etruscan just to the … mystery.
You have to understand what it means to analyze a "Rough translation".
(If there is no real translation, what’s the use of analyzing "the mystery").
Regarding to the correlation of the Gheg Albanian word “kre/krea” (crea) = “head” and Latin “creare” (or English “create”):
In modern Sanskrit too: “Shirah” = “head”; “srijati” = “create”; “kri” = “to do”.
Nevertheless, the problem does not lay simply in the etymology of a word.
Let's take for example the Sanskrit word "Sakti" = "power","potency" (or "shaktih" = "power", "Might").
This word is found in almost all European languages, but its identification would be almost impossible without the help of Albanian.
Here's how in Albanian:
sakte = exactly
e sakte (adj.) = 1 - without drawbacks (physical or mental), 2 -precise (fem.)
i sakte (adj.) = 1 - without drawbacks (physical or mental), 2 -precise (masc.)
Many of the Albanian adverbs become adjectives if we use before them the article e for the fem. or i for the masc. (singular).
In nowadays European languages this word is found in format "esatto", "exact", etc..
As you can see:
e + sakte (fem.) = e-satto, or:
i + sakte (masc.) = exact.
Albanian language does widely use the short forms of the personal pronouns like:i, e, u, iu, mi, me, ma, mu, ta, te, tu, na, ni, or anyother, which are used as word-formative elements in almost all the nowadays European languages, eg:
i di (understand, be enlightened on) i + di = i-dea;
i ditur (versed, enlightened, adj) i + ditur = i-deator-e;
e dukur (handsome, conspicuous) e + dukur = e-ducar-e;
i dukshëm (conspicuous, visible) i-dukshëm = e-ducation;
e kamuna/komuna (the wealth) e + komuna = e-conom-ia;
i kamuni/komuni (the rich, masc.) i + kamuni = e-conomy;
me anger/hangër (to eat) me + anger =m-angiar-e;
e tëra/tera (the all) e + tera = e-tere;
të tërë/ton (all, all of) të + ton = tu-tto;
i gjorë / i ghiorə/ (miserable) i + gjore = i-gnor-are;
i lus (implore to/pray to) i + lus = i-lluso;
i lumnuer (happy/that shines with joy) i + lumnuer = i-lluminare;
Etc.. etc.., (I can draw an endless list of words ).
Albanian word "di" analogous to which, if I 'm not wrong , is used only in Romanian “ştiu” and in Estonian "tea”, is the root of the latin words "Dio", "idea"; of the Albanian words "dite = day ", "diell = sun", "dia/dija = the insight", etc.
Via Albanian we can “dismantle” numerous words of the ancient Greek and Latin.
That’s why I insist that Etruscan scholars have to learn Albanian prior than dechipering Etruscan.
I wonder when I hear linguists say that there is no relationship between Albanian and Etruscan, although they do not know a word of Albanian.
PS: Sincerely. I do not consider "more valuable" a language where there survive more ancient words than another one which has less ancient words, except for study purposes. What's the use of quarrelling about?
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