Etruscans=Illyrians=Pelasgi //// tuscans=albanians ?????

[Taranis]

I (unfortunately so) can't go into detail about everything, but there's a few issues I'd like to comment on:

"Heram-ash" - it obviously looks very suggestive to assume that it's part of the name (Hermes <-> Heramash), BUT the particle "-ash" (or "-ashi") is definitely not part of the name, since it's well-known to be a plural noun particle in Etruscan. For example Clan "son" -> Clen-ashi "sons". Also, if you look further down in the inscription, the word is also attested in the form "Heram-we".

"Mekh" definitely isn't a name, but instead really means "people" (though, alternatively, the interpretation perhaps as "citizens" would also be viable). It's often found in combination with "Rasna" (the Etruscan name for themselves - so, possibly "Etruscan people" or "Etruscan citizens").

"Thuta" - I agree that this is almost certainly an Indo-European loan (attested in Baltic, Celtic and Germanic with the meaning "tribe" or "people"). As stated before, the Etruscans, when borrowing IE words these apparently frequently are aspirated (compare "Thewru" - bull).

 

[LeBrok]

After a beautiful lecture of Taranis I would shut up and learn something. But no, the rest of linguists are rushing in. Now we know that Etruscans are definitely from Anatolia, and on top of it there were no Etruscans, they were Serbs with Latin influence, lol. In this light of understanding, Etruscan coming from Albanian is quite plausible too. Etruscans are free for all..., adopt a tribe guys, they feel so lonly...
Who the hell stole the Occam's razor?!

 

[how yes no 2]

After a beautiful lecture of Taranis I would shut up and learn something.

judging by your posts on this and similar topics perhaps you should shut up...
if you are not able to understand it, ask Taranis to compare for you the methodology used in my post with the one in starting post...

But no, the rest of linguists are rushing in. Now we know that Etruscans are definitely from Anatolia, and on top of it there were no Etruscans, they were Serbs with Latin influence, lol. In this light of understanding, Etruscan coming from Albanian is quite plausible too. Etruscans are free for all..., adopt a tribe guys, they feel so lonly...
Who the hell stole the Occam's razor?!

note that I do not claim that Etruscans were proto-Serbs... in fact, genetically they were clearly very different.... as Serbs are dominantly I2a2 with strong E-V13 and R1a
and in area of influence of Etruscans we find: R1a matching in shape settlements of Etruscans, J2, G2. R1b and I2a1 of Sardinians.. in spreads of the place of their supposed origin we find holes in both R1a and J2 matching exactly Lydia - the area from which they have departed to Italy.... G2 is also wide spread in that area which indicates it may have come with Etruscans as well... R1b is likely due to previous people - e.g. Ligurians, and due to later settlement of Germanic people...

I do not claim that they speak Serbian
but I am sure that there was some relation that gave certain linguistic relationships
and that some or many words that were used by Etruscans is possible to find in Slavic languages, in Italic languages, in Anatolia languages, in Greek and Albanian...

as for grammar, there is noticeable similarity in grammar of latin and Slavic languages that can perhaps be attributed to the influence of etruscan people who accepted latin language.... so I find it quite plausible that grammar of etruscan language had big similarity with Slavic..

while "albanian scientist" from the start of the thread was translating untranslated text and was completely ignoring grammar and linguistic rules, I was looking at possible matches with sentence whose translation is known and have paid special attention (as much as I am able to) to grammar rules...

let me explain the methodology of the albanian scientist from the start of the thread:
imagine that english is extinct language...and we want to decipher the following sentence:

" I have been amazed how dumb some boys are"

now, since I don't know the meaning I can try to understand it with some existing language e.g. my own language.. so, let me try the approach of "albanian scientist" from start of text...

let me see

"I have been amazed how dumb some boys are" (ancient english whose meaning we do not know)
"Ja keva žena Amazonka koja dajem samo vojarima (vojnicima)" (language in which I read it)
" I mum woman Amazonian who gives only to soldiers"" (translation to modern english)

that is approach of "Albanian scientist" from start of thread...

what I did was completely different - I was looking in existing translation via 3rd language (Phoenician) and than have interpreted words with some words existing in Italic and Serbian/Slavic.... Italic as Etruscans merged in with Italic people and thus must have shared part of the vocabulary, Slavic because from what I see Etruscans had strong or dominant R1a haplogroup....(I think they also brought some J2 and G2) and we know that today R1a is dominant in Slavic people... this gave idea that some Slavic words may be used to recognize Etruscan words...so, my methodolgy would be something like this:

"I have been amazed how dumb some boys are" (original in ancient english)
"I am amazing. some boys are dumb" (3 rd language)
"I have been amazed how dumb some boys are" (my reconstruction based on matching the meaning with known 3rd language interpretation)

my translation is in accordance with meaning obtained from Phoenician translation and in fact in my opinion does improve considerably the readability of that translation....

I do not claim I got it all right, but I am sure it is much much more systematic approach than the one of the albanian scientist from start of the thread...

"Heram-ash" - it obviously looks very suggestive to assume that it's part of the name (Hermes <-> Heramash), BUT the particle "-ash" (or "-ashi") is definitely not part of the name, since it's well-known to be a plural noun particle in Etruscan. For example Clan "son" -> Clen-ashi "sons". Also, if you look further down in the inscription, the word is also attested in the form "Heram-we".

it could have been last name in meaning "son of"...

even though the way last names were made in ancient times and now would typically not be the same even in identical language group... I can find link to Serb last names...

e.g. although most Serb last names end in -ić, -ović
that is demunitive and thus has meaning "son of"
there are last names in Serbs ending with -ash
e.g. Plećaš, Vraneš, Dragaš, Kostreš...and so on.... ('š' is proniunced as 'sh')

while possesive adjective/ determiner would still be added in same way...

btw. I would point out that Etruscans identified themselves as Rasenna Raśna (pronounced Rashna) while medieval Serbs used alternative tribal name Rašani (pronounced Rashani)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rascia

note that Etruscans arrive from Lydia whose principal town is Sardis...
from text about Tyrrhenians:

Later, in the 6th to 5th centuries BC, the name referred specifically to the Etruscans, for whom the Tyrrhenian Sea is named, according to Strabo.[4] In Pindar,[5] the Tyrsanoi appear grouped with the Carthaginians as a threat to Magna Graecia:

"Spard" or "Sard", another name closely connected to the name Tyrrhenian, was the capital city of the land of Lydia, the original home of the Tyrrhenians; it was referred to by the Greeks as "Sardis". The name preserved by Greek and Egyptian renderings is "Sard," for the Greeks call it "Sardis" and the name appears in the Egyptian inscriptions as "Srdn."[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenians

what I did notice while matching the words from the sentence above is that most of matches were in fact related to Serbian only while only some were related to Slavic languages in general.....which may indicate either local Balkan influence on language of Serbs or some level of ancient relationship between proto-Serbs and Etruscans...

I think that a possible link between Etruscans and modern Serb is either via Serians or via place of origin of Balkan Serbs who in my opinion origin from European branch of I2 Serians

note that according to the book of Byzantine emperor Balkan Serbs come to Balkan from the land where they have also originally dwellt....in their language they call the land Boiki which based on description can only be mapped to land of Boii (Bohemia/Bavaria) ... they were called "white" there.... this may map them to Vindelici of Raetia and we do know that Raetians origin from Etruscan people...

however, I think that R1a is related to tribal name Rassena/Rašani/Russians/Thracians/Rosch
while I think that I2a is related to tribal name Serians/Cimmerians and that I2a2 were native people of Bohemia - as indicated by I2a2 having biggest variation in Serbs and south Bohemia ...local hotspot in south Bohemia seems to be in a triangle bounded by place names Srby, Srby and Sorviodurum) and has 3 times larger frequencies than in the rest of Czech lands...)... I think those people did spread along Danube as Scordisci/Serdi..

"Mekh" definitely isn't a name, but instead really means "people" (though, alternatively, the interpretation perhaps as "citizens" would also be viable). It's often found in combination with "Rasna" (the Etruscan name for themselves - so, possibly "Etruscan people" or "Etruscan citizens").

ok, it could have meant people....
but perhaps tribal name Macedonian just meant "people"... e.g to comapre with Teuton tribal name that means just "people"

again tribal name Macedonians is in some relation to tribal name of Serbs.. not just because Macedonians of today who live south of Serbs are people very related to Serbs....

legendary queen of Sheba was known as Makeda in her south countries, and Balkis in Arab tradition... (that is striking similarity to tribal/area names Serbs, Macedonians, Balkan / Bulgars)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_Sheba

kingdom of Sheba and later Sabbeans matches branch of Serians who lived on red Sea
and I have gave many indications that Serians are ancestors of Serb and Slavic people... but also of many other peoples such as Sorani Kurds, Pasthun Sarbans....
as a indication for that I will here just repeat that manuscript of Bavarian geographer says that state of Zeruiani was so big that all Slavs come from it... for more details read my other posts e.g. this one from thread about sea peoples conquest

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26076-sea-peoples&p=371418&viewfull=1#post371418

 

[iapetoc]

After a beautiful lecture of Taranis I would shut up and learn something. But no, the rest of linguists are rushing in. Now we know that Etruscans are definitely from Anatolia, and on top of it there were no Etruscans, they were Serbs with Latin influence, lol. In this light of understanding, Etruscan coming from Albanian is quite plausible too. Etruscans are free for all..., adopt a tribe guys, they feel so lonly...
Who the hell stole the Occam's razor?!

Man plz, Don't Forget plz
By the way, the puzzle of Linguistic always is solved by simmilar meaning word roots
to solve problems of dead languages is to ressurect them by roots of words, the syllabes.
so as to have meaning in similar known languages,
I am interesting in the roots, roots prove connection,


so as you see Heram root could be also Heran Ηera and Jeram Ieron
Taranis gives much weight in aspirations, while I m interesting in roots
remember JERUSALEM in Pelasgic Greek is ΙΕΡΟ-ΓΑΛΗΝΗ Jerocelen Jeroselen (holly peace) Γ Greek is C in latin and in satem languages C pronounced as S or ts
if means the same in Hebrew, then connection is established

Uni-al could be Greek c-uni-e γυνη if it is connected also with slavic Zena then Unial could be IE but from Unial to Zena with out Γυνη is far,
the Greeks God for doctor is Asclepios but a female goddess is Ιασω jaso or Yahso (healer-saves by Healing), remember Jesus or Yehsus means also savor - Healer
so roots are key,
that is why I asked Taranis about some roots, and why if you read my post I also i agree with him in origin,

I never wanted to adopted Etruscans, or another, if you read my posts then you realize what i was saying
Etruscans where never considered Greek, by ancients and by me,

the hunt for root and the transalation i try to make was not to show you that Etruscans are Greek, But was in Attic and Ionian to show you themore Pelasgic form of Greek, for me the case is closed and sure.

ty if you read it Lebrok,

 

[Hal Fao]

Man plz, Don't Forget plz
By the way, the puzzle of Linguistic always is solved by simmilar meaning word roots
to solve problems of dead languages is to ressurect them by roots of words, the syllabes.
so as to have meaning in similar known languages,
I am interesting in the roots, roots prove connection, ...

That's true. Even all IE languages are but "dialects" of the same one.
Etruscans were no greeks, no albanians, no serbs, ... they were just Etruscans!
I think that Etruscan is an IE language and it relates to all IE languages. It seems to be more similar with Albanian, may be because to arrive in Italic peninsula they have passed through Thracia and Illyria (in a long period of time).
The text pasted below is taken from www.etruscan-translation.com

The Pyrgi Tablets
1 – I ta t'mia, i cac.
2 - Hera mas va, vatie χe u nial.
3 - As tres θemia sa meχ θu ta θe farie.
4 - I veli anas, s’al clu veni as tu ru ce mun i stas.
5 - Θuvas ta mer, e s’ca ilac.
6 - Ve t’ulerase nac.
7 - Ci avil, χur varte sia me Ital e ilacve!
8 - Al sase nac.
9 – A tra nes zila cal.
10 - S’e le Itala.
11 - Acna s’vers i tanim.
12 - Heramve avil.
13 - Eni, a ca pulumχva?
14 - Na cθe farie.
15 - Veli i unas θam, uc e cleva e ta nalm.
16 - Asan t’iu runi!
17 - As sel a ce?
18 - Vacal t’mial avil, χvala mu ce pulumχva s’nuiaφ.

In Gheg
1-I ta t’miat, I kac.
2-Hera masi vam vate e u nial.
3-As tre thermia sa me thu ta them pergjigjen.
4-I beni anash, s’atje ku veni as tu ru ke mun me i qendru.
5-Thuvash (thash) ta mar e s’ka ilac.
6-Dhe t’ulerase nac.
7-Ky udhtim, kur vate zia me Itale e ilacve.
8-…………………………
9-Midis (nder) nesh zjarr kall.
10-S’e le Italen.
11-Ika te pushoj tanim
12-Heramve vij.
13-Eni, a ka yje?
14-Na kthe pergjigje.
15-Berjen e asaj qe tham nuk e kreva e ta nalm.
16-Asaj t’iu runi.
17-Aq zell, a ke.
18-Vazhdimi udhetimit tim, varet mu ke e paniofura e yjeve.

In English
1-these mines, that's all.
2-early after arrival, he revived .
3-Neither but three granules just to say I'm responding.
4- Go aside for there where you are going to, you can not be safe.
5-I was going to take some healers (drugs), but there is not , .
6-And let him howl if.
7-This trip, when the hell in Italy there are no healers (drugs) there!
8 - ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..
9-Between (among) us there is fire.
10-I do not leave Italy.
11-I’m going to rest now.
12-Comin’ early.
13 - And, are there stars (what's the weather like there).
14-Give back response .
15 - The doing of what we said, I did not fulfill and to stop.
16 - Be cautious of it.
17-So much zeal, do you have?
18-Continuation of my trip depends on the unknowness of the stars.

A = 1- Interrogative particle, like a in Albanian, ex: A më dëgjon = do you hear me? or in Gheg: A thu? = really?
Acna = going, gone (first person, singular). In Albanian: ika = I’m going now.
Al, s’al = there. In Albanian: atie/atje. In Etruscan s’al, the consonant s’ has the same function as the nowadays Albanian se = because; for; compare with ital. se.
Anas = aside. In Albanian: anash = aside.
As = 1- neither (conj.) used like English neither….nor; 2- so much; as much as (adv). In Albanian: 1- as … as = neither … nor; 2- aq = as much as. Compare with English "as".
Asan = her. In Albanian: asaj = her.
Avil = journey (n&v). In Italian: viaggio. In Albanian vi/vij means: 1-come; 2- line. In Italian "via" means road, street or far; and "a" means in (on) or shows direction. Etruscan a+vil means in (on) the line (street).
Ca = has. In Albanian: ka = has.
Cac (i cac) = so much (adv.); that’s all. In Albanian: kaq = that’s all; In Gegean: i kaç = that’s all; In Etruscan: i cac = that’s all.
cal = insert, put in, turn on. In Albanian: kall (zjarrin) = to fire.
Ce = have (second person, singular). In Albanian: ke = have (second person, singular).
Ce = at. In Gheg Albanian: ke = at; in standard Albanian: te, tek =at.
Ci = this/that. In Albanian: ki/ky. In Italian: chi.
Cleva = performed, fulfilled (first person, singular). In Albanian: kreva = fulfilled, performed (first person, singular).
Clu = where. In Albanian: ku = where.
Cθe (na cθe) = give back (second person, singular, –in imperative). In Albanian: na kthe = give back to us. The same as in nowadays Albanian, when someone sends e letter to sb. and asks him to respond: na kthe pergjigje = give us response (although the sender is single).
E = and.
Eni = hence. In Gheg: eni = hence.
Farie = response. In Italian: (vario); varie = writings; different things.
he = and. In Albanian and in Italian: e = and.
Hera = early. In Albanian: hera = the time. It’s the etymology of "era" used in almost all European languages.
Heramve = soon, early. In Gheg: heramve.
Xur = when. In Albanian: kur = when.
Xvala = depends. In Albanian: varet = depends.
I = of. In Albanian: i.
Ilac = healer; drug. Survives in Turkish and in Albanian ilaç/hilaç.
Ilacve = of healers; of drugs (genitive case). In Albanian: e ilaçve/
e ilaçeve = of drugs.
Itale = Italy. In Gheg Albanian: Itale = Italy. In standard Albanian: Itali = Italy.
Itale is the feminine form of Ital (masc.), an adjective noun which means "vital".
It’s wordroot it- which in some other areas pronounced et (Arom.) or iet/jet (Alb.) means life. So, ita, eta, or ieta/jeta mean: the life.
Itala = the Italy. In Gheg: Itala. In standard Albanian: Italia.
Le = leave, let. In Albanian: le/lë = leave, let.
Mas = after. In Gehg: mas = after; In standard Albanian: mbas = after.
Me = in. In Gehg:m’/më = in.
Meh = to. In Gehg: me. Eg: me angër/me hangër = to eat.
Mer = takes. In Albanian: mer = takes.
Mia (t’mia) = mine (pron). In Albanian: t’mia/te mia = mines (pron.).
Mial = my.
Mu = just. In Albanian: mu = just
Mun = may, can. In Gheg Albanian: mun = may, can. In standard Albanian: mund = may, can.
Na = us. Proclitic and enclitic form of the Albanian personal pronoun (first person, plural). Eg: na kthe; kthena = give back (to us).
Nac = if, if you like. In Gheg Albanian: naç = if, if you like. In standard Albanian: ndaç = if you like.
Nalm = stop (first person, plural). In Gheg Albanian: nalm = stop (first person, plural); In standard Albanian: ndalim = stop (first person, plural).
Nes = us. In Albanian: nesh = us. Atra nes = between us.
Nial (u nial) = revived (third person, singular). In Gheg: u niall = revived (third person, singular); In standard Albanian: u ngjall = revived (third person, singular).
Nuiaf (n&v) = know. In Albanian: niof/njof/njoh = know (first person, singular); Etruscan: nuiaf = know (both v&n).
Pulumhva = stars. In Albanian "pullumba" means "doves".
Ru (tu ru) = 1- to guard; to keep (in memory). In Gheg Albanian: tu ru = to be safe, to guard, to keep (in memory).
Runi (tu runi) = to be safeguarded (second person, plural).
Sa = how (much). In Albanian: sa = how much.
Sase = quantity. In Albanian: sasi = quantity.
S = non-, un-, in- (prefix to express the opposite or the riverse of a proces); 2- don’t/does not (negative particle). Survives in Albanian s as a negative particle.
Eg: s’e le Itala = don’t leave the Italy (first person, singular).
Sel = zeal. In Albanian: zell = zeal.
Sia = 1- the crisis; 2- the mourning. In Albanian: zia = the mourning; the crisis.
snuiaf = 1- don’t know; (first person, singular); 2- unknown. In Albanian: s’niof/s’njof/s’njoh = don’t know (first person, singular).
The opposite of nuiaf.
Stas = stay; stand (second person, singular). This word does not survive in Albanian. It survives in almost all European languages.
Svers = rest (the opposite of vers = do, make). See vers.
T, t'iu, ta = short forms of pers. pron.
Tanim = now. In Albanian: tanime = now.
Θam = said (first person, plural). In Albanian: tham = said (first person, plural).
Θe = say (n&v).
Θemia = granules. In Albanian: thermia = granules.
Θu = say. See Cippus Perusinus on this blog. In Gheg Albanian: me thu = to say.
Θuvas = said (first person, singular). Dialectal Albanian: thuvash = said (first person, singular); In standard Albanian: thashe = said (first person, singular).
Tra = through. In Italian: tra = between, through.
Tres = three.
Tu = to.
U = in Albanian it's a short form of the pers. pron.
Uc = not. In Albanian: nuk = not. In Greek:
In Turkish: yok =
Ulerase = howl, roar. In Albanian: ulerase = howl, roar; Te ulerase = to howl (because of pains).
Unas (i unas) = of that one (fem.).
Va (v&n) = arrival . In Albanian: vajtje = going ; In Italian: va = go.
Vacal = progress, continuation. In Albanian: vazhdim = continuation.
Varte = arrived, turned to be (third person, singular). In Albanian: vate = arrived; turned to be (third person, singular).
Vati = went/arrived (third person, singular). In Albanian: vajti = went/arrived (third person, singular).
Ve = and.
Veli = the doing.
Veni = go/come (second person, plural). In Albanian: veni = go/come (second person, plural).
Vers = do, make; svers = do not make (the opposite of vers).
Zila = the fire; In Albanian: ziar/ziarr = fire.

 

[Taranis]

That's true. Even all IE languages are but "dialects" of the same one.
Etruscans were no greeks, no albanians, no serbs, ... they were just Etruscans!
I think that Etruscan is an IE language and it relates to all IE languages. It seems to be more similar with Albanian, may be because to arrive in Italic peninsula they have passed through Thracia and Illyria (in a long period of time).
The text pasted below is taken from www.etruscan-translation.com

The Pyrgi Tablets
1 – I ta t'mia, i cac.
2 - Hera mas va, vatie χe u nial.
3 - As tres θemia sa meχ θu ta θe farie.
4 - I veli anas, s’al clu veni as tu ru ce mun i stas.
5 - Θuvas ta mer, e s’ca ilac.
6 - Ve t’ulerase nac.
7 - Ci avil, χur varte sia me Ital e ilacve!
8 - Al sase nac.
9 – A tra nes zila cal.
10 - S’e le Itala.
11 - Acna s’vers i tanim.
12 - Heramve avil.
13 - Eni, a ca pulumχva?
14 - Na cθe farie.
15 - Veli i unas θam, uc e cleva e ta nalm.
16 - Asan t’iu runi!
17 - As sel a ce?
18 - Vacal t’mial avil, χvala mu ce pulumχva s’nuiaφ.

Without going into detail, that is nonsense, for a few simple reasons:

- First off, as mentioned, the Pyrgi tablets are a bilingual inscription, and as mentioned, one part of the inscription is in Etruscan, but the other is in Phoencian. We effortlessly read the Phoenician part of the inscription, and it's logical to assume that the Etruscan part of the inscription should have roughly the same content as the Phoenician one, even if it isn't identical word-by-word. The so-called "translation" you gave above is just gibberish that makes no real sense.

- Secondly, if you take a closer look at the Etruscan text in the Pyrgi tablets, there's dots (.) which act as word dividers. The so-called "translation" you gave from that website randomly rips apart Etruscan words and ignores these word-dividers. Especially drastically because it rips apart personal and deity names (which, as I demonstrated before, clearly appear in both texts). Occam's razor suggests that it's far, far more likely that "Astres" is the goddess Astarte than "neither three". Likewise, it makes no sense for "Thefariei Welianas" to be "Say response" "Of the doing aside" (in two different sentences, mind you), and it makes much more sense that this is the name "Tiberi Welian".

Consider that the translation I gave in the example above matches the Phoenician inscription pretty accurately in content. And as you can see from the grammatical structure, Etruscan is, without a doubt, a non-Indo-European language.

 

[how yes no 2]

Now we know that Etruscans are definitely from Anatolia, and on top of it there were no Etruscans, they were Serbs with Latin influence, lol.!

you should not brag with your ignorance....

thing that Etruscans come from Lydia in Asia minor is much much much better attested than e.g the idea that Indo-Europeans speakers came from Asia to Europe and not other way around...

The Lydians have very nearly the same customs as the Hellenes, with the exception that these last do not bring up their girls the same way. So far as we have any knowledge, the Lydians were the first to introduce the use of gold and silver coin, and the first who sold good retail. They claim also the invention of all the games which are common to them with the Hellenes. These they declare that they invented about the time when they colonized Tyrrhenia [i.e., Etruria] , an event of which they give the following account. In the days of Atys the son of Manes, there was great scarcity through the whole land of Lydia. For some time the Lydians bore the affliction patiently, but finding that it did not pass away, they set to work to devise remedies for the evil. Various expedients were discovered by various persons: dice, knuckle-bones, and ball, and all such games were invented, except checkers, the invention of which they do not claim as theirs. The plan adopted against the famine was to engage in games one day so entirely as not to feel any craving for food, and the next day to eat and abstain from games. In this way they passed eighteen years.
Still the affliction continued, and even became worse. So the king determined to divide the nation in half, and to make the two portions draw lots, the one to stay, the other to leave the land. He would continue to reign over those whose lot it should be to remain behind; the emigrants should have his son Tyrrhenus for their leader. The lot was cast, and they who had to emigrate went down to Smyrna, and built themselves ships, in which, after they had put on board all needful stores, they sailed away in search of new homes and better sustenance. After sailing past many countries, they came to Umbria, where they built cities for themselves, and fixed their residence. Their former name of Lydians they laid aside, and called themselves after the name of the king=s son, who led the colony, Tyrrhenians.

Herodotus
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/etrucans2.html

since 18 year long hunger is not so common event in history of mankind we can even date this
1159 BC: The Hekla 3 eruption triggers an 18-year period of climatic worsening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_century_BC

thus they sailed away to their new homes probably in year 1141 BC..

note that settlement from anatolia is also confirmed by genetic testing of cattle
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/274/1614/1175.long

also by DNA testing of people
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/science/03etruscan.html

regarding splitting the tribe in two with one part staying and one living, I do not know how common is that custom, but identical thing happened with movement of Serbs from land Boiki (Bohemia) to Balkan

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3al...istrando imperio&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q&f=false

Now we know that Etruscans are definitely from Anatolia, and on top of it there were no Etruscans, they were Serbs with Latin influence, lol.!

as for Serbs, I never claimed Etruscans were Serbs, since they are not the same neither genetically, nor linguistically.... but there are too many common points to be ignored

R1a match exactly the shape of Etruscans in Umbria
it also shows clear hole in Lydia in place from which they departed...
btw. similar holds for J2 more or less

there is triple sharing of tribal names with Serbs:

1) Etruscans identified themselves as Rasenna Raśna (pronounced Rashna) while medieval Serbs used alternative tribal name Rašani (pronounced Rashani)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rascia

2) Etruscans were by Greeks called Tyrrhenian, and in same Tyrrhenian was used related to name Sardis/Spard/Sard

Later, in the 6th to 5th centuries BC, the name referred specifically to the Etruscans, for whom the Tyrrhenian Sea is named, according to Strabo.[4] In Pindar,[5] the Tyrsanoi appear grouped with the Carthaginians as a threat to Magna Graecia:

"Spard" or "Sard", another name closely connected to the name Tyrrhenian, was the capital city of the land of Lydia, the original home of the Tyrrhenians; it was referred to by the Greeks as "Sardis". The name preserved by Greek and Egyptian renderings is "Sard," for the Greeks call it "Sardis" and the name appears in the Egyptian inscriptions as "Srdn."[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenians

the tribal name Sard/Sparda/Saparda/Sapardu was more widely used throughout Asia
even now it is there in name of Pastun Sarbans that clearly match shape of the arc of Serian people from China to India..

The endonym Śfard (the name the Lydians called themselves) survives in bilingual and trilingual stone-carved notices of the Achaemenid Empire: the satrapy of Sparda (Old Persian), Aramaic Saparda, Babylonian Sapardu, Elamitic Išbarda.[1] These in the Greek tradition are associated with Sardis, the capital city of Gyges, constructed in the 7th century BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia

3) tribal names Serbs and Macedonians are related ... and from what Taranis has just said I can conclude that Mekh was likely yet another alternative self name of Etruscan.. my guess is that it was probably in south part of their country same as is case in Balkans with Slavic tribes who origin from Serians of Europe, and in Sheba/Sabbeans or Serians of Red sea

"Mekh" definitely isn't a name, but instead really means "people" (though, alternatively, the interpretation perhaps as "citizens" would also be viable). It's often found in combination with "Rasna" (the Etruscan name for themselves - so, possibly "Etruscan people" or "Etruscan citizens").

so, based on triple relation between tribal names, based on R1a genetics, based on custom of splitting the tribe in two halfs, it is quite plausible to expect some shared vocabulary betwen Serbs/Slavs and Etruscans...


happy?

 

[Hal Fao]

Without going into detail, that is nonsense, for a few simple reasons:
.....
- Secondly, if you take a closer look at the Etruscan text in the Pyrgi tablets, there's dots (.) which act as word dividers. The so-called "translation" you gave from that website randomly rips apart Etruscan words and ignores these word-dividers. Especially drastically because it rips apart personal and deity names (which, as I demonstrated before, clearly appear in both texts). Occam's razor suggests that it's far, far more likely that "Astres" is the goddess Astarte than "neither three". Likewise, it makes no sense for "Thefariei Welianas" to be "Say response" "Of the doing aside" (in two different sentences, mind you), and it makes much more sense that this is the name "Tiberi Welian".
Consider that the translation I gave in the example above matches the Phoenician inscription pretty accurately in content. And as you can see from the grammatical structure, Etruscan is, without a doubt, a non-Indo-European language.

You are right in that point. I saw, even there are about three cases which need to be revised. Anyway, I think it'll not change the general content of the text. There are strong indications for that, I'll tell you later (unfortunatly I'm too much busy now).
Thank you very much indeed.

 

[LeBrok]

judging by your posts on this and similar topics perhaps you should shut up...
if you are not able to understand it, ask Taranis to compare for you the methodology used in my post with the one in starting post...

Dude, I know you are a good person, but if it comes to this subject you're ....hmmm, making a leap of faith.

Taranis methodology is deep on many levels. He knows history, cultures, archeology, languages, how they evolved in time, grammar, classifications, variate of sounds, alphabets, you name it. He is a true linguist historian. Even with his knowledge he admits often being not sure, because of lack of prove, strong connections, or relying on ancient linguists to make a right translations. On top of it he writes in very coherent and understandable way, pleasure to read. Surly, I'm aware that he might be wrong, but from all the people here he makes the most sense to me, therefore I go with his explanations.

Sorry to say how yes no, but you don't have methodology. You compare names mostly from English literature translated from different languages, often from Greek or Latin, and your favorite Jordanes who's heard the names and stories form a guy, from a guy, from a guy etc. Even if you find ancient Slavic name it's translated from Latin or Greek.

I'll give you an example how much your "methodology" can be wrong. One of most famous people in last 2 thousand years is Jesus. We all know this person and story about his life since he's times. It all happened inside roman empire, writing was known, historians existed, translation was very common.
He was a Jew, so Jesus is a Jewish name, right? It must be, it all happened in age of written history, scholars and many translates in borders of same empire. It should be true to the bone. You don't say they possibly could have the name of most known person in history wrong?!
I said many times, the life is more interesting than fiction!
Just hold to your chair. The beloved English Jesus is actually Yeshua, well again with proximity with todays phonetic English translation from todays Hebrew. Even among IE using same alphabets Jesus is phonetically, Hesus in Spanish, Yezu in Polish. Hmmm, having good written sources, and Jews still speaking Hebrew all the time, and living in every country in Europe till today, we couldn't get Jesus name right???!!! What is wrong with supposedly knowledgeable, educated and smart people translating?!
With your "methodology" you wouldn't make a connection between Jesus and Yeshua, unless you had sources linking these two. And we are not talking about obscured tribal names from regions of ancient world that weren't literate. If Jews were illiterate and Hebrew didn't survive till today, we wouldn't even knew a real name of Jesus, the god for couple of billions of people! Lol, this is something, isn't it?!
The same goes to names of ancient tribes that you eagerly compare today. We don't know how they were pronounced, we only know rough approximations, and often just bad translations, fictional stories, legends and maybe even lies.

Concluding my thought. When I've read Taranis' great written piece with good methodology this morning, and I've seen you guys jumping within 5 minutes with your linguistic materpieces..., I couldn't resist a comment. What can I say, I'm just a human with emotions.:grin:

 

[iapetoc]

That's true. Even all IE languages are but "dialects" of the same one.
Etruscans were no greeks, no albanians, no serbs, ... they were just Etruscans!
I think that Etruscan is an IE language and it relates to all IE languages. It seems to be more similar with Albanian, may be because to arrive in Italic peninsula they have passed through Thracia and Illyria (in a long period of time).
The text pasted below is taken from www.etruscan-translation.com

The Pyrgi Tablets
1 – I ta t'mia, i cac.
2 - Hera mas va, vatie χe u nial.
3 - As tres θemia sa meχ θu ta θe farie.
4 - I veli anas, s’al clu veni as tu ru ce mun i stas.
5 - Θuvas ta mer, e s’ca ilac.
6 - Ve t’ulerase nac.
7 - Ci avil, χur varte sia me Ital e ilacve!
8 - Al sase nac.
9 – A tra nes zila cal.
10 - S’e le Itala.
11 - Acna s’vers i tanim.
12 - Heramve avil.
13 - Eni, a ca pulumχva?
14 - Na cθe farie.
15 - Veli i unas θam, uc e cleva e ta nalm.
16 - Asan t’iu runi!
17 - As sel a ce?
18 - Vacal t’mial avil, χvala mu ce pulumχva s’nuiaφ.

In Gheg
1-I ta t’miat, I kac.
2-Hera masi vam vate e u nial.
3-As tre thermia sa me thu ta them pergjigjen.
4-I beni anash, s’atje ku veni as tu ru ke mun me i qendru.
5-Thuvash (thash) ta mar e s’ka ilac.
6-Dhe t’ulerase nac.
7-Ky udhtim, kur vate zia me Itale e ilacve.
8-…………………………
9-Midis (nder) nesh zjarr kall.
10-S’e le Italen.
11-Ika te pushoj tanim
12-Heramve vij.
13-Eni, a ka yje?
14-Na kthe pergjigje.
15-Berjen e asaj qe tham nuk e kreva e ta nalm.
16-Asaj t’iu runi.
17-Aq zell, a ke.
18-Vazhdimi udhetimit tim, varet mu ke e paniofura e yjeve.

In English
1-these mines, that's all.
2-early after arrival, he revived .
3-Neither but three granules just to say I'm responding.
4- Go aside for there where you are going to, you can not be safe.
5-I was going to take some healers (drugs), but there is not , .
6-And let him howl if.
7-This trip, when the hell in Italy there are no healers (drugs) there!
8 - ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..
9-Between (among) us there is fire.
10-I do not leave Italy.
11-I’m going to rest now.
12-Comin’ early.
13 - And, are there stars (what's the weather like there).
14-Give back response .
15 - The doing of what we said, I did not fulfill and to stop.
16 - Be cautious of it.
17-So much zeal, do you have?
18-Continuation of my trip depends on the unknowness of the stars.

A = 1- Interrogative particle, like a in Albanian, ex: A më dëgjon = do you hear me? or in Gheg: A thu? = really?
Acna = going, gone (first person, singular). In Albanian: ika = I’m going now.
Al, s’al = there. In Albanian: atie/atje. In Etruscan s’al, the consonant s’ has the same function as the nowadays Albanian se = because; for; compare with ital. se.
Anas = aside. In Albanian: anash = aside.
As = 1- neither (conj.) used like English neither….nor; 2- so much; as much as (adv). In Albanian: 1- as … as = neither … nor; 2- aq = as much as. Compare with English "as".
Asan = her. In Albanian: asaj = her.
Avil = journey (n&v). In Italian: viaggio. In Albanian vi/vij means: 1-come; 2- line. In Italian "via" means road, street or far; and "a" means in (on) or shows direction. Etruscan a+vil means in (on) the line (street).
Ca = has. In Albanian: ka = has.
Cac (i cac) = so much (adv.); that’s all. In Albanian: kaq = that’s all; In Gegean: i kaç = that’s all; In Etruscan: i cac = that’s all.
cal = insert, put in, turn on. In Albanian: kall (zjarrin) = to fire.
Ce = have (second person, singular). In Albanian: ke = have (second person, singular).
Ce = at. In Gheg Albanian: ke = at; in standard Albanian: te, tek =at.
Ci = this/that. In Albanian: ki/ky. In Italian: chi.
Cleva = performed, fulfilled (first person, singular). In Albanian: kreva = fulfilled, performed (first person, singular).
Clu = where. In Albanian: ku = where.
Cθe (na cθe) = give back (second person, singular, –in imperative). In Albanian: na kthe = give back to us. The same as in nowadays Albanian, when someone sends e letter to sb. and asks him to respond: na kthe pergjigje = give us response (although the sender is single).
E = and.
Eni = hence. In Gheg: eni = hence.
Farie = response. In Italian: (vario); varie = writings; different things.
he = and. In Albanian and in Italian: e = and.
Hera = early. In Albanian: hera = the time. It’s the etymology of "era" used in almost all European languages.
Heramve = soon, early. In Gheg: heramve.
Xur = when. In Albanian: kur = when.
Xvala = depends. In Albanian: varet = depends.
I = of. In Albanian: i.
Ilac = healer; drug. Survives in Turkish and in Albanian ilaç/hilaç.
Ilacve = of healers; of drugs (genitive case). In Albanian: e ilaçve/
e ilaçeve = of drugs.
Itale = Italy. In Gheg Albanian: Itale = Italy. In standard Albanian: Itali = Italy.
Itale is the feminine form of Ital (masc.), an adjective noun which means "vital".
It’s wordroot it- which in some other areas pronounced et (Arom.) or iet/jet (Alb.) means life. So, ita, eta, or ieta/jeta mean: the life.
Itala = the Italy. In Gheg: Itala. In standard Albanian: Italia.
Le = leave, let. In Albanian: le/lë = leave, let.
Mas = after. In Gehg: mas = after; In standard Albanian: mbas = after.
Me = in. In Gehg:m’/më = in.
Meh = to. In Gehg: me. Eg: me angër/me hangër = to eat.
Mer = takes. In Albanian: mer = takes.
Mia (t’mia) = mine (pron). In Albanian: t’mia/te mia = mines (pron.).
Mial = my.
Mu = just. In Albanian: mu = just
Mun = may, can. In Gheg Albanian: mun = may, can. In standard Albanian: mund = may, can.
Na = us. Proclitic and enclitic form of the Albanian personal pronoun (first person, plural). Eg: na kthe; kthena = give back (to us).
Nac = if, if you like. In Gheg Albanian: naç = if, if you like. In standard Albanian: ndaç = if you like.
Nalm = stop (first person, plural). In Gheg Albanian: nalm = stop (first person, plural); In standard Albanian: ndalim = stop (first person, plural).
Nes = us. In Albanian: nesh = us. Atra nes = between us.
Nial (u nial) = revived (third person, singular). In Gheg: u niall = revived (third person, singular); In standard Albanian: u ngjall = revived (third person, singular).
Nuiaf (n&v) = know. In Albanian: niof/njof/njoh = know (first person, singular); Etruscan: nuiaf = know (both v&n).
Pulumhva = stars. In Albanian "pullumba" means "doves".
Ru (tu ru) = 1- to guard; to keep (in memory). In Gheg Albanian: tu ru = to be safe, to guard, to keep (in memory).
Runi (tu runi) = to be safeguarded (second person, plural).
Sa = how (much). In Albanian: sa = how much.
Sase = quantity. In Albanian: sasi = quantity.
S = non-, un-, in- (prefix to express the opposite or the riverse of a proces); 2- don’t/does not (negative particle). Survives in Albanian s as a negative particle.
Eg: s’e le Itala = don’t leave the Italy (first person, singular).
Sel = zeal. In Albanian: zell = zeal.
Sia = 1- the crisis; 2- the mourning. In Albanian: zia = the mourning; the crisis.
snuiaf = 1- don’t know; (first person, singular); 2- unknown. In Albanian: s’niof/s’njof/s’njoh = don’t know (first person, singular).
The opposite of nuiaf.
Stas = stay; stand (second person, singular). This word does not survive in Albanian. It survives in almost all European languages.
Svers = rest (the opposite of vers = do, make). See vers.
T, t'iu, ta = short forms of pers. pron.
Tanim = now. In Albanian: tanime = now.
Θam = said (first person, plural). In Albanian: tham = said (first person, plural).
Θe = say (n&v).
Θemia = granules. In Albanian: thermia = granules.
Θu = say. See Cippus Perusinus on this blog. In Gheg Albanian: me thu = to say.
Θuvas = said (first person, singular). Dialectal Albanian: thuvash = said (first person, singular); In standard Albanian: thashe = said (first person, singular).
Tra = through. In Italian: tra = between, through.
Tres = three.
Tu = to.
U = in Albanian it's a short form of the pers. pron.
Uc = not. In Albanian: nuk = not. In Greek:
In Turkish: yok =
Ulerase = howl, roar. In Albanian: ulerase = howl, roar; Te ulerase = to howl (because of pains).
Unas (i unas) = of that one (fem.).
Va (v&n) = arrival . In Albanian: vajtje = going ; In Italian: va = go.
Vacal = progress, continuation. In Albanian: vazhdim = continuation.
Varte = arrived, turned to be (third person, singular). In Albanian: vate = arrived; turned to be (third person, singular).
Vati = went/arrived (third person, singular). In Albanian: vajti = went/arrived (third person, singular).
Ve = and.
Veli = the doing.
Veni = go/come (second person, plural). In Albanian: veni = go/come (second person, plural).
Vers = do, make; svers = do not make (the opposite of vers).
Zila = the fire; In Albanian: ziar/ziarr = fire.

well seems like for some reason you deny to see the Etruscans and the Pelasgians,
I don't know why, but you even turn wrong the Lemnean stele,

I still don't understand why when the majority of Linguists trnslated the Lemnian stele different you keep give another translation,

lets see just 1 word of your translation

AVILS

is possesive case of Avis (ether avis + ale, either avi+ale + si (lockation si?or dative?))
Avis means year, not journey, not in line,

avils maχs śealχisc "and aged sixty-five" (or for 65 years -si 2nd form)

sivai avils maxs sealxisc lived for 65 years, or aged the 65 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemnos_stele

the phainomeno to use possessive+dative is not unknown in Aegean,
Modern Greek unite them to γενικη general case
it is common to use possessive instead of dative in singular
and accusative in plural,


to understand more ,

First mention of Etruscans is as Pelasgians in Smyrna area minor asia,
then is Thessaly, from thessaly they return east to Lemnos and Lesbos as Julia said in a previus post,
one of their Kings Cadmus invades more North to Pelagonia,
His son Illyros invades Illyria,
the time of sea peoples we found a Pelasgian Branch in Italy named as Etruscans (exonym)

Pelasgians Broke to many parts, according their assimilation with others,
in Greece are assimilated with Greeks but before they Create early Minoan culture
in Italy they create Thyrrenians and later most of them unite with Romans, Today are Italians
in Illyria they were assimilated with Celts to create the Illyrians
in Palaistine they stay as pelest, and later they turn to Arab culture,

the case of Raesians of North is another story which I don't know.

now about your translations and your post,
ok if you think that Albanian language is the older or the 1rst IE or the only one that can translate ancient languages you are wrong,
First try to understand and study the ancient languages, then find the roots, then connect with Albanian, and then try to translate or give other meanings,


the number 12

heramve vij
if I translate it in rough tranlsation in modern Greek is 'εραμβε βιας'

means 'quick sew' he sew fast,

Ok quys Etruscans speak modern Greek, :cool-v:

I solve problem,

that kind of Linguist work is just for



lets see alluvium Greek Αλλουβιανος

Αλλουβιανες γαιες (alluvium soils, territories)

I turn alphabet to latin

Allubianes Gaies

YEAH I Translated It

Gaius Julius Agrippa was Albanian, :innocent: :innocent:


another example
Μη ρε διαταζεις ( don't give commands)
MHΡΕΔΙΑΤΑΖΕΙΣ

latin alphabet
MIREDIATAZEIS

yeah mire dite Zeus
good morning Zeus

that is kind of translation????

 

[julia90]

First mention of Etruscans is as Pelasgians in Smyrna area minor asia,
then is Thessaly, from thessaly they return east to Lemnos and Lesbos as Julia said in a previus post,
one of their Kings Cadmus invades more North to Pelagonia,
His son Illyros invades Illyria,
the time of sea peoples we found a Pelasgian Branch in Italy named as Etruscans (exonym)

Pelasgians Broke to many parts, according their assimilation with others,
in Greece are assimilated with Greeks but before they Create early Minoan culture
in Italy they create Thyrrenians and later most of them unite with Romans, Today are Italians
in Illyria they were assimilated with Celts to create the Illyrians
in Palaistine they stay as pelest, and later they turn to Arab culture,

the case of Raesians of North is another story which I don't know.

Very interesting...

That i know of, Raethians were etruscans of northern italy (Po Valley) that at the arrival of celtic tribes there (Gauls: Boi, Cenomani, Carni etc..) retired on the Alps

 

[zanipolo]

you should not brag with your ignorance....

thing that Etruscans come from Lydia in Asia minor is much much much better attested than e.g the idea that Indo-Europeans speakers came from Asia to Europe and not other way around...


Herodotus
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/etrucans2.html

since 18 year long hunger is not so common event in history of mankind we can even date this
1159 BC: The Hekla 3 eruption triggers an 18-year period of climatic worsening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_century_BC

thus they sailed away to their new homes probably in year 1141 BC..

note that settlement from anatolia is also confirmed by genetic testing of cattle
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/274/1614/1175.long

also by DNA testing of people
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/science/03etruscan.html

regarding splitting the tribe in two with one part staying and one living, I do not know how common is that custom, but identical thing happened with movement of Serbs from land Boiki (Bohemia) to Balkan

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3al...istrando imperio&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q&f=false



as for Serbs, I never claimed Etruscans were Serbs, since they are not the same neither genetically, nor linguistically.... but there are too many common points to be ignored

R1a match exactly the shape of Etruscans in Umbria
it also shows clear hole in Lydia in place from which they departed...
btw. similar holds for J2 more or less

there is triple sharing of tribal names with Serbs:

1) Etruscans identified themselves as Rasenna Raśna (pronounced Rashna) while medieval Serbs used alternative tribal name Rašani (pronounced Rashani)..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rascia

2) Etruscans were by Greeks called Tyrrhenian, and in same Tyrrhenian was used related to name Sardis/Spard/Sard


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrhenians

the tribal name Sard/Sparda/Saparda/Sapardu was more widely used throughout Asia
even now it is there in name of Pastun Sarbans that clearly match shape of the arc of Serian people from China to India..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia

3) tribal names Serbs and Macedonians are related ... and from what Taranis has just said I can conclude that Mekh was likely yet another alternative self name of Etruscan.. my guess is that it was probably in south part of their country same as is case in Balkans with Slavic tribes who origin from Serians of Europe, and in Sheba/Sabbeans or Serians of Red sea



so, based on triple relation between tribal names, based on R1a genetics, based on custom of splitting the tribe in two halfs, it is quite plausible to expect some shared vocabulary betwen Serbs/Slavs and Etruscans...


happy?

hmm, can you link this sardis name because it was not called sardis when the etruscans where there.
The earliest reference to Sardis is in the Persae of Aeschylus (472 BC); in the Iliad the name Hyde seems to be given to the city of the Maeonian (i.e. Lydian) chiefs, and in later times Hyde was said to be the older name of Sardis, or the name of its citadel. It is, however, more probable that Sardis was not the original capital of the Maeonians, but that it became so amid the changes which produced the powerful Lydian empire of the 8th century BC The city was captured by the Cimmerians in the 7th century,

when did the etruscans move to Italy ?

IIRC, it was between 1000 - 1200 BC . If this is the case , then hyde would be sardis. Can you correct me if this is in error.

 

[zanipolo]

etruscan phrases

http://www.maravot.com/Indo-European_Table.html

 

[iapetoc]

I'll give you an example how much your "methodology" can be wrong. One of most famous people in last 2 thousand years is Jesus. We all know this person and story about his life since he's times. It all happened inside roman empire, writing was known, historians existed, translation was very common.
He was a Jew, so Jesus is a Jewish name, right? It must be, it all happened in age of written history, scholars and many translates in borders of same empire. It should be true to the bone. You don't say they possibly could have the name of most known person in history wrong?!
I said many times, the life is more interesting than fiction!
Just hold to your chair. The beloved English Jesus is actually Yeshua, well again with proximity with todays phonetic English translation from todays Hebrew. Even among IE using same alphabets Jesus is phonetically, Hesus in Spanish, Yezu in Polish. Hmmm, having good written sources, and Jews still speaking Hebrew all the time, and living in every country in Europe till today, we couldn't get Jesus name right???!!! What is wrong with supposedly knowledgeable, educated and smart people translating?!
With your "methodology" you wouldn't make a connection between Jesus and Yeshua, unless you had sources linking these two. And we are not talking about obscured tribal names from regions of ancient world that weren't literate. If Jews were illiterate and Hebrew didn't survive till today, we wouldn't even knew a real name of Jesus, the god for couple of billions of people! Lol, this is something, isn't it?!
The same goes to names of ancient tribes that you eagerly compare today. We don't know how they were pronounced, we only know rough approximations, and often just bad translations, fictional stories, legends and maybe even lies.

Wrong,

Ok Jesus was Jew,

but lets see, Yehsua in modern Hebrew,
that means could be also Jehsu etc, or as Λουκας say IHSOYN (jesun?)

Now how about that, Mathew 1.21 in Koine NO TRANSLATION FROM HEBREW

what he says? What Jesus name means? A savour and a Healer?

lets see Greek word for Healing salvation Iasis Ιασις,
who was daughter of Asclepius Ιασω Iēsō

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iaso

recuperation from illness Greek Iasis

so as you see LEBROK
meaning is same, sound is same, Identification of root is established,
Link was given, what else you want just to shut up PLZ

Who is older? Ieso or Jesus?

the name of jesus is written in Greek Language in Greek alphabet since 1rst century,

new testament is written in Greek Koine of Alexandreia or Hellenistic 2

so the name of jesus is ΙΗΣΟΥΝ in Greek read Λουκας 1 chapter
since I is Γιωτα ι is not j as english jesus but whi-ota and
greek η is long e is Yesun (pronounce as)

the most possible name is Yesun not Yeshua and has 1 s not 2 so probably no sh
with sort y and e as e in equal and not in economy
the ending from -n to -s is made by genitive Greek -s cause -n is only in neutral person

and Jesus is considered male not neutral

the rest is according to each other language,

result
Jesus was not Yehsua But Yesun
if I take consider that 4 vowel system of Middle East culture o does not exist in some and exist u Ου or the opposite u does exist but exists o

so if i replace u to o I have Yeson
rejecting -n to Female person is Jeso, (in other case +e Yesone)
J In Greek is Z
But I is sometimes whi so IESO

both alphabetical, Linguistic Identfication or word is done,

Jesus and Ieso-Iaso-Ιασω is the same meaning word, but in another person,
As you see Pelasgian is Connected with Ugarit as Hebrew and Aramaic,
the semitic Branch of anatolian languages,
as also in my previus post I connect Jerusalem With Greek-Pelasgian,
maybe the Book of Jehunda Tel Aviv PHD could help you


the case of the last words in cross is another subject,
cause could mean another than it is written,

there is a possibility that -n was -m in older Hebrew like Jews used to end with -m in old testament
Ps,
Lebrok If I was in your position I would just close my mouth,

i ι is γι-οτα j ζ is zi-ota ->zita

ty Lebrok cause you gave me handle to give you a link of wiki,

Besides look at your lexicon the Greek words
Ειρηνη Ηρεμια Γαληνη means same but one root does not have ιρ or ερ
salem from satem to Centum calem to Greek alphabet γαλεμ ν->μ Γαληνη
about alphabet connections search wiki,

My methodology is Correct,

Jesus was Jew But Jesus is not a Jew Name but A further ancient Ugarit or Hattians word,
It was never yehsua but Yesun, in Pelasgian of Thessaly we found that name as Jason only e to a

I dont care who is the most know, I care about who is the most ancient person word, The Ieso semi-god we found In greek or the jesun

mathew 1.21 No translation, original text, mathew was Jew

ΤΕΞΕΤΑΙ ΔΕ ΥΙΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΛΕΣΕΙΣ ΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΙΗΣΟΥΝ΄ΑΥΤΟΣ ΓΑΡ ΣΩΣΕΙ ΤΟΝ ΛΑΟΝ ΑΥΤΟΥ ΑΠΟ ΤΩΝ ΑΜΑΡΤΙΩΝ ΑΥΤΟΥ.

besides I never said that name of Jesus is wrong, or Jesus was Greek, so plz read carefully.
I gave the meaning of the name, and compare it with Pelasgian-Greek Ieso, and Indeed YOU WANT IT OR NOT, means same,
Besides all 3 names means something
EmanuEl with us GOD
Jesus savor-Healer
Christ the one that is chosen anointed , chrismation

and there are many more linguistic connctions as Noah Japheth etc.

the case of fictional stories if you ever read carefully my posts, I say when it is, or when it can be,
But seems you never read them carefully,
About lies, I am seeking Truth as Parmenides, But I can't never reject something, simply I choose the most the most close to reality, than the one which is made in Banania republic, or allien industry.

now plz go to your chair and enjoy your life, and read translations made for you,

New Testament even in English is not Translated by Hebrew, cause it was never written in Hebrew,
except Mathew who him shelf wrote to book in Both Hebrew and Greek,

 

[how yes no 2]

Taranis, can we go to the next sentence in order to see whether the links I have found in the first one were completely accidental or not...

Sorry to say how yes no, but you don't have methodology. You compare names mostly from English literature translated from different languages, often from Greek or Latin, and your favorite Jordanes who's heard the names and stories form a guy, from a guy, from a guy etc. Even if you find ancient Slavic name it's translated from Latin or Greek.
...
The same goes to names of ancient tribes that you eagerly compare today. We don't know how they were pronounced, we only know rough approximations, and often just bad translations, fictional stories, legends and maybe even lies.

Concluding my thought. When I've read Taranis' great written piece with good methodology this morning, and I've seen you guys jumping within 5 minutes with your linguistic materpieces..., I couldn't resist a comment. What can I say, I'm just a human with emotions.:grin:

Taranis is very systematic, very precise, very conventional and very biased as he is protecting vision of Germanic/Celtic Europe with Slavic intruders from Asia....

My theory on this site is based on claim of Bavarian geographer (thus Germanic person) that state of Zeruiani was so big that all Slavs come from it... I show that there is obvious relation between Zeruiani and Serians mention by Seneca... I show that Serians are most likely no other than Cimmerians... those ancient people used also tribal names related to Serb tribal name, and traces of that we can see all around Euroasia... that doesnot mean all these people were ancestors of today Serbs, it means that Serbs are small part of that group who actually kept ancient tribal name....

your problem is that you do not study anything, you do not have attitudes, you just read this forum as it is an encyclopedia.... and of course writing of Taranis that is based on scholarly knowledge and old theories appears to be holy truth to you...... but there are no holy truths in ancient history... there are only clues... and if I interpret them somewhat differently than biased Germanic school from 19th century, that doesnot mean that I am clearly wrong.... on contrary I have digged out some connections that is impossible to ignore....

another thing is that Taranis arguments are based on linguistics, and mine on genetics and continuity of tribal names used by people with same genetics... languages change... your children speak english as native language, but your grandfathers didnot... but your children will carry last name of your ancestors...that is where their identity is, where their roots are, not in their language... .same happens with nations...what is last name for person, that is tribal name for peoples......languages of nations change, sometimes dramatically...look at latin America and spread of latin languages in Europe...language that was only spoken in small village called Rome just 2500 years ago now is spread to cover big chunk of world.....that enormous scale language shift happened in historic times...and we here on the forum try to decipher much much earlier times... obvious conclusion is that linguistic is only of very limited value when it comes to origin of nations........

e.g. people of Tuscany origin from Etruscans but they now speak different language than Etruscans did... some words probably stayed though... linguistic argument that Taranis uses agains presence of early Slavs in central Europe is that obviously Celtic languages were spoken there... same argument would make people from Tuscany not related at all to Etruscans because they speak different language...and it would make French not related at all to Gauls...and it would make Mexicans not related at all to Mayas and Aztecs... and it would make most people classified as originating from native Americans of today not related to Sioux, Cherokee, Apache, Comanche and other related tribes...... proper linguistic argument is not such a high level remark... proper linguistic argument is only going into ancient inscriptions and trying to resolve them with linguistic knowledge, as Taranis does on this thread...

languages change but tribal names are identities and they often stay.. it is impossible to track distant past with superficial level of linguistic arguments (such as this tribe spoke Celtic and thus cannot be ancestors of some Slavic people) as Taranis does in most of the posts on other threads (I have to say that in this thread his arguments are solid as he does dive deep in language constructs...my view is that he is not personally interested not to allow some level of distant link between Slavic and Etruscans because it is anyway out of Germanic area of interest...he uses vague linguistic arguments only for central Europe as he wants to see Slavic people as complete intruders there) ... the reason I am sure that it is possible to trace ancient history through similarity of tribal names is that they represent identity of people... much more than languages do...

lot of offical history has built-in knowledge based on theories from 19th century ....those theories were often biased....e.g. argument that tribal names such as Veneti and Venedi are completely unrelated people is unscientific biased theory of Germanic school from 19th century whose political goal was to make Slavs intruders from Asia and in that way make basis for claim on their lands.... it is unscientific because there are no proofs of unrelatedness of tribal names except that those people probably spoke different languages and didnot consider themselves as same people at some point in time e.g. around 1 AD... but that doesnot exclude much earlier link... and I find such link in I2 genetics..

regarding this thread I am proposing here that perhaps some opf the vocabulary is shared between Serbs/Slavs and Etruscans... I have well motivated reasons why I expect that to be the case... I do expect also that some words are shared with Anatolia languages, with Greek, and Albanian (especially Tosks) ...

new theories were always attacked by mediocre minds... I do not see that Taranis in this thread attacks my post...I think he realizes same as me that some link is there...but it's hard to say how far the relation goes...

hmm, can you link this sardis name because it was not called sardis when the etruscans where there.
The earliest reference to Sardis is in the Persae of Aeschylus (472 BC); in the Iliad the name Hyde seems to be given to the city of the Maeonian (i.e. Lydian) chiefs, and in later times Hyde was said to be the older name of Sardis, or the name of its citadel. It is, however, more probable that Sardis was not the original capital of the Maeonians, but that it became so amid the changes which produced the powerful Lydian empire of the 8th century BC The city was captured by the Cimmerians in the 7th century,

when did the etruscans move to Italy ?

IIRC, it was between 1000 - 1200 BC . If this is the case , then hyde would be sardis. Can you correct me if this is in error.

you have good point there...

The earliest reference to Sardis is in the The Persians of Aeschylus (472 BC); in the Iliad the name Hyde seems to be given to the city of the Maeonian (i.e. Lydian) chiefs, and in later times Hyde was said to be the older name of Sardis, or the name of its citadel. It is, however, more probable that Sardis was not the original capital of the Maeonians, but that it became so amid the changes which produced the powerful Lydian empire of the 8th century BC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardis

btw. note that Maeonian = Lydian
I would say that indicates relation to nearby Minoans...

besides expected J2 and E-V13 on Crete especially in hilly areas we find R1a and haplogroup I
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/05/exploring-y-chromosome-haplogroup.html

according to Sparkey that haplogroup I is almost all I2 - the one I relate to Serians / Cimmerians...
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26076-sea-peoples&p=371406&viewfull=1#post371406

 

[iapetoc]

etruscan phrases

http://www.maravot.com/Indo-European_Table.html

Are you sure? it is correct?

99.99% of words are equal Latin,

the site you post if is correct just say Etruscan were latins

watch the
http://www.maravot.com/Indo-European_Table1A.1.html

all Etruscan with Latin have no difference almost,

I still don't get zanipolo, Etruscans were IE cause that is what that table I link above,
just compair the Latin with the Etruscan

simply another fake site for me,



!!!!!!!!!

 

[Taranis]

Taranis is very systematic, very precise, very conventional and very biased as he is protecting vision of Germanic/Celtic Europe with Slavic intruders from Asia....

I think I have all right in the world to be feeling insulted now. :annoyed:

Seriously. "Biased?"

For the record, neither do I have a "vision" of a Germanic or Celtic Europe, nor am I "protecting" it. Also, I never, EVER stated, at any time, that the Slavic peoples were "intruders from Asia". I've been very precise about the close relationship of the Baltic and Slavic language families.

My theory on this site is based on claim of Bavarian geographer (thus Germanic person) that state of Zeruiani was so big that all Slavs come from it... I show that there is obvious relation between Zeruiani and Serians mention by Seneca... I show that Serians are most likely no other than Cimmerians... those ancient people used also tribal names related to Serb tribal name, and traces of that we can see all around Euroasia... that doesnot mean all these people were ancestors of today Serbs, it means that Serbs are small part of that group who actually kept ancient tribal name....

Without a further word, that is just fantasy.

How the hell do you get from SERI-ans to CIMMERI-ans?!

your problem is that you do not study anything, you do not have attitudes, you just read this forum as it is an encyclopedia.... and of course writing of Taranis that is based on scholarly knowledge and old theories appears to be holy truth to you...... but there are no holy truths in ancient history... there are only clues... and if I interpret them somewhat differently than biased Germanic school from 19th century, that doesnot mean that I am clearly wrong.... on contrary I have digged out some connections that is impossible to ignore....

A "biased Germanic school of the 19th century"? etrified: Sorry, I must disagree about that. If you're refering to Grimm's Law and to the Neogrammarian hypothesis of the "unexceptionality of sound laws", then let me remind you that this is the foundation of modern linguistics. Do you want to ditch 130+ years of reliable, proven methodology just to "prove" your "hypothesis"? Occam's Razor does not agree with you.

And actually, there is more than just clues. Various sources, be they ancient authors, be they onomastic evidence, be they modern languages (and the sound laws that gave forth these languages) - all gives a coherent image.

another thing is that Taranis arguments are based on linguistics, and mine on genetics and continuity of tribal names used by people with same genetics... languages change... your children speak english as native language, but your grandfathers didnot... but your children will carry last name of your ancestors...that is where their identity is, where their roots are, not in their language... .same happens with nations...what is last name for person, that is tribal name for peoples......languages of nations change, sometimes dramatically...look at latin America and spread of latin languages in Europe...language that was only spoken in small village called Rome just 2500 years ago now is spread to cover big chunk of world.....that enormous scale language shift happened in historic times...and we here on the forum try to decipher much much earlier times... obvious conclusion is that linguistic is only of very limited value when it comes to origin of nations........

e.g. people of Tuscany origin from Etruscans but they now speak different language than Etruscans did... some words probably stayed though... linguistic argument that Taranis uses agains presence of early Slavs in central Europe is that obviously Celtic languages were spoken there... same argument would make people from Tuscany not related at all to Etruscans because they speak different language...and it would make French not related at all to Gauls...and it would make Mexicans not related at all to Mayas and Aztecs... and it would make most people classified as originating from native Americans of today not related to Sioux, Cherokee, Apache, Comanche and other related tribes...... proper linguistic argument is not such a high level remark... proper linguistic argument is only going into ancient inscriptions and trying to resolve them with linguistic knowledge, as Taranis does on this thread...

languages change but tribal names are identities and they often stay.. it is impossible to track distant past with superficial level of linguistic arguments (such as this tribe spoke Celtic and thus cannot be ancestors of some Slavic people) as Taranis does in most of the posts on other threads (I have to say that in this thread his arguments are solid as he does dive deep in language constructs...my view is that he is not personally interested not to allow some level of distant link between Slavic and Etruscans because it is anyway out of Germanic area of interest...he uses vague linguistic arguments only for central Europe as he wants to see Slavic people as complete intruders there) ... the reason I am sure that it is possible to trace ancient history through similarity of tribal names is that they represent identity of people... much more than languages do...

lot of offical history has built-in knowledge based on theories from 19th century ....those theories were often biased....e.g. argument that tribal names such as Veneti and Venedi are completely unrelated people is unscientific biased theory of Germanic school from 19th century whose political goal was to make Slavs intruders from Asia and in that way make basis for claim on their lands.... it is unscientific because there are no proofs of unrelatedness of tribal names except that those people probably spoke different languages and didnot consider themselves as same people at some point in time e.g. around 1 AD... but that doesnot exclude much earlier link... and I find such link in I2 genetics..

You are assuming a conspiracy where there is none. On the flipside, your own "theories" are decisively worse: you randomly pick similar-sounding names, without given a thought into what language they were in, what meaning they had or might have had in that language, and randomly assign them to Y-chromosomal Haplogroups and create images of strange, undying "tribal identities" which endure time regardless of what language people speak or how their languages change. No offense, but I find that all highly implausible and highly unlikely, in particular because there's no practical way to proof your "Chromosomal Tribalism".

As said before, I didn't state that the Slavic peoples were "Intruders from Asia", but it is within the Slavic languages themselves that Common Slavic must have been spoken exceptionally late. I was going to make a separate thread about that some time in the future (similar to the Pre-Germanic and Celtic thread I did a while back), but it is not ready yet.

new theories were always attacked by mediocre minds... I do not see that Taranis in this thread attacks my post...I think he realizes same as me that some link is there...but it's hard to say how far the relation goes...

Actually, the reason, the reason I didn't reply to you was twofold:

First off, your posts, no offense, are very poorly structured and cumbersone to read, even moreso to reply to (which is, I must admit that, I also cut this reply relatively short).

Secondly, whenever I tore apart your ideas in the past, you consistently didn't even bother to take my criticism into consideration (because you have an ad-hoc opinion which you are not going to change, anyways), so this time around I didn't even bother to reply to it because, no offense, it's not worth the effort.

 

[how yes no 2]

I will answer this as the rest is not worth commenting...

How the hell do you get from SERI-ans to CIMMERI-ans?!

Does this mean that now you admit Slavs origin from Serians, but still need to defend line of Serians not being same as Cimmerians?

your problem is that you want linguistic proof for everything... and you cannot have that without knowing pretty good all languages involved in chain of passing tribal name and also of recording tribal name...many languages can be involved in this process, especially on large areas...

on other hand, indications of links are pretty obvious from what we know about history....

briefly:

state of Zeruiani was so big that all Slavs origin from it.... Serians of Seneca live in Europe, Caspian highlands but also as far as northwest China and Red sea....only known historic tribes that can potentially match so large spread of tribe in both Europe and Asia are Scythians, Cimmerians and Sarmatians....

Seneca claims that Serians rule over scattered Scythians, so they are clearly not Scythians...
Seneca's Serians also live among Sarmatians in Caspian highlands, so they are not Sarmatians either

besides I see Cimmerians/Serians as originally I2 people together with Veneti
and Scythians are based on ancient DNA thought to have been dominantly R1a people
while Sarmatians are in legend of origin Scythians who were intermarrying Amazones... so probably mostly R1a as well...

Cimmerians have settled in Cappadocia... that is where we find island of I2....in Strabo's time people of Cappadocia are called white Syrians

archeological findings of Thraco-Cimmerians in Europe match positions of I2 spread, and also fit well with position of later early Slavs, ...

I do not even claim that Serians are ancestors of Slavs only... note that I2 spread is also about Germanic I2b and Italic I2a1 people... I think Serians/Cimmerians might have been original Indo-Europeans... the way I see it, today Serbs are just small part of people who origin from Serians/Cimmerians, but they have kept the ancient old tribal name...Serbs also have weird saying "speak Serbian, so that the whole world understands you"....tribal name of Serbs is ancient as we find related tribal names throughout Euroasia and we can relate it mostly to haplogroup I, but also to R1a spread..... that is perhaps where link with tribal names of Etruscans come as well...

but I am here curious whether Etruscans has something in common with R1a speakers... because I suspect that R1a were originally not-IE speakers and got their IE language from I2 Cimmerians... in that case Slavic people as most R1a people should have some vocabulary and perhaps also some grammar rules shared with Etruscans...

anyway, cut the spitting and offending and shouting and putting me down..

I have my ways to find out what happened - theory of tribal names carrying identity, studying genetics and combining it with original historical records while completely ignoring official interpretations that e.g. without having any insight into genetics (and without knowing actual languages spoken by tribes) boldly claim how they are 100% sure that this and that tribal name just sound similar by accident

you have your ways - some linguistic knowledge that you often apply very vaguely (oh, there was inscription in Celtic in that area, so no Slavic speaking tribe could have lived on 200km around) and reading official history books that are just interpretations of history records that are shaped by mindset of 19th century historians that had no search engines, no access to big libraries, and were interpreting history based on bias and wild and vague guesses

and let's see next sentence from inscription....

we have here Italic, Slavic, Greek, Albanian people...
I am sure we can find many Etruscan words in combination of those vocabularies....

 

[Taranis]

I will answer this as the rest is not worth commenting...

You might start contemplate it, instead of randomly insulting me.

anyway, cut the spitting and offending and shouting and putting me down..
I have my ways to find what happened, you have your ways (reading official history books shaped by mindset of 19th century historians that was interpreting history based on bias and wide guesses)

And you're doing it again. :indifferent:

and let's see next sentence from inscription....

Fine:

Thefariei Welianas sal cluwenias turuce.
Tiberius Welianas (or "Tiberius of Welian") has given (the) pleasing (of) shrine.

Thefariei (name - "Tiberius" in Latin, spelled "TBRY´" in Phoenician)
Welian (name)
-as (genitive particle)

sal (pleasing)

cluwenia (shrine)
-s (genitive particle)

turuce
Tur- (to give)
-u- (resultative particle)
-ce (imperfect particle)
(in combination "he/she/it has given")

One additional note I must make here: I'm not 100% convinced that it really reads as "Thefariei" in the Etruscan inscription. The Etruscan "F"-letter looks superficially like an "8", which can be easily mistaken with a "B" at first glance. So, indeed it might really just read "Thebariei".

we have here Italic, Slavic, Greek, Albanian people...
I am sure we can find many Etruscan words in combination of those vocabularies....

No offense, but you might as well search for Etruscan words in Quechua or Nahuatl...

Greek is a special case, since the Greeks and Etruscans were in contact with each other, and it's certainly plausible that there are Greek borrowings into Etruscan, but the rest verymuch isn't. The Slavic languages are attested from about half a millennium after Etruscan was extinct, and Albanian is attested from almost one and a half millennia after the extinction of Etruscan, so it would be quite folly to search in either languages (or language family, in the case of the former) for any cognates.

What I wonder is, why does (almost) everybody in this thread assume that Etruscan MUST be an Indo-European language while it is very obvious that it fundamentally isn't? I mean, I demonstrated on several occasions that Etruscan has quite a few borrowings from Indo-European languages (then again, so does it from Semitic languages!), but the underlying grammatical structure and phonemic inventory is non-Indo-European.

 

[how yes no 2]

Greek is a special case, since the Greeks and Etruscans were in contact with each other, and it's certainly plausible that there are Greek borrowings into Etruscan, but the rest verymuch isn't. The Slavic languages are attested from about half a millennium after Etruscan was extinct, and Albanian is attested from almost one and a half millennia after the extinction of Etruscan, so it would be quite folly to search in either languages (or language family, in the case of the former) for any cognates.

italic - because Etruscans lived among italic people and probably assimilated many... and because later Etruscans were assimilating in italic people which must have led to some words being incorporated in italian language...
Greek - as Greek are their neighbours in both Lydia and in Italy with colonies...also because Etruscans were probably related to Minoans and those were incorporated in Greeks...
Slavic - because of R1a
Serbian - because of sharing some tribal names, and because of I2a(1) of nearby Sardinains
Albanians - because of J2 component in genetics that is strong in Tosks, and also because tribal name Tosk might have same origin as Tuscany
Anatolians - because obviously Etruscans origin from Lydia in today Turkey...

language that is attested only recently might have existed much before and also may lean on many words that existed much before...

What I wonder is, why does (almost) everybody in this thread assume that Etruscan MUST be an Indo-European language while it is very obvious that it fundamentally isn't? I mean, I demonstrated on several occasions that Etruscan has quite a few borrowings from Indo-European languages (then again, so does it from Semitic languages!), but the underlying grammatical structure and phonemic inventory is non-Indo-European.

nope, thing is that all Indo-European languages also have many words that are not of Indo-European origin... I have explained above why I expect that the enumerated languages will have some words shared with Etruscans...