Etruscans=Illyrians=Pelasgi //// tuscans=albanians ?????

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thefariei Welianas sal cluwenias turuce.
Tiberius Welianas (or "Tiberius of Welian") has given (the) pleasing (of) shrine

in serbian:
"Tiberije Velianac salu čuveno/slavno darivaše"
would mean

Tiberius from Wellia(n) has given gift to hall/chamber in glorious way (gloriously).


Thefariei (name - "Tiberius" in Latin, spelled "TBRY´" in Phoenician)
Welian (name)
-as (genitive particle)

-ac is in Serbia
e.g. John Britanac = John from Britain
Iranac = man from Iran
Avganistanac = man from Afghanistan

man from Velia (no "w" in our alphabet, but w from above is trancsripted as "v")
would be Velianac

man from Wallonnia would be "Valonac"


sal (pleasing)

cluwenia (shrine)
-s (genitive particle)
I think you got word order wrong... Phoeniocans might have adapted word order to their language...

"sal" would map to serbian (IE word I assume) "sala" - hall, chamber

cluwenia - would map to serbian/slavic "čuveno/slavno"
čuveno" = famous
"slava" = glorious (also proposed origin of tribal name Slavic)
"slavno" = gloriously

same word is attested in Illyrian language in form
cleves- (famous)
http://www.wordgumbo.com/ie/cmp/illy.htm


in Serbian ending depends on the gender of what we talk about
čuven/slavan - when talking about masculine noun
čuveno/slavno - when talking about neuter noun
čuvena/slavna - when talking about feminine noun

but this is not about noun, but describing the verb...
"čuveno/slavno" would be used...


turuce
Tur- (to give)
-u- (resultative particle)
-ce (imperfect particle)
(in combination "he/she/it has given")

serbian
"dar" = present
"darovati" = to give present (infinitive)
"darivao"/"darovao" - perfect / simple past tense (for 3rd person singular)
"darivaše" - would be Imperfect past tense (for 3rd person singular) - it is a bit archaic form of past tense though..I would not use it in everyday speech
"daruje" - present tense

"darovaće"/"darivaće" - would be future tense (for 3rd person singular)

so, this "turuce" looks a bit as a future tense to me... or as a misspelled present tense


note that "tmia" was mapped to "dom"
and "tur" is mapped to "dar"
 
Are you sure? it is correct?

99.99% of words are equal Latin,

the site you post if is correct just say Etruscan were latins

watch the
http://www.maravot.com/Indo-European_Table1A.1.html

all Etruscan with Latin have no difference almost,

I still don't get zanipolo, Etruscans were IE cause that is what that table I link above,
just compair the Latin with the Etruscan

simply another fake site for me,



!!!!!!!!!

you do realise that the etruscan lands where 20 times greater than the land of the latins, the people numbered 2M , which was 10 times more than the latins.
latin could have gathered etruscan words is more likely, because the greater the population the more your language becomes the "lingua franca" ( language of commerce)

Today english is th e"lingua franca" of the world
 
you do realise that the etruscan lands where 20 times greater than the land of the latins, the people numbered 2M , which was 10 times more than the latins.
latin could have gathered etruscan words is more likely, because the greater the population the more your language becomes the "lingua franca" ( language of commerce)

Today english is th e"lingua franca" of the world


yes I do realize, but if the table is correct then what NO IE etruscan???

then Etruscan is IE

if I find connection of Etruscan with Latin 99,99% with Albanian 85% with Greek 75% with Serbian 70% with Sanshqrit (or whatever) 80% then about what semitic language of Etruscans,
ok Latins imported words from Etruscan but Sanshkrit (or whatever) from India???
Are you sure that the table i link about, from your post's link, is checked?

cause ok with latin, but with Santa clauss (or whatever) what connections had with the Etruscans, to share language of a Non IE with an IE as Sauce Kebap (or whatever) were,

whatever :rolleyes:
 
yes I do realize, but if the table is correct then what NO IE etruscan???

then Etruscan is IE

if I find connection of Etruscan with Latin 99,99% with Albanian 85% with Greek 75% with Serbian 70% with Sanshqrit (or whatever) 80% then about what semitic language of Etruscans,
ok Latins imported words from Etruscan but Sanshkrit (or whatever) from India???
Are you sure that the table i link about, from your post's link, is checked?

cause ok with latin, but with Santa clauss (or whatever) what connections had the Etruscans, to share language of a Non IE with an IE as Santa Grettans (or whatever) were,

whatever :rolleyes:

the question you need to ask is who are the latins, where did they come from, because in ancient greek, the only language in italy was umbro-oscan. the only area the greeks called Italy ( greek word) did not include the latins, etruscans, veneti or the sicels ( sicilians)
Find who the latins are , then that will find you the etruscan language
 
the question you need to ask is who are the latins, where did they come from, because in ancient greek, the only language in italy was umbro-oscan. the only area the greeks called Italy ( greek word) did not include the latins, etruscans, veneti or the sicels ( sicilians)
Find who the latins are , then that will find you the etruscan language


ok Iwil repeat my shelf,
Etruscans pass from Greece gave marks to Greek,
pass Albania gave Marks,
Lived next to Latins gave marks,

But connection of Etruscan with [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Sanskrit
[/FONT]
But connection of Etruscan with [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Avestan & Armenian[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

[/FONT]even with Welsh and Hettit [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]!!!!!!!!!
[/FONT]Then WTF Semitic non IE language !!!![FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

[/FONT]that is what i ment Zanipolo, if more than half language roots are in IE then WTF non IE language,
that is my problem, and not who converted who Latins or Etruscans.

offcourse the case of Creole language with IE but then why to compare with rest IE and not with Rest semitic,

ok maybe I am retard, But how can i quess that is correct when all the Etruscan in table is IE,
and in these thread most agree that is NO IE :confused: :confused:
I am interesting (personaly and believe most here in the vocabulary of early non IE Etruscans, if I have the vocabulary that today exist in Etruria then what .....

ty[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

[/FONT]
 
ok Iwil repeat my shelf,
Etruscans pass from Greece gave marks to Greek,
pass Albania gave Marks,
Lived next to Latins gave marks,

But connection of Etruscan with [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Sanskrit
[/FONT]
But connection of Etruscan with [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Avestan & Armenian[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

[/FONT]even with Welsh and Hettit [FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]!!!!!!!!!
[/FONT]Then WTF Semitic non IE language !!!![FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

[/FONT]that is what i ment Zanipolo, if more than half language roots are in IE then WTF non IE language,
that is my problem, and not who converted who Latins or Etruscans.

offcourse the case of Creole language with IE but then why to compare with rest IE and not with Rest semitic,

ok maybe I am retard, But how can i quess that is correct when all the Etruscan in table is IE,
and in these thread most agree that is NO IE :confused: :confused:
I am interesting (personaly and believe most here in the vocabulary of early non IE Etruscans, if I have the vocabulary that today exist in Etruria then what .....

ty[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]

[/FONT]


Let us look at this logically.

The latins say they come from Aeneas and the trojans.
Actually Aeneas was a Dardanian

The trojans spoke an anatolian language - Luwian
The thracians and paphlogians spoke Luwian

Did the Maeonians ( Lydians ) , speak Luwian. If they did and they became the Etruscans and they migrated in the great migration of 1100BC to Italy, then its logical to say that both etruscan and trojan ( latins) spoke a similar anatolian language.

If its similar at that time it would be similar 500 years later.
 
Kaplan Resuli, a quotable linguist!

lets see the Greek in ancient how will be

MEGO DONASTO RETIAI

EGO EDOKA TΙ REITIA
ΕΓΩ ΕΔΩΚΑ τηι Ρεiτιa ορ ΕΓΩ ΕΔΩΚΑ REITΙΗι (ι is underline Dotiki)
virb Dino Διδ-ω ->Δινω = give in past e-dosa Εδωσα

the funny is that Reitia-ι takes a ι, υπογεγραμμενη Underlined ι, which is only in giving in Greek,
and today in modern is suspended

so Veneti follow part of Greek Grammar?

where has its roots?

I mean in English is give
in German is geben
in Italian is Dare
in Albanian is jap
in Serbian is дати Dati
in Bulgarian is дава Daba
in Catalunia is Donar

seems like clear IE to me the Greco-Roman but is it a proof or an evidence


Now about 100 men

how many where sea people?
how many R1a or R1b in Greece that is not later romano-celtic - latin speaking,
much of R1b is western brought by Romans, and parts of R1a could be medieval slavic or Turkish.
how many R1a in south Balkans?
yet Greeks speak IE and south slavic are connected with Baltic (although I don't agree)
how many Greeks travel with ships to establsh a colony????? (millions?)
it is estimated that many Greek colonies were established by less than 2000 men
Sinope was a small city-colony, but create Trebizond Empire
Besides Etruscans means same with troy Troia, Tyris-intha (o+y = u in Greek)
En-troy-cani ->Etroycanoi ->etrucans
means Trojer people ->tower building people, city walls people, castle people

I read a book about Delphi oracles, 14 ships estimation of about 50 population was to build Phasis in Georgia
yes only 700 people, later much more came,

how many ships had Colombus the 6th fleet? or the spanish armada?







Now about Albanians I have wrote many posts

1rst Illyria and Illyricum

for ancient Greeks Illyria is the area that later known as Illyria proprie Dicti

Pliny (23–79 AD) writes that the people that formed the nucleus of the Illyrian kingdom were 'Illyrians proper' or Illyrii Proprie Dicti.[17] They were the Taulantii, the Pleraei, the Endirudini, Sasaei, Grabaei and the Labeatae. These later joined to form the Docleatae.

The roman province of Illyricum

Province_of_Illyricum.png


As you see it is not the same


about language connections of ancient Illyria

to understand that we must understand the Pelasgians,
Pelasgians were Around Aegean and cyprus, probably Anatolian or Levant,

Cadmus was the first to settle in Continent that was dwell that times by thracians (Greek Theba),

Cadmus son Illyros invade Illyria who was habited by Celts,

Pelasgian culture includes Cyclades, Minoan, Troy, pre Greek, Thyrrenian, Ionic-Athenean, Phillistines, Cyprus cultures,

Pelasgian system was city states, and mainly were Naval people,

there are 3 names of pre-Greeks the Lellekes the Pelasgians and the Driopes
the last the Driopes are considered IE

Pelasgian Gods in Greek Thogony

Pontus (sea and bottom) later remained as PUdna Πυδνα in Makedonian and Πυθμεν in Greek
while the IE word is Βυθος Buthos - Bottom
Iapetos the name of Japeth,
Erebos the dark (semitic Erebu, Illyrian Erevet)
Kawir Καβηροι
Hekate Εκατη from Egyptian Ka = soul
Hera from Pelasgian godess Eorda or Arda
Athena from Egyptian Neith
Oceanus Ωκεανος
Carnios Kreios Καρνιος Κριος
Gyges Γυγης Lydian-Anatolian name
Thaleia Θαλεια

etc

Pelasgian toponyms

Parnassus -> from pharm and -issa
Pharm in the Pelasgian ment house Parn
Parnassus means fortified houses

Thera island (warm island) simmilar Thyrrenian or comes from trojer troyan->tower city



other Pelasgian words

neo ναιω = Ι flow, ναιας a ship (remember Noah)
the IE word in Greek is pleo Πλεω flow->plow-> pleo

La the stone
Lavrys -Λαβρυς the hammer to stimulate stones
Labirynth Λαβιρυνθος the stone mine
Etruscan LA-pis

Ζεω and Ζω
Ζεω means I am warm
Zω means I am warm as an alive should be

κωνος the pyramid but also the city
Ko+no+sso = Knossos (minoan city)
Mu +ko+no = Mycenae (1 mu = Homo, the city of Humans?? 2 Mu = ομου together the city where all lived together?) or there was a tribe named My (My-cenae , My-ssian, My-Nians or Mi-noans, Moe-ssians, Ma-kedonians,)

Greek Γοης -Γοησσα (fem) desirable, very pretty, unresistable
Turkish -anat Guzzell Beautifull, fine
Italian Gusto

there are a lot of works that is connecting ancient Illyrian (part of Albanian) with Pelasgian and Homeric (non IE words)

for the Celtic Branch
Alb Mire jam = I am Fine
Eng merry I am (merry christmas etc)

alb mire dita
Eng good day

etc

But the case of Modern Albanian, is more complex,

Dienekes and modern linguistic proved that a major devastasion had happened the last 600 years,

modern Albanians are more Transylvanians
the tribe of Albocense
Maximus of Moessia was the first who found them.

for the record of Gennetics

The source for the I2a seems to be either the Albanization of people from the West Balkans and/or selection, although it would be difficult to see a massive increase in frequency in only five centuries. The I2a-deficiency of the Arbereshe also gives support to the theory that the Albanians are relatively recent arrivals from the northeast;

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/07/y-chromosomes-of-arbereshe-from.html


the above as also the linguistic analysis of Gustav-Mayer, Kaplan Rassuli, as also the Historic events
proves that Albanians are a new nation

Historically Illyria is not found elsewhere after Roman occupation,
later at 1040 we found Arbanites from city of Arbanon (not same with albonopolis)
and state of arber of Progon moving south from Dalmatia, and state of Alba of Anju
Anju were Cumans like Hunyadi and had origin city of Alba Lullia in Romania.
the tribe of albocense from Dacia probably moved the last 600-700 years to Illyria,

The conection of modern Albanians with other is just in written words,
modern Albanian is a SATEM language
while ancient Illyrian were Centum, even the Messapic that was adopted later in Illyria,
words like Femia are later with messapic, while words like the word for tribe, for relatives is like Greek-Pelasgic Φυλη fili
the word and simmilarity in written forms of speech is from ancient Illyrian that remained in Modern Albanian language, or from latinization of Moessia at Roman occupation time

Albocense were considered Thracians,
Even today Daci/Gaete and south slavic are not yet clear who is the Thracian language,

Georgiev-Duridanov and Rusu still argue about a latin or a slavic form of ancient Thracian,
a language that have left many words also in Greek language, (if latin-Dacian,) or is the IE branch of Greek Language (if slavic origin)

julia be carefull of Albanian Nationalists, they even claim Goliath was Albanian,

Besides Gorani-Torbesi belong to south slavic population,



I don't know what Has Kapllan Resuli done to be quoted as an expert linguist. Quoting him would just indicate you are not involved in a serious discussion.

Thanks, Bill
 
Lets see the Greek in ancient how will be

MEGO DONASTO RETIAI

EGO EDOKA TΙ REITIA
ΕΓΩ ΕΔΩΚΑ τηι Ρεiτιa ορ ΕΓΩ ΕΔΩΚΑ REITΙΗι (ι is underline Dotiki)
virb Dino Διδ-ω ->Δινω = give in past e-dosa Εδωσα

the funny is that Reitia-ι takes a ι, υπογεγραμμενη Underlined ι, which is only in giving in Greek,
and today in modern is suspended

so Veneti follow part of Greek Grammar?

where has its roots?

I mean in English is give
in German is geben
in Italian is Dare
in Albanian is jap
in Serbian is дати Dati
in Bulgarian is дава Daba
in Catalunia is Donar
In Venet it is Donar.......same as catulunia

to forgive is Perdonar

Whats Greek about it?
 
I think that Albanians are the same nation with Romanians, Beacus i have met many europeans and all of them look different but when i met some Romanians 4-5 months ago they look just like our nation, One day i heard them speaking something and they said a albanian word, Buzët, In Albanian means Lips and they said this word in Romanian , Im so suprised!
 
I think that Albanians are the same nation with Romanians, Beacus i have met many europeans and all of them look different but when i met some Romanians 4-5 months ago they look just like our nation, One day i heard them speaking something and they said a albanian word, Buzët, In Albanian means Lips and they said this word in Romanian , Im so suprised!

Many romanians do look albanians, but it depends on the place of origins.. i don't know.. i think of albanians as more darker than romanians.. but southern romanians (non transylvanians one and non banat one as well as non near ukraine too) are quite dark.
Some albanians tend to have a more squared-robust and well defined face, many albanians ahave convex noses, as well as many romanians..
Both many albanians and many romanians could pass as italians too
 
Yes julia90, it is true that Albanians (especially those Tosk) are very similar to Italians. I have not ever been to Italy but I have met many Italians here in Tirana. To tell the truth, they differ almost not at all by the Albanians, except when speaking. I do not speak Italian and, although I have not studied this language,I am able to understand in a considerable extent, I do not know why. Italians do not understand Albanian. In my opinion, the Albanian language is more akin to the Etruscan. Albanian also stays closer to the Latin than to the Italian language. Somewhere I've read that a large part of the Tosk Albanians are Etruscans which arrived in Albania in the year 167 BC after a fierce Latin-Etruscan war. I do not know if this is true.
As you can see I’m an Etruscan born one :grin: (I’m a Tosk), but Taranis pretends to know Etruscan better than me :mad: Of course he is the best linguist (but the dumb Etruscan) of this forum :LOL:
Now, let me go and “fight” with Taranis.

… there is no evidence whatsoever that Albanian is related with "Pelasgian" (which is very hard to grasp, anyways) or with Tyrrhenian (which would be the Greek word for the Etruscans). I showed very clearly in that other thread that Etruscan was a non-Indo-European language, whereas Albanian verymuch is.
In modern Albanian there are a considerable number of ancient Greek words, especially words that linguists have considered to be Pelasgian.
On the subject of Etruscan, if it is or not an IE language, linguists are divided into two groups, on pros and cons. In fact scholars are now studying new ways of deciphering Etruscan , based mainly in modern Albanian (but also in Latin, Greek and Turkish). The result is expected to appear within a period of 2-3 years.

In my opinion, Albanian is most closest related to the Old Balkan languages (principally Dacian), but it has also borrowings from Greek and Latin.
Albanian continues to be the most less known language by the linguists. Initially it was regarded as a Roman language. Later, linguists have classified it as a special branch of IE languages which has preserved some very interesting characteristics which differs from other European languages. Even some linguists think that Albanian has imposed some of its own characteristics to some other Balkan languages (eg suffixed definite article).
For more see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language

I was always taught that the modern albanians are of dacia stock, basically vlachs.
As for skandenberg, if I recall correctly, he was of a neapolitan family called castrioti , who had ties militarily and by commerce with Naples.
Sorry, all what you've written is ridiculous. You are misinformed!
However, to understand me, I will not use this honorable forum as an efforts arena to “protect” the Albanians and their language.
Albanian has a significant number of cognates with Romanian, specifically words found exclusively in both Albanian and Romanian.
It’s quite true. But it comes against your idea (implied, ‘cause your post comes just after the above zanipolo’s post).
Albanian has a significant number of cognates with Ancient Greek and Latin too.
Words, which does not exist in modern Greek or in modern Latin languages.
Well, try to understand clearly the cause of this phenomenon (considering that Albanian is a special branch in the family of the IE languages).

Let me say this: the Etruscan language is extremely problematic (even people of Antiquity considered the presence of them problematic). There is significant evidence that the Etruscans originated in Anatolia. This is both genetic (there is evidence that Etruscan cattle must have been imported from Anatolia circa 1000-1200 BC, and there was also an article on this posted here in the forum, but I do not have the link right now), and also linguistic, but the Etruscan language in itself is problematic nonetheless.
(bolded by me)
I’ve read this post yesterday.
These are alarming ideas that clearly reflect the true reason why the Etruscan language remains a mystery. The question is that both etruscans and their language are “problematic” simply 'cause they ... came from Anatolia!
The text is quite clear!
Anyone can understand without difficulty that the mystery does not lay in the Etruscan but in it's “problematic" people … originated in Anatolia.
Mysterious is precisely the attitude towards etruscans and therefore to their language too.
So etruscans never deserve to be regarded as the founders of the Western civilization, simply ‘cause they are ... originated in Anatolia!
Sorry Taranis, but this is a pure racism. However, you may be consoled in the fact that you're not alone. This mysterious attitude twards etruscans and their language is really the "official" one, although the mystery has been "academically" transferred to the Etruscan language.
But what if the latins came from Asia Minor too?
May God forbid this hypothesis proved!
 
Yes julia90, it is true that Albanians (especially those Tosk) are very similar to Italians. I have not ever been to Italy but I have met many Italians here in Tirana. To tell the truth, they differ almost not at all by the Albanians, except when speaking. I do not speak Italian and, although I have not studied this language,I am able to understand in a considerable extent, I do not know why. Italians do not understand Albanian. In my opinion, the Albanian language is more akin to the Etruscan. Albanian also stays closer to the Latin than to the Italian language. Somewhere I've read that a large part of the Tosk Albanians are Etruscans which arrived in Albania in the year 167 BC after a fierce Latin-Etruscan war. I do not know if this is true.
As you can see I’m an Etruscan born one :grin: (I’m a Tosk), but Taranis pretends to know Etruscan better than me :mad: Of course he is the best linguist (but the dumb Etruscan) of this forum :LOL:
Now, let me go and “fight” with Taranis.

Where do you take that idea from that the Albanian and Etruscan languages are related? There is absolutely no evidence towards that direction. Albanian and Etruscan can in many ways, especially it's sound inventory, be no more different from each other.

In modern Albanian there are a considerable number of ancient Greek words, especially words that linguists have considered to be Pelasgian.
On the subject of Etruscan, if it is or not an IE language, linguists are divided into two groups, on pros and cons. In fact scholars are now studying new ways of deciphering Etruscan , based mainly in modern Albanian (but also in Latin, Greek and Turkish). The result is expected to appear within a period of 2-3 years.

Sorry, that concept is verymuch doomed. Just take a look at that "magical" translation of the Pyrgi tablet (which is actually extremely demonstrative of the non-Indo-European nature of the Etruscan language, because it's a bilingual text - the other language used is Phoenician, meaning we know the rough content of the Etruscan text). Also, why would anybody use Turkish?! The Turks didn't live anywhere near Italy in the 1st millennium BC - they were not even anywhere even near Anatolia until the end of the 1st millennium AD. You might as well use Quechua or Cherokee for translating Etruscan. :rolleyes:

Albanian continues to be the most less known language by the linguists. Initially it was regarded as a Roman language. Later, linguists have classified it as a special branch of IE languages which has preserved some very interesting characteristics which differs from other European languages. Even some linguists think that Albanian has imposed some of its own characteristics to some other Balkan languages (eg suffixed definite article).
For more see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language

The classification of Albanian as it's own branch of IE makes sense, especially because of the sound laws.

It’s quite true. But it comes against your idea (implied, ‘cause your post comes just after the above zanipolo’s post).
Albanian has a significant number of cognates with Ancient Greek and Latin too.
Words, which does not exist in modern Greek or in modern Latin languages.
Well, try to understand clearly the cause of this phenomenon (considering that Albanian is a special branch in the family of the IE languages).

It's not a contradiction at all. Obviously Romanian is also a Romance language (ie, derived from Latin), but Romanian has vocabulary which isn't found in Latin, but shared with Albanian. Since the Dacians and linguistically related groups (Moesians, Getae) lived in these areas, it stands to reason that this is the source of these words.

Regarding the Greek words, it's also clear that Proto-Albanian (if you want to call it that) must have had contact with early Greek.

(bolded by me)
I’ve read this post yesterday.
These are alarming ideas that clearly reflect the true reason why the Etruscan language remains a mystery. The question is that both etruscans and their language are “problematic” simply 'cause they ... came from Anatolia!

Actually no. If you take a look at what ancient authors thought on the Etruscans, it's quite clear that they thought the same: a language verymuch unlike the languages surrounding it (Italic, Celtic, Ligurian). It's only natural to speculate it might have come from somewhere else? I mean, there is also the possibility of the flip side, namely that Etruscan is a pre-Indo-European language which merely survived the arrival of the Indo-European languages, but evidence does not point into that direction.

The text is quite clear!
Anyone can understand without difficulty that the mystery does not lay in the Etruscan but in it's “problematic" people … originated in Anatolia.
Mysterious is precisely the attitude towards etruscans and therefore to their language too.

These ideas are not "alarming" at all, there is actually a number of evidence that pinpoints in that direction. For one, there is genetic evidence, coming, surprisingly from Etruscan cattle.

There is also linguistic evidence in the Etruscan language itself, specifically it's phonemic inventory. Specifically the usage of an AEIU base vowel system (as opposed to an AEIOU base vowel system), which was also used by Akkadian and Hittite. Now, the languages were obviously unrelated (Akkadian is Semitic, Hittite is Indo-European, specifically of the Anatolian branch), but one explanation is that they were apparently subject to the same areal affect. You also have to consider that Etruscan has a number of Semitic borrowings, for instance the word "Taliθa" (girl). Another very un-Indo-European feature is the fact that Etruscan does not distinguish between voiced and unvoiced plosives (ie, no distinction between B/P, D/T, G/K, respectively), though it does distinct between aspirated and unaspirated plosives (P/Ph, T/Th, K/Kh).

Another link with Anatolia is the existence of the 8-shaped letter for "F" in Etruscan, which it shares with the Lydian alphabet.

So etruscans never deserve to be regarded as the founders of the Western civilization, simply ‘cause they are ... originated in Anatolia!

I did not say that. On the contrary, it's very clear that the Romans borrowed heavily from the Etruscans, in particular culturally. By the way, I think I understand where you want to be going there: you think that Albanians should be regarded as the founders of Western Civilization. Sorry, I have to disappoint you on that ego trip. :useless:

Sorry Taranis, but this is a pure racism. However, you may be consoled in the fact that you're not alone. This mysterious attitude twards etruscans and their language is really the "official" one, although the mystery has been "academically" transferred to the Etruscan language.
But what if the latins came from Asia Minor too?
May God forbid this hypothesis proved!

Racism?! That is an insult, and you will apologize for that.

Regarding the Latins, Latin is obviously an Indo-European language, specifically of the Italic branch (other fairly-well known languages, spoken in ancient Italy before the rise of Rome, were Oscan and Umbrian), and many scholars have suggested a close relationship between the Celtic and the Italic languages - or at the least, a set of common Italo-Celtic innovations - which are absent in other branches of Indo-European.
 
Last edited:
Here is something else to show up the differences between Albanian and Etruscan, specifically the sounds which are encoded or not encoded in the alphabets. I have bolded differences (since you seem to be Albanian, you should know what sounds these encode for in Albanian):

Etruscan

Vowels - AEIU

Consonants:
Nasals - M, N
Plosives - P, Ph, T, Th, K, Kh
Affricate - Ts
Fricatives - F, S, Sh, H
Approximants - L, J, W
Rhotics - R

Albanian

Vowels - AEËIOYU

Consonants:
Nasals - M, N, Nj, Ng
Plosives - P, B, T, D, Q, Gj, K, G
Affricate - C, X, Ç, Xh
Fricatives - F, V(?), Th, Dh, S, Z, Sh, Zh, H
Approximants - L, Ll, J
Rhotics - R, RR

Note that I was merely looking at the phonology here encoded in the writing systems. I'm totally disregarding grammar here, which undoubtably shows that Etruscan was an agglutinative, non-Indo-European language. But, the key point above is, it's impossible to end up with Albanian from the Etruscan language, simply out of the phonological differences. And if there was any relationship, you have absolutely no way to explain how these changes are conditioned (consider that the underlying rule in linguistics is that sound laws have no exceptions - and if they seem to, these too are subject to sound laws).
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Cruciani Cavalli Sforza

Cruciani concluded that the distribution of the E3b1-alpha cluster in Europe indicates a Neolithic or post-Neolithic expansion out of the Balkans into Europe that spread as far west as the Iberian peninsula, and southeast to Turkey. STR diversity analysis gives an estimate of about 8 thousand years ago for that expansion
Nje studim tjeter: Semino: It's interesting to note that another recent study concluded that a J sub-group, J2e1 (J-M102), also expanded into Europe from the Balkans during the Neolithic period. Most likely due to genetic drift, Kosovar Albanians harbor a J2e frequency peak whereas variance maximum declines from the southeastern edge of the studied region

According to Semino: The footprint of J2e1 (M102) on the European map indicates some sort of connection between the southern Balkans and north-central Italy. One possible explanation is that J2e1 may have dispersed into Europe from the Balkans.Some of the highest frequencies that Semino et al saw for J2e1 were Albania (14.3% of total population), north-central Italy (9.6%), Greece (6.5%) Croatia etc Semino et al estimated the date of the M102 mutation at about 8000 years ago."

First of all Albanian and kosovars are the same peoples. The max frequencies of J2e are among Albanians, the some for E3b1. This 2 Haplogroupe are belived to exist there before the Roman arivals.(J2e% + E3b1a% = 16 + 45 = 61%) All this 2 haplogroup have max freq in albanians and this is a sign of distinction from slavs. In 2000 BC there have been different migration in to balkan no one can say there have ben only one haplogroup.


http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/06-02.htm

Illyrians as Dorians
Carleton S. Coon found a connection between the Illyrians and the Dorians based on his anthropological analyses of the Albanian and Montenegrin population as well as the Sfakian population in Crete. Coon discovered that Montenegro and Albania is highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria. Moreover, he discovered that Albanians, Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance, language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders, and vendettas.

too many theories , be it illyrian with doric , illyrian with veneti or others
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Cruciani Cavalli Sforza

Cruciani concluded that the distribution of the E3b1-alpha cluster in Europe indicates a Neolithic or post-Neolithic expansion out of the Balkans into Europe that spread as far west as the Iberian peninsula, and southeast to Turkey. STR diversity analysis gives an estimate of about 8 thousand years ago for that expansion
Nje studim tjeter: Semino: It's interesting to note that another recent study concluded that a J sub-group, J2e1 (J-M102), also expanded into Europe from the Balkans during the Neolithic period. Most likely due to genetic drift, Kosovar Albanians harbor a J2e frequency peak whereas variance maximum declines from the southeastern edge of the studied region

According to Semino: The footprint of J2e1 (M102) on the European map indicates some sort of connection between the southern Balkans and north-central Italy. One possible explanation is that J2e1 may have dispersed into Europe from the Balkans.Some of the highest frequencies that Semino et al saw for J2e1 were Albania (14.3% of total population), north-central Italy (9.6%), Greece (6.5%) Croatia etc Semino et al estimated the date of the M102 mutation at about 8000 years ago."

First of all Albanian and kosovars are the same peoples. The max frequencies of J2e are among Albanians, the some for E3b1. This 2 Haplogroupe are belived to exist there before the Roman arivals.(J2e% + E3b1a% = 16 + 45 = 61%) All this 2 haplogroup have max freq in albanians and this is a sign of distinction from slavs. In 2000 BC there have been different migration in to balkan no one can say there have ben only one haplogroup.


http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/06-02.htm

Illyrians as Dorians
Carleton S. Coon found a connection between the Illyrians and the Dorians based on his anthropological analyses of the Albanian and Montenegrin population as well as the Sfakian population in Crete. Coon discovered that Montenegro and Albania is highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria. Moreover, he discovered that Albanians, Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance, language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders, and vendettas.

too many theories , be it illyrian with doric , illyrian with veneti or others


on the other hand we know that dorians came after sea people at least 300 years after Myceneans,
but we notice the mycenean culture to go North we find Myceneans tombs that go North to Epirus Albania and rich even dalmatia and Istria
some of them are older than 900 BC estimation time of Dorians whose capital was Trikke in Thessaly, and not in Illyria

Dorieis Trichakes from Tricha or Trikke

all the common that you mention can be Mycaneans that moved North
 
on the other hand we know that dorians came after sea people at least 300 years after Myceneans,
but we notice the mycenean culture to go North we find Myceneans tombs that go North to Epirus Albania and rich even dalmatia and Istria
some of them are older than 900 BC estimation time of Dorians whose capital was Trikke in Thessaly, and not in Illyria

Dorieis Trichakes from Tricha or Trikke

all the common that you mention can be Mycaneans that moved North


myceaneans as far as istria can be true especially with the castellieri culture.

when did the mycaneans leave/vanish from argos area?
 
at the time of troy had even reached north Epirus

that is another as the celtic you call Illyrians and I can prove it,

I was reading Igenea on what they call genetic structure of nations ( do not know exactly what they mean ), they stipulated that genetics are grouped in racial groupings...............can anyone explain. example below of there site

Croatia:
illyrians = 34%
Slaves = 20%
Celts = 18%
Teutons = 12% .............i think this means modern germans
Phoenicians = 8%
Hellenes = 8%

Bosnia
illyrians = 40%
Slaves = 15%
Celts = 15%
Teutons = 20% .............i think this means modern germans
Huns = 6%
Thracians = 4%


Albania & Epirus
illyrians = 30%
Slaves = 20%
Thracians = 18%
Vikings = 2% .............strange that norsemen are there ( maybe norman invasion )
Phoenicians = 16%
Hellenes = 14%
 
What is the difference between P-illyrian and Q-illyrian languages. All I can find is that the q-illyrian was in the north while P-illyrian was from montenegro and heading south.

has P-illyrian got greek influence? or doric or ??
 
What is the difference between P-illyrian and Q-illyrian languages. All I can find is that the q-illyrian was in the north while P-illyrian was from montenegro and heading south.

has P-illyrian got greek influence? or doric or ??

You are the first person to ever claim such a distinction. What evidence do you have that such a distinction can be even made from the scarce corpus of Illyrian?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 207145 times.

Back
Top