Etruscans=Illyrians=Pelasgi //// tuscans=albanians ?????

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First, Venetian is a language of Latin origin, even if it's quite different from Italian. Venetian and Italian belong to Romance languages, like French and Spanish; as you should know. Venetians wrote official documents using a mix of Venetian, Latin and Italian (Tuscan). But this is not the point.

I haven't said that Tosco is a pure Venetian word. Tosco is Italian, Spanish, it's a Romance word. And the word tosco derived from Latin tuscus (Umbrian Truscum, Greek Tursenoi) has two different meanings ("Tuscan" and "rude") that share the same root but they were originated in different times and different context. The first meaning is the name of Etruscans (from archaic and classic Latin). The second one was originated much time later in the Vulgar Latin from vicus tuscus, a street in Ancient Rome, at the beginning inhabited by Etruscans. This particular meaning is still alive in Spanish tosco.

Then, there is another word tosco (with the meaning of "poison") but this word is derived from Greek toxicon, that means exactly "poison".

Romagnola? What are you talking about? Why are you reinventing the history of Italian literature? Dante wrote in Tuscan, even if he was in exile in Ravenna. Dante used tosco with two meanings and two different root: tosco derived from Latin tuscus that means "Etruscan" or "modern Tuscans", and the word tosco with the meaning of poison derived form Greek toxicon that means "poison"!

The point is that Albanian word Tosk is a Romance borrowing, it's an EXONYM! The northern Albanians (Gegh) called the southern ones Tosk. This world is surely borrowed from a Romance language with the meaning of "rude". There is no cultural or ethnic connection between Tosk and Tuscans, as there aren't real connections between Albanian and Etruscan language!

Etruscan is agglutinative and probably related to Hurro-Urartian as a part of an Alarodian phylum, together with Northern Caucasian. While Albanian derives from a Paleo-Balkan language. They haven't even a common lexicon!
 
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Etruscan is agglutinative and probably related to Hurro-Urartian as a part of an Alarodian phylum, together with Northern Caucasian. While Albanian derives from a Paleo-Balkan language. They haven't even a common lexicon!

I have my doubts about the validity of the so-called "Alarodian" languages. However, I agree that a relationship between Etruscan and any one of Caucasian language families (in particular Northeast Caucasian, the language family that includes Chechen) has been discussed.
 
Thank you. You're right, it has been discussed but not already proved.

I guess that you agree with me that there is no relationship between Albanian and Etruscan.
 
First, Venetian is a language of Latin origin, even if it's quite different from Italian. Venetian and Italian belong to Romance languages, like French and Spanish; as you should know. Venetians wrote official documents using a mix of Venetian, Latin and Italian (Tuscan). But this is not the point.

I haven't said that Tosco is a pure Venetian word. Tosco is Italian, Spanish, it's a Romance word. And the word tosco derived from Latin tuscus (Umbrian Truscum, Greek Tursenoi) has two different meanings ("Tuscan" and "rude") that share the same root but they were originated in different times and different context. The first meaning is the name of Etruscans (from archaic and classic Latin). The second one was originated much time later in the Vulgar Latin from vicus tuscus, a street in Ancient Rome, at the beginning inhabited by Etruscans. This particular meaning is still alive in Spanish tosco.

Then, there is another word tosco (with the meaning of "poison") but this word is derived from Greek toxicon, that means exactly "poison".

Romagnola? What are you talking about? Why are you reinventing the history of Italian literature? Dante wrote in Tuscan, even if he was in exile in Ravenna. Dante used tosco with two meanings and two different root: tosco derived from Latin tuscus that means "Etruscan" or "modern Tuscans", and the word tosco with the meaning of poison derived form Greek toxicon that means "poison"!

The point is that Albanian word Tosk is a Romance borrowing, it's an EXONYM! The northern Albanians (Gegh) called the southern ones Tosk. This world is surely borrowed from a Romance language with the meaning of "rude". There is no cultural or ethnic connection between Tosk and Tuscans, as there aren't real connections between Albanian and Etruscan language!

Etruscan is agglutinative and probably related to Hurro-Urartian as a part of an Alarodian phylum, together with Northern Caucasian. While Albanian derives from a Paleo-Balkan language. They haven't even a common lexicon!

I found this tosco word yesterday it derived from Latin word....Vicus Tuscas which the spanish converted to Tosco.
It means vulgar

On Dante, he did not speak tuscan as there was no tuscan, he spoke Florentine and not the other tuscan languages of lucchese or siennese or any others.
Florentine and lucchese are still spoken in their relative areas. Actually my auntie can speak lucchese as she married a man from Lucca.
 
On Dante, he did not speak tuscan as there was no tuscan, he spoke Florentine and not the other tuscan languages of lucchese or siennese or any others.
Florentine and lucchese are still spoken in their relative areas. Actually my auntie can speak lucchese as she married a man from Lucca.

Tosco (meaning "rude") is STILL preserved in Spanish. But Tosco (meaning "rude") was originated in Vulgar Latin from Vicus Tuscus in the late Roman Empire. Tuscus meaning "rude" is Vulgar Latin, afterwards Tosco became a ROMANCE word. While Tuscus meaning "Etruscan" is Early Latin or Archaic Latin. Do you really understand what i mean? I guess no.

Please, what are you still talking about? Medieval Tuscan didn't exist??? Medieval Florentine is just a variety of medieval Tuscan language, we are talking about varietes of one language, not about separated languages. As we all should know, Florentine became the prominent variety in Tuscany. But there were few differences among all varietes, especially in written language.

Medieval Pisan was also a Tuscan language. Corsica was under Pisan influence in early medieval times. Corsican language is considered a Romance language derived from medieval Tuscan. So Pisans didn't speak or write Tuscan? Before Dante was born, a Tuscan language already existed! Tuscany was an autonomous and political entity in Etruscan times (Etruria), Roman Times (Etruria region), in Lombard-Longobards times (Ducato di Tuscia, capital was Lucca), Carolingian times (Margraviate of Tuscany, capital was still Lucca)... March of Tuscany ended around 1000 A.D. when Ugo the great died in Pistoia. Ugo has moved the capital in late period from Lucca to Firenze.

Dante Alighieri (born in Florence), Francesco Petrarca (born in Arezzo), Giovanni Boccaccio (born in Certaldo, Valdelsa), Guittone d'Arezzo (born in Arezzo), Cecco Angiolieri (born in Siena) are all Tuscan writers or poets.

Lucchese, Senese, Pisano, Aretino, Fiorentino, Livornese are the MODERN variants, you are making a lot of confusion. Modern Tuscan is divided into three varieties with minor differences among them:

Northern-Eastern Tuscan dialects: Fiorentino, Pratese, Pistoiese. Someone call them simply "florentine".
Northern-Western dialects: Pisano-Livornese, Lucchese, Versiliese.
Southern Tuscan dialects: Senese, Grossetano, Aretino, Aretino-Chianaiolo.

Then there are "Valdelsano", a transitional dialect between Fiorentino and Senese, "Volterrano" a transitional dialect between Pisan and Senese with many elements from Fiorentino, and other transitional dialects. But they are all modern Tuscan varieties, of a unique language.
 
i agree with you on the part of the traduction, thought alabanians are genetically similar with egeo-mediterranean people of south east europe, italy too, and people of northern balkans.

Alabanians, at least thosei see in italy don't look central european, at least like italians don't look central european too.

you can see it here, albanians are near southern italians, greeks, makedonians and bulgarians
View attachment 5328

the balkans who can be more near to central europeans, are some bosnians, slovenians and croatians.
Serbs are like northern italians, protending more to central europe, but still southern europeans

Julia90, i start thinking that you are not really from Tuscany. Albanians genetically are more similar to some Greek population and to some southern Italians, but Tuscans are more similar to northern Italians.
 
Well let me me inform you all that the word Tosk exist in some Greek sur-names,
in Arvanto-Vlachs, Moschopolis becomes Tokas
and in Moesian-Vlachs becomes Tositsas (Tosic)
while it does not exist in Kutsuk-Vlachs
 
he spoke Florentine and not the other tuscan languages of lucchese or siennese or any others.
Florentine and lucchese are still spoken in their relative areas. Actually my auntie can speak lucchese as she married a man from Lucca.

well, but Lucchese and Fiorentino, i can tell you have very slight different intonation, someone from another region outside tuscany would say they are the same accent and wouldn't tell apart them
 
Please, what are you still talking about? Medieval Tuscan didn't exist??? Medieval Florentine is just a variety of medieval Tuscan language, we are talking about varietes of one language, not about separated languages. As we all should know, Florentine became the prominent variety in Tuscany. But there were few differences among all varietes, especially in written language.

Medieval Pisan was also a Tuscan language. Corsica was under Pisan influence in early medieval times. Corsican language is considered a Romance language derived from medieval Tuscan. So Pisans didn't speak or write Tuscan? Before Dante was born, a Tuscan language already existed! Tuscany was an autonomous and political entity in Etruscan times (Etruria), Roman Times (Etruria region), in Lombard-Longobards times (Ducato di Tuscia, capital was Lucca), Carolingian times (Margraviate of Tuscany, capital was still Lucca)... March of Tuscany ended around 1000 A.D. when Ugo the great died in Pistoia. Ugo has moved the capital in late period from Lucca to Firenze.

Dante Alighieri (born in Florence), Francesco Petrarca (born in Arezzo), Giovanni Boccaccio (born in Certaldo, Valdelsa), Guittone d'Arezzo (born in Arezzo), Cecco Angiolieri (born in Siena) are all Tuscan writers or poets.

Lucchese, Senese, Pisano, Aretino, Fiorentino, Livornese are the MODERN variants, you are making a lot of confusion. Modern Tuscan is divided into three varieties with minor differences among them:

Northern-Eastern Tuscan dialects: Fiorentino, Pratese, Pistoiese. Someone call them simply "florentine".
Northern-Western dialects: Pisano-Livornese, Lucchese, Versiliese.
Southern Tuscan dialects: Senese, Grossetano, Aretino, Aretino-Chianaiolo.

Then there are "Valdelsano", a transitional dialect between Fiorentino and Senese, "Volterrano" a transitional dialect between Pisan and Senese with many elements from Fiorentino, and other transitional dialects. But they are all modern Tuscan varieties, of a unique language.

I would put senese under the same intonation of florentine, it has very slight subtle differences, someone says they speak with a kind of "mannerism" and kindness, if compared expecially with pratese, that is rude on mannerism
 
Julia90, i start thinking that you are not really from Tuscany. Albanians genetically are more similar to some Greek population and to some southern Italians, but Tuscans are more similar to northern Italians.

well, i would say that jenerally i can recognize well albanians here in italy, but they fit well at least here in tuscany and in all italy.
Might i ask you if you have tuscan origins? Maybe you are corsican.
I find your posts quite useful, in the pat of the tosco ancient meaning
 
Tosco (meaning "rude") is STILL preserved in Spanish. But Tosco (meaning "rude") was originated in Vulgar Latin from Vicus Tuscus in the late Roman Empire. Tuscus meaning "rude" is Vulgar Latin, afterwards Tosco became a ROMANCE word. While Tuscus meaning "Etruscan" is Early Latin or Archaic Latin. Do you really understand what i mean? I guess no.

Please, what are you still talking about? Medieval Tuscan didn't exist??? Medieval Florentine is just a variety of medieval Tuscan language, we are talking about varietes of one language, not about separated languages. As we all should know, Florentine became the prominent variety in Tuscany. But there were few differences among all varietes, especially in written language.

we agree on tosco, either rude or vulgar matters little, its not what others say in regards to albanian tosk.

Romangnola language - Dante wrote ( Ca' de Ven' " [the 'house of wine' in Romagnola dialect])

http://italian.about.com/gi/o.htm?z...1&zu=http://sergiodirio.altervista.org/gugol/
google in Romagnola-Bolognese language

http://italian.about.com/gi/o.htm?z...s=1&zu=http://www.comune.bologna.it/bulgnais/

[h=2]Il sito de "Al Tréb dal Tridèl"[/h] CENACOLO DI CULTURA DIALETTALE FERRARESE

http://italian.about.com/od/emilianoromagnolo/a/aa102809a.htm


all bracketed under Romagnola
 
we agree on tosco, either rude or vulgar matters little, its not what others say in regards to albanian tosk.


Interesting so the name Tosca the famous Opera is about a rude girl? :grin:


(y)
 
As i told you in an older message, there is no connection between Toskë and Tuscans.
The names Tuscany, Tuscans, Etruscans derive form Latin word tuscus (probably from TUR, a root of Anatolian or Lydian origin. Greek Tursenoi/Tyrsēnoi/Tyrrēnoi, English Tyrrhens). Tuscus is not an Etruscan word, it's an exonym. Etruscans called themselves Rasna or Rasenna, not Tusci.
The Albanian name Tosk is an exonym (Albanian toskë) and it was borrowed from Italian (through the Venetian?) tosko or tosco that means "rough, crude", the same of Spanish adjective of Latin origin "Tosco" that means "crude, rough, coarse; raw; uncouth; clumsy". Italian and Spanish "Tosco" derive from Latin Tuscus and had two different meanings, although both share same root. The first meaning, the original one, is "Tuscan" (Etruscan-Tuscan);
In my opinion, Latin “Tuscus” is borrowed from Pelasgian (Etruscan) “Tusc” that means “oak”; in modern Albanian “dushk” (oak) and in modern Greek “δρυς” (oak). The “Tusc” was considered a Holy Tree and worshiped by pelasgians, that’s why they’re called Tuscan (whose wordroot survives in modern Albanian dushk) or “Etruscan” (whose wordroot survives in modern Greek δρυς).
Remember the Dodona’s Holy Oak.
Because of them, this tree has been worshiped by some other peoples too.
 
In my opinion, Latin “Tuscus” is borrowed from Pelasgian (Etruscan) “Tusc” that means “oak”; in modern Albanian “dushk” (oak) and in modern Greek “δρυς” (oak). The “Tusc” was considered a Holy Tree and worshiped by pelasgians, that’s why they’re called Tuscan (whose wordroot survives in modern Albanian dushk) or “Etruscan” (whose wordroot survives in modern Greek δρυς).
Remember the Dodona’s Holy Oak.
Because of them, this tree has been worshiped by some other peoples too.

I think that δρυς religion as Zeus holy tree etc is clear IE and maybe is connected with Driopes people (druids)
a clear IE tribe,
if we connect Etruscans with IE then the whole connection with Pelasgians collapse
 
In my opinion, Latin “Tuscus” is borrowed from Pelasgian (Etruscan) “Tusc” that means “oak”; in modern Albanian “dushk” (oak) and in modern Greek “δρυς” (oak). The “Tusc” was considered a Holy Tree and worshiped by pelasgians, that’s why they’re called Tuscan (whose wordroot survives in modern Albanian dushk) or “Etruscan” (whose wordroot survives in modern Greek δρυς).
Remember the Dodona’s Holy Oak.
Because of them, this tree has been worshiped by some other peoples too.

Hal Fao, stop posting your ridiculous nationalist fantasies about the Etruscans and Pelasgians. I've warned you before: you're seriously running out of time now.

Greek "drus" is clearly Indo-European and has cognates in other branches:

Celtic: "druid" (Proto-Celtic *druwits), Old Irish "dair", Welsh "dar" (which both mean "oak")

Latin "durus" (hard)

Germanic: English "tree"

Albanian "dru"

Slavic: Russian "derevo" ("tree")

Indo-Iranic: Sanskrit "daru" ("timber", "wood").

This is clearly a different from "Tusci"/"Etrusci". The so-called 'etymologies' and "magic dismantlements" that you have posted here in the past have no sort of regularity behind them and they do not stand up to scientific scrutiny. They only serve one goal: to paint (and spread) your own revisionist fantasy image about the Albanian language and about the Albanians as the 'true founders of civilization'. There is no room for such an agenda here on Eupedia.
 
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Romangnola language - Dante wrote ( Ca' de Ven' " [the 'house of wine' in Romagnola dialect])


Romagnolo, not Romagnola. Dialect is masculine in Italian. In Italian: dialetto Romagnolo. Romagnolo dialect.

Please, can you tell me the exact Divina Commedia's canto where Dante writes "Ca' de Ven"?
 
Romagnolo, not Romagnola. Dialect is masculine in Italian. In Italian: dialetto Romagnolo. Romagnolo dialect.

Please, can you tell me the exact Divina Commedia's canto where Dante writes "Ca' de Ven"?

Actually the correct term is Romagnol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romagnol_language

people call it what they like , like the book below
http://books.google.com.au/books/about/Toponomastica_romagnola.html?id=6wZZAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

Italians , like all the other races that annex another race/tribe/culture convert names of people towns, history etc etc

They even convert meanings of words of writers like Dante in his word of Bordelo, which as he wrote and in the venetian language means, uproar, noisy and not what later Italians converted to mean a brothel.
How can you even find the truth in all this nationalistic propaganda.?
 
Actually the correct term is Romagnol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romagnol_language

people call it what they like , like the book below
http://books.google.com.au/books/about/Toponomastica_romagnola.html?id=6wZZAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y

Italians , like all the other races that annex another race/tribe/culture convert names of people towns, history etc etc

They even convert meanings of words of writers like Dante in his word of Bordelo, which as he wrote and in the venetian language means, uproar, noisy and not what later Italians converted to mean a brothel.
How can you even find the truth in all this nationalistic propaganda.?

Zanipolo, what are you still talking about? I'm FRENCH, and i'm studying Romance languages, Italian and Spanish Literature and Culture! Nationalistic propaganda? Are YOU so sure not be influenced by Venetian propaganda or Liga Veneta or Lega Nord propaganda?

I invite you to show REAL and NEUTRAL sources to support your Unscientific Statements.


Romagnolo is Italian. Can you read Italian?
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialetto_romagnolo

Just some questions. What's your real mother tongue? English? Where have you studied? In Australia? Are you the son or grandson of Venet immigrants in Australia?
 
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In my opinion, Latin “Tuscus” is borrowed from Pelasgian (Etruscan) “Tusc” that means “oak”; in modern Albanian “dushk” (oak) and in modern Greek “δρυς” (oak). The “Tusc” was considered a Holy Tree and worshiped by pelasgians, that’s why they’re called Tuscan (whose wordroot survives in modern Albanian dushk) or “Etruscan” (whose wordroot survives in modern Greek δρυς).
Remember the Dodona’s Holy Oak.
Because of them, this tree has been worshiped by some other peoples too.

This is Pan-Albanism, pure Albanian nationalistic propaganda.
 
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