Y-DNA Haplogroups in Iraqi Kurdistan

In a sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds included):
P1 (R2a)= 6.1%
P* (Q?)= 5.3%
F (F*,J1 or H)= 10.5%
Now since haplogroup H is only 1-2% in Kurds I assume that the rest is J1 and it is around 10% so your statement that Kurds have only 4-5% of J1 is wrong eitherway.
 
well than i apologize for what some Kurdish groups did in interests of others.. And i am also sorry for what happened to the native Armenians. Even if some Groups among them behaved in a too nationalistic way the civilians did not deserve to be slaughtered but this unfortunately is how the world sometimes works. The innocent People pay for their leaders mistakes.

in fact I believe that Kurdish people without offense have just few years (20-30) of realizing their nationality, and politic systems,

No need to apologise for anyone, it was the time's system and way of life, i can not expand farther cause then it will religious,
simply some go to heaven by being nice to other persons, and others by killing.
it was logical since mountain poor people many times need to move or to fight for income, and the religious connection among kurds and Turks was stronger,
I believe that still kurds are divided to phatrias and sometime fight among them, but they are more open minded, since the last years they can elect some politicians and can take part in the common of the state.
the rest is up to them and their 'common'
same thing could happened different if war went different,so no need to apologise, just think and realise what I am talking (divided phatrias)
 
In a sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds include:
P1 (R2a)= 6.1%
P* (Q?)= 5.3%
F (F*,J1 or H)= 10.5%
Now since haplogroup H is only 1-2% in Kurds I assume that the rest is J1 and it is around 10% so your statement that Kurds have only 4-5% of J1 is wrong eitherway.
No, Kurds have no Q nor N!

Kurdish P is P-M45. P-M45 can be Q or R, but Kurdish P-M45 is more likely R1-something, because they didn't find any Q in Kurds. http://www.zazaki.org/files/Kurds.pdf ---} Kurdish P = P-M45.

Kurdish F* is an archaic F-M89. F-M89 is in fact an error sign and can be everything. But Kurdish F-M89 is more likely I2a, J2, G2a or R-something (most common haplogroups among Kurds) . http://www.jogg.info/12/Pitfalls.pdf ---} everything about F-M89.

http://www.zazaki.org/files/Kurds.pdf


Of course have Kurds some J1. I believe they have that from the Akkadians (Assyrians), Babylonians (Chaldeans) and Jews. These folks are Southern Mesopotamians or Northern Semites! Kurds have been living next to them for millennia. Northern Semites were the civilization builders, great folks!

According many people only some J1 types are Semitic / Afro-Asiatic. And J1 is very common in the Caucasus. But I think that all types of J1 and E are Semitic / Afro-Asiatic.

Northern Kurds don't have so much J1, so I think that southern Kurds have J1 from the northern Semites (southern Mesopotamians) and not from the people of Caucasus.
Kurds have less J2+J1+E than the Greeks do. And Kurds do also have more I(2a).
Greeks are more mixed with the Semitic sea people and Semitic Levantines than Kurds with the southern Mesopotamian northern Semites.
 
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No, Kurds have no Q nor N!

Kurdish P is P-M45. P-M45 can be Q or R, but Kurdish P-M45 is more likely R1-something, because they didn't find any Q in Kurds. http://www.zazaki.org/files/Kurds.pdf ---} Kurdish P = P-M45.

Kurdish F* is an archaic F-M89. F-M89 is in fact an error sign and can be everything. But Kurdish F-M89 is more likely I2a, J2, G2a or R-something (most common haplogroups among Kurds) . http://www.jogg.info/12/Pitfalls.pdf ---} everything about F-M89.

http://www.zazaki.org/files/Kurds.pdf


Of course have Kurds some J1. I believe they have that from the Akkadians (Assyrians), Babylonians (Chaldeans) and Jews. These folks are Southern Mesopotamians or Northern Semites! Kurds have been living next to them for millennia. Northern Semites were the civilization builders, great folks!

According many people only some J1 types are Semitic / Afro-Asiatic. And J1 is very common in the Caucasus. But I think that all types of J1 and E are Semitic / Afro-Asiatic.

Northern Kurds don't have so much J1, so I think that southern Kurds have J1 from the northern Semites (southern Mesopotamians) and not from the people of Caucasus.
Kurds have less J2+J1+E than the Greeks do. And Kurds do also have more I(2a).
Greeks are more mixed with the Semitic sea people and Semitic Levantines than Kurds with the southern Mesopotamian northern Semites.
The Sea People could be everything but Semites, most propably they where Greek and Anatolian peoples. J2 is not Semitic since the original Semites (Arabs) have very little J2 while Indo-European peoples (Indo-Iranians, Greeks, Anatolians, Italians) have a lot. The only subclade of E that is related to Semites is E-M123. But anyway I think that haplogroups are not exclusive to any ancient population so you can't say that J1 is Semitic or R1 is Indo-European, you can only connect haplogroups with geographic areas.
 
Haplogroup P-M45 is definetely not R1 in Kurds because R1 was tested in the same paper so it is either P* or Q
 
In a sample of 114 Kurds from Turkey (Zaza and Kurmanji Kurds included):
P1 (R2a)= 6.1%
P* (Q?)= 5.3%
F (F*,J1 or H)= 10.5%
Now since haplogroup H is only 1-2% in Kurds I assume that the rest is J1 and it is around 10% so your statement that Kurds have only 4-5% of J1 is wrong eitherway.

It makes no sense to go on explaining you something while you have no interests in understanding it. F* is the father of all known Caucasian Haplogroups ( I, J, T, G, R, L, N, Q...) And you assume that F* has to be J1 because... exactly because of what?

While the F segments among Kurds are most probably some R and I,J* types you assume of course that the 10,5% F* among Kurds can only be 1-2% H (surprise a Sinti-Roma Haplogroup) and J1. This is pure provocation not more.
 
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It makes no sense to go on explaining you something for what your logic seems not enough. F* is the father of all known Caucasian Haplogroups ( I, J, T, G, R, L, N, Q...) And you assume that F* has to be J1 because... exactly because of what?

While the F segments among Kurds are most probably some R and I,J* types you assume of course that the 10,5% F* among Kurds can only be 1-2% H (surprise a Gypsy Haplogroup) and J1. This is pure provocation not more.
Dear friend I have nothing against Kurds. I assume that F* is either J1 or H because J2,I,G and K* were tested so F* must be J1, H or paragroup F. The same applies for haplogroup P*.
 
Dear friend I have nothing against Kurds. I assume that F* is either J1 or H because J2,I,G and K* were tested so F* must be J1, H or paragroup F. The same applies for haplogroup P*.

This is not True Nasidze has tested J1 among all of his Studies so far why shouldnt he do this on the kurdish samples too?
And who tells you that if a Haplogroup already was tested, that the other F segments cant come out as G, J2 I or K*? I have never heard about such a rule could you please provide some sources for this "fact"?. Even if we assume this is the case still some subclades of G and I were not tested like G*. I have seen a Kurd with I1a on the net with crusader origin probably.

And we cant go after your assuming that F* is mainly J1 like I mentioned. 3-5% of it might be J1 but assuming that most or all of it is J1 is simply fantasy work and has nothing to do with scientific facts because very well some of the F* could easily come out as N while we know some N are not rare in East Anatolia. And you simply misinterpreted the F segments among Kurds as H and J1 ? You cant sell us something as a fact while it is not clear. This is simply manipulation and pseudo science just like how you tried to sell us a study about Jordanian Kurds as a Study about Anatolian Kurds. So why should I take your words for Real?

And before you start to post again in a manipulative way you should first take in account what some people did answer you.

Kurdish F* is an archaic F-M89. F-M89 is in fact an error sign and can be everything. But Kurdish F-M89 is more likely I2a, J2, G2a or R-something (most common haplogroups among Kurds) . http://www.jogg.info/12/Pitfalls.pdf ---} everything about F-M89.
 
This is not True Nasidze has tested J1 among all of his Studies so far why shouldnt he do this on the kurdish samples too?
And who tells you that if a Haplogroup already was tested, that the other F segments cant come out as G, J2 I or K*? I have never heard about such a rule could you please provide some sources for this "fact"?. Even if we assume this is the case still some subclades of G and I were not tested like G*. I have seen a Kurd with I1a on the net with crusader origin probably.

And we cant go after your assuming that F* is mainly J1 like I mentioned. 3-5% of it might be J1 but assuming that most or all of it is J1 is simply fantasy work and has nothing to do with scientific facts because very well some of the F* could easily come out as N while we know some N are not rare in East Anatolia. And you simply misinterpreted the F segments among Kurds as H and J1 ? You cant sell us something as a fact while it is not clear. This is simply manipulation and pseudo science just like how you tried to sell us a study about Jordanian Kurds as a Study about Anatolian Kurds. So why should I take your words for Real?

And before you start to post again in your provocative and manipulative way you should first take in account what some people did answer you.
I did read what they have answered me but it really sounds more logical that F is J1 because in that particular region (south-east Anatolia) there is a lot of J1. I mean all surrounding people have J1 (Turks = 10%, Syrians = 20-25%, Armenians = 6-7%) but you suppose that F could be everything (I, J2, N, R) except J1 in Kurds, could you explain why?
I'm not a geneticist but I thought that you can't belong to haplogroup J2 without belonging in M172, am I wrong?
 
I mean that everyone who is positive for R1-M173 must be positive for K-M9 too, is that a mistake. If it is I stand corrected and I appologize to you
 
But I'm not wrong and you know it. In the Nasidze paper J1 was not tested, I don't know why. You must understand that if someone is negative for I-M170 than he can't be positive for I1a and if he is negative for J2-M172 he can't be positive for J2a4b (at least in most cases). What that paper you quoted says is that some of haplogroup F* could be asigned to some deeper subclades of haplogroups J2, I or G that do not have the original mutations of those haplogroups (in the case that all haplogroups that descend from F where tested) but in the case of Kurds it is most PROPABLE J1 which was not tested at all. Is this so difficult for you to understand?
 
But I'm not wrong and you know it. In the Nasidze paper J1 was not tested, I don't know why. You must understand that if someone is negative for I-M170 than he can't be positive for I1a and if he is negative for J2-M172 he can't be positive for J2a4b (at least in most cases). What that paper you quoted says is that some of haplogroup F* could be asigned to some deeper subclades of haplogroups J2, I or G that do not have the original mutations of those haplogroups (in the case that all haplogroups that descend from F where tested) but in the case of Kurds it is most PROPABLE J1 which was not tested at all. Is this so difficult for you to understand?

This is not a Rule. This is only what you assume. And out of your assumed probability you make a fact by not even taking in account some of the F* might be N and some other might be G*. instead of saying ~5% J1 ~2,5% N and ~4% G* for example, you assume and make out of it all J1 and H?



could be asigned to some deeper subclades of haplogroups J2, I or G that do not have the original mutations of those haplogroups
This is very much possible didnt some other Studies found J2* in very high diversity on Anatolia? And you now confirmed it is possible to be some subgroups so how do you come to the idea, to give us ,"f* being J1" as a fact?

We basically dont know what F* is some of it is very archaic according to Nasidzes.

And could you please explain me why you used a study about Kurds from Jordan to point out J1 among Anatolian Kurds?


This is my only problem I have with your methods. We dont know what F* really is, but you assume that most of it has to be J1 and make a fact out of it. A assume doesent give you the right to make "facts".

I for example confirmed that it is very possible that some of the F* might be J1 it could be 3-5% maybe 6-8% also possible only 2%. I cant know this thats why I assumed something like half of the F* being J1.


And beside that like Goga mentioned. The F* values found among Kurds are M89.

Page Five

http://www.zazaki.org/files/Kurds.pdf


Here more about M89

Haplogroup F-M89 is a “default” haplogroup potentially comprising several lineages.[5] Originally it was believed all M89+ men would be found to belong to F descendant haplogroups G-T, but an increasing number of men have continued to test positive only for the mutation that defines F.[6] The F* haplogroup is paraphyletic and rare in most regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F_(Y-DNA)
 
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This is not a Rule. This is only what you assume. And out of your assumed probability you make a fact by not even taking in account some of the F* might be N and some other might be G*. instead of saying ~5% J1 ~2,5% N and ~4% G* for example, you assume and make out of it all J1 and H?




This is very much possible didnt some other Studies found J2* in very high diversity on Anatolia? And you now confirmed it is possible to be some subgroups so how do you come to the idea, to give us ,"f* being J1" as a fact?

We basically dont know what F* is some of it is very archaic according to Nasidzes.

And could you please explain me why you used a study about Kurds from Jordan to point out J1 among Anatolian Kurds?


This is my only problem I have with your methods. We dont know what F* really is, but you assume that most of it has to be J1 and make a fact out of it. A assume doesent give you the right to make "facts".

I for example confirmed that it is very possible that some of the F* might be J1 it could be 3-5% maybe 6-8% also possible only 2%. I cant know this thats why I assumed something like half of the F* being J1.


And beside that like Goga mentioned. The F* values found among Kurds are M89.

Page Five

http://www.zazaki.org/files/Kurds.pdf


Here more about M89



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F_(Y-DNA)
Did you even read the paper of Flores et.al? Because if you had you would know that allthough it's main interest is about Jordanians, it uses older studies for the other populations. In the case of Kurds it used samples from Anatolia, Turkmenistan and Iraq not from Jordan. Any way I'm not here to argue with you, I just wanted to correct Maciamo's claim that Kurds are more European than Greeks or South Italians which is nonesence. I have seen a lot of Kurds and they look totally Middle Eastern, more so than Anatolian Turks or even Lebanese. They look closer to Iraqis than any other population near them
 
..........
 
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Puting Kurds on a Global Similarity map based on autosomal analysis would put them as far from Europe as the Chinese...pointless to argue on Kurds being more European, nonsense. Just a sole Y-DNA cannot constiute who is Europena, Asian or ME.
 
Puting Kurds on a Global Similarity map based on autosomal analysis would put them as far from Europe as the Chinese...pointless to argue on Kurds being more European, nonsense. Just a sole Y-DNA cannot constiute who is Europena, Asian or ME.

Wait a minute please. Just to make this clear. Here is no discussion about Kurds being European or not. Dont come up with something what isnt on discussion.

You simply failed the whole subject of this Thread. Sometimes I believe some People are only here on search for something against their boredom.

Puting Kurds on a Global Similarity map based on autosomal analysis would put them as far from Europe as the Chinese

Putting you in the category of serious writers would be as logical as using cockroaches as Pets. Seriously now for that comparison you would win the "nobel prize" :LOL:

The education level of a usual Turkish member.

Actually I dont care much about this but its fun to see you fail with your poor tries.

Iraqi Kurds show close relationships to European populations. A closer examination (Supp.
Figure S4B) shows that Kurds and eastern European Daghestani populations (Urkarah
and Stalskoe) are clearly separated from western European populations....

We also found that Iraqi Kurds have a closer
relationship to European populations than Asian populations....

http://209.85.48.16/4802/123/0/p100...de_populations_by_high_density_genotyping.pdf

kurds.jpg
 
Did you even read the paper of Flores et.al? Because if you had you would know that allthough it's main interest is about Jordanians, it uses older studies for the other populations. In the case of Kurds it used samples from Anatolia, Turkmenistan and Iraq not from Jordan. Any way I'm not here to argue with you, I just wanted to correct Maciamo's claim that Kurds are more European than Greeks or South Italians which is nonesence. I have seen a lot of Kurds and they look totally Middle Eastern, more so than Anatolian Turks or even Lebanese. They look closer to Iraqis than any other population near them

1.Thats the usual Opinion People get from reading to much nonsense on pseudo scientific websites. This says much about your knowledge and the Rest of your personality.

2. The Kurds living in Libanon belong to the physically most Caucasian and European looking individuals.

3. like Goga mentioned your Flores et. al. uses the samples of all Groups in same weight. This is amateurish and manipulative. Which serious scientist gives samples from outside the Middle East and from much smaller Population as much importance as Studies about Kurds from their Homelands. Your out of your mind if you take such nonsense serious. Your whole arguments are based on manipulative nonsense.

The physical appearance is based on solar latitude, living conditions etc. and can change from generation to generation drastically this is called Epigenetic. The Physical appearance has nothing to do with Genetic. Still I highly doubt that you have ever seen more than a few Kurds and assume your whole knowledge is based on what you have red from some pseudo scientific websites mainly visit by anti Kurdish members. Like Goga wrote most of Greeks and western(Thracian) Turks are basically Europeanized Mesopotamians and North African/ levantine Semites belonging to Haplogroups of J2b and E1b* (Minoan, Phoenician, Berber and Egyptian) and Indo Europeans. While the majority of Kurds are indeed Indo Europeans and Caucasians (I2a, J2a, R1a, R1b, G2a) living in bad conditions. So simple as that.
 
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alan as an idiot Kurd even you should see that tested Kurds land between Pakistan and Dagestan (your own reference) so put a lid on it and move on...Caucasus/Middle East genetic component, which has dispersing all the way to North India, now if you read the study you will see that in evolutionary terms one population might be closer to one continent or the other, but in that same perspective we all come from Africa. Be useful show us where you land in your own autosomal Global Similarity so we can have a discussion.
 
Turk (that should be insult enough) do me and yourself a favor and dont play a gooder and change the subject every time you fail on the old. We are talking about Genetics and not "Races".

Your claim

Puting Kurds on a Global Similarity map based on autosomal analysis would put them as far from Europe as the Chinese.

My Game



kurds.jpg

eurasian-pca.jpg


Only a intelligent Turk isnt able to see the huge gab between Iraqi Kurdish and Pakistani samples.

admixture-xing.jpg
 
The physical appearance is based on solar latitude, living conditions etc. and can change from generation to generation drastically this is called Epigenetic. The Physical appearance has nothing to do with Genetic. Still I highly doubt that you have ever seen more than a few Kurds and assume your whole knowledge is based on what you have red from some pseudo scientific websites mainly visit by anti Kurdish members. Like Goga wrote most of Greeks and western(Thracian) Turks are basically Europeanized Mesopotamians and North African/ levantine Semites belonging to Haplogroups of J2b and E1b* (Minoan, Phoenician, Berber and Egyptian) and Indo Europeans. While the majority of Kurds are indeed Indo Europeans and Caucasians (I2a, J2a, R1a, R1b, G2a) living in bad conditions. So simple as that.[/QUOTE]

You are hillarious. I 'm not saying that Kurds look Middle Eastern because of their colour but because their facial charachteristics look Middle Eastern (facial structure does not change because of sun expose). Look at Ocalan he could be Sadam Huseins cousin!!! I have never met a felow Greek who looks like that.
 

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