Y-DNA Haplogroups in Iraqi Kurdistan

The physical appearance is based on solar latitude, living conditions etc. and can change from generation to generation drastically this is called Epigenetic. The Physical appearance has nothing to do with Genetic. Still I highly doubt that you have ever seen more than a few Kurds and assume your whole knowledge is based on what you have red from some pseudo scientific websites mainly visit by anti Kurdish members. Like Goga wrote most of Greeks and western(Thracian) Turks are basically Europeanized Mesopotamians and North African/ levantine Semites belonging to Haplogroups of J2b and E1b* (Minoan, Phoenician, Berber and Egyptian) and Indo Europeans. While the majority of Kurds are indeed Indo Europeans and Caucasians (I2a, J2a, R1a, R1b, G2a) living in bad conditions. So simple as that.

You are hillarious. I 'm not saying that Kurds look Middle Eastern because of their colour but because their facial charachteristics look Middle Eastern (facial structure does not change because of sun expose). Look at Ocalan he could be Sadam Huseins cousin!!! I have never met a felow Greek who looks like that.

thanks and i give back the compliment your hilarious too.

The physical appearance is based on solar latitude, living conditions etc.

Why is it so hard to get that a man working hard 12 hours the day under the sun will have different rundown facial features than a man working 8 hours a day sitting in front of a Computer.

Are you trying to tell me that this Albanian man looks like this not because of the hard work he does under the sun but cause of his genetics?
(no he is not a Roma)
http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/pr22168,1139693430,Kosovo-Albaner.jpg?nc


Abdullah Öcalans mother is a Turk(men) his look comes probably from her cause he doesent have the sharper features of usual kurdish man.

http://www.omem.net/thumb/3501-erol-berxwedan-awaza-evine.jpg
http://www.medyaline.com/haberresim/17-ozcan-deniz-resimleri.jpg

And like i mentioned this here is not about the phenotypes of some Groups and less about a compare between Kurds and Greeks cause of course it is obvious that Greeks are European and Kurds not. But ok if you insist that much to it.

Here are Greeks who look at least similar to him
http://www.bildkiste.de/cache/10/12/Mann-Gestik-Grieche.JPG_595.jpg
http://www.fotoclub-rastatt.de/assets/images/autogen/a_comp__Grieche.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_351/12311942221Tl1R1.jpg
http://data5.blog.de/media/800/3643800_0df9b64ce2_m.jpeg
 
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Alan your knowledge is great , but I have few coments. 1) Germans have never call themselves like that , that name is used by Romans and mean relative , because they first encounter with Germans was during conjoined attacks by Celts and Germans , and they writed" attacks by Celts and they relatives " , later that was used like a name for a Germanic nations 2)There is more reliable explanation of Sarmatian origins than that given by Herodotus( that they are descendants of Amazons and Scythians).Diodorus Siculus say that Scythians moved parts of Medians to they kingdom during they rule in Asia in VII century BC , and that Medians are called Sarmatians which means Solar Medes .And Kurds are descendants of Medians , thats why Sarmatians and Kurds both have I2a2 . 3)I2a2 is not a Slavic haplogroup , it is Saramatian . Slavs are mainly R1a and they are descendants of Scytians and nations they have conquered - Melanhleni , Neuri ,Androphage, ... I2a2 is strong in all regions where Sarmatians use to live : Ukraine ( coast of Black see -homeland of Sarmatians after they conquered Scytians , also there was some movement of Serbs in XVIII century to east Ukraine , and there is report by Byzantine patriarch Nichophorus that parts of Serbs and Croats have escaped on empty lands in today Poland and Slovakia-Bielochorbatoi around Krakow and Lendzans "those who live on empty land" , in today Ukraine and Belarus - Boiki and Rusini by Rascia one of Serbian states in Midle ages . It is interesting that higher level of I mth haplogroup in Europe is in Boiki 10% , and that haplogroup use to be 10% in Scandinavia during Midle ages but it has decreased. ), Moldavia and Romania ( also homeland of Sarmatians after they conquered Scytians , after colapse of Huns hier lives Ants whose names are Iranian- Sarmatian , also during the Hunic empire Saramatians use to live in Banat) , Sardinia ( Vandals mixed with Alans after move to Africa setled hier ,I think there is some I2 in Lybia to . Tacitus say that Vandals were Saramatian nation) ,Serbia - Croatia -Bosnia -Macedonia-Montenegro (setled by Sarmatian tribes of Serbs-Serboi-Siraci and Croats -Harauati mentioned by Pliny the Elder like Sarmatian tribes), Bulgaria ( Bulgarians could partialy been Sarmatian , and there is emperor Constantine setling of 500.000 Sarmatians in Thrace , same is the case in Greece , also around Thesaloniki was first setling place of Serbs , Albania was part of Car Dušans empire , north Albania to river Liesus was in Serbian state Dioclitia-Duklja and some sources say Serbs and Croats use to hold to Apolonia - today city of Fier) , Hungary ( Magyars brought with them parts of Yazigs , in Hunic and Avar empire Sarmatians lived in Banat , and Turks chase population of Banat diper in to Hungary, there was also Serb and Croatian setling in Hungary), Slovenia( there used to live Venets probably cousins of Vandals , also great numbers of Croats escaped there infront of Turks ),north parts of Ossetians ( others are quite simillar to surounding nations - probably has something to do with custom to rape whole conquered village,haplogroup G is conected to goath breaders and is present on every big mountin like Caucasus , also high in Alpes-Austria) , Czech republic ( Croats move on Balkans from there , in X century there was a Croatian kingdom under Slavnik family) , Mordvinia republic in Russia ( in the area around Ryazansk moved groups of Roxolani) ,Spain ( Alan and Vandal setlement , Katalonia), France ( few Alanic kingdoms) , England ( 5000 Sarmatian auxiliars - king Arthur) , Germany ( Serbs come on Balkans from river Elba-Laba , Sarland ). So all of I2a2 can be explained by Sarmatians moving - has nothing to do with Slavs . There is also theory that I2a2 is paleolitic haplogroup who setled Balkans during last glacial maximum , that makes no sence because Greeks and Albanians -old popultions have less I2a2 then Serbs and Croats-newcomers , also Mesapi population of southern Italy has no I2a2 and they are Illyrians that crossed Adriatic see. 4)Kurds have K haplogroup ,and the Serbs to around 3% in some aerias up to 7% . Also Volga Tatari - inhabitants of Mordvinia republic in Russia where setled some Roxolans has 7,99% K and 18,4% I2a2 . Think that is K*.
5) also Kurds do have more European genes than Greeks , atleast more IndoEuropean . There was comparing of HLA alels( A and B) amongs the nations of Mediteran , which shown that Greeks are geneticaly more similar to Etiopians than any other Mediteranean nation , especially nations Oromo,Fulani and Mossi. Theese do not aply on Macedonians and Creteans whose are in one group by similarity with Sardinians, Jews and Lebanons , whyle Greeks are i group with Etiopians , and third group are North Africans and West Europeans ( France , Italy , Spain , Portugal) .At the same time there is no conection between Greeks and other African nations . These similarity probably ocured due to some move of Etopians in to Greece after downfall of Nubian dinasty in Egipt , they havent enter the Crete because Minoian state was to strong . Antic Greeks use to believe that they religion and culture had come from Egipt. Dont get insulted some of my grenfathers few centuries ago meried some Greek girls so I also has some Greek blood.
My theory about haplogroup I is that it emerged in the aeria of Pamir in Tadjikistan and then gradualy moved toward the Europe . In Xingyang in China use to live nation of Yuezhi whose name is very similar to the name of Yazigi one of the Alan tribe, name Alan meen " one that live in stepes" .Today in Xingyang live Uygurs with 60% of R1a haplogroup and 33% of I haplogroup .
Name of Guti (Gutians) is also very interesting - it is similar to name of Goths , Juts(inhabited England) and Masagets and Tisagets who formed Alans - probably egzonim .
 
Interesting. Maybe I evolved somewhere in West Kurdistan (east Anatolia) and migrated north into Russia via the Caucasus mountain range (and maybe into South Europe via Turkey).
J2 evolved somewhere in South Kurdistan and became a Mesopotamian haplogroup. J1 evolved in Central Kurdistan and migrated into 'the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula' = Arabistan.

Does this mean that Kurdistan was (and is) the 'Biblical Garden of Eden' !?!?

Maybe R1b, R1a and R2 evolved somewhere in the Caucasus. Because some R1a and R2 subclades in Caucasus are VERY old. But according to the mainstream scientists R somewhere from Central Asia and yes somewhere near Tadjikistan.

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12345lc.jpg
 
Interesting. Maybe I evolved somewhere in West Kurdistan (east Anatolia) and migrated north into Russia via the Caucasus mountain range (and maybe into South Europe via Turkey).
J2 evolved somewhere in South Kurdistan and became a Mesopotamian haplogroup. J1 evolved in Central Kurdistan and migrated into 'the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula' = Arabistan.

Does this mean that Kurdistan was (and is) the 'Biblical Garden of Eden' !?!?

Maybe R1b, R1a and R2 evolved somewhere in the Caucasus. Because some R1a and R2 subclades in Caucasus are VERY old. But according to the mainstream scientists R somewhere from Central Asia and yes somewhere near Tadjikistan.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1166/12345lc.jpg


View attachment 5080

R2a* is the sister clade of R1a* and both definitely evolved in the same Region.
Either Central or West Asia. Just like R1a* Also R2a* has a larger range of Phenotypes. It has a moderate distribution in the Caucasus, South Asia, Central Asia, East Europe and among Jews.

Yezidi Kurds from Georgia are known to have very high frequency of R2a due founder effect. 44% I think Goga is also a Kurd from Georgia.

And they look like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ep6KRw6TkE


It has moderate frequency in India. It is found in high density among West Bengalis.

They look like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtn20ykwO8w&feature=fvsr


and among Chechens ~15%

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TL6V4JVtic



The original R2 carrier probably looked very similar to the original R1 carrier. But moving in different Regions of the World they mixed with the locals.
 
Yes, I (an Yezidi Kurd) was born in the USSR, Tbilisi (Georgia).

According to this fella they found some R2a in South Caucasus in the Trialeti culture (Georgia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trialeti_culture.


"He discovered that the Armenian R2a MRCA fit into the "upper end" of the Trialeti culture (2200/2000-1500 B.C.), which was a continuation of the preceding Kura-Araxes culture. Trialeti cultural elements include Kurgan-elite burials with gold artifacts, four-wheeled wagons and bronze weaponry. As far as my Google search revealed, the Kura-Araxes culture also featured Kurgan-style burials but they seem to have been more commonplace in Trialeti."

I've got from http://r2dna.org/index.php?topic=247.0


R2a was part of the Aryan (proto-Iranic, Sarmatians, Scythians, Medes) folks...
 
very interesting this explains much. I never doubted the idea that R2a belonged to the Kurgan-Makyop-Kura araxes culture.
 
Alan your knowledge is great , but I have few coments. 1) Germans have never call themselves like that....

Very interesting. I agree with many of your thesis but I dont agree that Scythians were Slavic because it is very well known that they definitely belonged to the Iranic language family. However we can surely assume that many of South Russians have absorbed Scythians.
 
very interesting this explains much. I never doubted the idea that R2a belonged to the Kurgan-Makyop-Kura araxes culture.
Yes, incredible isn't it ? The gold objects in the Trialeti 'kurgans' were similar to those found in Kurdistan.

"A second culture in the Caucasus is that of the Trialeti People located in western Georgia and existing in the first century of the second half of the second millennium BC. Kurgans (burial mounds) were excavated revealing rich pottery with new pottery forms and a broad usage of gold. The gold is similar to that found in Iran and Iraq and some archaeologists see the Trialeti Culture as the second wave of diffusion of Near East populations; however since no burial mounds have been uncovered in Georgia or Armenia, Alexeev concludes that the Trialeti Culture is similar to the Kura-Araxes Culture."

http://www.drummingnet.com/alekseev/ChapterVIIPart2.html


This is true science and not abracadabra Hollywood fantasy!!!
 
Very interesting. I agree with many of your thesis but I dont agree that Scythians were Slavic because it is very well known that they definitely belonged to the Iranic language family. However we can surely assume that many of South Russians have absorbed Scythians.
I think I havent said that Scythians were Slavic , if I did it was mistake,sorry , I meant to say that Slavs are mainly descendants of Scythians and nations conquered by them . I think I also said that Neuri was among ancestors of Slavs , that was mistake to , Neuri are probably ancestors of Balti peoples ( Lithuanians, Latvians , Mazuri , Prussi/ Borussians ,... ) . Thanks for answering .
 
People who say themselves as "Turkic" and who have R DNA: They have Kurdified Turkic ancestry, also I don't believe that "Kurds is a race-tribe" anyway..R DNA is Turanian-Turkic DNA, Turkic people have R DNA too. "Kurd" name is Persian origin such as "Azeri" name, how Azeri people have Turkic origin people.. Kurds have too..I'm Turkic Cuman from Turkey..
 
People who say themselves as "Turkic" and who have R DNA: They have Kurdified Turkic ancestry, also I don't believe that "Kurds is a race-tribe" anyway..R DNA is Turanian-Turkic DNA, Turkic people have R DNA too. "Kurd" name is Persian origin such as "Azeri" name, how Azeri people have Turkic origin people.. Kurds have too..I'm Turkic Cuman from Turkey..

Did you know that the very name "Kur/Kurd" is allot more ancient and that some people as far as in Sibiria who still speak an Iranic language call themselves Kurds.

Did you also know that some of the very first Turkic groups used to call themselves Kurd and their country Kurdistan?

The Bashkirs, which is simply a corrupted version of Bashkur(d)s and means the "Royal"(Bash= the head/leader) Sons (Kur= sons). The country of the Bashkirs is called by themselves... you name it, BashKurdistan
images



The word "Kurd" is so widespread throughout anciant Iranic (and later Turkic) homeland, If anything it seems Turk is derived from the name Kurd.
 
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The Armenian language is descend of Phrygian they came from Central Anatolia. Armenians are relatively late arrivels compared to Iranic groups, so are the Turkic tribes.

If you keep throwing with nonlogical statements around without providing any sources, you will be reported, because this is considered as spam.
 
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How do you explain the Artuqids (and other eastern anatolian beyliks) they are native eastern Anatolians ! they are native who dont come from iran


Artuqids and other Ottoman beyliks are roughly several hundred centuries old. Medes, Cimmerians, Persians, Mitanni all those Indo-Iranian groups are roughly 2-4 thousand years present in "Eastern Anatolia". how the heck are Artuqids and other Ottoman/Seljuk beyliks natives? In which Fantasy world.
 
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Hittites, Luwians etc. were neither Iranic nor proto-Iranic. Also, Kurds (one of the oldest people on earth) are natives of their homeland Kurdistan. Kurdish verifying roots are dating back to the Sumerian times. Kurdish native (Solar) religion has direct links with the ancient religion of the Sumerians. Kurds are modern day 'Iranic' people. Their ancient Iranic ancestors were the 'Iranic' Medes, Mitanni and Kassites. Kurdish language is also very close to the ancient Iranic languages of Kurdistan. And the ancient ancestors of the Medes, Mitanni and Kassites were people like Sumerians and Gutians. Kurds have a very ancient history of 10000 years old, Kurdish native religion is thousands of years old. How old is Turkic history? Only 1000 years old?
 
Haplogroups can be a sign of features but do not have direct contact with Phenotypes. The Kurds with light Hair, from my observation go more in a "slavic" than German direction. light hair in the Childhood is nothing uncommon in the whole Western Asian Region. And they are genetically not different from those with Black Hair. So stop separating them from other Kurds by calling them "White Kurds" I don´´t like such comments.

Indeed, phenotypes can show great varieties, even between direct family members. For example, my father's hair is light brown and his eyes light gray, and I have dark hair and darker green eyes. This is common in both major haplogroups I2 Din and R1a.
 

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