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Thread: Barroso talking that EU is "non-imperial empire"

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    Talking Barroso talking that EU is "non-imperial empire"





    So he will be first EU emperor?

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    Well, Europe is an empire without an emperor. And indeed he is right that the EU didn't emerge out of the will of one dictator, or a group of political fanatics. But I think Europe should be an economical union in the first place.

    We Europeans have created our own market. But large companies invest in China to produce, and sell their goods in Europe.
    That's capitalism and wrong. Why? Transport is taking too much resources.
    So, I guess Europe will be changing politics in the future.

    The new name will be European Federation of Communalist Republics.

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    The new name will be European Federation of Communalist Republics.
    Reinaert, what are you like in communism? I am actually did not thought that there is still some adherents of communism in Europe lol

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    There are still romantic in Europe.

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    @ Anton..
    I said Communalist... That's a path between Capitalism and Communism.
    Somewhat an Anarchy with basic rules.
    Contradictio in terminis, I know.

    @Carlitos..
    Romantic? No, Realistic. You can't afford an economy that depends heavily on imports from the rest of the world in the long run. The Roman empire collapsed because of that, the British empire also.
    Even now we see problems at sea. Pirates get away with a lot of looting.

    But NATO has other priorities.

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    well seems like PIGS are are happy,

    since I am Greek I am very happy that Dominique Strauss-Kahn is arrested in NY for rape attempt.

    today president of France should sleep easy cause his most popular opponent Dominique is in Prison

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    Who is that guy (Nigel Farage?), he looks very funny


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anton, Bear's den View Post


    So he will be first EU emperor?

    Well Anton although I am afraid of Europe to, At least EU is not the kingdom of 1 man show, Like Russia
    Putin prime minister, Putin President, Putin President, 30 years of Putin-ism,
    that is a life time Emperor,
    Putin manage to Be more years emperor in Rusia that many Caesars (Cars) will envy him. cause they had less.

    At least Europe changes faces more often

    Nigel Farage and few others are the romantic people of a romantic EU, that wants Eu to stay as EU and not become China or USA.

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    EU will never become an Empire beacus there are many Nations and the problem is that those nations doesnt have similarities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmir View Post
    EU will never become an Empire beacus there are many Nations and the problem is that those nations doesnt have similarities.
    Roman had many nations, but was an empire

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    Euuuhhh... We don't want an empire!

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    Why not?
    The Union makes the power!

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    GDP projected to 2050


    source guardian newspaper

    I don't see there being any other way forward than a full political and fiscal union. European nations are used to holding power on the world stage and with every decade that passes we are becoming more and more a bit player. Europeans like Americans have been ruthless in maintaining their power grip so when the tables turn we can't expect China, India or Brasil to play fair.

    It you don't want your grand kids to be emmigrating to other parts of the world for work or sat in the unemployment office waiting for hand outs I would suggest becoming very pro EU and very pro Federal Europe.

    In Scotland the Scottish National Party are all excited about the potential of breaking out of the UK, with a planned referendum in 4 or so years time. So when economic growth has picked up they can go oh that was ME!

    Nationalism is dead! There have been various political borders and nations in Europe, languages have developed cultures evolved, why is everyone so romantic about thier tiny tribe? Lets look at the bigger picture and accept a Federal Europe.

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    I am Greek I am very happy that Dominique Strauss-Kahn is arrested in NY for rape attempt
    But he was your best friend...

    Germany don't want to pay for Greece, and DSK had always defended you in front of Merkel...

    Europe is an empire without an emperor
    Are you serious?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    Well Anton although I am afraid of Europe to, At least EU is not the kingdom of 1 man show, Like Russia
    Putin prime minister, Putin President, Putin President, 30 years of Putin-ism,
    that is a life time Emperor,
    Putin manage to Be more years emperor in Rusia that many Caesars (Cars) will envy him. cause they had less.

    At least Europe changes faces more often

    Nigel Farage and few others are the romantic people of a romantic EU, that wants Eu to stay as EU and not become China or USA.
    I see you misunderstood me. Nobody wants to crown single man to reign question was - what you think about Barroso words, that Europe is democratic empire or something, I myself don't understand Barros's point up to the end.
    I am honestly say you, on this "Europe forum" I forced to defend current regime in Russia (because of very distorted view here) and in the same time always criticize it on Russian forums. Your point about 30 years of Putin kingship is nice example of distorted view, 30 years ago even Russia did not exist, there was Soviet Union. Putin was a president from 2000-2008, before 2000 year nobody has heard of this man. In 2012 elections in Russia, will see.

    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    Nigel Farage and few others are the romantic people of a romantic EU, that wants Eu to stay as EU and not become China or USA.
    His party have name "UKIP" United Kingdom Independence Party, natural conclusion from the name - separatists who are against the EU
    I'm not going to judge, may be that guy is nice and his views give greater pluralism, but his criticism is bordered with a direct insult very closely.

    Experience of big countries says that they can exist only as presidential republics and leader should be respected, not blind Asian obedience but anyway respected. Look at USA, don't think that someone is able to say right in the face of Obama "you have a charisma of a damp rag and your parents is a low grade bank clerk..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonRoust View Post
    Germany don't want to pay for Greece?
    Mmmm I don't see why not, Germany is making a very nice profit out of "helping" Greece plus is in the process of selling Greece submarines and stuff. It is hardly charity.

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    This isn't an econimist decision...

    Merkel's popularity declines, and want to reassure her voters...but it may be a bluff, she knows that if nobody help Greece, the Euro will be down...

    (Sorry for my poor English)

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    Yes I agree, but don't mind me. I just get annoyed at the impression given by the media that Germany is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts when it couldn't be further from the truth.

    (You have nothing to apologise for VonRoust, your English is very good)

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    I just get annoyed at the impression given by the media that Germany is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts when it couldn't be further from the truth
    Oh yes, "the truth is out there"...

    your English is very good
    ............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigone View Post
    Yes I agree, but don't mind me. I just get annoyed at the impression given by the media that Germany is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts when it couldn't be further from the truth.

    (You have nothing to apologise for VonRoust, your English is very good)
    Uhm, who wrote that Germany did this for charity reasons?
    It is the same with the US in the Middle East or with the Chinese in Africa:

    It is all only for a better world to live in. Under one own's leadership, of course!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonRoust View Post
    This isn't an econimist decision...

    Merkel's popularity declines, and want to reassure her voters...but it may be a bluff, she knows that if nobody help Greece, the Euro will be down...

    (Sorry for my poor English)
    Yes, that is the dilemma she is in. The population is actually split into two equal halves about this opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VonRoust View Post
    But he was your best friend...

    Germany don't want to pay for Greece, and DSK had always defended you in front of Merkel...

    Are you serious?
    yes the case of Germany and Finland against Greek depth is another story,

    In Greece we know and we quess other reasons,
    Greek crisis is because of some Bankers the lend money with x3 or x4 times over than others with bigger depth.

    The case of Germany and the Deny was programmed to pass some change in public issues that was accepted with almost no trouble, some economical classes, that had much privileges
    the problem was and is corrupted person in places, covered by political parties,
    and seems like today only a small % is find, while the situation is the same,
    the IMF gave support to Greece cause Greece followed the instructions,
    and did not revolt as other places, why? I don't know, But seems Greek society is in Luck of dreamer and modern philosophers,

    IMF only check and does not solve problem,
    DE FACTO only in my area 13 small corporations just closed and 7 of them moved to Bulgaria (also EU) just because of the taxes in primary production, thhat was raised from 9, 15 to 13-15, 23-25 %
    if you put taxes to primary production then you kick all foreign investments, and even your people stop producing but prefer to buy cheap imported,
    since IMF gave instructions, as a strange reaction, Greek market started to buy from German cheap markets, !!!!! and import Turkish products and change label, !!!!!!
    last winter in Greece that perfect oranges, we ate !!! Turkish, Brazilian Spanish and North African !!!!!
    since IMF started to gave instruction all construction industry is stoped due a new law that raises taxes from x2 to x8 according the old,
    well it is another thing to cut salaries and another to stop any production sending 000 000 to unemployment.

    Indeed German will not want to pay for the Greeks had a reason, cause a German worked until 65 and some Greeks got retirement at 45 (military and police forces).
    But that was solved from the Begin,
    Greece change laws and is according majority of EU laws today,
    But that did not help, still spreads are very high,
    then what is Happening,
    Simply Portugal was smart and avoid IMF,
    But Greece was Dump, and accepted IMF,
    (socialist with a Porche, that pays 150 000 for a house while normal Greeks pay 250-300 E rent)
    well simply IMF manage to kick away the last industries that did not left in previous times, and manage to make problem from a crisis a Gordian tight, that will last until 2025-2030,
    the case of portugal opened eyes in some Greeks and today people, are suspicious that something is Behind,
    Angela of Germany told clear in past, SELL SOME OF YOUR ISLANDS,

    and IMF instruction although Helps us with some money today, simply puts a bomb in our national lands in 2 ways,

    1 is by selling Islands or monuments simply is like selling your heaviest industry,
    2 is the case of international laws,
    it is written in a thread about Cyprus,

    simply Greek crisis started the exact time that Greeks and Cyprus demanded to expand sea-reef boarders to 12 miles than 6 that are today, a case that is Casus Beli for Turkish,

    and the abandoned plan of South Stream (Russian pipes)and Nabuco (USA pipes) that will transfer oil and Gas to italy and west Europe,
    Greece spend billions of EU there, but the Georgia-Osetia cases, as also the Azer-Turkish new treatment instead of bringing oil and gas, are empty pipes,

    simply the East Mesogeios (mediteraneo) oil and gas, is in Target.
    Last edited by iapetoc; 17-05-11 at 00:22.

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    It was not Merkel who suggested Greece to sell it's islands, but Josef Schlarmann, some relatively unknown politician, but of the same party however.
    I'm not very much into economy, but I think it would really be interesting to know what would happen if Greece even severely lowered it's taxes for enterprices, in order to foster businesses and economy. Of course, the IMF would get an apoplex from that as it wouldn't trust this method very much and it would be way too slow. But how should Greece ever get out of this situation if living and business conditions get even worse?? When the debts are paid, I fear the country will be a wreck...
    It is what I criticize almost everywhere in Europe today, that people can't think, or want to think, in long range terms!

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    Standart strategy of IMF is sharp reduction in spending and raising taxes. Usually result of such IMF directions are terrible, situation for simple people becomes even worse. Best is stay away from that organisation as far as possible if you have such opportunity.

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    Greek problem is unemployment, and insurance stamps,

    in some areas reach 705 but mostly is 25% average, that is about 1 500 000 peole live with 50 days of work stamps,
    that make public insurance and health to be expensive,

    think, 1 man to work to feed 2 families, !!!

    besides the Turkish miracle of after 70,
    it became cause they kicked IMF.

    IMF is not giving future solutions, but only directives and check if you obey them,
    simply controls the depth
    think Greek economy was not Bad, it was a quite good one, worse than 1978, but better than today,
    unemployment was 10-14%,
    Since IMF came raised to 25%, and is expected to reach 30-35%
    30-35% is dangerous,
    since IMF came >30% of Greek people money flew from Greece
    simply you can not put a EU farmer a high tax, or a small local cheese maker cause then you make him to move to city to sell donuts and coffee, or you force him to use mutate products and alternative solutions, that are dangerous,
    the 1rst is production, the 2nd? produces what? simply turns money hands.

    there are many taxes,
    the taxes of market are based in a theory that farmer pays tax of income, and not for production, and through merchants, industry etc reach the consumer with a logical taxation.
    the last, consumer tax can be high,
    but if producers tax is entered or high then consumer avoids to buy cause the extra money is summed, and turns to alternative solutions, so producer changes production or job,

    I produce olive oil and I export it in another country, I bring currency to my country,
    if you put tax in my production (not my income) the you raise my prizes and simply you kick me off the market, cause then I must raise prizes but the other country can find better prizes, and they maybe do not want my oil cause is expensive.

    As a farmer I need oil, If Buy oil same price as a consumer that goes for a ride withhis car , then taxation in 1rst production is done, and is criminal,
    just think that farmers according production before IMF buy some quantities with 1,10 E per litter, and 1,40 the rest, today all quantities are 1,80 E (955 octane), then how much i will sel my products and at what price they reach market.

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