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Thread: Celtic - Serbian parallels

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think Serbs came from east with rest of Slavs, settled in Bavaria, and later some moved south.
    Well, this is certainly a possibility. The reason I remain sceptical of that is the time frame. When could they have arrived/left? And, I wouldn't necessarily think Bavaria (there is, of course, also the question about the origin of the Bavarians themselves at that) but more probably Bohemia. Specifically because the Bavarians ("Baiovarii") themselves claimed to be from Bohemia originally.

    They lived not to far from white Croats and probably moved east and south in unison too.
    They show as Belochrovates on this map:
    What I wonder on is what the Slavic usage of "white" there meant. But yes, it would seem very likely that the Serbs and the Croats travelled in unison.

    With Boii it might get interesting. It really goes nicely with slavic word boi (battle), till Bolshevik revolution the ruling class in Russia was called Boyars/Boiars. This link says that it originated in Bulgaria.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar
    The Celtic tribal name is generally understood as derived from the Celtic word for "cattle" (thereby, possibly in the sense of "cattle owner"). Cognates even exist in modern Celtic languages (Irish "Bó" - "cow", Welsh "Buwch" - "cow", Breton "Buoc'h" - "cow").

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I think Serbs came from east with rest of Slavs, settled in Bavaria, and later some moved south.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Serbia

    They lived not to far from white Croats and probably moved east and south in unison too.
    They show as Belochrovates on this map:

    http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82a_Chorwacja


    With Boii it might get interesting. It really goes nicely with slavic word boi (battle), till Bolshevik revolution the ruling class in Russia was called Boyars/Boiars. This link says that it originated in Bulgaria.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyar

    Are you serious?.........lets be logical about this. If the Boii was in italian lands between lombardy and tuscany ( called Romagna now.) and where called BOII and then they migrated to czech area and where called BOII , how then did this become some kind of serb word unless the serb where short of words.

    In Italy , there celtic name meant
    .Boii (Milk People) [next to Eridanus River (Po) Valley].
    area in Bohemia was called Boiohaemum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Well, this is certainly a possibility. The reason I remain sceptical of that is the time frame. When could they have arrived/left? And, I wouldn't necessarily think Bavaria (there is, of course, also the question about the origin of the Bavarians themselves at that) but more probably Bohemia. Specifically because the Bavarians ("Baiovarii") themselves claimed to be from Bohemia originally.
    bavarians where
    Baiuoarii (Sacred Milk People)



    What I wonder on is what the Slavic usage of "white" there meant. But yes, it would seem very likely that the Serbs and the Croats travelled in unison.
    Doubt this very much


    The Celtic tribal name is generally understood as derived from the Celtic word for "cattle" (thereby, possibly in the sense of "cattle owner"). Cognates even exist in modern Celtic languages (Irish "Bó" - "cow", Welsh "Buwch" - "cow", Breton "Buoc'h" - "cow").
    bretons where the Britanni tribe (Cow Goddess People)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Are you serious?.........lets be logical about this. If the Boii was in italian lands between lombardy and tuscany ( called Romagna now.) and where called BOII and then they migrated to czech area and where called BOII , how then did this become some kind of serb word unless the serb where short of words.
    Actually, the Boii are far more likely to have travelled from Bohemia into Italy, not vice versa. Bohemia was part of the original Celtic homeland, and the city of Bologna was originally Etruscan until it was taken by the Boii.

    Besides, there were five locations where various branches of the Boii - at different times, of course - lived:
    - Bohemia (their presumed original homeland, which was taken by the Marcomanni in the wake of the Cimbrian war)
    - Northern Italy.
    - Pannonia.
    - The "Tolisto-Bogi" of Anatolia.
    - There was another branch of Boii (probably remnants of the Bohemian Boii) which was mentioned by the Caesar to have fought alongside the Helvetians when they invaded Gaul.

    In Italy , there celtic name meant
    .Boii (Milk People) [next to Eridanus River (Po) Valley].
    area in Bohemia was called Boiohaemum
    "Milk people"? That's a very... loose... translation, no?

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    I think you are fishing too much , All i read was that these are original slavic people
    main slavs = Russia
    western slavs = Poles
    Southern slavs = Bulgars

    Croats, serbs, slovenes, bosnians, montenegrians etc etc etc are still trying to define if they are slavs originally or not.

    In regards to your veneti theory, sorry to say but the name Veneti was a Roman invented word from VENETUS which means a blue-green clour , the colour of the sea, they gave this name to many areas. latest I found was
    Veniatia (Vinhais)Venetii (Sacred Salmon People)in Portugal

    The adraitic veneti was a small tribe illyrian tribe surrounded by celtic people in the eastern part of veneto - the Brixii and the Euganei ( non celtic) and in the friuli area, by the carni.
    I can give you all the tribes that spoke venetic but they where not veneti

    In celtic tales the veneti where said to be
    Veneti (Old Ones): situla at Cadore: Venetic: eik goltanos doto louderai kanei
    Goltanos [The One-Eyed One] sacrificed this for the virgin Kanei [The Powerful]

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    Are you postitive because the veneti where neighbours of the Boii in Italy , but had disappeared when the Boii where in the czech area..............I better get to my books to confirm

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    Zanipolo, why do you bring up the Veneti here, anyways? I thought we were talking about the Boii?!

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    Because How and yes keeps bringing it up

    I am glad to only bring up the Boii

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Because How and yes keeps bringing it up
    That's a point, he keeps doing that. And chromosomal tribalism. And according to him, about every ancient ethnic group was in fact Serbian!

    I am glad to only bring up the Boii
    Alright. By the way, the main town of the Italian Boii, Bononia (modern-day Bologna) was previously an Etruscan city called Felsina.

    There's also Livy's* annectdote about Bellovesus who purportedly led the Celtic/Gaulish invasion of northern Italy. He does get the tribes involved wrong, however, since he mentions tribes which did NOT settle in Italy (Bituriges, Arverni, Aedui, Ambarri, Carnutes and Aulerci), and omits tribes which actually verymuch did (Boii, Cenomani, Lingones). The only tribe he actually gets right are the Senones.

    *Ab Urbe Condita, book 5, chapter 34.

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    Any info on this celtic tribe in Pannonia?
    Apulli (Apple People of Apollo) [Latin: Pannonii] or
    Arravisci / Eravisci (Snowdrop People) or
    Cotini (Grain People)

    The Cenomani (Clear Water People) was situated on the border of Lombardy and Veneto , they where around for a while.

    The Boii was south of the Po river in Bologna as you say. Wiki says they where in Italy in 390BC, then went to the danube and later settled in Silesia Poland

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interesting Dagne, Boyar might be old celtic title/world after all.
    Looks like it has IE origin, boi, boy, battle. In slavic battle - bitva, fight - buika, go to fight- do boiu. In many instances b changed to V, and we have many words like war-voina, soldier-voiak, fighting-valka. (I used english-phonetics more than correct polish spelling :).
    nope it is not IE Sherif and Boyar or Bollan is Turkish words,
    Sherif means chiftain, and boyar means guardian,
    in fact boyar means 'tough quy' i agree with dagne,
    I don't know if avars or others,

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I think you are fishing too much , All i read was that these are original slavic people
    main slavs = Russia
    western slavs = Poles
    Southern slavs = Bulgars

    Croats, serbs, slovenes, bosnians, montenegrians etc etc etc are still trying to define if they are slavs originally or not.

    In regards to your veneti theory, sorry to say but the name Veneti was a Roman invented word from VENETUS which means a blue-green clour , the colour of the sea, they gave this name to many areas. latest I found was
    Veniatia (Vinhais)Venetii (Sacred Salmon People)in Portugal

    The adraitic veneti was a small tribe illyrian tribe surrounded by celtic people in the eastern part of veneto - the Brixii and the Euganei ( non celtic) and in the friuli area, by the carni.
    I can give you all the tribes that spoke venetic but they where not veneti

    In celtic tales the veneti where said to be
    Veneti (Old Ones): situla at Cadore: Venetic: eik goltanos doto louderai kanei
    Goltanos [The One-Eyed One] sacrificed this for the virgin Kanei [The Powerful]

    Bulgars comes the balkars, Non slavic people,
    (although bulgaria is 'slavic' speaking that is why many try to connect or reconstruct thracian toward Baltic

    Croats and serbs is another story,

    we must not forget the avars,
    Croatia is inner Hrvati Hrbt is after Avars tribal name,
    Balkars were not slavic (asparouch) they are connected with other non Slavic nations

    on the other hand Hrbt and Srb share almost same language!!!!!!!

    and serbians have more domestic DNA while Croatians bigger (double) R1a from others,

    the case is complex, we miss many Avars,
    example Cumans who live in south Serbia and Fyrom Kumanovo and also in Romania etc are none Slavic, but today speak Slavic or romanian and their language is lost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Any info on this celtic tribe in Pannonia?
    Apulli (Apple People of Apollo) [Latin: Pannonii] or
    Arravisci / Eravisci (Snowdrop People) or
    Cotini (Grain People)

    The Cenomani (Clear Water People) was situated on the border of Lombardy and Veneto , they where around for a while.

    The Boii was south of the Po river in Bologna as you say. Wiki says they where in Italy in 390BC, then went to the danube and later settled in Silesia Poland

    yes apulia Romania Daci people



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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Any info on this celtic tribe in Pannonia?
    Apulli (Apple People of Apollo) [Latin: Pannonii] or
    Arravisci / Eravisci (Snowdrop People) or
    Cotini (Grain People)

    The Cenomani (Clear Water People) was situated on the border of Lombardy and Veneto , they where around for a while.
    "Apple people of Apollo"?!? Where are you taking these "etymologies" from?! They are complete nonsense!

    The Boii was south of the Po river in Bologna as you say. Wiki says they where in Italy in 390BC,...
    This is correct, but...

    ...then went to the danube and later settled in Silesia Poland
    ... this is not. Yes, a branch of them went into Italy. But the Boii on the Danube were a separate branch. Also, Wikipedia states this nowhere, even it is very clear that those were different branches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    "Apple people of Apollo"?!? Where are you taking these "etymologies" from?! They are complete nonsense!


    .
    Before I reveal the site, how accurate are these

    Seni (Senj) Senones
    Sava River Sequsiani
    Pannonia Secunda (Coastal Dacia) Dacii/Thracii
    Dubrovnik Dumonii / Domnanii
    Swabia Aedui Baiocasses
    Bregenz & Brenner Brigantes
    Gati (Sankt Stefan im Gailtal) Cath [Latin: Quadi Suevi]

    actually gati should be gatti which was a celti-illyric name for Raeti

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Before I reveal the site, how accurate are these

    Seni (Senj) Senones
    Sava River Sequsiani
    Pannonia Secunda (Coastal Dacia) Dacii/Thracii
    Dubrovnik Dumonii / Domnanii
    Swabia Aedui Baiocasses
    Bregenz & Brenner Brigantes
    Gati (Sankt Stefan im Gailtal) Cath [Latin: Quadi Suevi]

    actually gati should be gatti which was a celti-illyric name for Raeti
    In a nutshell, this looks like 90% as complete nonsense. There were no Senones or Dumnoni in Croatia, for starters. Also, in a different kind of crazy is that the original name of "Dubrovnik" was actually "Ragusa".

    I also don't see how anybody would make the connection between Swabia, the Baiocasses and the Aedui. You can't just randomly mention tribes and regions out of context and claim they are related, can you?!

    The only thing that I sparked there that is actually accurate: Bregenz (Brigantion) was actually the main town of the Vindelician Briganti.

    Besides, I'm totally clueless what you're arguing here, anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    In a nutshell, this looks like 90% as complete nonsense. There were no Senones or Dumnoni in Croatia, for starters. Also, in a different kind of crazy is that the original name of "Dubrovnik" was actually "Ragusa".

    I also don't see how anybody would make the connection between Swabia, the Baiocasses and the Aedui. You can't just randomly mention tribes and regions out of context and claim they are related, can you?!

    The only thing that I sparked there that is actually accurate: Bregenz (Brigantion) was actually the main town of the Vindelician Briganti.

    Besides, I'm totally clueless what you're arguing here, anyways.

    i was wanting to know the accuracy of this link
    http://celticowboy.com/appv.htm

    because the map of the cisapine gauls in italy incorporated the Boii of Bologna.

    There are other maps of england, france, ireland, Spain etc etc showing celtic tribes , but I was interested as per the recent Boii discussion on the quadi tribe that destroyed the boii in bohemia.

    note: I do know about the republic of ragusa and thats why i used it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    i was wanting to know the accuracy of this link
    http://celticowboy.com/appv.htm

    because the map of the cisapine gauls in italy incorporated the Boii of Bologna.

    There are other maps of england, france, ireland, Spain etc etc showing celtic tribes , but I was interested as per the recent Boii discussion on the quadi tribe that destroyed the boii in bohemia.

    note: I do know about the republic of ragusa and thats why i used it.
    Oh my god... there is so much nonsense in there I don't know where to start. Whoever this is, he has zero understanding of linguistics.

    Let me take a few examples though which in particular caught my eyes:

    "Atrebates" he gives as "bear people", while in fact the name means "inhabitants".

    "Arverni" - he gives as "seed people", while in fact it means "upon-alders".

    "Biturges" (sic - actually "Bituriges") he gives as "sacred tree people", while in fact the name means "world kings".

    "Tectosages" - he gives as "flowing water people", while in fact it means "property-claimers"

    So, as you can see, it's complete nonsense. There is also an awful number of overtly non-Celtic tribes (I've noticed Iberian, Germanic, Dacian, Illyrian and Italic tribes in there... )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Well, this is certainly a possibility. The reason I remain sceptical of that is the time frame. When could they have arrived/left? And, I wouldn't necessarily think Bavaria (there is, of course, also the question about the origin of the Bavarians themselves at that) but more probably Bohemia. Specifically because the Bavarians ("Baiovarii") themselves claimed to be from Bohemia originally.



    What I wonder on is what the Slavic usage of "white" there meant. But yes, it would seem very likely that the Serbs and the Croats travelled in unison.



    The Celtic tribal name is generally understood as derived from the Celtic word for "cattle" (thereby, possibly in the sense of "cattle owner"). Cognates even exist in modern Celtic languages (Irish "Bó" - "cow", Welsh "Buwch" - "cow", Breton "Buoc'h" - "cow").



    white is west
    in order some to understand the horizon gave colours, so white is west, you find the simmilarity in a non slavic language
    in fact that is why I believe that Getae or thracians were not Slavic but towards germanic or Celtic,

    for example I give name west A a country that according the other take it as ves or wet so gives hes word wet bella A or Bes A (vesarabia, Bellarusia)

    That is explain with german language , cpmpare water and wasser the s-t

    so west or ves or wes with weiss becomes in slavic incomers Bella
    weiss serbia = Bella serbia


    (Now do understand that Daci was Getae and not Baltic or thracians were celto-germani
    while thracians were skudet ->skudra
    that romanian -au is after a germanic -au after an older dacothracian -au
    and not after the Balto-slavonization -ava)



    Now about tolisto you connected with milk,
    there is a word wηich might give another meaning
    Greek ειδυλιχιος Dolico Doliche
    italian Dolce
    English Doll

    or a toponymic like thule?

    compare the extract with Grekk ευβοια
    Last edited by iapetoc; 25-06-11 at 01:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    ancient authors suggest that word German meant "seed" and was used to denote original Celts.... Josephus is sure that original Celts are Cimmerians/Cappadocians....Strabo records Cappadocians as whiteSyrians...additional reason to argue original Celts were I2 people is for instance lack of R1b in north Africa while I2a1 is widely present, while Celts are recorded to live in Africa, Asia and Europe...who are they in north Africa if not Garamantes, advanced civilization that with irrigation systems turned Sahara into agricultural area, whose capital Germa is near town Seba?
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    You can't be seriously claiming this nonsense, can you?!?

    As far as the Celtic-speaking people got (from the Algarve to Anatolia), there were no Celts in Africa. Also, I2a1 certainly isn't "widely resent", neither is R1b completely lacking. Stop making up such stuff.
    you keep bragging with your ignorance mr. teacher wanna be...

    138 Few nations have wandered so far and wide as the Galatæ. We meet with them in Europe, Asia, and Africa, under the various names of Galatæ Galatians, Gauls, and Kelts. Galatia, in Asia Minor, was settled by one of these hordes.
    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...hlight=galatia

    now tell me where is native Celtic R1b in Africa? zero...
    but there is plenty of native I2a1 all around north Africa....
    I am convinced these I2a1 people were Garamantes and as other Gomer ( Cimmerian ) derived people were original Celts...

    so, there is your answer to who were original Celts...

    they were I2 people - Cimmerians/Gomer as indicated by Josephus, and as also guessed by several roman historians who were convinced that German (word derived from Gomer) is a name of original Celts....

    point is there were several branches of I2...
    only one of them I2b is related to people we now call Germanic...
    but all I2 are Cimmerians or Gomer in origin...

    I2a2 are east branch and they later became known as Serians/Zeruiani...and today their tribal names and genetic origin is partly preserved in Serbs, Kurds,Sarbans...
    I2a1 is south branch and gave tribal name such as Sardinians...

    I think Sherdana and Scordisci as east branch were I2a2
    but they could have also have been I2a1...

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    as per text and map , below
    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...page&q&f=false

    it would seem there where more than just boii tribe in italy, there where others further south on the adriatic sea which where celtic.

    In regards to the Taurisci, they seem to be the main tribe of the minor celtic tribe in pannonia. This map must be from around 300BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapetoc View Post
    white is west
    correct

    in order some to understand the horizon gave colours, so white is west, you find the simmilarity in a non slavic language
    in fact that is why I believe that Getae or thracians were not Slavic but towards germanic or Celtic,

    for example I give name west A a country that according the other take it as ves or wet so gives hes word wet bella A or Bes A (vesarabia, Bellarusia)

    That is explain with german language , cpmpare water and wasser the s-t

    so west or ves or wes with weiss becomes in slavic incomers Bella
    weiss serbia = Bella serbia
    you have no clue of origin though...
    it has nothing to do with linguistics...

    all steppe people use colors to designate sides of the world
    white- west, black -north, red- south, yellow -east...
    hence names such as Black sea, red sea....

    it is an ancient system...
    really ancient... and widespread...

    I think this was originally related to colors of races....but it is a bit mixed up... black (north) and red (south) are flipped....perhaps due to e.g. pole shift or climate changes?


    (Now do understand that Daci was Getae and not Baltic or thracians were celto-germani
    while thracians were skudet ->skudra
    that romanian -au is after a germanic -au after an older dacothracian -au
    and not after the Balto-slavonization -ava)
    -au and -ava are essentially same suffix...
    in Slavic Danube= Dunav, but other rivers Morava, Sava,...
    -ava is ending for feminine noun, -av for male noun...

    Dunav is male river as it is much larger than female rivers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    you keep bragging with your ignorance mr. teacher wanna be...


    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...hlight=galatia

    now tell me where is native Celtic R1b in Africa? zero...
    but there is plenty of native I2a1 all around north Africa....
    I am convinced these I2a1 people were Garamantes and as other Gomer ( Cimmerian ) derived people were original Celts...

    so, there is your answer to who were original Celts...

    they were I2 people - Cimmerians/Gomer as indicated by Josephus, and as also guessed by several roman historians who were convinced that German (word derived from Gomer) is a name of original Celts....

    point is there were several branches of I2...
    only one of them I2b is related to people we now call Germanic...
    but all I2 are Cimmerians or Gomer in origin...

    I2a2 are east branch and they later became known as Serians/Zeruiani...and today their tribal names and genetic origin is partly preserved in Serbs, Kurds,Sarbans...
    I2a1 is south branch and gave tribal name such as Sardinians...

    I think Sherdana and Scordisci as east branch were I2a2
    but they could have also have been I2a1...
    I2a1 in africa was from the vandals/visigoths

    There is also some I2a1 in sicily and puglia due to the normans , who where originally norse men from norway who settled and conquered Normandy france,
    After the french conquest , they went to sicily, after this they went to England , hasting 1066

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    correct


    you have no clue of origin though...
    it has nothing to do with linguistics...

    all steppe people use colors to designate sides of the world
    white- west, black -north, red- south, yellow -east...
    hence names such as Black sea, red sea....

    it is an ancient system...
    really ancient... and widespread...

    I think this was originally related to colors of races....but it is a bit mixed up... black (north) and red (south) are flipped....perhaps due to e.g. pole shift or climate changes?



    -au and -ava are essentially same suffix...
    in Slavic Danube= Dunav, but other rivers Morava, Sava,...
    -ava is ending for feminine noun, -av for male noun...

    Dunav is male river as it is much larger than female rivers...
    try to compare it with German austrian Donau -au
    also with Savus

    All rivers were male deities and had a female protector.

    now about North try to compare it with Noir noire and Nord
    the yellow and the red????
    red sea is after an red algae that is growing
    yellow? ?
    besides if slavic system was North = black then Black sea sould not be black but red os yellow according place of slavic people, cause they could name black a sea that was south or west or east of them.

    Black sea comes the persian axain (dark) greek axein or oxyn means rust (dark colour) and thracian-Vrygian axan or ascan, the euxinus from axeinus became after Sinope colony.
    not north sea

    as you see you are wrong about the system
    it is a wrong hear from Slavic people, not a ancient system

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    you keep bragging with your ignorance mr. teacher wanna be...
    I'm not ignorant. I'm sticking to facts, not fantasy.

    You're interpreting too much in this. When Strabo says that the Greeks encountered Celts on every continent doesn't mean that Celtic tribes settled on every continent. In fact, there's a far more plausible explanation for this: Galatian mercenaries operated in the entire eastern Mediterranean and provided service to the basically all of the Hellenistic sucessor kingdoms in the region, including at the court of the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. There's no need for a mythic Celtic kingdom in North Africa for which there is zero evidence.

    now tell me where is native Celtic R1b in Africa? zero...
    but there is plenty of native I2a1 all around north Africa....
    I am convinced these I2a1 people were Garamantes and as other Gomer ( Cimmerian ) derived people were original Celts...
    The Garamantes were Berbers. Period. End of story.

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