Celtic - Serbian parallels

[iapetoc]

Who are then then if not illyrians, I know they all spoke Venetic but where not veneti.




carians? ..they are persians, you mean carni



I never speak of borders both past and present because borders are irrelevant in discussing tribes or cultures. So I do not care about the Roman province , its about the people.



And ? All spaniards are not all castilian. Whats your point?



If strabo and Livy say different to Pliny, why do you accept Pliny?


Mythology , and zeus came from Mount Olympus and did this and that..........Just go to the facts .....



The Inn river valley's advantageous geographical position made it a natural choice for early settlers. During the Bronze Age, Illyrians populated the valley areas that proved safe areas from the threat of flooding. Remnants of Illyrian urns can be found in the districts of Wilten, Hötting and Mühlau, whilst artefacts originating from an Illyrian settlement were unearthed on the hill at Vill. Numerous districts of present-day Innsbruck bear names derived from those of the ancient settlements, such as Aldrans, Lans, Igls and Vill.

illyrian tribes in the tyrol austria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raeti#Tribes

Against Strabo, Pliny considers the Lepontii as a Celtic tribe akin to the Taurisci and classifies the Camunni as an Euganean tribe, together with the Trumplini of the neighbouring valley, Val Trompia.[14] However, neither of Pliny's comments is fatal to the identification of the Lepontii and Camunni as Raeti. The Lepontic language has been definitively classified as Celtic, but it contains non Indo-European elements in a similar way to contemporary Celtiberian in Spain. This is consistent with a Raetic origin to the Lepontii and subsequent Celtisation. As for the Euganei, their linguistic classification is uncertain. It is possible that their speech too was related to Etruscan and that they could be considered a sub-group of the Raeti nation. Alternatively they may have been proto-Italic akin to the Veneti.
In addition, it appears that "Raetia et Vindelicia" was inhabited by a number of non-Raetic tribes also. The Breuni and Genauni are classified as Illyrian by Strabo, while a number of tribes in the region such as the Caturiges and Nantuates have plausible Celtic etymologies: from catu- ("fight" or "warriors") and nantu- ("valley") respectively.[15]
In addition to the tribal names supplied by the ancient sources, the Tropaeum Alpium inscription contains a number of other names which have been identified as inhabiting the territory of Raetia et Vindelicia, based on philology and proximity to documented tribes. Eliminating those tribes that are probably Celtic (on personal names) the following list of possible Raeti tribes results:


do you understand what it says???????????????

and what you wrote???????????

and what you claim??????????????????????????


pliny makes clear difference who are the Illyrians and who are living in Illyria,
Strabo just names parts of Illyrians,

if carni and the others were Illyrians then I am airplane,

Venetic is not Illyrian
Etruscan are another story and other the Illyria although they have connection,

the theory of Hans Krahe today is off,
the mistake that we make if we follow with his laws are tremendus. especially in balkans
krahe renamed the language of Dinaric celts to Illyrian.


the Alfoldoy describes clear and sends to bucket the Albanocentrist theory of Panillyrian based on krahe

in fact the ones that Krahe names Illyrian, Greeks name it Celtic

while the ones that Greek and pliny names Illyria is what today after Alfoldy and Pohl fits
simply if we had few words more from strabo or another one then we knew surely about the centum or satem of many Illyricum parts,

the Krahe theory which he connected also with prokomy is following the same theory you share
dialect = ethnicity while from 2000 his theory is over, Pohl proved the old moto of a living language,
so a language even if it is teached takes others forms or meaning in 2 groups even if communication among those groups is not cut,
Language is a living thing that transforms thru years,


the only who still use krahe are the Albanian nationalists

 

[zanipolo]

Against Strabo, Pliny considers the Lepontii as a Celtic tribe akin to the Taurisci and classifies the Camunni as an Euganean tribe, together with the Trumplini of the neighbouring valley, Val Trompia.[14] However, neither of Pliny's comments is fatal to the identification of the Lepontii and Camunni as Raeti. The Lepontic language has been definitively classified as Celtic, but it contains non Indo-European elements in a similar way to contemporary Celtiberian in Spain. This is consistent with a Raetic origin to the Lepontii and subsequent Celtisation. As for the Euganei, their linguistic classification is uncertain. It is possible that their speech too was related to Etruscan and that they could be considered a sub-group of the Raeti nation. Alternatively they may have been proto-Italic akin to the Veneti.
In addition, it appears that "Raetia et Vindelicia" was inhabited by a number of non-Raetic tribes also. The Breuni and Genauni are classified as Illyrian by Strabo, while a number of tribes in the region such as the Caturiges and Nantuates have plausible Celtic etymologies: from catu- ("fight" or "warriors") and nantu- ("valley") respectively.[15]
In addition to the tribal names supplied by the ancient sources, the Tropaeum Alpium inscription contains a number of other names which have been identified as inhabiting the territory of Raetia et Vindelicia, based on philology and proximity to documented tribes. Eliminating those tribes that are probably Celtic (on personal names) the following list of possible Raeti tribes results:


do you understand what it says???????????????

and what you wrote???????????

and what you claim??????????????????????????


pliny makes clear difference who are the Illyrians and who are living in Illyria,
Strabo just names parts of Illyrians,

if carni and the others were Illyrians then I am airplane,

Venetic is not Illyrian
Etruscan are another story and other the Illyria although they have connection,

the theory of Hans Krahe today is off,
the mistake that we make if we follow with his laws are tremendus. especially in balkans
krahe renamed the language of Dinaric celts to Illyrian.


the Alfoldoy describes clear and sends to bucket the Albanocentrist theory of Panillyrian based on krahe

in fact the ones that Krahe names Illyrian, Greeks name it Celtic

while the ones that Greek and pliny names Illyria is what today after Alfoldy and Pohl fits
simply if we had few words more from strabo or another one then we knew surely about the centum or satem of many Illyricum parts,

your problem is that you associate illyrian with slavic or albanian....clear your head, the illyrians are not these people.

Veneti have to be illyrians ( northern illyrians ) because their capital Ateste ( Este) is a illyrian word, the carni have to be illyrian, their capital Tergeste ( Trieste ) is an illyrian word. The raetian people was named raetian by the Romans because they prayed to the same goddess as the Venetic goddess Rhaetia ( Artemis in Greek), and spoke a similar language to venetic . The venetic language was spoken by northern illyrian tribes.
Other tribes originally thought to have been Illyrians were actually related to Veneti, such as:

• Histri[10]
• Catari[11]
• Catali[12]
• Liburni
• Lopsi[13]
• Secusses[14]

and a few more which I can name. related to me means linguistically.

The veneti did not reach the alps, be it the eugenian, dolomite or julian alps

What i read is that the celts in southern Germany assimilated the illyrians around 900BC in the alps as their languages where similar ( you can see this assimilation as time passes also in pannonian area, eastern alps, dalmatian lands etc etc ) , over time, venetic disappeared into either an italic version or a celtic version.

Venetian archives says , the veneti became germainc -celts in customs , while the carni became gallic-celts by customs. Actually the carni ( who are friulian people) still speak today a ancient southern french language mixed with venetian and italian.

Strabo, Livy, Polybius, Herodorous say the same things, Pliny is the odd one out.

 

[iapetoc]

where herodotus say that?
where polyvius say that?

simply I don't get your point and you don't get mine,

I say clearly something,
the group you name Illyrians are Venedi, or celtic

maybe you don't accept myths, ok,
then exept vennedi who are not mentioned in the myth, the rest are Celtic, exept Illyria proprie, the case of a before-celtic then we must search if it was IE or not,

by what I understand you seek the celtic branch ?
or the venedic branch?
and who was germano and who was galato?

it is hard for me, this time of hour,

simply -este is after Italic version
in Romanian is -Esti
in greek is εστη εστι
and means nest
so Tergeste could means nest of terg
while trieste means nest of trie

so bucur-esti is illyrian and esti-onia are Illyrians?

yes you are right

buda-pesti is illyrian,

rhaetia = Artemis?

sory i can't follow you I am tired,.
explaine clear what you search and you believe,

 

[zanipolo]

where herodotus say that?
where polyvius say that?

simply I don't get your point and you don't get mine,

I say clearly something,
the group you name Illyrians are Venedi, or celtic

maybe you don't accept myths, ok,
then exept vennedi who are not mentioned in the myth, the rest are Celtic, exept Illyria proprie, the case of a before-celtic then we must search if it was IE or not,

by what I understand you seek the celtic branch ?
or the venedic branch?
and who was germano and who was galato?

it is hard for me, this time of hour,

simply -este is after Italic version
in Romanian is -Esti
in greek is εστη εστι
and means nest
so Tergeste could means nest of terg
while trieste means nest of trie

so bucur-esti is illyrian and esti-onia are Illyrians?

yes you are right

buda-pesti is illyrian,

rhaetia = Artemis?

sory i can't follow you I am tired,.
explaine clear what you search and you believe,

why do you think that venice was placed under the eastern Roman Empire and not under the western Roman empire,...........because the romans kept tribal peoples together, since dalmatia and istria was illyrian , and under the east roman empire, the romans placed venice and the veneti under the eastern empire. same race , same tribal people.


misspelt reitia before
Reitia (Venetic: ????????????:??????:????????????:??????) is a goddess, one of the best known deities of the Adriatic Veneti of northeastern Italy. While her place in the Venetic pantheon cannot be known for certain, the importance of her cultus to Venetic society is well attested in archaeological finds. A large body of votive offerings on pottery and metal objects has been found at a Venetic shrine in Baratella, near Este.

 

[zanipolo]

where herodotus say that?
where polyvius say that?

simply I don't get your point and you don't get mine,

I say clearly something,
the group you name Illyrians are Venedi, or celtic

maybe you don't accept myths, ok,
then exept vennedi who are not mentioned in the myth, the rest are Celtic, exept Illyria proprie, the case of a before-celtic then we must search if it was IE or not,

by what I understand you seek the celtic branch ?
or the venedic branch?
and who was germano and who was galato?

it is hard for me, this time of hour,

simply -este is after Italic version
in Romanian is -Esti
in greek is εστη εστι
and means nest
so Tergeste could means nest of terg
while trieste means nest of trie

so bucur-esti is illyrian and esti-onia are Illyrians?

yes you are right

buda-pesti is illyrian,

rhaetia = Artemis?

sory i can't follow you I am tired,.
explaine clear what you search and you believe,

why do you think that venice was placed under the eastern Roman Empire and not under the western Roman empire,...........because the romans kept tribal peoples together, since dalmatia and istria was illyrian , and under the east roman empire, the romans placed venice and the veneti under the eastern empire. same race , same tribal people.


misspelt reitia before
Reitia (Venetic: 𐌓𐌄:𐌉:𐌕𐌉:𐌀) is a goddess, one of the best known deities of the Adriatic Veneti of northeastern Italy. While her place in the Venetic pantheon cannot be known for certain, the importance of her cultus to Venetic society is well attested in archaeological finds. A large body of votive offerings on pottery and metal objects has been found at a Venetic shrine in Baratella, near Este.

 

[iapetoc]

why do you think that venice was placed under the eastern Roman Empire and not under the western Roman empire,...........because the romans kept tribal peoples together, since dalmatia and istria was illyrian , and under the east roman empire, the romans placed venice and the veneti under the eastern empire. same race , same tribal people.


misspelt reitia before
Reitia (Venetic: ????????????:??????:????????????:??????) is a goddess, one of the best known deities of the Adriatic Veneti of northeastern Italy. While her place in the Venetic pantheon cannot be known for certain, the importance of her cultus to Venetic society is well attested in archaeological finds. A large body of votive offerings on pottery and metal objects has been found at a Venetic shrine in Baratella, near Este.

and what makes you connected with Greek Artemis, and not with the pre-greek Rhea?

well by using wrong names you create confusion,
so Venedi language is the Illyrian language you speak about?

 

[iapetoc]

why do you think that venice was placed under the eastern Roman Empire and not under the western Roman empire,...........because the romans kept tribal peoples together, since dalmatia and istria was illyrian , and under the east roman empire, the romans placed venice and the veneti under the eastern empire. same race , same tribal people.


misspelt reitia before
Reitia (Venetic: 𐌓𐌄:𐌉:𐌕𐌉:𐌀) is a goddess, one of the best known deities of the Adriatic Veneti of northeastern Italy. While her place in the Venetic pantheon cannot be known for certain, the importance of her cultus to Venetic society is well attested in archaeological finds. A large body of votive offerings on pottery and metal objects has been found at a Venetic shrine in Baratella, near Este.

and what makes you connected with Greek Artemis, and not with the pre-greek Rhea?

well by using wrong names you create confusion,
so Venedi language is the Illyrian language you speak about?

 

[how yes no 2]

why do you think that venice was placed under the eastern Roman Empire and not under the western Roman empire,...........because the romans kept tribal peoples together, since dalmatia and istria was illyrian , and under the east roman empire, the romans placed venice and the veneti under the eastern empire. same race , same tribal people.


misspelt reitia before
Reitia (Venetic: ������������:������:������������:������) is a goddess, one of the best known deities of the Adriatic Veneti of northeastern Italy. While her place in the Venetic pantheon cannot be known for certain, the importance of her cultus to Venetic society is well attested in archaeological finds. A large body of votive offerings on pottery and metal objects has been found at a Venetic shrine in Baratella, near Este.

hm, interesting.....
Reitia can be origin of tribal and area names such as Raetia, Thracians, Rascians, Russians, Rasena (etruscans)...
e.g. Serbs whose medieval state was Raška were called

Raci (Раци, Hungarian: Rác, (pl.) Rácok, German: Ratzen, Raize, (pl.) Raizen, Ratzians, Rasciani, Rascians) was a name used to designate Serbs, or sometimes, in a wider perspective, all South Slavs,[1] in the Middle Ages and the early modern times.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raci)

modern Serbs are recorded to arrive from land Boika that from given description can only match land of Boii or Bohemia, which is supported by increased I2a2 frequencies in southwest Bohemia (2-3 times more than the rest of Czech republic..e.g 14.6% in Klatovy and 9.2% in Pisek compared to around 4% in towns more east and north...see http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.20500/abstract ).... in that land they were also known as "white" same as Croats...

http://books.google.nl/books?id=3al...istrando imperio&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q&f=false


important to note that Sorviodurum (today this is Straubing) is a town in east Germany on border
with southwest Bohemia...on other side of border in southwest Bohemia are two towns named Srby

whole area was part of Raetia and Sorviodurum was one of notable towns of Raetia....

in Raetia besides Raetians lived Vindelici...

*windo = white in proto-Celtic
wends = Slavs, even now for Sorbs
venti = wind gods...
Jordanes says early Slavs are from populous race of Veneti..

In Venetic, she is given the epithets Śahnate, the Healer, and Pora, the good and kind. She was also a deity of writing; Marcel Detienne interprets the name Reitia as "the one who writes" (cf. Proto-Germanic *wreitan- 'to write'). Inscriptions dedicating offerings to Reitia are one of our chief sources of knowledge of the Venetic language [1] The Romans identified her with Juno.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reitia

Slavic people (Sloveni) also have name derived from writing
"Slovo" = alphabet letter...
though some people suggest that Slavic name is related to "Slava" = glory... I am convinced it was about alphabet letter /writing...

e.g. in language of Laz people
Supara (სუპარა) – book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laz_language

and Procopius speaks of Slavs previously known as Spori...

 

[zanipolo]

i cannot see any slavic in this link

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...Q6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=veneti illyrian&f=false

it has getae and dacian, illyrian, celtic .........most nations.............just read all you can

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

There was never any Celtic settlement saturation in the region of Serbia. The most significant settlement, both in terms of population numbers and length, occurred in France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Britain. The Alpine regions also had reasonably strong levels of Celticity, although not as enduring as in the west of Europe.

 

[spongetaro]

The Alpine regions also had reasonably strong levels of Celticity, although not as enduring as in the west of Europe.

The Alpine regions are the craddle of Celtic culture and languages. When Iberia was conquered by the Roman, Most of Alpine region was still Celtic

 

[iapetoc]

There was never any Celtic settlement saturation in the region of Serbia. The most significant settlement, both in terms of population numbers and length, occurred in France, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Britain. The Alpine regions also had reasonably strong levels of Celticity, although not as enduring as in the west of Europe.

in fact even in minor asia we have celtic settlement
Galatia

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

The Alpine regions are the craddle of Celtic culture and languages. When Iberia was conquered by the Roman, Most of Alpine region was still Celtic

The evidence from the Atlantic School (see Celtic from the West 2010, Cunliffe and Koch) strongly suggests that Celticity developed separately (and perhaps earlier than in the Alpine regions) in Iberia and the rest of Atlantic Facade.

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

There was no Celtic settlement saturation and longevity in Asia Minor.

 

[Knovas]

The hurt Galata sculpture is an important testimony of Celtic presence in Asia Minor. However, I don't think that much of this tribes survived till present day there.

 

[iapetoc]

There was no Celtic settlement saturation and longevity in Asia Minor.

NO NO NO
there is a P-celtic family of languages and tribes in Dalmatia, illyria, Greece, Pannoni, basin,
we found gaulish words in Hommer,
Just think the Greek horse is Ippos can you find another IE family with word Ippos? exept Gaulish?
exept if Homer visit the celts in France Iberia or Belgium (Galatians) and learn it from there,
every body knows that, they were Gaul Celts with influence from Germanic,

the center of P-celts is not ireland or iberia or England,
another story the P-Celts and another the Q-celts

No body said about long Living,
in fact in some areas in Romania they were same speaking with Romano-Celtic,
I think OVid say learn the language in 1 month.

the ones the maciamo names as Dorians and Zanipolo as Ilyrians are P-Celtic of the balkans,

tell your school to come and see relics and search, and reconsider

The hurt Galata sculpture is an important testimony of Celtic presence in Asia Minor. However, I don't think that much of this tribes survived till present day there.

correct
All adopted the Roman language as Romano Celtic or enter Greek Language,
with time did not survived the language except in some Aromani in Balkans and remnants relic of older language in modern like Slavic Albanian and Greek

besides you can from gennetists to tell you about,

 

[spongetaro]

The evidence from the Atlantic School (see Celtic from the West 2010, Cunliffe and Koch) strongly suggests that Celticity developed separately (and perhaps earlier than in the Alpine regions) in Iberia and the rest of Atlantic Facade.

Iberia and its Iberian, Tartessian, Basque, Lusitanian languages is the most unceltic part of Western Europe. BTW Archeology gives us evidence of Celtic "saturation" (I know that you Spaniards like this word taken from wikipedia) in the Alpes region before the Atlantic façade

 

[spongetaro]

NO NO NO
there is a P-celtic family of languages and tribes in Dalmatia, illyria, Greece, Pannoni, basin

Anyway, Celts and Dorians are both derived from the Urnfield culture. But Historins like Herodotus never mentions the Dorians as "Celts"

 

[Knovas]

Archeology also gives evidence of strong Celtic presence in Iberia. Doesn't matter if Irland and/or Britain have more significant Celtic background. I don't think this is an argument to downplay.

 

[spongetaro]

Archeology also gives evidence of strong Celtic presence in Iberia. Doesn't matter if Irland and/or Britain have more significant Celtic background. I don't think this is an argument to downplay.

Celtic presece in parts of Iberia only that exclude the west (Lusitanian), the south (Tartessian and phoenicians), the east (Iberian), the Central-North (Basque country) while both Ireland and Britain were fully Celts like the whole Alpine region