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Thread: Celtic - Serbian parallels

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    endri what is your problem?

    1) A river etymology doesn't prove anything rather than Morava got named by the Celts during their invasion in the Balkans since river, mountain names tend to stick and stay relatively unchanged during time...
    yes i believe that this is Celtic name. not Gaelic. who celts are is the main question here.

    2) Take those Gaelic/Celtic words, from the time period it's being discussed, apply the Serbian language rules, will you end up with the modern words? I doubt...
    dubh - dubok. place names in Serbia with dubok root: dubocica, dubica, dubrava...

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    but this is the one i was looking for:

    The proof that there is a link between north Africa and the Gaelic countries.

    Scotland's DNA also found that more than 1% of all Scotsmen are direct descendants of the Berber and Tuareg tribesmen of the Sahara, a lineage which is around 5600 years old.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17740638

    i could bet that the percentage in ireland is even greater. in ireland blacks are caled "blue people" which is the name for tuaregs.

    and this:


    origin of the Gaels - who by conquering and integrating with Pictish northern tribes created the Kingdom of Alba - has been debated by historians for centuries. The earliest historical source comes from around the 10th Century and relates that the Gaels came from Ireland in about 500 AD, under King Fergus Mor.
    However, more recently archaeologists have suggested the Gaels had lived in Argyll for centuries before Fergus Mor's invasion.
    The study also suggested an east-west genetic divide seen in England and attributed to Anglo-Saxons and Danes was evident in the north of Scotland.
    This was noted in places far from Anglo-Saxon and Danish settlements, indicating that this division was older and may have arisen in the Bronze Age through trading networks across the North Sea.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/s...ds/7976510.stm


    Britan was a mixing pot between Gaels and Gauls, Vends, Germans (Celts???).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    endri what is your problem?
    I beg your pardon but why should i have a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    dubh - dubok. place names in Serbia with dubok root: dubocica, dubica, dubrava...
    Ok, since you didn't understand it, I'm gonna break it into "smaller" pieces for you...

    Dubh and Dubok are the modern day form of the words or the "old"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    Zanipolo

    Gaelic word for “big” is Mór. (Pronounced as the English word more)
    Gaelic word for “river” is Abhainn . (Pronounced “awon” similar to the English word award)
    In Serbia there is a river Morava.
    Morava = mor + ava = Mór Abhainn = big river Morava is the biggest river in the territory which was once inhabited by Tribali.
    Today in eastern Serbia Vlasi (Vlahi) say “mare” for big. Celts called themselves “Valahi”…
    In Ireland there is a river named The Avonmore River (Irish: Abhainn Mór, meaning "big river")
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Avonmore
    It is interesting that Mór Abhainn is grammatically incorrect in modern Gaelic languages. It should be Abhainn Mór. But there is an example of the same grammatical incorrectness in Ireland.
    Dublin = dub linn = dubh linn = deep pool. In modern Irish the word dubh means black, but in proto Celtic it means deep. The Serbian word for deep is dubok. Word for depth is dubina. Dublin was the name of a Viking settlement, and is grammatically incorrect in Irish, the correct being linn dubh.
    All of this is very interesting.
    I'm very interested in etymology and play to find some cognates in different languages dictionaries - but do leave the "professionals" doing their job: it stays some scientists or scholars that can learn us somethings because they began before us and took advantage of more than a century of hard labour from ancient scientists, even of their mistakes... amateur etymology runs very often into the wall - WITHOUT OFFENSE TO ANYBODY (I'm an amateur too)
    to come back to the thread, and after reading B.SERGENT (about the I-Eans) I believe that it is not surprising seeing cognate I-E words in celtic and serbian languages, : 1) in fact these serbian words are often all-slavic words - 2) according to a recently dominent stream among linguists it seams that proto-Celtic-italic keep long time enough in contact in eastern Europe with future çatem groups (not especially Slavs but some protos-X : Phrygians, Thracians, Illyrians, proto-Albanians)
    - surely they could keep some common vocabulary with South I-Eans ...
    concerning Y-HGs I consider Y-I2a1b as a pre-Neolithic pre-I-E group but placed very well to firstable take advantage of agriculture and to mix after that with steppes I-Eans - as mentioned by other "posters" here this HG (and some cousin ones even if less numerous) seams having occupied lands between Trans-Sylvania, Carpathes, Galicia, Moldavia, Western Ukraina since a long time: and is proximity (and demic mixture) with previous "pure" Neolithic cultures seams proved by the gradiant in this large area of autosomal genes qualified as "mediterranean" & "west-asian" -
    except for the 'corded' people passed by North, I think that all the future western I-E speaking "teachers" was obliged to pass through one of these regions (and that B.B.s evolved firstable in these regions before "osmosing" some of their cultural traits with those of some Steppes tribes) -
    little detour not too far from the thread:
    perhaps it's this I2a1b element that "choosed" (hazard and contraints) the 'centum' versant of I-E, the others turning in a 'çatem' one??? Among Balts, first Slavs, Indo-Iranians, R1a is dominent, I2a1 is less present or absent - Among Southern Slavs (slavized for a big part) Y-I2a1 is dominent (more than a source I think) and the palatizing of these southern slavic languages seams less strong than in Western or Eastern slavic languages, AS IF learned but not natural to them: I think to the tendency to produce sounds near the 'jod' /j/) - a genetic element or a population with its own genetics and its own habits can change the language learned from foreign elites or learned by fusion of populations -

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post


    dubh - dubok. place names in Serbia with dubok root: dubocica, dubica, dubrava...

    Name is much more present in Croatia, In Serbia there is only 1 i think.

    Dub= old word for Oak

    Dubrava, Dubrovnik...etc usually designates a place near oak wood ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I hope you are making a joke here concerning 'mare' , 'mer', mar' (& 'madre') ?!?
    what do you mean joke.

    check page 172 of the link, it has both words.
    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...q=mare&f=false

    I get the feeling you believe every propoganda that nations tell you about languages.

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    Endri
    Thanks for being so considerate and helping me understand the depths of your wisdom.

    Dubh and Dubok are the modern day form of the words or the "old"?
    Both these words are very old

    moesan

    I'm very interested in etymology and play to find some cognates in different languages dictionaries - but do leave the "professionals" doing their job: it stays some scientists or scholars that can learn us somethings because they began before us and took advantage of more than a century of hard labour from ancient scientists, even of their mistakes... amateur etymology runs very often into the wall - WITHOUT OFFENSE TO ANYBODY (I'm an amateur too).
    to come back to the thread, and after reading B.SERGENT (about the I-Eans) I believe that it is not surprising seeing cognate I-E words in celtic and serbian languages, : 1) in fact these serbian words are often all-slavic words - 2) according to a recently dominent stream among linguists it seams that proto-Celtic-italic keep long time enough in contact in eastern Europe with future çatem groups (not especially Slavs but some protos-X : Phrygians, Thracians, Illyrians, proto-Albanians) - surely they could keep some common vocabulary with South I-Eans ...


    How do you know that I am an amateur? You know nothing about me and am just wandering is it the weakness of my argument that made you conclude that? Or are you resorting to “you have no idea what you are talking about because you are an amateur” argument, because you don’t like what I am saying? Maybe it is because what I am saying is shaking the pedestal of the “Celts”?
    And I have to say I love how first you tell me to stop meddling into etymology because I am an amateur, then you say that you are an amateur, and then you proceed by giving me a lecture on etymology?!?

    Dalmat

    Name is much more present in Croatia, In Serbia there is only 1 i think.
    Dub= old word for Oak
    Dubrava, Dubrovnik...etc usually designates a place near oak wood ;)
    No problem with that. When I talk about Serbian, I mean south Slavic languages. Dub does mean oak but considering that Dublin is the name of a Viking settlement given to it by Vikings and not the Gaels, I believe that they wanted to denote a deep pool for mooring ships and not the oak forest.

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    funny how you mentioned a city called Dubrovnik when this name only appeared in 1918 , it was originally called Ragusa. Dubrovnik must have been its slang name in the middle ages

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    Endri
    Thanks for being so considerate and helping me understand the depths of your wisdom.



    Both these words are very old

    moesan

    [/I]

    How do you know that I am an amateur? You know nothing about me and am just wandering is it the weakness of my argument that made you conclude that? Or are you resorting to “you have no idea what you are talking about because you are an amateur” argument, because you don’t like what I am saying? Maybe it is because what I am saying is shaking the pedestal of the “Celts”?
    And I have to say I love how first you tell me to stop meddling into etymology because I am an amateur, then you say that you are an amateur, and then you proceed by giving me a lecture on etymology?!?
    Don't get too defensive Dublin, it's not about you, it's about what you wrote. To be more credible, try using sound laws of said languages to reconstruct proto/root words, the way professionals do. So far you have only similar sounding words, of different meaning, in different languages, that's all. And yes, that's the weakness of your argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    but this is the one i was looking for:

    The proof that there is a link between north Africa and the Gaelic countries.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17740638
    1% of some unspecified lineage in Scotland (I presume E1b-M81?) that could have entered Europe as early as 5600 years ago (per this link) is proof of a "link" between North Africa and Gaelic countries? It's a pretty weak one.

    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    i could bet that the percentage in ireland is even greater. in ireland blacks are caled "blue people" which is the name for tuaregs.
    Assuming I'm right that they're talking about E1b-M81, then Ireland also has frequencies of ~1%.

    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    Britan was a mixing pot between Gaels and Gauls, Vends, Germans (Celts???).
    Where do you get "Vends" from? Anyway, I imagine Britain as having 8 main influxes:
    (1) pre-Celtic peoples (identifiable by some forms of Y-DNA I2, like I2a2a1 and I2a1a*-Gen)
    (2) proto-Gaels (identifiable mainly by R1b-L21, as most British R1b-L21 probably traces back to them... their descendants are a clear majority on the Celtic fringe)
    (3) Halstatt/La Tene and Halstatt/La Tene-influenced Celts (identifiable by R1b-U152, I2a2b, and others)
    (4) Belgae (difficult to distinguish from others)
    (5) Romans and their troops (probably brought a lot of the J2, E1b, and R1b-U152 in Britain)
    (6) Anglo-Saxons (identifiable by R1b-U106, I1-Z58, I2a2a-Cont, and others.. reaches a majority in places like East Anglia)
    (7) North Germanic peoples (identifiable by I1-L22, and brought much of the R1a and some of the R1b-U106 in Britain)
    (8) Normans (difficult to distinguish from others)

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    Lebrok
    I don’t see any weakness in my arguments. Which similar sounding words with different meaning did I use? Please explain where my arguments were weak and why. I am always willing to learn.
    And how about this example:

    The modern English word druid derives from the Latin druides (pronounced [druˈides]), which itself was considered by ancient Roman writers to come from the native Celtic Gaulish word for these figures.[9][10][11] Other Roman texts also employ the form druidae, while the same term was used by Greek ethnographers as δρυΐδης (druidēs).[12][13] Although no extant Romano-Celtic inscription is known to contain the form,[9] the word is cognate with the later insular Celtic words, Old Irish druí ("druid, sorcerer") and early Welsh dryw ("seer").[11] Based on all available forms, the hypothetical proto-Celtic word may then be reconstructed as *dru-wid-s (pl. *druwides) meaning "oak-knower". The two elements go back to the Proto-Indo-European roots *deru-[14] and *weid- "to see".[15] The sense of "oak-knower" (or "oak-seer") is confirmed by Pliny the Elder,[11] who in his Natural History etymologised the term as containing the Greek noun δρύς (drus), "oak-tree"[16] and the Greek suffix -ιδης (-idēs).[17] The modern Irish word for Oak is Dara, as it derives to anglicised placenames like Derry, and Kildare (literally the "church of oak").
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid

    Original proto “celtic” word is drvid or dervovid.
    Drv – dervo – means tree in Serbian.
    in Serbian Vid – means sight, videti means to see, predvideti means to foresee.
    But also
    in Serbian Veda – means a story, vedati, pripovedati means to tell a story, propovedati means to preach.
    And also
    in Serbian vidati means to cure to treat ill person, heal, vidar is a healer.
    Seer, preacher, healer – all attributes of a shaman.
    So drvid = drv – vid = tree shaman – tree worship priest,
    The only translation that makes sense does not come from Gaelic languages, but from IE languages. You would expect that if this was a Gaelic religious title that the word would have deep meaning in Gaelic languages, but it doesn’t. This is what Irish Gaelic dictionary has to say about meaning of the word druid:
    One would expect something like holy man, seer, tree man or priest, something that has anything to do with “Celtic” religion. How is this possible? It is possible because druids were not Gaelic holy men, they were Celtic holy men. And Celts were not Gaels. But who were Celts then I wander??? And where did they come from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    Both these words are very old

    Ok, you still don't get it...I'm not asking you how old this words are but rather if these forms "duboh" and "dubok" are the modern form of these words or rather the old form...

    If they are the "Old" form of the words, whats their modern form and if they are the modern form whats their old form?

    And since I don't speak any slavic language (unfortunately) i checked on Google Translate and it appears that "dub" is present in ALL slavic languages and in ALL means Oak, while on South-West Slavic is an old word for "oak", in all the rest, including Macedonian and Bulgarian is the main word for "oak", and further more it seems that rather being a loan word from Celtic to Slavic or vice-versa is a PIE word in the Slavic languages.

    Compare Slavic "dub", Welsh "derw", Irish "dair" and Greek "drys". All from PIE *deru, if I'm not mistaken. Taranis could be more of help here...

    So to conclude, only cause 2 words seem similar at first, or cause their meaning is sorta the same, or that you give a similar meaning does not necessarily mean anything, unless you can prove it by the respective language sound law, which you can't and until you do this is just a theory and crazy one, like those on YouTube...

    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    Endri
    Thanks for being so considerate and helping me understand the depths of your wisdom.
    It's a pleasure. I'm highly honored to help you at getting a better understanding on linguistic, as much as I can help and share with your person my immense knowledge and wisdom. I'm delighted to have helped you expand your knowledge...

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    sparkey

    The Irish geneticists expect that the percentage of the north African genes in Ireland will be a lot greater. I suppose we can only wait and see.
    As for wends
    Word Viking or vyking was a Scandinavian word originally used to describe Wendish (Slavic) pirates from southern shores of the Baltic and later both Wends and Danes. A lot of Danes are Converted Wends. There are a lot of original documents that talk about these conversions. The Wendish – Slavic navy has controlled the eastern Baltic since at least the fifth century. There are also recorded raids of the Norse settlements by the Wendish Vikings, which shows that they were venturing out of the Baltic and into the Atlantic.

    http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf

    The “Viking” was not used as a term to describe the people from the north who settled in Britain and Ireland until very recently. Neither was the word “Norse” used. In England they called them Danes. In Ireland they called them Gall.

    is Dublin the same type of place name like Berlin, Lublin and other north Slavic place name? Dublin - deep place.

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    endri

    Thank you very much. You have opened my eyes, and i am not being sarcastic. Dub does mean deep but in case of Dublin, i think you are right. it probably was the oak place, place with many dubs oaks. Oak, apart from being the sacred tree of both "Celts" and Slavs, (but not the Gaels, they had Holly) was also the main building material for Wendish ships, as opposed to Norse ships which which were mostly built of pine. From that point of view Ireland was a very important as it was in the early medieval time covered in old oak forests. Dublin is in old Irish pronounced dubljin. dubljin in Serbian is an adjective meaning full of oaks. Maybe this is why Gaels called first "Vikings" dubh gall. Irish historians have no explanation for this name by the way.
    In Serbia there are many place names built in the same way: Vrčin, Beljin, Kovin, Vidin...
    Current Irish interpretation is just transliteration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    what do you mean joke.

    check page 172 of the link, it has both words.
    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...q=mare&f=false

    I get the feeling you believe every propoganda that nations tell you about languages.
    Zanipolo, I rewrite here your previous post:

    i tend to agree, even in Italy today ( and the past) an example would be
    Mare in Italian means the Sea
    Mare in venetian means Mother
    same nation , same word , different meaning. Since venetian is older then italian , then one can only speculate that Mare for sea in italian was a combination of venetian Mar and french Mer. .......A typical way of Italian to express itself as being different.

    Sorry if I maid a mistake but I was thinking you was doing a link concerning meaning between the venetian 'mare' and the italian (toscan,) 'mare' and that you thought the italian 'mare '("sea") was a kind of mixture between french and other italic languages -
    french 'mer', venetian 'mar' (according to you), italian 'mare' = "sea"
    french 'mère', venetian 'mare', italian 'madre' (< 'mater') = "mother" (I add catalan has 'mare' too for "mother") -
    nothing in common for the meaning
    - maybe I didn't understand too well your way of thinking? Don't be offensed, everyone here supports his own view in a first stage, it is normal...
    s

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    sparkey

    [---/As for wends
    Word Viking or vyking was a Scandinavian word originally used to describe Wendish (Slavic) pirates from southern shores of the Baltic and later both Wends and Danes. A lot of Danes are Converted Wends. There are a lot of original documents that talk about these conversions. The Wendish – Slavic navy has controlled the eastern Baltic since at least the fifth century. There are also recorded raids of the Norse settlements by the Wendish Vikings, which shows that they were venturing out of the Baltic and into the Atlantic.

    http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf

    The “Viking” was not used as a term to describe the people from the north who settled in Britain and Ireland until very recently. Neither was the word “Norse” used. In England they called them Danes. In Ireland they called them Gall.

    is Dublin the same type of place name like Berlin, Lublin and other north Slavic place name? Dublin - deep place.
    I 'll answer your post to me after -
    about this one, I red that 'viking' was a word concerning the pirate activity, without any ethnic signification, neither wend nor other...
    concerning 'Wends' becoming 'Danes', it could explain the very too big proportion of Y-R1a compared to Y-I1 in some of the viking settlements of Brittain (Scotland, Lancahire) and Ireland, but here we need a deeper survey about subclades - surely not in everypart of the viking world, nevertheless - it's a pity Normandy is so far so poorly studied -

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Zanipolo, I rewrite here your previous post:

    i tend to agree, even in Italy today ( and the past) an example would be
    Mare in Italian means the Sea
    Mare in venetian means Mother
    same nation , same word , different meaning. Since venetian is older then italian , then one can only speculate that Mare for sea in italian was a combination of venetian Mar and french Mer. .......A typical way of Italian to express itself as being different.

    Sorry if I maid a mistake but I was thinking you was doing a link concerning meaning between the venetian 'mare' and the italian (toscan,) 'mare' and that you thought the italian 'mare '("sea") was a kind of mixture between french and other italic languages -
    french 'mer', venetian 'mar' (according to you), italian 'mare' = "sea"
    french 'mère', venetian 'mare', italian 'madre' (< 'mater') = "mother" (I add catalan has 'mare' too for "mother") -
    nothing in common for the meaning
    - maybe I didn't understand too well your way of thinking? Don't be offensed, everyone here supports his own view in a first stage, it is normal...
    s
    i was referring to Dante ( who created Italian ) in that in the late middle ages he quote the venetian word Mar with L'oc ( southern french) word Mer to create this new meaning of sea for a new identity - italian
    Because Italian was never created initially by the commune ( tribal community) but by 1 man, solely for the purpose of the merchants and artisans

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    the initial term of wend ( wendish ) only referred to baltic and finnic people, coastal people who traded by the sea.

    In the middle ages chronociles
    actual historic people called Wends or Vends living as far as northern Latvia (east of the Baltic Sea) around the city of Wenden. Henry of Livonia (Henricus de Lettis) in his 13th-century Latin chronicle described a tribe called the Vindi.

    It has already been noted that the slavs had no knowledge or use of the sea at the time of the vikings. The closeset the slavs got to the sea was when Poland captured Gradansk from the teutonic knights in the 13th century.

    But norse did capture and migrate some slavic people from Rus to scandinavia as slaves because the vikings ruled russia at that time.

    Wends were under increasing pressure from Germans, Danes and Poles. The Poles invaded Pomerania several times. The Danes often raided the Baltic shores (and, in turn, were often raided by the Wends).

    all of the above are raiding baltic people even the slavic Poles riaded wends.

    To finalise both the norwegian and danish royal houses claimed a title of kings of the Wends, but that was due to claims on lands between Mecklenburg to Estonia

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    moesan

    [/I]

    How do you know that I am an amateur? You know nothing about me and am just wandering is it the weakness of my argument that made you conclude that? Or are you resorting to “you have no idea what you are talking about because you are an amateur” argument, because you don’t like what I am saying? Maybe it is because what I am saying is shaking the pedestal of the “Celts”?
    And I have to say I love how first you tell me to stop meddling into etymology because I am an amateur, then you say that you are an amateur, and then you proceed by giving me a lecture on etymology?!?

    hopala, poor weather!
    - when I wrote about amateur's etymology I was not thinking specially to you but expressing some prudence because we have had yet the occasion to read some funny etymologies on this forum - but precisely for "tar ais" (irish gaelic) and the slavic places of Tarish I confess I have big big doubts about any kind of link, or yet I've understood nothing? - and the fact I don't agree with somebody about something is not depending of the diploms he could have -
    a detail: the order of terms in a word has changed during history of some I-E languages (it's the case of the celtic ones): so, 'mor-aban' could have existed in irish before the modern 'abhainn m(h)or' (sorry, I'm not sure for the mutation of 'mor') -
    and you seams putting a big difference between gaelic and celtic but they are linked in past - ("celtic" in linguisitic don't signify the language of the Celts of Gaul but all the akin languages shares by Goidels, Brittons, Gauls, Galates, Celt-iberes...
    and why are you thinking (just for reasonment as I have no idea about the previous Gaels religion) that a kind of "tree(oak) priest" could not be gaelic too: modern irish 'druid' has other meanings, coming from other roots but you have 'draoî' for "druide" and 'dara', 'dair', 'darach' for "oak" ...?
    YOu are working on two fronts: slavic or baltic Wends on one hand, and celtic-serbian linkage on an other, and every sort of comparison or not too evident link seams enough for you to construct what??? among your arguments, some are good, why trying to accumulate unsteady speculations with them? Just my point of view
    ôiche mhaith

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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    the initial term of wend ( wendish ) only referred to baltic and finnic people, coastal people who traded by the sea.

    In the middle ages chronociles
    actual historic people called Wends or Vends living as far as northern Latvia (east of the Baltic Sea) around the city of Wenden. Henry of Livonia (Henricus de Lettis) in his 13th-century Latin chronicle described a tribe called the Vindi.



    If I'm not mistaken Wend, Welsh, is a old germanic word to describe a stranger, therefore none germanic peoples. It was used for Balts, Slavs and Celts in equal way in antiquity by germanic tribes. Probably english word (to) Wander is of germanic origin and means to walk around, suitable to describe a stranger. After germanic expansion in middle ages to the west, there were no strangers left there to talk about. The name was left exclusively for Slavs, the closest and only neighbor to the east.


    It has already been noted that the slavs had no knowledge or use of the sea at the time of the vikings. The closest the slavs got to the sea was when Poland captured Gradansk from the teutonic knights in the 13th century.
    This is not correct. By 6th century Slavs conquered all the Baltic coast to the Denmark. They finally saw the Baltic Sea with there own eyes. What I'm not sure is how many indigenous people were left in coastal towns and continued there sea faring traditions. There are German sources to attest for the Slavic expansion in this area, because first written polish history starts at end of 9th century.
    Even though Slavs didn't have much contact with a sea, the word More (sea) is attested in all slavic languages. Looks like it is IE, as we have a close relatives in Latin and Celtic as Mare or Mor.

    If it comes to sea faring Slavs, there is not much info, nor legends, nor traditions. It means that Slavs were not sea faring people at all, except for some sea fishing. The biggest achievement of slavic middle ages sailing was in city Wolin, were they mixed with Scandinavians and became part of Vikings. All of the Baltic coast Slavs conquered were of Germanic or Baltic tribes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolin

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    endri

    Thank you very much. You have opened my eyes, and i am not being sarcastic. Dub does mean deep but in case of Dublin, i think you are right. it probably was the oak place, place with many dubs oaks. Oak, apart from being the sacred tree of both "Celts" and Slavs, (but not the Gaels, they had Holly) was also the main building material for Wendish ships, as opposed to Norse ships which which were mostly built of pine. From that point of view Ireland was a very important as it was in the early medieval time covered in old oak forests. Dublin is in old Irish pronounced dubljin. dubljin in Serbian is an adjective meaning full of oaks. Maybe this is why Gaels called first "Vikings" dubh gall. Irish historians have no explanation for this name by the way.
    In Serbia there are many place names built in the same way: Vrčin, Beljin, Kovin, Vidin...
    Current Irish interpretation is just transliteration.
    And when, do you recon, the slavic invasion of Ireland might have happened? By the sea by Slavic Vikings, between 600 to 900 CE?
    Do you think all the Celts of Ireland were of Slavic origin?
    Is celtic-Irish language Centum or Satem?

    And if somehow the Slavic Vikings came and settled couple of places (Dublin and Ballina) it was probably it. It can't explain the language and cultural shift the main celtic invasion caused.

    How much Slavic M458 or Pomeranian Z280 is in Irland?

    If you can connect more dots, than just Dublin name and hypothetical Slavic Vikings visiting Ireland, then maybe you're up to something.

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    moesan

    At the height of Slavic power in the Baltic they controlled a big parts of Denmark like Falster and lolland.

    Michael Crichton, in Eaters of the Dead, cites the earliest known eyewitness account of Viking life and society in the Ibn Fadlan Manuscript. “For the space of two days, we sailed among many islands that are called the land of Dans, coming finally to a region of marsh with a crisscross of narrow rivers that pour onto the sea. These rivers have no names themselves but area each one called “wyk” and the peoples of the narrow rivers are called “wykings,” which means the Northmen warriors who sail their ships up the rivers and attack settlements in such fashion.”
    These “region of marsh with a crisscross of narrow rivers” is Wendland, the land of Slavic Wykings.

    There is a huge new body of archaeological evidence showing than in the early medieval time there were powerful Slavic states with highly developed maritime activity (ship building, fishing, warfare, trade) in the south Baltic region.

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    Zanipolo

    Please read http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf this is based on archeological finds up to late nineties. There are lots and lots of even newer finds which prove that the whole of southern Baltic as well as eastern Germany was a Slavic land in the early medieval time. I will post links to latest finds when I have time.
    By the way “wend” is still term used for Slavs in Germany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dublin View Post
    Zanipolo

    Please read http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf this is based on archeological finds up to late nineties. There are lots and lots of even newer finds which prove that the whole of southern Baltic as well as eastern Germany was a Slavic land in the early medieval time. I will post links to latest finds when I have time.
    By the way “wend” is still term used for Slavs in Germany.
    thank you, I will read it in time

    can you read this which IIRC is from the late ninties from Vienna university

    http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/pdf/0300058462.pdf

    I think you are "hiding" the baltic people heritage. The teutonic knights was sent to pomerania and east of there to convert the pagan baltic people ( prussians, aestii, ests, lats, livs etc etc ) into christianity because the catholic king of Poland could not do it.
    You seem to be forgetting about these people.

    I have never suppored a linguistics terminology as being a genetic sign of people because it distorts history, it's like saying that all the british in england who spoke latin where Romans, its plain silly.

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    Moesan

    …for "tar ais" (irish gaelic) and the slavic places of Tarish I confess I have big big doubts about any kind of link, or yet I've understood nothing? …
    I have been living in Ireland for last 17 years. My wife is Irish and my son learns Irish in school. I am surrounded with Irish language and culture all the time. I hear and speak (a bit) of their language and know how it is used. I have many native Irish speaker friends that I can consult. I also lived in Serbia, and understand the language and its nuances. I actually went to school in Zeleznik, which has a part called “taraish”. Taraish is located beyond the end of the village. Zeleznik is long and narrow settlement located on a crest of a long and narrow wave like hill like all the other villages in this area. My parents had a summer house in a village called Vranic, which also has a part called “taraish”. Taraish is located beyond the end of the village. Vranic is long and narrow settlement located on a crest of a long and narrow wave like hill. I asked the villagers in both villages and they claim that these areas have been called taraish for as long as anyone can remember. Taraish has no meaning in modern Serbian. In Ireland tar ais is always pronounced together as taraish and means beyond, after the end. I made this connection when I went to visit my parents in their summer house with my wife. She heard us talking about taraish and asked what we were talking about. When we told her that we were talking about the area at the far end of the village, she told me that this is how you would say it in Irish as well. You cannot get this kind of insights from books but from real life and real people actually using the language.

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