Celtic - Serbian parallels

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endri

Thank you very much. You have opened my eyes, and i am not being sarcastic. Dub does mean deep but in case of Dublin, i think you are right. it probably was the oak place, place with many dubs oaks. Oak, apart from being the sacred tree of both "Celts" and Slavs, (but not the Gaels, they had Holly) was also the main building material for Wendish ships, as opposed to Norse ships which which were mostly built of pine. From that point of view Ireland was a very important as it was in the early medieval time covered in old oak forests. Dublin is in old Irish pronounced dubljin. dubljin in Serbian is an adjective meaning full of oaks. Maybe this is why Gaels called first "Vikings" dubh gall. Irish historians have no explanation for this name by the way.
In Serbia there are many place names built in the same way: Vrčin, Beljin, Kovin, Vidin...
Current Irish interpretation is just transliteration.

And when, do you recon, the slavic invasion of Ireland might have happened? By the sea by Slavic Vikings, between 600 to 900 CE?
Do you think all the Celts of Ireland were of Slavic origin?
Is celtic-Irish language Centum or Satem?

And if somehow the Slavic Vikings came and settled couple of places (Dublin and Ballina) it was probably it. It can't explain the language and cultural shift the main celtic invasion caused.

How much Slavic M458 or Pomeranian Z280 is in Irland?

If you can connect more dots, than just Dublin name and hypothetical Slavic Vikings visiting Ireland, then maybe you're up to something.
 
moesan

At the height of Slavic power in the Baltic they controlled a big parts of Denmark like Falster and lolland.

Michael Crichton, in Eaters of the Dead, cites the earliest known eyewitness account of Viking life and society in the Ibn Fadlan Manuscript. “For the space of two days, we sailed among many islands that are called the land of Dans, coming finally to a region of marsh with a crisscross of narrow rivers that pour onto the sea. These rivers have no names themselves but area each one called “wyk” and the peoples of the narrow rivers are called “wykings,” which means the Northmen warriors who sail their ships up the rivers and attack settlements in such fashion.”
These “region of marsh with a crisscross of narrow rivers” is Wendland, the land of Slavic Wykings.

There is a huge new body of archaeological evidence showing than in the early medieval time there were powerful Slavic states with highly developed maritime activity (ship building, fishing, warfare, trade) in the south Baltic region.
 
Zanipolo

Please read http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf this is based on archeological finds up to late nineties. There are lots and lots of even newer finds which prove that the whole of southern Baltic as well as eastern Germany was a Slavic land in the early medieval time. I will post links to latest finds when I have time.
By the way “wend” is still term used for Slavs in Germany.
 
Zanipolo

Please read http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf this is based on archeological finds up to late nineties. There are lots and lots of even newer finds which prove that the whole of southern Baltic as well as eastern Germany was a Slavic land in the early medieval time. I will post links to latest finds when I have time.
By the way “wend” is still term used for Slavs in Germany.

thank you, I will read it in time

can you read this which IIRC is from the late ninties from Vienna university

http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/pdf/0300058462.pdf

I think you are "hiding" the baltic people heritage. The teutonic knights was sent to pomerania and east of there to convert the pagan baltic people ( prussians, aestii, ests, lats, livs etc etc ) into christianity because the catholic king of Poland could not do it.
You seem to be forgetting about these people.

I have never suppored a linguistics terminology as being a genetic sign of people because it distorts history, it's like saying that all the british in england who spoke latin where Romans, its plain silly.
 
Moesan

…for "tar ais" (irish gaelic) and the slavic places of Tarish I confess I have big big doubts about any kind of link, or yet I've understood nothing? …

I have been living in Ireland for last 17 years. My wife is Irish and my son learns Irish in school. I am surrounded with Irish language and culture all the time. I hear and speak (a bit) of their language and know how it is used. I have many native Irish speaker friends that I can consult. I also lived in Serbia, and understand the language and its nuances. I actually went to school in Zeleznik, which has a part called “taraish”. Taraish is located beyond the end of the village. Zeleznik is long and narrow settlement located on a crest of a long and narrow wave like hill like all the other villages in this area. My parents had a summer house in a village called Vranic, which also has a part called “taraish”. Taraish is located beyond the end of the village. Vranic is long and narrow settlement located on a crest of a long and narrow wave like hill. I asked the villagers in both villages and they claim that these areas have been called taraish for as long as anyone can remember. Taraish has no meaning in modern Serbian. In Ireland tar ais is always pronounced together as taraish and means beyond, after the end. I made this connection when I went to visit my parents in their summer house with my wife. She heard us talking about taraish and asked what we were talking about. When we told her that we were talking about the area at the far end of the village, she told me that this is how you would say it in Irish as well. You cannot get this kind of insights from books but from real life and real people actually using the language.
 
zanipolo

I think you are "hiding" the baltic people heritage. The teutonic knights was sent to pomerania and east of there to convert the pagan baltic people ( prussians, aestii, ests, lats, livs etc etc ) into christianity because the catholic king of Poland could not do it.
You seem to be forgetting about these people.

The new archeological data I am talking about is from Germany. So “I” am not hiding anything. Also I am talking about early medieval period (5 century-13 century) and you are talking about late medieval time.

I have never suppored a linguistics terminology as being a genetic sign of people because it distorts history, it's like saying that all the british in england who spoke latin where Romans, its plain silly.

I am not talking about language. I am talking about discoveries of shipwrecks, cities, temples, burials…

In the Middle Ages the term "Wends" often referred to Western Slavs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wends
Sorbs (Upper Sorbian: Serbja; Lower Sorbian: Serby also known as Wends, Lusatian Sorbs or Lusatian Serbs) are a Western Slavic people of Central Europe living predominantly in Lusatia, a region on the territory of Germany and Poland. In Germany they live in the states of Brandenburg and Saxony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs


have a read of this as well:
http://www.glennjlea.ca/techwriting/berlin-swamp-slavic-or-bear-german/
 
Moesan

a detail: the order of terms in a word has changed during history of some I-E languages (it's the case of the celtic ones): so, 'mor-aban' could have existed in irish before the modern 'abhainn m(h)or' (sorry, I'm not sure for the mutation of 'mor') -

from proto “Celtic” dictionary:

river - abon, abonā, ambu, arno, *Awo-, *Awā, sindā, *srutu

http://www.wales.ac.uk/Resources/Documents/Research/CelticLanguages/EnglishProtoCelticWordList.pdf


so Morava = more + awa (pronounced morawa) = big river
or Dunav = Dun + awo, awa (pronounced dunawa, dunawo) = fortress river or border. By the way in medieval Serbian epic poetry Dunav is written and pronounced “dunavo” = dun + awo. Quite interesting...

in Serbia there are other rivers that end in ava: tamnava, resava, nishava, mlava, sava... all, I believe, Celtic names but not Gaelic.
 
endri

Thank you very much. You have opened my eyes, and i am not being sarcastic. Dub does mean deep but in case of Dublin, i think you are right. it probably was the oak place, place with many dubs oaks. Oak, apart from being the sacred tree of both "Celts" and Slavs, (but not the Gaels, they had Holly) was also the main building material for Wendish ships, as opposed to Norse ships which which were mostly built of pine. From that point of view Ireland was a very important as it was in the early medieval time covered in old oak forests. Dublin is in old Irish pronounced dubljin. dubljin in Serbian is an adjective meaning full of oaks. Maybe this is why Gaels called first "Vikings" dubh gall. Irish historians have no explanation for this name by the way.
In Serbia there are many place names built in the same way: Vrčin, Beljin, Kovin, Vidin...
Current Irish interpretation is just transliteration.

the oak tree religion is not characteristic only of the one you mention,

search the word Δρυοπες driopes which was a minor Asian tribe that came to Greece and from there went North and West,
the most famous oracle of Graioi (Greels) is named Δωδωνη dodona and oak tree was worshiped there.

the terminology Celt is after Greek authors who named a tribe in Panνoni basin as κελτος keltos

today we consider Haalstat/La Tene as land of known celtic culture and we can guess the time of proto-Celts first spoken, but how certain we are about the place that proto-Celtic were developed?

the existance of Scordiskii in Balkans in areas among Greece today Albania and Fyrom and their devastation to Serbia around Beograd, as also the existance of Serdi, much before the entrance of Galatians, at least for me means either that Celtic imported Balkans before Historical times, either that Celtic is the Driopes culture of minor Asia.

Personally I believe in Anatolian minor Asian Hypothesis, and I believe that proto-Celts were minor-Asians who moved at agricultural revolution of Europe to Central Europe and there they meet Northern Europeans Hunters and create the known culture, I believe that Celtic is culture that created when farmers meet Hunters and is the older culture that kept id until Roman times, while others created Nations in that time,

The Slavic language is considered the Language of Great Moravia which is next to the area that Greeks put Keltos, north of the Pannoni Basin and connected with it via Morava river.
so the main question is how much Celtic spoken there at the time of Cyrill wrote down and teach Slavic language,
Personally I consider Slavic as a major Σκωλοτοι scoloti-sculoti language relative, although the existance of some scattered (scatter = scord-iski) Celtic tribes in Balkans puts a question,
but if the Driopes can be considered as Celtic or proto-Celtic that means that were farmers, and coal producers who came from minor Asia,
remember driopes means oak+hole, it means the ones who can see the future though a hole in oak wood, exactly the same that Druids do.

the known areas that tribes of Driopes and Celts in Balkans are
Driopes
Lands of Myrmidones and Graioi
means Phthia and Epirus
Celts as Scordisci known moves and culture, unknown origin,
area among Albania and Fyrom and Kossyfo
there is a theory that Illyrians were IE Celts + non IE Pelasgians
Belingrad
Sophia
Celts as Galatians known historically their origin
Scanza mountains bulgaria
West Romania

so the possibility that there is Celtic DNA in Serbia is open and possible, as also some linguistic remnants in areas,
also the connection of Celtic with Slavic of Great Moravia since both IE and according authors both starting points (Pannoni Basin , Great Moravia)

But that does not mean Celts=Slavs or opposite
simply if we consider Kurgan Hypothesis that means that Celts entered Europe much before Germans or Slavs so they left remnant words behind them,
if we follow the Anatolian agricultural Hypothesis that means that Celts move all the way from Balkans to west/central EUrope and mixed with local Hunters and create the known Celtic culture, a mix of Mediterenean farmers + central/west Europeans Hunters (not Uraloid)
 
Moesan



from proto “Celtic” dictionary:

river - abon, abonā, ambu, arno, *Awo-, *Awā, sindā, *srutu

http://www.wales.ac.uk/Resources/Documents/Research/CelticLanguages/EnglishProtoCelticWordList.pdf


so Morava = more + awa (pronounced morawa) = big river
or Dunav = Dun + awo, awa (pronounced dunawa, dunawo) = fortress river or border. By the way in medieval Serbian epic poetry Dunav is written and pronounced “dunavo” = dun + awo. Quite interesting...

in Serbia there are other rivers that end in ava: tamnava, resava, nishava, mlava, sava... all, I believe, Celtic names but not Gaelic.

There is undeniable fact that there were Celts in Balkans, basically in first millennium BC till Roman Empire. Surely you will find some Celtic names still in existence today. On top of it Celtic and Slavic are IE languages and one can find tons of correlations and similarities between namings in Balkans as in Ireland. Having said that it is no proof that Slavs ever invaded Ireland. I'm talking about known Slavs after Slavic expansion of 500CE, when they showed up on a stage of history. Can you link us to these new archaeological finds about Slavic Vikings? It would be a great read for tonight.

Going back to ending "awa". In names it actually happens through Balkans and stretches to the Baltic Sea, as in Orawa or Warszawa (capital of Poland). Awa was linked to Dacians, and is popular ending in Slavic languages too. It belongs strictly to Satem family and not to Celtic Centum. Do you have any Irish name ending with awa?
Also because awa is so popular it is hard to determine what it means in words like Rawa, Orawa, Morawa. Maybe it is about Rawa and not awa?

If it comes to remaining Celts in Balkans after Balkans fell to Roman Empire, they most likely got latinized/romanized as the rest of them in the west as in Spain and France. It probably denotes close relation of Latin and Celtic languages and ease of switching from Celtic to Vulgar Latin. If it is true for the west it was probably true for Balkans too, and all Celts got quickly romanized. We know that all roman speakers in Balkans were/are called Vlahs, Valahs, Vlosi or Roma
 
zanipolo



The new archeological data I am talking about is from Germany. So “I” am not hiding anything. Also I am talking about early medieval period (5 century-13 century) and you are talking about late medieval time.

Yes, Zanipolo is know to easily jump 1000 or 2000 years in his writings.
Zanipolo, here is a map of Slavic expansion by 600CE.


I am not talking about language. I am talking about discoveries of shipwrecks, cities, temples, burials…
Did they find any slavic artifacts near Dublin?
 
lebrok

Yes, Zanipolo is know to easily jump 1000 or 2000 years in his writings.
Zanipolo, here is a map of Slavic expansion by 600CE.

There is opinion that Wends (Sorbs) lived in the Baltic even before the 5th century. The latest archaeological finds are supporting this.

Did they find any slavic artifacts near Dublin?

I was talking about Baltic. But if you are looking for Slavic finds in Ireland:

http://www.museum.ie/en/list/artefacts.aspx?article=c9f1d3b1-4474-41ef-a04e-09a6a825e141

The official opinion is that it is “Celtic” thing... but that we don’t know what it represents.
Of course in Slavic mythology this is a well known representation of Triglav.
The triglav stonehead found at Glejbjerg near Esbjerg.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~catshaman/23erils2/Image2197.JPG

Triglav / Trihead Thurs three-faced sink unearthed at the Magdalensberg (Šentlenska gora) in Carinthia, Roman period.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~catshaman/23erils2/triglav.JPG

Can you link us to these new archaeological finds about Slavic Vikings?

start with this. detail description of Slavic shipwrecks and comparason with Norse ones. lots more were discovered in last 15 years.

i will post more soon.

http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf

zanipolo

Duchy of Courland 18th century.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/2012/0519/1224316323074_2.jpg?ts=1337942620
port Windau (wends were also called Winds) at the mouth or river Venta...
Two other rivers have names that end in ava: Abava, Daugava.
There is also a place Libau which is Germanised version of Ljubice.
 
zanipolo

Duchy of Courland 18th century.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/images/2012/0519/1224316323074_2.jpg?ts=1337942620
port Windau (wends were also called Winds) at the mouth or river Venta...
Two other rivers have names that end in ava: Abava, Daugava.
There is also a place Libau which is Germanised version of Ljubice.


LOL

What the Baltic kars of courland got to do with slavic.

I am afraid you are another who was taught the propaganda book by Olga lukovic-Pjanovic.

I really do not know why you are discounting the fact that serbs are not genetic slavs, but thracians from the triballi tribe.

go read this book below
http://books.google.com.au/books?id...X&ei=9W6_T6XjEauhiAehvfS5Cg&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCTgK

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triballi

Why pretend you are something your are not?. knowing slavic languages does not make the serbs, slavic , if you believe I am wrong , then I can say you are english because you can read and write English.
Do not be ashamed the serbs are thracians and became slavic only by linguistic knowledge
 
yetos

today we consider Haalstat/La Tene as land of known celtic culture

This is exactly it. It is only a consideration. There are other ones, like that Celts were the same as Slavs or Serbs, Sorbs, Wends, Venets, Vandals, Galls (some people say that they are of the same family as Slavs but not the same)… we don’t know. But what I believe, and many Iresh historians believe is that Geals are not Celts.

so the possibility that there is Celtic DNA in Serbia is open and possible, as also some linguistic remnants in areas,
also the connection of Celtic with Slavic of Great Moravia since both IE and according authors both starting points (Pannoni Basin , Great Moravia)

But that does not mean Celts=Slavs or opposite

Well it is a possibility. And the one which is more and more plausible due to more and more finds that support it.
 
yetos



This is exactly it. It is only a consideration. There are other ones, like that Celts were the same as Slavs or Serbs, Sorbs, Wends, Venets, Vandals, Galls (some people say that they are of the same family as Slavs but not the same)… we don’t know. But what I believe, and many Iresh historians believe is that Geals are not Celts.



Well it is a possibility. And the one which is more and more plausible due to more and more finds that support it.


Well the think that we must check is since when the IE are divided to Celts and Slavic,
what is the difference except DNA? That makes Celts and Slavic 2 different families from common origin IE farmers or hunters?

that we consider starting point of the 'family'.
if you check Celtic especially Galatians seem to exist also in ancient Greek and a remarkable point is a transformation of /qw/ to qq or kk and to pp or ph
the known Q-Celtic and P-Celtic,
Seems like something like that happened in limited linguistic area in Mycenean also,
that brings Celtic also near proto-Greek but does it means that Celtic and Greek are same?

we don't know if Celts had so much influence to the other IE? or the other IE affected so much Celtic

and depends on the Hypothesis we start to search why?

But Celts are IE as Slavs as Germans as Slavs as Greeks so the connection and the parallels are obvious.

the thing I don't understand is what we are searching?
are we searching if Slavs were Celts that grow different?
are we searching if Celts were Slavs that grow different?

I don't understand what we debating here?
Serbs are considered as Slavs that came from North of Moravia
Severi are considered as Slavs that came from Ucraine,
Celts as Scordiscii and other existed in Balkans much before the entrance of South Slavs
But what we are trying to check? if Serbs were Celts?
or if Celts were Serbs?

on the other hand Serbian word for bull is Vik like Northern languages so a parallel with Germanic-Nordic exist also but can we claim that Serbs were Nordic?

To solve the mystery search the vocabulary given with all Slavic languages if exist also in Polish for example, then search the Grim's law on how the words should be, and then search if there loans of older Balcanic celts that still live in modern Serbian as a loan,

I believe that connections among Serbs and Celts exist but does not prove that Serbs were from Celtic family origin, but a pre-Slavic Celtic existance in Balkans and in Pannoni basin and Great Moravia,
the existance of Slavic culture in both Great Moravia and Ucraine links more to Scythian Σκωλοτοι relation than Celtic,

PS
the main problem about Serbia Bosnia Croats is the I2a2-DIN,
The big concentrations in Balkans especially among Serbs Croats Bosnians and Slavic Makedonians in another thread analyzed by Sparkey according Nordvert is probably synchronous (same time event) with Slavic entrance and not with older Thracian, meaning that genetically and historically we might have a clear view of the devastation, while if I2a2-DIN was elder than 2000 years than Nordvert claims we might have a solution considering it as Thracian.
 
Moesan



I have been living in Ireland for last 17 years. My wife is Irish and my son learns Irish in school. I am surrounded with Irish language and culture all the time. I hear and speak (a bit) of their language and know how it is used. I have many native Irish speaker friends that I can consult. I also lived in Serbia, and understand the language and its nuances. I actually went to school in Zeleznik, which has a part called “taraish”. Taraish is located beyond the end of the village. Zeleznik is long and narrow settlement located on a crest of a long and narrow wave like hill like all the other villages in this area. My parents had a summer house in a village called Vranic, which also has a part called “taraish”. Taraish is located beyond the end of the village. Vranic is long and narrow settlement located on a crest of a long and narrow wave like hill. I asked the villagers in both villages and they claim that these areas have been called taraish for as long as anyone can remember. Taraish has no meaning in modern Serbian. In Ireland tar ais is always pronounced together as taraish and means beyond, after the end. I made this connection when I went to visit my parents in their summer house with my wife. She heard us talking about taraish and asked what we were talking about. When we told her that we were talking about the area at the far end of the village, she told me that this is how you would say it in Irish as well. You cannot get this kind of insights from books but from real life and real people actually using the language.

sorry, I don(t doubt about your skills in irish and serbian, but these sort of comparisons can be made a thousands of times without any true connexion - it would be better trying to find a local (slavic or pre-slavic) etymology for this placename wich you know under its MODERN PROUNCIATION IN A SO FAR LAND before trying to put VERY TOO PSEUDO-EVIDENT link with your MODERN IRISH - the fact you speak irish and serbian give you NO scientific luggage and NOT more common sense than everybody else - 'tar ais' is a compound expression -
en example: pronounciation associated to occurrence or similitude:
french 'couché ' (lain) << 'collocat-(um?) I 'm not latinist' << latin 'collocare' (~= to put with)
dialectal breton 'kouchet' (asleep) << 'kousket' (brittonic celtic), v- 'kousked', welsh 'cysgu' ('cwsg')
some could say 'kouchet' comes from the same roots as french 'couché' because these modern forms are very close phonetically -
with my respect (I have tried to learn irish and gaelic but for the moment I'm in "stand by" - it is very hard but interesting...
 
lebrok



There is opinion that Wends (Sorbs) lived in the Baltic even before the 5th century. The latest archaeological finds are supporting this.

Sorry, but there are no archaeological finds about Slavic existence on Baltic Sea before 5th century CE. You see, for couple of centuries now we know from archaeological digs, that around 5th century there was a big depopulation of the central Europe, and after that period another culture showed up with much simpler pottery and tools. It exactly coincides with what we know as Slavic expansion in said area. It means that around this time there was a complete cultural and population shift. Also from historic written sources, we learned, that Germanic population vacated central Europe, and Slavic tribes repopulated same areas.
Also, I have no idea where did you get the info that Sorbs ever lived in the Baltic Sea. We are quite certain that only Polabian, Pomorian, Wieletian and Obodrit Slavs lived by Baltic Sea. Sorbs were farther south by the mountains.

I was talking about Baltic. But if you are looking for Slavic finds in Ireland:

http://www.museum.ie/en/list/artefacts.aspx?article=c9f1d3b1-4474-41ef-a04e-09a6a825e141

The official opinion is that it is “Celtic” thing... but that we don’t know what it represents.
Of course in Slavic mythology this is a well known representation of Triglav.
The triglav stonehead found at Glejbjerg near Esbjerg.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~catshaman/23erils2/Image2197.JPG

Triglav / Trihead Thurs three-faced sink unearthed at the Magdalensberg (Šentlenska gora) in Carinthia, Roman period.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~catshaman/23erils2/triglav.JPG

There is a big question mark how much Triglaw and Trojan were indeed Slavic gods. The only places these deities existed among Slavs were in Polabia (coastal east Germany) and Rus. What these areas have in common is that they were with mixed Nordic populations. Russia, which has been invaded and influenced by Norse, had Trojan, and Polabians who mixed with Nordic Vikings had Triglaw. Looks like Triglaw was originally a Nordic God. In rest of Slavic tribes there was no Triglaw god. The main deity for all Slavic peoples was Perun, Twarog and Swiatowit. Find 4 faced Swiatowit in Ireland and it would be a good beginning in believing in Slavic Vikings there.


start with this. detail description of Slavic shipwrecks and comparason with Norse ones. lots more were discovered in last 15 years.

i will post more soon.

http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/...ski-MA1996.pdf

Oh please, now we are jumping to 11-12 century into Baltic coast. This research is only about shipwrecks in Baltic Coast around 1200CE. It is much to late for anonymous invasion of Ireland by Slavs, isn't it? Did Irish archaeologists find these boats around Dublin, and dated them before 10 century? We could have something relevant then.

I'm sorry again, but all your arguments are strongly stretched to prove your hypothesis of Slavic connections with Ireland. Also your doubting of Celtic influence over Ireland is simply misplaced. There is a lot of records, of written and archaeological source about their existence, culture and language. And all these records are telling us that they were much different than Slavs. The only similarities you are getting is from both languages being IE and same at one point before at least 6 thousand years ago. Your matches come from this relation and some coincidental circumstances.

Don't you think that you like this hypotheses on grounds of your place of birth and recent place you live? You are Slav born in Serbia (or around) and you live and married in Ireland. Why wouldn't you like these two places to get connected much better? Your two homes and families, and to explain the faith of your life, setting your life journey in these two places. Wouldn't it be so nice if Ireland and Serbia were connected by same people? I'm pretty sure it gives you a nice warm feeling thinking this way, but it doesn't make it true.



PS.
Triglav / Trihead Thurs three-faced sink unearthed at the Magdalensberg (Šentlenska gora) in Carinthia, Roman period.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~catshaman/23erils2/triglav.JPG
I don't think it is true, the triglaw statue in this place. This is 2000 year old monument that gives name to the area and all I could find is one grainy, old, small picture of it, and duplicated too other websites!!!
 
During the second part of the 11th and the first part of the 12the century the Slavic naval power was at it's peak. During that same period, Roskilde in Denmark was destroyed by the Slavs. In the second half of the 20th century archeologists discovered in Roskilde a Viking ship built entirely from oak. Considering that viking ships entirely made from oak were only built by Slavs, this ship was most probably part of the Slavic invasion fleet and was sunk during the battle. When dating and dendrochronology of the ship was done it was discovered that the ship was built in 1060 from the oak that grew near Dublin Ireland.
So here we have a Slavic ship built from oak (dub) in Dublin (oak town) in the eleventh century, which then sales to the Baltic and gets sunk during one of pagan Slavic raids of christian Denmark.
 
lebrok

There is a big question mark how much Triglaw and Trojan were indeed Slavic gods. The only places these deities existed among Slavs were in Polabia (coastal east Germany) and Rus.

This is not true.


Triglav (Serbian Latin, Bosnian, Croatian and Slovenian: Triglav; Macedonian, Ukrainian, Russian, Bulgarian and Serbian Cyrillic: Триглав; Czech and Slovak: Trihlav; Polish: Trygław, Trzygłów) (meaning 'three headed') also sometimes called troglav is a deity in Slavic mythology.


It is generally believed that Triglav, the highest mountain in Slovenia and Troglav, highest peak of Dinara in Bosnia and Herzegovina were named after the god.


Triglav is depicted as representation of three major Slavic gods that vary from one Slavic tribe to others that serve as the representatives of the above mentioned realms. An early variation included Svarog, Perun, and Dajbog. Later, Dajbog was replaced by Svetovid or Veles. Triglav is usually described as a fusion of these gods.

Oh please, now we are jumping to 11-12 century into Baltic coast. This research is only about shipwrecks in Baltic Coast around 1200CE. It is much to late for anonymous invasion of Ireland by Slavs, isn't it? Did Irish archaeologists find these boats around Dublin, and dated them before 10 century? We could have something relevant then.

I can see that you have not actually read the book. Somewhere in the book there is a dating table and the earliest dating is 5 – 8 century. If you want to talk seriously please at least try to read relevant works on the subject.
Also your doubting of Celtic influence over Ireland is simply misplaced. There is a lot of records, of written and archaeological source about their existence, culture and language.

could you please give me some examples of Celtic language? Remember Gaels are not Celts. and tell me who celts are and how were they identified as Celts. and explain how did all the Serbian words get into modern Gaelic languages?

Don't you think that you like this hypotheses on grounds of your place of birth and recent place you live? You are Slav born in Serbia (or around) and you live and married in Ireland. Why wouldn't you like these two places to get connected much better? Your two homes and families, and to explain the faith of your life, setting your life journey in these two places. Wouldn't it be so nice if Ireland and Serbia were connected by same people? I'm pretty sure it gives you a nice warm feeling thinking this way, but it doesn't make it true.

is this the kind of argument you are resorting to?


If you are wandering about my reasons for thinking about Irish history, it is because a lot of the official history does not make any sense. For instance the reason why I started thinking about the meaning of name Dublin is that Dublin is not the Irish name for Dublin. Irish name is Baile Átha Cliath, meaning "town of the hurdled ford. This is the official Irish name of the city. Irish always say that Dublin is foreign name of a Viking settlement given to it by the Vikings themselves. Yet at the same time they tell you that Dublin is Irish dubn lynn which means black pool. first lynn is special type of pool which forms at the bottom of waterfalls and there is no waterfall in the dubliln area. they are still debating where the "pool" was. also why would Vikings give Irish name to their own settlement? It makes no sense yet no one is questioning it.

I don't think it is true, the triglaw statue in this place

you don't think it is triglav. why? is it because it is too old to be slavic and just old enough to be "Celtic" and would prove that celts and slavs could be related. by the way the statue from ireland was also dated to bronse age. maybe they are lying about it's existence aswell.
would you tell me then which other european deity has that three headed representation? the guys from irish national museum don't know so maybe you should enlighten them.

We know that all roman speakers in Balkans were/are called Vlahs, Valahs, Vlosi or Roma

this is not true. at one stage all balkan slavs were called vlahs. they never spoke latin. and roma are gypsies.
 
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zanipolo


I am afraid you are another who was taught the propaganda book by Olga lukovic-Pjanovic.
I really do not know why you are discounting the fact that serbs are not genetic slavs, but thracians from the triballi tribe.

it is a lot more complicated than that.
 
this is not true. at one stage all balkan slavs were called vlahs. they never spoke latin. and roma are gypsies.


well

1) it another thing Vlachs and another Wallachs

2) Roma means Romans or Roamers not gipsies
gipsy or Γυφτοι in Greek means Egyptian
yet in Roma we find many types of genes even Indian ones, but their culture seems to be ancient Balcanic mainly fitted in late Hellenistic and Roman era,
their language and systems gives many sub-nation tribes as their vocabulary,
Roma is a general name of tribes nations like
a) τσιγγανοι-cinquari-gitan
b) ρογγαροι ruegari that they are famous dancers
c) παλκο palkoni that they dance the bear
d) γυπτοι gyptian wich work mainly in fields
and many other smallers


now to understand better

a) VLACHS

Vlachs are mainly the old Latin-Roman speakers of Balkans and some of Romanian origin
they are also divided in tribes according their origin
their general name is Aromani and they are not considered as Nationality but as local since their cultures are the same with local people meaning that they exist centuries in balkans and have common history,
their difference is that they speak Latin which according their area is different and even among them there many differences, they are considered local or Romans that lived 2 000 years at least in Balkans

Wallachs or Vallachs are the one from Wallachia

there no Slav Vlachs, but Vlachs exist in South Slavic countries
Vlachs comes from Villaches the one who lived and worked in Roman Villas and not the one who are Slavs or Greeks or Albanians or Romanians

Vlachs culture is always connected with the rest of local people but they share a latin vocabulary which even in written is following the local alphabet and not Latin,


b) ROMA


Roma is a general name for many tribes and cultures,
a good example is that Roma of Romania and st Gregory their primary Saint-Helper have nothing to do with the Roma of Greece which saint is Santa Barbara and the Egyptianoids who's saint is Santa Katerina

Roma is either ancient IE word meaning roamer, either from Byzantine empire that means Roman citizen (Nova Roma)

among Roma there are Laws never written and some that reminds Hellenistic laws, and one Roma may not understand another according their origin
a good example is that Palko Roma never dance, but they dance the Bear and play so other people to dance,
while Rueggari dance all day in Streets and Festivals (ruega in their language is the street, the road)
ROma vocabulary show origin of Latin India Egypt Turks and even Huns!!! except the state-country that they exist today, like Greece Bulgaria Albania Serbia etc

So any connection of Roma and Vlachs with South Slavic people I believe is out of discuss
 
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