english | proto-Celtic | lithuanian | serbian (slavic)
ball | *glāwo- (?) | galva| glava (head)
be dark | (*teme-) | tamsa| taman (dark)
bitter | *gorsti- (?) | kartus| gorki
blame | *kʷin-u- (?) |kaltė| kinjiti
blood | *kruwos- (?) | kraujas| krv
bloody | (*krewa-) |kruvinas| krvav
bow | (*le
k- (?)) |lankas| luk
being | buti | būti| biti (to be), budi (you be)
(*curly) hair | *gourjo- | gauruotas| kovrdzava/grgurava (curly) kosa (hair)
(be) quiet | *tauso- | tyla| tiho (quiet), tišina (silence)
I added some Lith. words that I could recognise ...
great Dagne !!
can you keep doing that and also please check proto-Celtic vocabulary for other shared words...
I am curious whether Lithuanian has more or less shared words with proto-Celtic than Serbian/Slavic and what are the words that are shared... as they are probably from older times...
be free in stating words with similar meaning or similar sounds...
one of the key questions is whether these words are PIE or pre-PIE european words....
PIE could have been spread by R1b, R1a or both... or by one of I haplogroups...
we do know that R1b kind of replaced previous population of west Europe, which makes them good candidate for PIE carriers... R1a on other hand has nice continuum to Indo-Iranian areas which makes them another good candidate... in fact, there is clear nice correlation between R1b and kentum languages and R1a and satem languages...
Well, both the Welsh and the medieval Cumbrians are (in the latter case, were) Brythonic-speaking peoples.
I am not denying that....
but developments of nations and languages are weird sometimes....
Well, if you have a copy of Strabo's geography, or access to one online, you can read it there, I mentioned the chapter above.
I can search online for it as it is freely available, but I trust you...
There are similarities/shares between Albanian and Celtic, however these must be old connections via PIE, because the cognates obey to Albanian/Celtic sound laws respectively.
In Proto-Celtic, PIE *ǵh yields "g", whereas in Albanian it yields variably dh or d. For example, compare:
Gaulish "Giamos" vs. Albanian "Dhimër" (both mean winter)
in Slavic
zima = winter
Nope. The etymology of "Ordovici" is clearly Celtic:
- Old Irish "Ordd", Scots Gaelic "Òrd" (both mean "hammer")
- "-vici" can be translated very roughly as "Fighters" or "Fierce ones"
- cognate exists in Old Irish as "Fích" ("enmity", "feud")
- there are also Gaulish tribal names with similar names ("Brannovici", "Eburovici", "Lemovici").
ok
In fact, you can also check out the Proto-Celtic dictionary you provided in that link, it has entries on "Ordo-" (hammer) and "wik-" (to fight).
I am still on letter "d"
Theoretically, Serbian (or, more broadly, South Slavic) might have inherited Celtic-terms via the local Vulgar Latin spoken on the Balkans. After all, the Scordisci were certainly gradually latinized after their subjugation.
that makes sense... but many of the words are not just Serbian, they exist in other Slavic languages...
This is theoretically possible, but this would require a much closer scrutiny (I admit that I only glossed superficially through your lists).
It does not make that much sense to me to assume them in areas in which you have mostly Celtic place names in Antiquity.
well, in past there were also tribes with celtic elite or celticized...
e.g. Illyrian Dalmatians are thought to be at some point Celticized..
also for Scordisci some authors think they were not Celtic originally...
Well, I did find two possible links (both in European Sarmatia), actually, but either are very uncertain: - the "Melanchlaeni" ("black cloaks"). The problem is that their ethnicity could be anything (since the name is obviously a Greek exonym) because information on them is so vague.
- far less ambiguous, the "Savari" mentioned by Ptolemy might be the Severians.
Severians are later one of east Slavic tribes... forefathers of part of north Russians...
in fact Severians just means northeners
as sever = north
- amongst the other tribes which are not overtly Baltic (Galindae), Germanic (Goths, Bastarnae) or Iranic (Rhoxolani) that are mentioned by Ptolemy in European Sarmatia, any number might be early Slavic, but thus far I haven't found convincing etymologies or names that bear reminiscience with later Slavic names.
there are Serbi/Serboi in Asian Sarmatia, north of Alans and next to Amazones
but my point is that that was just a branch of proto-Serbs that match Seneca's Serians who live in Caspian highlands unguarded from Sarmatians, and who later were turkicized and became Sabir people (same location, similar tribal name) and today became Chuvash people (they have legend of partial origin from Sabir people and Dienekes project shows they have autosomal genetics closer to Slavic than to turkic)
also Siraces (most hellenized of all Sarmatians) on Black sea shores are thought to be same as Serboi
another link that that might be truth is a verse from medieval Montenegro high priest king poet Njegos who in a poem self-identify as Sirak in context of sad people left alone, without anyone to help.... in his times Montenegro was surrounded by Turkish teritories... in his time people of Montenegro were Serbs, in fact kind of elite Serbs who refused to be subjugated and continued fighting Turks never surrendering...his Serb self-identication is extremely clear from his poems that are very patriotic and very wise often.... people from Montenegro became separate nation only in 20th century due to communist's propaganda... even now most of them will tell their language is serbian, while their nation is montenegrin...
anyway, my point is that proto-Serbs (proto-slavs) are Serians of Seneca.... because Zeruiani mentioned by Bavarian geographer as people whose state is so big that all Slavs come from it, is clearly same tribal name as Serians, and because I can see arc of Serians from China to India in traces of haplogroup I that in Afghanistan matches quite well spread of Pasthun Sarbans..
Serians/Serres are in Europe mentioned in north of Greece, around Danube, rulling over scattered Scythians...
my conclusion was that if Serians are not Scythians and not Sarmatians they can from historic tribes only be Cimmerians...Cimmerians are Gomer people and Gomer is forefather of Germanian peoples... but in Cappadocia Cimmerians settled, and Strabo later calls Cappadocians white Syrians (again Serians tribal name), and there is I2 island there... Thraco-Cimmerians in europe also roughly spread along Danube...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thraco-Cimmerian.png
and so do later Scordisci...
and so do early slavs according to russian primary chronicle...
and so does the i2a2
note that Thraco-Cimmerian findings are also present in part of Hallstat area...
so there was probably some contact or even overlapping between Thraco-Cimmerians and Celts...
so, Gomer might have been forefather of haplogroup I2 (I2b is clear mark of all Germanic tribes except Scandinavians, I2a1 is mark of Sardinians and possibly of Garamantes in north Africa, I2a2 is mark of Slavs especially south slavs) or even of haplogroup I (including Scandinavians) ... this also fits well with my haplogroup I tribal name pattern Swedes/Suebi/Srbi (Serbs)/Sardinians/Sarbans.... I am pretty sure Scordisci/Serdi fit there too but it is question whether they were I1, I2b, I2a1 or I2a2... I2a2 is dominant in Serbia but I am sure it came wirh slavic people as it is only common point in south Slavs and what separates them from surroundings, I1 is higher in Serbia than is surroundings but that could be due to Goths and later Gepids who settled there, I2a1 so far seems not to exist there... I2b1 not specially ellevated...
so, if their tribal name is indeed part of haplogroup I pattern as i propose, Scordisci/Serdi are thus either I1 or I2a2 dominant...
if Scordisci/Serdi were I1, I would expect even larger I1 component in Serbia as pre-Slavic people would be first I1 Scordisci, than I1(+I2b) Goths, than I1 (+I2b) Gepids... so I argue that Scordisci were I2a2 people.....
but if they are I2a2 dominant they are likely same people as later Serbs, which means they retreated up the Danube to Bohemia after being subjugated by Romans... and returned down the Danube in 6th century as Serbs
Veneti would descend from Ripath who is son of Gomer... thus also haplogroup I...so far I2a* we find only on two locations - one matches Adriatic Veneti, and other Britanny Veneti...we do not find correlation of Veneti tribal name with I1...so, if Riphat and Gomer were real people, this is clue that Riphat was I2*, and Gomer probably the same as his son...
thus, I think I have lot of clues pointing in same direction....
but relation to Celtic people is not clear to me...
hence this thread...