Link between haplogroup E and poor economic performance

Regarding the question of regions and economic performance, I've created a map of some Western European countries' regions reflecting their recent GDP per capita numbers (2006, pre-crisis).

I used Eurostat's numbers, which they adjust for purchasing power parity.

I purposefully left off national political borders in this one:

GDP+per+capita+by+region+2006%252C+Eurozone.PNG



Here's a version with national political borders:

GDP+per+capita+by+region+2006%252C+Eurozone%252C+with+political+borders+indicated.PNG



I hadn't seen a map before with regional economic gradations this fine (the scale I made is shown on the right). I too, like Maciamo, am interested in how genetically-influenced character traits can affect things like economic performance, and I hope this map can be of interest / use to some here.
 
A few maps of 2006: and the rest of years, of the rest of centuries, of the rest of centenaries, of the rest of milleniums?, a few decades of fair weather and some they believe already God. If a piece is not of a certain puzle it will not fit.
 
Haha.. This map shows how figures can be misinterpreted very well.
Look at the north of the Netherlands. The region of Groningen is very dark, so the GDP per capita seems to be very high.
In reality that is a region with a relative high unemployment rate!

What kills the logic of this map is the fact that natural gas and oil is drilled in that area.
The NAM is very profitable over there, but the people don't get much from it!
In the same way Scotland gets a high rate, because of the oil industry.

Another example is Luxembourg, of course because of the banks, but they don't have much production over there.

At least the map doesn't tell anything about the people that live there.
 
A few maps of 2006: and the rest of years, of the rest of centuries, of the rest of centenaries, of the rest of milleniums?, a few decades of fair weather and some they believe already God. If a piece is not of a certain puzle it will not fit.

You can check the data of the historical GDP (PPP) per capita by country. Things do change over time obviously, but so do people and genes, and even climate. Yet some things do not change much. The Low Countries and Britain were already among the richest European countries in the 1500's, while Portugal and Eastern Europe were always at the bottom of the European league. The biggest changes are Italy and Spain. Italy was richer than the rest of Europe since Roman times, but the industrial revolution allowed countries like Britain, Belgium, France and Germany to get wealthier. Spain got immensely rich from its American colonies, then its GDP decreased steadily as the flow of resources from the colonies slowed down.
 
You can check the data of the historical GDP (PPP) per capita by country. Things do change over time obviously, but so do people and genes, and even climate. Yet some things do not change much. The Low Countries and Britain were already among the richest European countries in the 1500's, while Portugal and Eastern Europe were always at the bottom of the European league. The biggest changes are Italy and Spain. Italy was richer than the rest of Europe since Roman times, but the industrial revolution allowed countries like Britain, Belgium, France and Germany to get wealthier. Spain got immensely rich from its American colonies, then its GDP decreased steadily as the flow of resources from the colonies slowed down.

It isn't true Maciamo!
The Low Countries weren't rich!
Some pirate families were rich!

Most of the people (90%) were farmers.
They were abused by the trade of the cities.

The power of the selfish cities killed the economic progress in the Duchy of Brabant.
Protestant individuals against a common Catholic communalism.

Read Rerum Novarum to understand why it went wrong!
 
Some persons of these countries were rich, at present it is when it is possible to say that there have been reached quotas of well-being generalized for the populations at least in Occident that is what I know, but: have they put us a rocket in the bottom?, up to the date the crisises were solved by a war, overpopulation, consumerism, it is a world model with many lacks, there is nothing any more that to see the valuation of suicides that has France, and nevertheless the peoples of the poor countries kill themselves to come to Europe, while other citizens of Europe dream of returning to the nature or taking a type of life less stressed.
 
It isn't true Maciamo!
The Low Countries weren't rich!
Some pirate families were rich!

Most of the people (90%) were farmers.
They were abused by the trade of the cities.

But people living in the cities weren't?
I read somewhere that the average GDP per capita of Amsterdam was 30 times that of Paris in the XVIIth century
 
Haha.. This map shows how figures can be misinterpreted very well.
Look at the north of the Netherlands. The region of Groningen is very dark, so the GDP per capita seems to be very high.
In reality that is a region with a relative high unemployment rate!

What kills the logic of this map is the fact that natural gas and oil is drilled in that area.
The NAM is very profitable over there, but the people don't get much from it!
In the same way Scotland gets a high rate, because of the oil industry.

Another example is Luxembourg, of course because of the banks, but they don't have much production over there.

At least the map doesn't tell anything about the people that live there.


correct, I look at your notice and I find simmilar points also,

Crete is one most Turist industries as also orange and olives, but seems all their rich go to Athens who only produce what? politician, the last factory from athens is 90 KM away,
 
Beautiful maps MG, great job. Never mind the confused ones on this forum, they are always like this, lol.
 
In the map the Canary Isles are absent.
 
But people living in the cities weren't?
I read somewhere that the average GDP per capita of Amsterdam was 30 times that of Paris in the XVIIth century

Well, that were the pirate families I mentioned. Ruthless protestants who traded slaves, and grew rich from colonialism.
AKA kill whatever and whoever came across their path.

In the end the VOC and VWC became a total failure.
It did cost more than it earned, because some families took all the loot out of it.
Including the Royal Family.
The Netherlands suffered the worst economical disaster when William became King of England.
William and Mary.. King Billy, the Orange Twit.

Gibraltar was taken in 1704 by Dutch and British troops.
The Dutch went further fighting on the war of Spanish Succession, the British took a break in Gibraltar.
And they still wave their bloody Union Jack over there.
They don't even have the decency to also fly a Dutch flag!

Limeys!


The Dutch Republic lost a lot of assets because of this robbing of the state funds.
 
It isn't true Maciamo!
The Low Countries weren't rich!
Some pirate families were rich!

Most of the people (90%) were farmers.
They were abused by the trade of the cities.

The power of the selfish cities killed the economic progress in the Duchy of Brabant.
Protestant individuals against a common Catholic communalism.

Read Rerum Novarum to understand why it went wrong!

No they weren't rich. Nobody was rich by today's standards 500 years ago. Peasants made the bulk of the population in every country. But if one cared to rank the average wealth per inhabitant, some regions were undeniably better off than others, and people in North-West Europe overall enjoyed more material wealth than people in Russia or India or Mexico at the same period.

Anyhow, GDP per capita is always an average. One thing that did evolve everywhere in the developed world in the 20th century was the distribution of wealth. The gap between the rich and the poor shrank considerably, even though there is still a lot of room for improvement, especially in less socially minded countries like the USA.
 
Greeks do descend from a multitude of ethnicities : Paleolithic Balkanese (I2a), Minoans from Anatolia (J2), Caucasian (G2a) and Levantine (E1b1b, T, J1) Neolithic farmers, Proto-Indo-Europeans (mostly R1b), Celts (mostly R1b), Romans (mixed R1b, J2, J1, G2a, I2a), Bulgars (R1a), Slavs (R1a and I2a2), etc. Are you denying that too ?
Haplogroups don't equal ethnicity especially when you are talking about Neolithic farmers (E1b1b, T, J1) or Paleolithic Balkanese (I2a). Even the Indo-Europeans were not pure according to your own claim (R1b1b2, R1a1a and G2a3b1) All this haplogroups mixxed in Greece to create the Greeks (one ethnos) some time during pre-history, there never was Hindu-style segregation here (at least untill we have proof about it)... The ancient Greek nobles claimed descend from a multitude of tribes-regions most of them in Anatolia-Crete (Atridae, Minoans), Levant (Thebes) or Greece it self (Pelasgians, Hellenes, Aeolians, Dorians) so the nobles of Macedonia could be R1a1, I or E-V13 while the nobles of Crete could be J2a or R1b1b2 and the nobles of Peloponnese could be E-V13 or J2a. That's all I'm saying Maciamo...
 
The regions were E1b1b is centered were far more advanced in antiquity and Middle Ages from North Europe. So no connection with corruption or lazyness at all.
 
The regions were E1b1b is centered were far more advanced in antiquity and Middle Ages from North Europe. So no connection with corruption or lazyness at all.

Exactly! I once gave an explanation to the shift of different stages of developement in this post:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showth...anean-genetics&p=368588&viewfull=1#post368588

I referred to the alleged character of races, but it can also be transfered to the distribution of haplogroups.
How would someone explain the high GDP of regions around the Alps? There are two possibilities:
The first one is that after WWII, and especially from the 1960's on, the producing industrial sector [which was high in BeNeLux, Northern France, England, North West Germany] lost importance to the service company sector. Former agricultural regions, with stabile non-communist governments [like around the Alps] took this advantage and created a new infrastructure for that sector. These fruits are reaped now, while other places of Europe still face the problem of an over-aged infrastructure and also partly social structures.
The second explanation is haplogroups. :rolleyes:
 
Haplogroups don't equal ethnicity especially when you are talking about Neolithic farmers (E1b1b, T, J1) or Paleolithic Balkanese (I2a). Even the Indo-Europeans were not pure according to your own claim (R1b1b2, R1a1a and G2a3b1) All this haplogroups mixxed in Greece to create the Greeks (one ethnos) some time during pre-history, there never was Hindu-style segregation here (at least untill we have proof about it)... The ancient Greek nobles claimed descend from a multitude of tribes-regions most of them in Anatolia-Crete (Atridae, Minoans), Levant (Thebes) or Greece it self (Pelasgians, Hellenes, Aeolians, Dorians) so the nobles of Macedonia could be R1a1, I or E-V13 while the nobles of Crete could be J2a or R1b1b2 and the nobles of Peloponnese could be E-V13 or J2a. That's all I'm saying Maciamo...

Why do you equal purity with ethnicity ? People in a society intermingle with each others, and after some time the gene pool is sufficiently blended for a new ethnicity to emerge. The smaller the starting population the faster the blend takes place. Considering the low population density in the Neolithic, mergers of multiple ethnicities (like the original J1, E1b1b and T) into a single new ethnic group happened relatively quickly. The problem with Greece is that it is so divided geographically that populations have not been able to blend as well as, say the Netherlands, over the same period of time. I have travelled to many parts of Greece and observed that people look considerably different depending on the region. I was startled by the physical appearance of some Cretans, that looked almost Arabic with their long narrow faces, long aquiline noses, tanned skin and curly black hair (the archetype of haplogroup J). In other regions people had very round faces and short noses, more like North Africans (the heritage of haplogroup E1b1b, I suppose). Others still had fair hair and eyes and could have passed for French, Belgian or German. A country like France probably has an even greater diversity of physical appearances between regions. That is because the gene pool hasn't had time to uniformise the looks into a single ethnicity.
 
The regions were E1b1b is centered were far more advanced in antiquity and Middle Ages from North Europe. So no connection with corruption or lazyness at all.

Except that the Greco-Roman Antiquity was a slave-based society where most of the wealth was produced by slaves. You just cannot compare it to modern society. Furthermore, the haplogroup frequencies 2000 years ago and now might well have been quite different with all the migrations that took place, all the wars, and so on.
 
It is clear that the History exiles any attempt of mystify one o more haplogroups to the detriment of others. In the antiquity the effort in already generating wealth and prosperity out in the field or in the cities it should have been superhuman, socially the slavery existed, but the beginning of prosperity of the European countries also they were epochs of semi-slavery and equally they were hard as it has always been for the most disadvantaged classes as it can turn in the picture of The Potato Eaters: what was the haplogroup of The Potato Eaters?, it has been difficult to come very much so far, and and this way our future is still in hands of few ones, it is always the same history, be countries where it prevails E or where it does it R.
 
Beautiful maps MG, great job.
Thanks for the kind words, LeBrok. A much more clear version (where the color scale gradations are truly visible) is available by download here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59594795/GDP-Per-Capita-by-Region-2006-Eurozone

What kills the logic of this map is the fact that natural gas and oil is drilled in that area.
This map has no logic, other than that which the viewer assigns to it. It simply presents GDP per capita figures visually; nothing less, nothing more.

The wise viewer will seek out just the kind of thing you mention--no one factor can explain something so complex as wealth creation. What is at play in this region or that? Good or poor soil, long or short growing season? How much arable land? What is under the ground--oil, minerals, precious metals? Are there navigable rivers, are we on a sea coast, are we land-locked? All these matter mightily.

But so do we. What kind of politicians do we elect? What kind of tax law, labor law, do we decide upon? Do we choose to pay our taxes? What do our businessmen decide to invest in? And do they invest at home or abroad? And why? These things reflect on us and our character traits, and yes, this element can in part be traced to our genes.

It's an interesting puzzle to tease out, and endlessly complex.
 
Thanks for the kind words, LeBrok. A much more clear version (where the color scale gradations are truly visible) is available by download here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59594795/GDP-Per-Capita-by-Region-2006-Eurozone

This map has no logic, other than that which the viewer assigns to it. It simply presents GDP per capita figures visually; nothing less, nothing more.

The wise viewer will seek out just the kind of thing you mention--no one factor can explain something so complex as wealth creation. What is at play in this region or that? Good or poor soil, long or short growing season? How much arable land? What is under the ground--oil, minerals, precious metals? Are there navigable rivers, are we on a sea coast, are we land-locked? All these matter mightily.

But so do we. What kind of politicians do we elect? What kind of tax law, labor law, do we decide upon? Do we choose to pay our taxes? What do our businessmen decide to invest in? And do they invest at home or abroad? And why? These things reflect on us and our character traits, and yes, this element can in part be traced to our genes.

It's an interesting puzzle to tease out, and endlessly complex.

So that means that north France have other Genes cause they Revolt and today have no King,
same in USA, probably patriots had another genes and did not pay tax for tea,

I wonder if genes are connecting also with masturbation of mind???

and since some do not understand Hugo and the Janver who was searching criminality in the structures of the bones of the head,
seems like I might start to believe him, 99% of Nuclear weapons belongs to what genes?

seems like Janver was right, the genes that are connected with our head shape,
100 years wars 70 years wars eternal wars
kill man to steal his wife etc etc,

PS are we in mood for what? for genes superiority?
 

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