BTW if R1b originated in the Caucasus and Anatolia and didn't mix with the Danubian populations, western european should have had more western Asian component in their genetic admixture.
not if Asia minor (at least north part of it perhaps together with Caucasus) was R1b dominant area...
and other haplogroups settled it later...
That is my point. R1b stayed thousands of year in Anatolia among a majority of J2 populations. So if R1b really originated there, we should see J2 following R1b migration to Western Europe which is not the case. So R1b homeland must be the steppe and only the steppe.
J2 maybe entered area later... in fact, maybe R1a entered Asia minor as Hittite, and J2 perhaps with E-V13 entered through south most end of Asia minor...
European R1b has such variance that allows even estimating timing of spread to certain areas...... large variance in Asia minor indicates that it was for long time settlement area of R1b.....
perhaps pre-Hittite Hatti were R1b, but I think Hatti were related to Germanic people so perhaps haplogroup I...
Maciamo pretty much nailed it, and there's also something important to remember about I2a in the Balkans: I2a-Din-L147 has a TMRCA of no more than 3000 years or so, which clearly demonstrates an expansion AFTER European R1b, probably southward. That means that we wouldn't expect mixing with R1b if we assume that R1b took a route through the Balkans... rather, we would expect (and see) mixing with the R1a that took the more northerly route, followed by a more recent expansion southward.
The I2 that we've observed in ancient Neolithic samples are NOT of the type found in the Balkans, they have been I2a-M26, like we see in Sardinia... that, we see mixed with R1b more thoroughly. The kind we see in the Balkans probably comes from a smaller Neolithic population.
I think that in Balkans Slavs brought mainly I2a-din, while R1a was mostly native - ancient Macedonians...
Serbs came from white Serbia that can only be mapped to Bohemia that is local source of I2a2, and Croats from white Croatia whose core was Galicia which is another local source of I2a2... in fact, it is indicated that white Serbia and white Croatia were neighbouring areas which maps to stretch of I2a-din along Carpathians (also called Mont Serrorum, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Mountains) from Black sea to Bohemia.... in fact Carpati = tribal name Hrvati, montes Serrorum = mountains of Serians... proto-Serbs I think were those Serians who were moving along Danube from Bohemia towards south perhaps as Scordisci/Serdi and Tribali....
Dacians were in between - they had proto-Serbs on south/sothwest and proto-Croats on north...
lol, if Lithuanians were Dacians as suggested by Dagne...that proximity may explain why Serbs, Croats and Lithuanians excel in basketball... perhaps there was similar game popular in area... however, Balts have significant haplogroup N while Croats have almost no N and Serbs have around 7% which is low but much more than environment...which contradicts assumption I made unless Balts only got N when they moved to north...
R1a we find equally in FYRM Slavs and albanians, while I2a2 we find as dominant in FYRM Slavs and almost not existing in FYRM Albanians. FYRM Albanians have same R1a as Serbs from Serbia and Macedonian Slavs from FYRM and much more R1a than Slavic Montenegro. all south Slavs are distinguished from environment by dominant i2a-din.....
In Greek Macedonians R1a tend to be very frequent...
I think I2a-din is related to Cimmerians...
if you look at spread of Ciimmerians imagine it as I2a-din, than take Serbs and Croats from cores of those spreads and bring them from white-Serbia and white-Croatia to their current locations you get I2a-din looking like this
on Balkan Cimmerians didnot spread in Illyria, and south Thrace, but we find them in Danube basin, north of Black sea and north of Carpatians..hence almost no I2a-din in Albanians from north Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia....
curiously, there is I2a-din in south Albanians.... it could have been Slavic population or older I2a-din mix that travelled with J2
in Roman era we should try to map I2a-din to Tribali, Scordisci, perhaps also Panonians and Veneti... although last two could have been R1a...
R1a would be Scythians, ancient Macedonians, and Thracians
Sarmatians would be haplogroup G and R1a
and Dacians are puzzle ...
both Dacians and Getae seems to me as originally germanic tribal names... so they could have been R1b or I2b people... in fact, from some I2b maps I have seen, Getae might have been I2b
Dacians could have been R1b or R1a... not sure...
Thracians and Dacians were Satem speakers, how could they have been R1b rather than R1a?
good point
good question
Maybe its because the I2a2 was brought in the balkans by the goths , who stayed there for over 200 years.
in that case I2a-din can be related only to Ostrogoths , as there is no I2a-din in lands that Visigoths ruled over... such as Spain, south France, Italy...
I find it strange that Ostrogoths and Visigoths didnot have same lineages, but is possible...
also, from what I explained above south Slavs were I2a2 dominant people when they entered Balkan...
I relate them to white Serians
but indeed Goths could have been I2a2-din, and white Serians /white Syrians could have been those Goths or Guti who ruled over Sumer (according to Strabo sumerians = Syrians)...there is an issue of language here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutian_dynasty_of_Sumer
there is disputed medieval chronicle that states south Slavs are Goths...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_of_the_Priest_of_Duklja