The pelasgians

iapetoc

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well I open this thread just someone to realize who pelasgians were and what was their language,


the Pelasgian is a language that exist even to moden Greek and some other language and is not IE,

for example word
Iasis = healing
Okea = water
Erebos = dark
galene = peace
Aloef Aloif = ointmenτ
gois goessa = desirable , beutifull guzel
naio = i flow
Aga = ruller persian acha akkadian akka
greek anthropos human from hath +roof (rup?) = human
(ra-cena = ? καινο cana(an))
laimos = neck , compare with Pontic and mountain Greek goula = neck IE
Ellios = sun
tele = away
kottana = virgin
rogchos = a breth sound, πιθανατιοσ ρογχος = last breath
Peirithai = girls for mariage
Di-faton = divine snake
Uranus = sky
kaino = new yeni


toponyms
mt Hymettus
E -Mat-tia Ematheia
Set-eia

in Latin and etruscan we also found many
these words also exist in Semitic languages
both languages meet at Akkadian
Akkadian is not a semitic but a proto or a pre semitic,
from Akkadian split the Hattian and the south Semitic.

I can give you sources and books if you want to find for your self,

Pelasgian is the pre thyrrenian,
early minoan - phillistine, thettalian, athenean etc

search for homer who are they,

1) Iliad cataloque of ships
2) The Odyssey, 17.175-177
3) Iliad, 7.467; 14. 230
4) Iliad, 2.681-684; 16.233-235
5) Iliad, 2.750

Herodotus
at Placie and Scylace on the Asiatic shore of the Hellespont;
near Creston on the Strymon; in this area they have "Tyrrhenian" neighbors (Persian Wars 1.57).

thoukidides
Thucydides (2.17)
Thucydides (4.106)


The historian Ephorus preserves a passage from Hesiod that attests to a tradition of an aboriginal Pelasgian people in Arcadia, and developed a theory of the Pelasgians as a warrior-people spreading from a "Pelasgian home", and annexing and colonizing all the parts of Greece where earlier writers had found allusions to them, from Dodona to Crete and the Troad, and even as far as Italy, where again their settlements had been recognized as early as the time of Hellanicus, in close connection once more with "Tyrrhenians."

instead of Arcadia put the Theba we have the myth of Pelasgians


The connection with Tyrrhenians which began with Hellanicus, Herodotus and Sophocles becomes confusion with them in the 3rd century, when the Lemnian pirates and their Attic kinsmen become plainly styled as Tyrrhenians, and early fortress-walls in Italy (like those on the Palatine Hill in Rome) appear as "Arcadian" colonies. The character of the ancient citadel wall at Athens has given the name "Pelasgic masonry" to all constructions of large, unhewn blocks fitted together with mortar, from Asia Minor to Spain, the massive character that has also been called "cyclopean"

Arcado-Cypriot vs Akkado-phoenician ?
Cadmus brother of Phoinix,?

Hattians that time were in Both Cyprus and Levant

the tittle akka = king in akkadian we find later in Persian and Greek also
as acha and aga and in Sophocles as Anakka anax
after we find the word ηγε-μων aga becomes ege

so since someone are in hurry to put Akkadian and Hattian in semitic
let me remind them that from Akkadian sprung both Hattian-minor asian, and south Semitic
this theory is developed by many,

comparing words we find that a western form is more dental
like γαληνη (whalene) and salem s->γ wh

taranis you know why and you can explain it

another issue is the u->o
Uranus ->uranos

other areas we found Pelasgian is Smyrna Area Iona

that language is connected with Eteo-cretan or Hath-cretan attica or Hathi-con
chaonia or Hath-on-ia

comparing the areas is Miletus and probably its colonies
East Crete (seteia is most not invaded area)
Athens (but it is many times invaded and 1 genocided)
Epirus and especially north
area around troy and propontis channel
east and beside Chalkidike river strymon
Thessaly north and around mount olymp
Arcadia peloponese and north shores


other connections

Turkish scholar, Polat Kaya, has recently offered a translation of one of the inscriptions on Lemnos, based on his theory that it reflects a language related to Turkish. However, in the period of the putative date of the inscription the Turkish people lived several thousand miles away in southeastern Siberia. They began to migrate westward only about 300 AD, a fact that has hindered acceptance of Kaya's translation. This theory is almost unanimously ignored by scholars.

Georgian scholars M.G. Tseretheli, R.V. Gordeziani, M. Abdushelishvili, Zviad Gamsakhurdiaconnect the Pelasgian with the Iberian-Caucasian cultures of the prehistoric Caucasus, known to the Greeks as Colchis. This may sound plausible since there were many autochthonic Caucasian peoples dwelling in Anatolia such as the Hattians before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans.

French Zacharie Mayani put forth a thesis that the Etruscan language had links to the Albanian language. This thesis places the Albanian language outside the group of Indo-European languages sharing one branch with Etruscans as well as ancient Greek. Nermin Vlora Falaschi published a translation of the Lemnos stele on this basis, with the help of Arvanite Albanian. The references below by Falaschi, Catapano, Marchiano, Mathieu Aref, Faverial, D'Angely, and Cabej support this point of view.

Romanian scholar Nicolae Densusianu considered the Pelasgian to be a proto-Latin speaking people. He offered a translation for the inscriptions on Lemnos in his study, Dacia Preistorica.

in fact we speak about a language that stand with foot in Etruscan-Latin language and one in Semitic language.

A Hebrew PHD of Tel-Aviv Jehunda gives clear connection of Greek-Pelasgic with Hebrew-Aramaic and puts them both in Syrria and Cilicia, I heard about 1800 words that used by Hesychius

A greek Thomopoulos has recorded Greek and Albanian Pelasgic although inputs some celtic

the linguistic simmilarity is proved by many
on the other hand
we have Bulgarian Georgyev who places them in IE Thracian

an interesting thesis is
Robert Graves who connects them with N Ireland Welsh and west islands in Scotland, comparing their religion

Alternate of Pelasgian I haven't found

but I have found that name Leleges which is use example from Homer fir Miletus in Herodotus is named as Pelasgian
same with name Courites in another author we find them Pelasgians


if a gennetist is sure can give a gennetic connection
comparing the Thyrrenians -Etruscans,
and the Philistines especially Gaza area, the ones in iezekhiel are named Cretans.
 
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I see now where you're aiming at. You mean "Pelasgian" as a (non-IE, presumably?) substrate in Greek? Well, let me say this, one crucial question here: are these words in modern Greek? Are they attested in Classical Greek or in Mycnenean Greek (if they are an ancient substrate, they without a doubt are attested)? Because, if yes, they would be obviously subject to sound changes.

The most over sound change from classical to modern Greek is the treatment of φ, θ and χ. In classical Greek, these were aspirated p, t and k, respectively (hence transliteration as ph, th and kh). However, in modern Greek, they changed to f, th (like English "thunder") and ch (as in Scottish "loch"). My point here is: any borrowings from a substrate language would be subject to such sound changes, too, and would give us a different image of this language.
 
I see now where you're aiming at. You mean "Pelasgian" as a (non-IE, presumably?) substrate in Greek? Well, let me say this, one crucial question here: are these words in modern Greek? Are they attested in Classical Greek or in Mycnenean Greek (if they are an ancient substrate, they without a doubt are attested)? Because, if yes, they would be obviously subject to sound changes.

The most over sound change from classical to modern Greek is the treatment of φ, θ and χ. In classical Greek, these were aspirated p, t and k, respectively (hence transliteration as ph, th and kh). However, in modern Greek, they changed to f, th (like English "thunder") and ch (as in Scottish "loch"). My point here is: any borrowings from a substrate language would be subject to such sound changes, too, and would give us a different image of this language.

most of them exist in homer

that is why i reject thomopoulos cause he inputs many celtic non existing either semitic either latin either turkish

all words are ancient not modern

and I am searching for Jehunda book but is very rare and very expensive
 
most of them exist in homer

Well, are they (or at least some of them?) attested in Mycenean (Linear B)?

that is why i reject thomopoulos cause he inputs many celtic

and I am for Jehunda book but is very rare and very expensive

Homer is generally thought to have lived in the 9th century BC, no? That's six centuries before the Celtic invasion of Greece, and it's also three centuries before the foundation of Massilia - which would have been approximately the first time the Greeks encountered the Celts. Besides, the words sound totally un-Celtic. In a nutshell, Celtic origin makes no sense.
 
I don't know which words are attested in mycenean B
and where to find them

I am speaking of words that exist at 2 of a group that contains Latin Albanian Greek, non exist in Germanic slavic Celtic languages
and also exist in 1 or 2 Turkish Syrria Levant Hebrew or pallaistinian

these words also exist in Hesiod etc

I am talking about dinaric celts the ones macciamo names Dorians

the ones who try enter from illyria at about 2000 BC

parts of celtic exist in Ilyria and Albanian language
thomopoulos put them in Pelasgian with out connected with with Turkish or semitic that is why I disagree with him in many words
like greek homer onar = dream Makedonian oneiron cretan anairon with albanian annere-andere = I heard about that but what about word ear (q-celtic), annere could be from ear and not from onar,
so I don't trust him,
also the world for sky alb kjielte which exist in greek as color κιελι -σιελ which is clear a non pelasgic word

I have my own list and i surely do not intend to publish it,
all are checked words

for example the word aqua
is in latin aqua
in greek ωκεα
in albanian uyie
in turkish is su q,k ->s like gallene -> salem γ-> s
and in south egypt as assu aswu


on the other hand words like baazar greek παζαρι we can not put in compare because do not exist in ancient language although exist in modern, so such kinds of word are excluded.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falisci

well it seems like that is either a coincedene either an evidence
compare the names Falisci Fillisti and Pelasgi
they exist all in the areas that we were looking
Falisci next to Etruscans
Pelasgi in minor asia next to Greeks,
Phillisti in Levant next to Phoenicians

what may that means?
that if it is not a coinsidence then we might have
Semitic being a minor Asian Caucasian Language that moved to south and return
that Latin Greek Phoenician Hebrew Palaistinian etc share a vocabulary that is not IE but pre-semitic (Yehunda's book)
the Hattian one, from which later semitic languages sprung as they go south and then return with Arabs,
Even that Alphabet is not Phoenician But minor Asian.
 
well I open this thread just someone to realize who pelasgians were and what was their language,


the Pelasgian is a language that exist even to moden Greek and some other language and is not IE,

Pelasgian is an exonym referred to different peoples.
 
@ Yetos: In my opinion, the Greek words "pelagos" (sea) and "pelargos" (stork) are compound ones, like "pe lagos" and "pe largos" which by the Albanian point of view mean respectively "liquid" adj. (or "of liquid"), and "from away" (the stork is a migratory bird).
If it's the case, then "pelasgos" may be like "pe lasgos". Any idea?
 
@ Yetos: In my opinion, the Greek words "pelagos" (sea) and "pelargos" (stork) are compound ones, like "pe lagos" and "pe largos" which by the Albanian point of view mean respectively "liquid" adj. (or "of liquid"), and "from away" (the stork is a migratory bird).
If it's the case, then "pelasgos" may be like "pe lasgos". Any idea?

Hal Fao, stop posting this nonsense about "magically dismantling" words in languages via modern Albanian while completely ignoring any kind of common sense in terms of linguistic methodology. I've elaborated this on multiple occasions. Now you're running out of time.
 
Hello ! I'm new to this very interesting forum, and very interested in linguistics. The Circassians of the north Caucasus believe that they are descended from the ancient Hatti of Anatolia . They are a fascinating people who speak one of the strangest languages on earth , which is very poor in vowel phonemes but incredicbly rich in consonants .
If you type in the word "Circassians" at youtube , you can see a fascinating video in Circassian which shows the ancient connections between them and the Hatti , and you can basically get the drift of what is being said with the maps of the ancient middle east and photos of ancient tools and statues etc .
Circassian sounds like no other language you have ever heard ; you could almost it imagine it being Klingon rather than a human form of speech ! Just click on "The Hatti," .
 
iapetoc

You mean "ëndërr" for "dream" right? Or "andërr" in Gheg.

I suppose "kjielte" is a reconstruction, as the actual Albanian word for sky is "qiell" from Latin "caelum" . However it reminds me of the adj. "kthjelltë", meaning "clear, pure, serene etc." As for the color, there's "kaltër" meaning "azure" although it's often translated as "blue", which I don't see how they're related.

I'm not doubting you checked the words, but it's "ujë" not "uyie".


On topic, was the word "gaia" mentioned?
 
iapetoc

You mean "ëndërr" for "dream" right? Or "andërr" in Gheg.

I suppose "kjielte" is a reconstruction, as the actual Albanian word for sky is "qiell" from Latin "caelum" . However it reminds me of the adj. "kthjelltë", meaning "clear, pure, serene etc." As for the color, there's "kaltër" meaning "azure" although it's often translated as "blue", which I don't see how they're related.

I'm not doubting you checked the words, but it's "ujë" not "uyie".


On topic, was the word "gaia" mentioned?

you are right,
thank you for corecting.
 
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No I dont speak about IE,

Ορχομενος is not Αρχομενος= Start - ruler-supreme
Orhomenos = Orc dwellings the later Turkish Uruk-Yuruk dwelling

the link is giving 2 IE dialects,

I say about a language that was spoken near Akkadian relative to Elamitic and south Caucasian and words that can exist in modern Turkey, Latin-ETruscan, Greek, Albanian.
 
Yetos,

could you please give the title of the book and the full name of Yehunda, I would like to search for it.
Thanks
 
Yetos,

could you please give the title of the book and the full name of Yehunda, I would like to search for it.
Thanks

Yes author is Josep(h) Yahunda,
there are 3 books

the most easy to find is 'Hebrew is Greek' cause it was quite big edition,
well leave outside some nationalistic coments and search the vocabulary given.
the other is very limited and rare. a lexicon of Elamitic and IE common common vocabulary.
and a third named Obidos (Abydos) which is only for colectors when I try to find it.
the last 2 I only heard about their existance, never found or see them.
 
Yes author is Josep(h) Yahunda,
there are 3 books

the most easy to find is 'Hebrew is Greek' cause it was quite big edition,
well leave outside some nationalistic coments and search the vocabulary given.
the other is very limited and rare. a lexicon of Elamitic and IE
and a third named Obidos (Abydos) which is only for colectors when I try to find it.
the last 2 I only heard about their existance, never found or see them.

Thanks a lot
 
@ Yetos: In my opinion, the Greek words "pelagos" (sea) and "pelargos" (stork) are compound ones, like "pe lagos" and "pe largos" which by the Albanian point of view mean respectively "liquid" adj. (or "of liquid"), and "from away" (the stork is a migratory bird). If it's the case, then "pelasgos" may be like "pe lasgos". Any idea?

Hal Fao, stop posting this nonsense about "magically dismantling" words in languages via modern Albanian while completely ignoring any kind of common sense in terms of linguistic methodology. I've elaborated this on multiple occasions. Now you're running out of time.

As a matter of fact, the word "pelag-os"~~the sea
is grafically very similar to the Albanian one : 'pellg'

English (3 entries.)------- Shqip (3 hyrje.)
pool (n)---------------pellg {m} (tsh pellgu) (sh pellgje)
puddle-----------------pellg {m} (tsh pellgu) (sh pellgje)
backwater-------------pellg {m} (tsh pellgu) (sh pellgje)

It is also very reasonable to consider the sea a 'big puddle' or a 'big pool', and this is reflected in the root of the word itself in several languages:

pelag(os)["Greek"]---------pool[Eng]--------pellg[Alb]

What I can prove with a high level of accuracy, is that the cluster lg in Albanian pellg, is the result of the primitive verb contraction, of the c-v-c system LAG

29mugjs.jpg


It is obvious that this verb, is the root for many many "big-paddle" names in many languages, for example:

lag-----------> lago(ital)~~lacus(lat)~~~lake(eng)

As many time proven, Albanian language preserves better than any other European one, the primitive verbs of a primordial language, which are the base of a wider paneuropean lexicon.
 
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As a matter of fact, the word "pelag-os"~~the sea
is grafically very similar to the Albanian one : 'pellg'

English (3 entries.)------- Shqip (3 hyrje.)
pool (n)---------------pellg {m} (tsh pellgu) (sh pellgje)
puddle-----------------pellg {m} (tsh pellgu) (sh pellgje)
backwater-------------pellg {m} (tsh pellgu) (sh pellgje)

It is also very reasonable to consider the sea a 'big puddle' or a 'big pool', and this is reflected in the root of the word itself in several languages:

pelag(os)["Greek"]---------pool[Eng]--------pellg[Alb]

What I can prove with a high level of accuracy, is that the cluster lg in Albanian pellg, is the result of the primitive verb contraction, of the c-v-c system LAG

29mugjs.jpg


It is obvious that this verb, is the root for many many "big-paddle" names in many languages, for example:

lag-----------> lago(ital)~~lacus(lat)~~~lake(eng)

As many time proven, Albanian language preserves better than any other European one, the primitive verbs of a primordial language, which are the base of a wider paneuropean lexicon.

the correct word is pelash ->Pelasg and means flat
and is also combined with
English flat
german Flache
Latin planus
Rus ploskiye
Swe platta
and since is IE then should exist in Albanian, and not because exist in Albanian should exist in IE.

the word you are giving laga-lagur is the word for swamp or lake in IE
Laggoon
Greek Elos Telma Limne-limen (Ελος-swamp Tελ(α)μα(modern λαμωσα) Λιμην Λιμνη ιλυς= mud-clay Λάγος) (Βαρη Βουρκος Βαρικος Μπαρα is the heavy soil or slipery small pudles)
and is connecting with Eels (Homeric Ελλυες-Ελλερον) etc


compare
English Float
Greek πλεω πλοιον (πε+λε+ω -ε = πλεω)
Slavic plavat
Francais floatter


the word Pelagos is IE and not Pelasgian
Pelasgians is an exonyme that Greek gave to sea people before they name them Thyrrenians, and all naval people that came from sea.

Indo-European is not an Albanian language, But Albanian is a sub-IE language,

as for this
As many time proven, Albanian language preserves better than any other European one, the primitive verbs of a primordial language, which are the base of a wider paneuropean lexicon.

why only you see it?
are telling us that Albanian preserves better an IE word as expressed by Greek language aspirations?
wow.

maybe I get a punish, but

Do you have any complex?
at one post you say us that Greek is not a language but a church discovery,
at another you say that Anatoli is right and History is written at 1600 AD , and you deny Nestor's cup as non ancient and at the other you show us a Greek script in Roman Senator (Συγκλητος) as ancient,
now you are saying us what? that IE language is the child of Albanian language?
or that Albanian is conservative and can preserve better IE words with Greek aspirations?

What is your problem? what is torturing you?

tell me after all your posts what shall i Believe?
that Greeks spoke an Asian (IE is asian language) language and learn Greek which is a church language, by who's priests? but this language is better preserved in Albanian?

Probably Church wanted Greeks to learn the primordial language, Albanian, but Greeks were bad students...
I wonder did church also teach this primordial language,Albanian to India? but they were also bad and make it Sanshqrit?

And I repeat my Shelf in case of misunderstood,
Pelagos is the Greek aspirations of a IE word for flat, plain, and since is IE exist in Albania in the according aspirations,
the existance of the simmilar sounds in both languages must check the aspirations,
but it has >95% chance to exist in both languages since both are IE,
the difference is what aspirations the language follows, from that we can guess a loan,
with all the respect, Albanian is a IE language, and a special one, so simmilar words must exist.
 
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