The Real Debt Crisis

[edao]

This week European leaders came together to ensure the stability of the European economy.
In the last months the news has been full of talk about European weak links and how wrong the single currency is. How Spain is weak and Italy is weak and how much debt French and Germany banks hold for Greece.

And yet in truth the real debt crisis exists somewhere outside Europe. In the same country that gave us swindling super banks and credit rating agencies which are not so good at rating toxic debt but much better at undermining European states capability to raise funds.
God Bless America!

"Republican House Speaker John Boehner has walked away from crunch debt ceiling talks at the White House with US President Barack Obama...

"Dealing with the White House is like dealing with a bowl of Jell-O," Mr Boehner said.

White House correspondents said Mr Obama looked visibly angry as he told reporters he, too, thought a deal had been close until Mr Boehner did not return a phone call made by the president earlier on Friday.

For the first time, Mr Obama publicly countenanced the possibility of the US not meeting its financial obligations.

"If we default, then we're going to have to make adjustments," he said (obama)."

read article

A US president talking about defaulting , A bowl of Jell-o, not returning the president calls are these politicians or children?



Where are the rating agencies, why aren't they downgrading the US!


screenshot20110723at110.png

[iapetoc]

This week European leaders came together to ensure the stability of the European economy.
In the last months the news has been full of talk about European weak links and how wrong the single currency is. How Spain is weak and Italy is weak and how much debt French and Germany banks hold for Greece.

And yet in truth the real debt crisis exists somewhere outside Europe. In the same country that gave us swindling super banks and credit rating agencies which are not so good at rating toxic debt but much better at undermining European states capability to raise funds.
God Bless America!

"Republican House Speaker John Boehner has walked away from crunch debt ceiling talks at the White House with US President Barack Obama...

"Dealing with the White House is like dealing with a bowl of Jell-O," Mr Boehner said.

White House correspondents said Mr Obama looked visibly angry as he told reporters he, too, thought a deal had been close until Mr Boehner did not return a phone call made by the president earlier on Friday.

For the first time, Mr Obama publicly countenanced the possibility of the US not meeting its financial obligations.

"If we default, then we're going to have to make adjustments," he said (obama)."

read article

A US president talking about defaulting , A bowl of Jell-o, not returning the president calls are these politicians or children?



Where are the rating agencies, why aren't they downgrading the US!


screenshot20110723at110.png

if a country has big dept I learn in today's world we send IMF

some pals have x34 the depth of greece and x40 the population of greece, about 0.85 or 85%
I wonder if they manage to 100% who will send them IMF?

[Reinaert]

Yeah, the USA is bankrupt, and we Europeans have to bleed for it!
It's all an international banking conspiracy!

Europeans, take your destination in your own hands!
Refuse to trade in stocks, don't sell gold, boycott the Anglo-American-* Empire!

[iapetoc]

Yeah, the USA is bankrupt, and we Europeans have to bleed for it!
It's all an international banking conspiracy!

Europeans, take your destination in your own hands!
Refuse to trade in stocks, don't sell gold, boycott the Anglo-American-* Empire!

hmmm

they bind $ and E at 1,42-1,44 but both drop to other,
CHF reach 1,05 E and BRL to top,

i really wonder if Greece is trash with >CCC by some economical houses,
then someone who has 80% of the greek debt per capita why is still AAA???? and not just an A or B


well i do not know the climate at north EUrope,
but seems like DSK and the today scandal of Langarde with Bernand Tapi (olympique Marselle (Massaleia) president) that is published before 2 days has some connection.

[Reinaert]

Well, it makes no sense at all.

Italy has a bigger debt than Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal together, but gets away with it.
The USA has an all time debt, caused by the republican mess policy of Bush, but now the republicans are now pointing their finger at Obama. They are completely nuts!
The USA can't get off their debts for a long time. In a normal situation, it may take a hundred years.

But.. Maybe there is a global conspiracy to get the stock markets crashing, for a number of reasons.
An important reason might be, the Americans are creating a huge devaluation of the dollar to get rid of their debts.

[sparkey]

The USA has an all time debt, caused by the republican mess policy of Bush, but now the republicans are now pointing their finger at Obama. They are completely nuts!
The USA can't get off their debts for a long time. In a normal situation, it may take a hundred years.

But.. Maybe there is a global conspiracy to get the stock markets crashing, for a number of reasons.
An important reason might be, the Americans are creating a huge devaluation of the dollar to get rid of their debts.

Not to defend Bush, but deficits have increased dramatically under Obama. Most of the current debt accumulated under previous presidents, but Obama has run the largest deficits by far of recent presidents. So it's not completely nuts to blame Obama for much of this.

Right now the US has several options to get rid of its debts, but nobody seems genuinely interested. The best option would be deep military cuts and austerity, combined perhaps with targeted short-term tax hikes. Unfortunately, Republicans only want austerity and Democrats only want tax hikes (taken alone the worst option IMHO). So we may be looking at some quite damaging options, like inflation and default. Making the Federal Reserve destroy its bonds may be another solution, but I haven't heard it as being on the table, and I don't think the Fed is interested.

[iapetoc]

the bellow numbers are according Greek state bank daily estimation, and a private bamk linked with European central bank,

Gold prices
today 40 000 E
before 2 years 21 000 E 2/01/2009
source
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/el/...d=ID&FltVal=22

these are prices today of exchange comparing with Euro,
USD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ Η.Π.Α1,4367 JPY - ΓΙΕΝ ΙΑΠΩΝΙΑΣ109,8400 BGN - ΛΕΒΑ ΒΟΥΛΓΑΡΙΑΣ1,9558 CZK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΤΣΕΧΙΑΣ24,0880 DKK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΔΑΝΙΑΣ7,4508 GBP - ΛΙΡΑ ΑΓΓΛΙΑΣ0,8843 HUF - ΦΟΡΙΝΤ ΟΥΓΓΑΡΙΑΣ273,1800 LTL - ΛΙΤΑ ΛΙΘΟΥΑΝΙΑΣ3,4528 LVL - ΛΑΤ ΛΕΤΟΝΙΑΣ0,7092 PLN - ΖΛΟΤΙ ΠΟΛΩΝΙΑΣ4,1006 RON - ΝΕΟ ΛΕΙ ΡΟΥΜΑΝΙΑΣ4,2643 SEK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΣΟΥΗΔΙΑΣ9,2323 CHF - ΦΡΑΓΚΟ ΕΛΒΕΤΙΑΣ1,0451 ISK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΙΣΛΑΝΔΙΑΣ0,0000 NOK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΝΟΡΒΗΓΙΑΣ7,8105 HRK - ΚΟΥΝΑ ΚΡΟΑΤΙΑΣ7,4430 RUB - ΡΟΥΒΛΙ ΡΩΣΙΑΣ42,1060 TRY - ΛΙΡΑ ΤΟΥΡΚΙΑΣ2,5171 AUD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΑΥΣΤΡΑΛΙΑΣ1,3891 BRL - ΡΕΑΛ ΒΡΑΖΙΛΙΑΣ2,3012 CAD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΚΑΝΑΔΑ1,4133 CNY - ΓΙΟΥΑΝ (ΡΕΝΜΙΝΜΠΙ) ΚΙΝΑΣ9,2150 HKD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΧΟΝΓΚ-ΚΟΝΓΚ11,2127 IDR - ΡΟΥΠΙΑ ΙΝΔΟΝΗΣΙΑΣ12258,6500 ILS - ΣΕΚΕΛ ΙΣΡΑΗΛ5,0526 INR - ΙΝΔΙΚΗ ΡΟΥΠΙΑ65,0250 KRW - ΓΟΥΟΝ ΝΟΤΙΟΥ ΚΟΡΕΑΣ1552,1800 MXN - ΠΕΣΟ ΜΕΞΙΚΟΥ17,4084 MYR - ΡΙΝΓΚΙΤ ΜΑΛΑΙΣΙΑΣ4,3202 NZD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΝΕΑΣ ΖΗΛΑΝΔΙΑΣ1,7183 PHP - ΠΕΣΟ ΦΙΛΙΠΠΙΝΩΝ61,0700 SGD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΣΙΓΚΑΠΟΥΡΗΣ1,7452 THB - ΜΠΑΧΤ ΤΑΪΛΑΝΔΗΣ42,9290 ZAR - ΡΑΝΤ ΝΟΤΙΟΥ ΑΦΡΙΚΗΣ10,2264

ANd thse are before 2 years, 16/02/2009

USD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ Η.Π.Α1,2765 JPY - ΓΙΕΝ ΙΑΠΩΝΙΑΣ117,3300 BGN - ΛΕΒΑ ΒΟΥΛΓΑΡΙΑΣ1,9558 CZK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΤΣΕΧΙΑΣ29,1500 DKK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΔΑΝΙΑΣ7,4525 EEK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΕΣΘΟΝΙΑΣ15,6466 GBP - ΛΙΡΑ ΑΓΓΛΙΑΣ0,8945 HUF - ΦΟΡΙΝΤ ΟΥΓΓΑΡΙΑΣ303,3500 LTL - ΛΙΤΑ ΛΙΘΟΥΑΝΙΑΣ3,4528 LVL - ΛΑΤ ΛΕΤΟΝΙΑΣ0,7084 PLN - ΖΛΟΤΙ ΠΟΛΩΝΙΑΣ4,7870 RON - ΝΕΟ ΛΕΙ ΡΟΥΜΑΝΙΑΣ4,3162 SEK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΣΟΥΗΔΙΑΣ10,9230 CHF - ΦΡΑΓΚΟ ΕΛΒΕΤΙΑΣ1,4883 ISK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΙΣΛΑΝΔΙΑΣ0,0000 NOK - ΚΟΡΩΝΑ ΝΟΡΒΗΓΙΑΣ8,7770 HRK - ΚΟΥΝΑ ΚΡΟΑΤΙΑΣ7,4047 RUB - ΡΟΥΒΛΙ ΡΩΣΙΑΣ44,9847 TRY - ΛΙΡΑ ΤΟΥΡΚΙΑΣ2,1248 AUD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΑΥΣΤΡΑΛΙΑΣ1,9622 BRL - ΡΕΑΛ ΒΡΑΖΙΛΙΑΣ2,8958 CAD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΚΑΝΑΔΑ1,5912 CNY - ΓΙΟΥΑΝ (ΡΕΝΜΙΝΜΠΙ) ΚΙΝΑΣ8,7236 HKD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΧΟΝΓΚ-ΚΟΝΓΚ9,8979 IDR - ΡΟΥΠΙΑ ΙΝΔΟΝΗΣΙΑΣ15266,9400INR - ΙΝΔΙΚΗ ΡΟΥΠΙΑ62,0630 KRW - ΓΟΥΟΝ ΝΟΤΙΟΥ ΚΟΡΕΑΣ1826,5800 MXN - ΠΕΣΟ ΜΕΞΙΚΟΥ18,6050 MYR - ΡΙΝΓΚΙΤ ΜΑΛΑΙΣΙΑΣ4,6177 NZD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΝΕΑΣ ΖΗΛΑΝΔΙΑΣ2,4638 PHP - ΠΕΣΟ ΦΙΛΙΠΠΙΝΩΝ60,5900 SGD - ΔΟΛΛΑΡΙΟ ΣΙΓΚΑΠΟΥΡΗΣ1,9369 THB - ΜΠΑΧΤ ΤΑΪΛΑΝΔΗΣ44,9140 ZAR - ΡΑΝΤ ΝΟΤΙΟΥ ΑΦΡΙΚΗΣ12,8193

the bold follow an independent move.
example,
RI3APICHART.png

that is the move of us $ and euro last 2 years

RI3APICHART2.png


and that is Euro and swiss frank last 2 years,

seems like market laws are divided to 2,
by watching the BRL (brazilian real) the last 6 years move we realizethat the case of argentina and imf is the one that stabilize Brl and puts it in strong currency
But the case of Canadian and Swiss currency is strange,
Cannadian over US $ and CHF equal Euro?

the game is strong, but seems that affected only Eu and USA,
Russia seems out of game,
while Australia New Zealand and South Africa seems to be more hard and strong currency than the bond US $ and Euro,
they both drop infront others, but they both bind last days at 1,42-4

seems like the ghost of Lehmans brothers is still on loose
stocks and papers destroy the economy of middle class

I am afraid of older situation,
the case Boom like 1928 times,
but this time at USA and Europe same time,

FOR first time in my life I have seen Gold > Platinum
gold 1780 /on
platinum 1770/on

[Cimmerianbloke]

Comparing with 1929 is useless, the situation is quite different, as most governments were not as endebted as they are now, and nor were people. The power of bankers has to be controlled, and when bankrupt, like in Ireland, they have to face their responsabilites and hit the dust. Another recession will see economies that were not considered at risk go down. A country like Germany, who lives off its exports is at risk when no one can afford to buy their products anymore. The euro proved to be an inadequate currency and has to be rethought in depth. Like it or not, a strong euro is not what Europe needs. The debt crisis was already an issue 15 years ago, but the European construction eclipsed it all. We all have been f@@ed for the greed of a handful and the incompetence of another.