New map of haplogroup Q

south most Spain, Sicily and Sardinia could indeed be due to Phoenicians as suggested by Maciamo, as there is a hotspot in Lebanon too...


800px-AntikeGriechen1.jpg


interestingly north Africa seems to lack Q which is according to this marker of Phoenicians...this could indicate that almost no Phoenicians survived there...

alternatively, Q could have been spread to south Spain, Sicily and Sardinia by Vandals and Alans... or perhaps by some mercenaries fighting for Byzantium...


the most curious part are Basques... perhaps they had trade partnership with Phoenicians...
 
how yes no said:
excellent observation Taranis

there is correlation in Scandinavia, on Iceland and in Kurdistan, which strongly suggests you are right
on other hand hotspots in Ukraine and Hungary are in my opinion also related to reminder of Huns..
Click to expand...
With all due respect, but there is almost no Q among Kurds in Kurdistan. You see a concentration of Q in Turkey in Central Anatolia, where the most real ethnic Turks live.
 
Taranis said:
I'm sorry, but it crossed my mind that the association of Haplogroup Q with the Huns is purely coincidential (especially, the Huns by no means explain these high peaks in Scandinavia). Specifically, what I noticed is that there appears to be a rather good match between Haplogroup R1a1a and Northern/Eastern European variety of Haplogroup Q, so here is my suggestion (playing the devil's advocate, if you will): what if Haplogroup Q is Chalcolithic in age, and entered Europe alongside with R1a1a?
Click to expand...

I also thought about Q entering Europe from Central Asia alongside R1a, but then Q should be found in more or less equal proportion to R1a everywhere, at least within the Slavic zone, which is not at al the case. Q peaks in Ukraine and around Slovakia but is relatively rare among Russians and Poles. Furthermore, Q is very common in Sweden and Norway, where the R1a is of a completely different variety from the Slavic R1a. Mind you, R1a doesn't even reach 20% in Sweden, a far cry from the 60% of the Russo-Ukrainian border.

The fact that there is no documented proof of the Huns settling is Scandinavia is irreleveant in my eyes, because plenty of ancient migrations are unrecorded, especially in places distant from civilisations that possessed writing, like the Romans or Greeks.

I maintain my hypothesis that Q is of Hunnic origin because :

1) Q originated very far away from Europe, and only the Huns invaded Europe en masse from that region of central Siberia.

2) there is a lot of diversity in Q subclades in Europe, but absolutely no pattern in their distribution, which suggests that they all came together at the same time. The region with the most diversity of Q is central Siberia.

3) The extent of Q within Europe matches surprisingly well the borders of the Hunnic Empire (+ a northward expansion to Scandinavia), and the hotspots match the regions where the Huns are known to have been retreated after being defeated (Ukraine steppes + Carpathians).

4) Hunnic rulers like Attila are known to have had a great number of concubines (perhaps over 100), which is a good way of spreading Y-DNA haplogroups very fast. If Genghis Khan and his sons can be credited for the large number of men belonging to haplogroup C3 in Central Asia, then the 0.5 to 2% of haplogroup Q dispersed over Central Europe could just as well be the work of prolific Hunnic progenitors - a sort of founder effect, which I believe also happened with R1b in Western Europe, but to a much bigger proportion.
 
Kiev, Ukraine and Russians were many times attacked and invaded by the Tatars from the east. There're many descendants of these Tatars in Europe. Like the Crimean Tatars in Ukraine, Lipka Tatars in Lithuania and Volga Tatars in Russia. Maybe many of these Tatars have been assimilated and are 'East Europeans' now.
 
Goga said:
Kiev, Ukraine and Russians were many times attacked and invaded by the Tatars from the east. There're many descendants of these Tatars in Europe. Like the Crimean Tatars in Ukraine, Lipka Tatars in Lithuania and Volga Tatars in Russia. Maybe many of these Tatars have been assimilated and are 'East Europeans' now.
Click to expand...

Probably, but various groups of Tatars were tested for Y-DNA, and they are a pretty mixed bunch (hg E, G, I, J2, R1a, R1b), predominantly R1a though, with little hg Q - too little to influence the percentages in Eastern Europe, and obviously without any influence on Central Europe or Scandinavia.
 
I just read this article posted by zanipolo , and I think it is very god explanation of Q origins in Scandinavia and Viking colonies , also it explains origins of Scandinavian K and some of R1a that is diferent then one in East Europe . It also could explain Q in Basque ( Esqudi ) - brought by Alans .I think zanipolo allready posted it ,but hier is another one :
http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf
 
this was obviously spread by vikings, as far as ukraine you mention goths (possible) but the hotspot around ukraine looks similar to the borders of kievan-rus and chernyakov culture. even though they were different time periods.
Chernyakhov.jpg
orange is chernyakov, red is wielbark and green is gotaland

I don't think Q comes from huns or mongols, could be another siberian group isolated in scandinavia just like the finns were.
 
Possibly but it was Turkic group from Altai simillar to Huns ( there is not only Q but also Turkic R1a and K) , I dont see reason why that wouldnt be Huns , it was common custom among nomadic tribes from steppes to parts of them go to serve like soldiers in various kingdoms especialy if they were suporting princ that loosed fight for crown . P in Croatia camed from such Avaric princ and his soldiers that escaped Avaric Chaganate and settled on Adriatic see coast during VIII century.
 
Q from Scandinavia could also be conected with C1a mth DNA subclade found in Iceland - since it had time to evolve in to separate subclade it could be long time in Europe . Or it is from some exterminated population during Native American holokaust , brought to Iceland by Vikings
 
Scandinavian Q could could be paleolithic. Dienekes recent admixture analysis yielded plenty of Amerindian heritage in North-Europeans (7-10% in Baltics, Finns, Russians, Scandinavians, Scottish; ancient Ajv52, Ajv70, but not in the La-Brana and Ötzi sample), which does not correlate with Asian admixture. To me it seems to correlate very well to the North-Euro component, thus there really could be present an acient European-American link, which was not necessarily transatlantic but could also be transsiberian. America-Europe Distances in the north are much less on a globe than on a flat map.
 
The Visigoths ruled in Iberia for about 300 years, so there may be a residual Hunnic ancestry here, as well as Phoenician.
 
Maciamo said:
I have created a map displaying the frequency of haplogroup Q in Europe. The data is sparse as Q is most frequent in undersampled countries (Scandinavia and Eastern Europe), so I expect the map to evolve in the future. But it gives a pretty good idea.

There are two kinds of Q in Europe:

1) the Middle-Eastern variant, found mostly in the Levant, Eastern Anatolia and Iran. Note the hotspots in South Sardinia, South Sicily and the Lasithi plateau in Crete, all presumably of Phoenician origin (same for South Portugal and West Andalusia).

2) the Northern and Eastern European variant, which I strongly believe to be of Hunnic origin, since Q isn't found in western Siberia, and its distribution matches almost perfectly the borders of Hunnic Empire. Note that the Goths from Sweden were vassals of the Huns. All the regions associated with the Goths (Sweden, Poland and the north shore of the Black Sea) have a relatively high percentage of Q (let's not forget that the Huns were a ruling minority). Norwegian and Swedish Vikings spread hg Q to Iceland, Britain, and Russia (notably the region north of Moscow, which is also a hotspot for haplogroups I1 and I2b, and an early Varangian settlement in Russia).

One mystery is the presence of Q among the Basques.


Haplogroup-Q.gif
Click to expand...
I can't explain Q in southern Sicily. Who could be responsible for it?
 
albanopolis said:
I can't explain Q in southern Sicily. Who could be responsible for it?
Click to expand...

Huns, possibly. They didn't conquer Italy, but they did invade. Or some of the East Germanic tribes could have had some minority Q.
 
check who were Dulo !

European Huns were not of Asian origin, they were Indo-Europeans. Actually they still "are", because they still are here -

A history of the First Bulgarian Empire
Steven Runciman

... So there they remained, and there their descendants remain, even to this day... --- page 4

... the blood of the Scourge of God flows now in the valleys of the Balkans, diluted by time and the pastoral Slavs. --- page 4-5

You should check who were Dulo and Vokil - trace them back to China (not Mongolia), where they were known as Yuezhi :

source - Wikipedia


Hence they were not Xiongnu, and all this talk about Q haplogroup is bullshit.
 
Dulo said:
European Huns were not of Asian origin, they were Indo-Europeans. Actually they still "are", because they still are here -

A history of the First Bulgarian Empire
Click to expand...
There were Indo-Europeans in Asia too, so the Huns (if they were IE indeed) might have been from Asia.
Welcome to Eupedia Dulo.
 
Huns were a tribal confederacy of many tribes, including (maybe) a turkic elite, but also germanic, alan, and possibly slavic allies.
Mind you, the Hephtalites were also called "Huns", and they refered to themselves as Huns, but were totally an IE people.

Their empire lasted a short time, and didn't extend into Scandinavia. The distribution is very patchy, so my guess is that Q entered Europe from Siberia during the bronze age or earlier.

A bit later, the Avars arrived in a similar fashion, and quickly their language ( or the lingua franca in their empire ) became Slavic,
while their appearance was described as undistinguishable from the Byzantines.
 
In the Heltenbuch we read of the emperor Otnit, certainly meaning Attila, and attributing to him a name almost identical with Odin. Odin or Woden having been worshipped by the Scythian tribes in Asia, and probably being one with the sword-God, of whose type Attila had possessed himself, the name would be naturally bestowed upon Attila by those who acknowledged his divine title. An ancient medallion represents Attila with teraphim or a head upon his breast, and Odin was said to have preserved the head of Mimer cut off which gave oracular responses.
http://www.cristoraul.com/ENGLISH/readinghall/GalleryofHistory/ATTILA/68-69.html

Or Uldin?Odin was in fact a Hunnic ruler - perhaps Uldin (ca. 395 - 410). (?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uldin

http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf

This period in time marked the beginning of a change in the centers of power to Gamla
Uppsala and Southeastern Bornholm. The thesis of the present study is that these
changes were initiated by the arrival of Uldin / Odin and his mixed Ostrogoth / Herul and
Hun / Alanic forces who established new dynasties and brought with them the
unmistakable Y chromosome DNA signatures of Central Asia.


 
Ny forskning nyanserar bilden. Hunnerna lade grunden till det feodala Europa som växte fram efter det västromerska rikets fall. Det menar den australiske historikern Hyun Jin Kim vid Sydneys universitet, i sin bok The Huns, Rome and the birth of Europe (Cambridge university press, 2013).

Hunner tog sig germanska namn, eller germaniserade sina hunniska namn, som ofta hade ett turkiskt ursprung.

http://fof.se/tidning/2013/8/artikel/hunnernas-okanda-kultur
 
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