New R1a map

about Italy,

shouldn't Κalabria have raised R1a

also Greece should have a spot bigger than 20 in central Greece?

Based on what data ? Central Greece has 11% of R1a.
 
Two other possibilities remain which I think are even less likely: that R1b peoples were the first Indo-Europeans, and that neither R1a nor R1b were significant parts of the initial Indo-European admixture.

Why would this be less likely?
 
Why would this be less likely?

I find it unlikely that the first Indo-Europeans were R1b dominant because R1b-L23, which contains almost all of the IE R1b peoples, is relatively young compared to R1a1a, and contains a lot of non-IE peoples in it like the Basques and Assyrians. To me that suggests that some R1b peoples adopted IE languages sometime after L23 came about, rather than a transmission from them back to R1a1a populations.

I find it unlikely that neither R1a nor R1b were part of the first Indo-European population because R1a+R1b correlates so well with the spread of IE. I think others have attempted to correlate PIE with Haplogroup I (pretty much impossible IMHO) and Haplogroup G (possible but less likely IMHO due to European G being so Neolithic and G-dominant populations being so frequently non-IE).
 
Nice map. Good job on it!
I am not sure if this is the right area I should be posting this comment, But I was hoping somebody could help me out. I am trying to figure out the YDNA makeup of the Frankish tribes. I am curious because I believe I have been able to trace my ancestry back to the Cologne merchants that flooded into London following the Norman Invasion. Cologne, falling roughly into what was once Frankish territory, is why I am interested in the YDNA of the Franks. My R1a subtype (according to R1a . org) matches the "Central European" R1a type, while I believe that the "North Western" type is most commonly associated with the Germanic people. So my question is if the Franks carried R1a, and if they did, what modern day R1a type would they most likley be associated with.

And If my ancestor was a "Germanized Slav"as someone has suggested, when would he have entered Germany (what major Slavic Migration reached as far west as Cologne, before the year 1100AD?)

I am probably missing out on some major concepts behind the migrations of R1a in Europe, but that is why I am asking the community for help :)
Thanks for your time reading this!
TCR1AG
 
Does anyone know where in Europe we have R1a1-M17 big Concentrations? also an analogy of M17/other R1a
 
Does anyone know where in Europe we have R1a1-M17 big Concentrations? also an analogy of M17/other R1a

If you search for it in rootsweb, people say it comes from siberia into norway , then to central europe or british isles
 
Nice map. Good job on it!
I am not sure if this is the right area I should be posting this comment, But I was hoping somebody could help me out. I am trying to figure out the YDNA makeup of the Frankish tribes. I am curious because I believe I have been able to trace my ancestry back to the Cologne merchants that flooded into London following the Norman Invasion. Cologne, falling roughly into what was once Frankish territory, is why I am interested in the YDNA of the Franks. My R1a subtype (according to R1a . org) matches the "Central European" R1a type, while I believe that the "North Western" type is most commonly associated with the Germanic people. So my question is if the Franks carried R1a, and if they did, what modern day R1a type would they most likley be associated with.

And If my ancestor was a "Germanized Slav"as someone has suggested, when would he have entered Germany (what major Slavic Migration reached as far west as Cologne, before the year 1100AD?)

I am probably missing out on some major concepts behind the migrations of R1a in Europe, but that is why I am asking the community for help :)
Thanks for your time reading this!
TCR1AG

Slavs have never come as far west as Cologne. The westernmost place Slavs have ever got is about 10 to 11° longitude. But around 1000AD, shortly before the Norman conquest, everything east of that line was "savage frontierland" so to say. Christianization and germanization of Slavs have just got started. It seems a bit unlikely to me -but not impossible- that a guy from today's East Germany, Poland or Czech Republic moved to Cologne as a merchant at that time and then he or his descendands to England.

Generally I'm always very sceptical about deep linage research as far as 1000 years. First of all, until like three hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon if someone took the family name of a family he was employed at, but not related with. And secondly, there have always been naughty women... ;)
 
According to polish historians this was the situation of west Slavs by 800-950AD, and the farthest extend to the west.

http://www.piastowie.kei.pl/piast/mapy/1.htm

West Slavs 800-950.jpg
 
According to polish historians this was the situation of west Slavs by 800-950AD, and the farthest extend to the west.

http://www.piastowie.kei.pl/piast/mapy/1.htm

View attachment 5427

thanks, i was alays looking for this.

proves that the Henry the lion wars in mecklenburg was correct as he germanized back the mecklenberg , pommerain territories as per the time of the barbaric east german migrations of the roman empire.

also note that the venedi, aestii and prussians lands where always noted as non-slavic lands populated by baltic peoples, be them letts, sami, goths or "vandalic" types

sorry for typing and formatting errors as my main hand is in a cast........you need to defend yourself in barbaric australia. thank goodness ( she) i am looked after for other issues. :LOL:
 
Slavs have never come as far west as Cologne. The westernmost place Slavs have ever got is about 10 to 11° longitude. But around 1000AD, shortly before the Norman conquest, everything east of that line was "savage frontierland" so to say. Christianization and germanization of Slavs have just got started. It seems a bit unlikely to me -but not impossible- that a guy from today's East Germany, Poland or Czech Republic moved to Cologne as a merchant at that time and then he or his descendands to England.

Generally I'm always very sceptical about deep linage research as far as 1000 years. First of all, until like three hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon if someone took the family name of a family he was employed at, but not related with. And secondly, there have always been naughty women... ;)

naughty women , but nice

could be frankish or slavic associated with the hansetic league. mecklenburg ( lubeck) was slavic and they traded with "frankish" flanders
 
My opinion is that R1a's subclades are still too poorly resolved to make reliable claims here about which subclades are associated with whom yet.
 
naughty women , but nice

could be frankish or slavic associated with the hansetic league. mecklenburg ( lubeck) was slavic and they traded with "frankish" flanders

The Hanseatic League wasn't established before the 12th century, and even then it grew slowly at first. Moreover 'ThatconfusedR1aguy' stated that his R1a was more of a central European subclade. Individual migrations from Slavic central Europe to the Rhine must have been very rare at that time (Early Middle Ages). That means I don't want to say it's impossible, but very unlikely.
 
The Hanseatic League wasn't established before the 12th century, and even then it grew slowly at first. Moreover 'ThatconfusedR1aguy' stated that his R1a was more of a central European subclade. Individual migrations from Slavic central Europe to the Rhine must have been very rare at that time (Early Middle Ages). That means I don't want to say it's impossible, but very unlikely.

from the R1a.org site he mentions

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...25.30514&spn=28.783711,61.860279&source=embed

there is a small pocket in south west germany


if its really old
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...,5.141773&spn=17.298477,31.15757&source=embed
 
I may have missed it in this thread, but what is the source for the ~5% R1a in Auvergne? I am curious what study or studies came up with that figure, what the sample sizes were, etc.

Thanks!
 
I may have missed it in this thread, but what is the source for the ~5% R1a in Auvergne? I am curious what study or studies came up with that figure, what the sample sizes were, etc.

Thanks!

read from post #4 of this thread, it caould be from the east germanic burgundians
 
R1a might be there since earlier times as the Burgundians never went to Auvergne

it been discussed before, a distance of less than 20K is insignificant in the scheme of immigration
 
it been discussed before, a distance of less than 20K is insignificant in the scheme of immigration

The problem is that R1a is higher in Auvergne than in Rhône-Alpes and Provence, two regions where the Burgundians settled
 
The problem is that R1a is higher in Auvergne than in Rhône-Alpes and Provence, two regions where the Burgundians settled

Depends on what you believe..I believe that R1a was in eastern germans, scandinavian tribes prior to any 'slavic" movements and that these east german migrations "picked up" other haplotype on the migration journey.
If as people think these East german tribes had no R1a and where entirely I , then the haplotypes in italy and southern france would indicate that no germanic people settled there as I is minimal.

East germanic tribes, would be in dominace R1a and I1 , mix in the gothic and vandal types into the migratory mix and what do we have.
 

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