New map of R1b-S28 (U152)

[Ailchu]

i just saw that the distribution of u152 is corresponing a bit to the italian admixture map on this site.
can't post link. but i searched for autosomal distribution maps in europe and got a link to a eupedia site. the map of the italian admixture is probably not very accurate considering the sharp borders around italy but according to this map the peaks in iberia could come from people that lived in or around italy and probably not in north eastern gaul.

 

[MOESAN]

we are just making bets, lacking precise sublineages; very possible that U152 in SW Iberia is the result of diverse waves (Ligurians?, Celts, Latins and ...?) - BTW U152 in Italy seems to me more a Ligurian input than a pure Italic input, without speaking of the Celt input or better said: Ligurians had greater % of U152 than Italics had (it's true during Roma Empire both were smelted more or less) - in Catalunia Ligurians and Latins (Romans) would be the source, but who knows?

 

[Parafarne]

Wow! in big regions of central, eastern, southern France R1b numbers don't add up like big time if one sees maps? If we add 20% U152, 7% L21, 7% DF27, 4% S21, 2% Z2103 & others then 20% of R1b remains unaccounted for, so could it(U152) be under valued by up to 20% in these regions or other subclades are under valued?

 

[Twilight]

Wow! in big regions of central, eastern, southern France R1b numbers don't add up like big time if one sees maps? If we add 20% U152, 7% L21, 7% DF27, 4% S21, 2% Z2103 & others then 20% of R1b remains unaccounted for, so could it(U152) be under valued by up to 20% in these regions or other subclades are under valued?

We'll just have to wait and see, part of the problem is that for most of genetic geneology's history France's legal system hasn't been taking too kindly with Genetics. However as of recent years, Eupedia gets visited by members with the French flag; most of our data pertaining to French Genetic History is obtained via Quebec populations. This URL link below was first created in 2013. http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...crime-punishable-by-heavy-fines-and-jail-time

 

[Parafarne]

Oh I didn't know that! that's very unfortunate.By giving swipe people agree to test so government should not have discouraged it.

 

[alexreg]

@Maciamo Thank you for your excellent work on this map, and many others. I am particularly curious as to your present best theory on the prevalence of U152 in NW Iberia. Similarly, the map "Combined Hallstatt/La Tène Celtic & Italic Y-DNA haplogroups", which includes U152. As far as I can tell, there are three very plausible explanations.

1) Hallstatt expansion of Celts into Iberia, which was perhaps more concentrated in this region. It's widely accepted the Gallaeci were Celtic (with a Lusitanian substratum in at least the southern part?), though I don't know if there's evidence that NW Iberia saw particularly high Hallstatt migration relative to other known Celtic or Celtiberian areas of Iberia.

2) Roman settlement, and hence probably Italic U152, though possibly Celtic U152 from Roman Gauls. I'm not aware of any scholarship suggesting that NW Iberia saw particularly heavy Roman settlement (I always thought it was more the SW, Italica and Baetica), but it's certainly possible.

3) Suebi settlement, and the presumption that the Suebi picked up high levels of U152 via Germanised Celts in southern Germany. From your maps, it's clear that Galicia represents a hotspot of Germanic Y-lineages within Iberia, and this was almost surely due to the Suebi. However, the relative frequency of U152 does not seem in line with that of the Germanic clades, unless somehow the original Suebi had extremely high levels of U152, which appears unlikely.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Robotnick]

For what it's worth, when it comes to Switzerland, this study has the Ticino province as having the highest rate of U152, with just over half the males tested.

 

[hapiness15]

@Maciamo Thank you for your excellent work on this map, and many others. I am particularly curious as to your present best theory on the prevalence of U152 in NW Iberia. Similarly, the map "Combined Hallstatt/La Tène Celtic & Italic Y-DNA haplogroups", which includes U152. As far as I can tell, there are three very plausible explanations.

1) Hallstatt expansion of Celts into Iberia, which was perhaps more concentrated in this region. It's widely accepted the Gallaeci were Celtic (with a Lusitanian substratum in at least the southern part?), though I don't know if there's evidence that NW Iberia saw particularly high Hallstatt migration relative to other known Celtic or Celtiberian areas of Iberia.

2) Roman settlement, and hence probably Italic U152, though possibly Celtic U152 from Roman Gauls. I'm not aware of any scholarship suggesting that NW Iberia saw particularly heavy Roman settlement (I always thought it was more the SW, Italica and Baetica), but it's certainly possible.

3) Suebi settlement, and the presumption that the Suebi picked up high levels of U152 via Germanised Celts in southern Germany. From your maps, it's clear that Galicia represents a hotspot of Germanic Y-lineages within Iberia, and this was almost surely due to the Suebi. However, the relative frequency of U152 does not seem in line with that of the Germanic clades, unless somehow the original Suebi had extremely high levels of U152, which appears unlikely.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Suebians was most probably R-U106, R-U152 in northwest iberia most probably came from a celtic tribe or roman period

 

[alexreg]

Suebians was most probably R-U106, R-U152 in northwest iberia most probably came from a celtic tribe or roman period

Right, that's what I'm suggesting is most likely. It seems the Suebi had R1b-U1006, I1, and other haplogroups in small amounts. Maybe they carried a little U152 they picked up as they expanded south, but not enough to explain the frequency in Galicia, I'd wager.

 

[hapiness15]

Right, that's what I'm suggesting is most likely. It seems the Suebi had R1b-U1006, I1, and other haplogroups in small amounts. Maybe they carried a little U152 they picked up as they expanded south, but not enough to explain the frequency in Galicia, I'd wager.

is too probably celtic and roman , R-U152 is too strong between proto-celts and proto-italic , that has no mystery but forget to try associate a ancient haplogroup from BA to a specific tribe , is too old to associate , but you know that haplo is common to celtic and proto-italic tribes , so if you find a R-U152 in iberia it means that person have ancient proto-celts and proto-italics ancestries