Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38

Thread: Slovenians , west-slavic, south-slavic or celtic

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Slovenians , west-slavic, south-slavic or celtic



    Looking at the history of the slovenian territory, I came across slavic people arguing about what kind of slavs they where , either west or south slavs.

    When looking at the historical area in the bronze-age, it was called Noricum, I noticed it was made up of the Raeti ( G2a ) in the alps to the adriatic sea ( found this out last week), the taurisci which where gallic-celts ( ligurian tribe taurini ) and the carni which where gallic-celts.
    In some books it says the norici tribe was also there and some say they taurisci where also the same people as the Norici.

    If modern Slovenian have
    51% R1a
    23% I2a
    15% I1a
    5% R1b

    Would it be safe to assume that they where made up of mostly west-slavic "polish" branch as the R1a + I1a is present in the modern polish lands..

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-04-10
    Posts
    260
    Points
    6,758
    Level
    24
    Points: 6,758, Level: 24
    Level completed: 42%, Points required for next Level: 292
    Overall activity: 80.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    If modern Slovenian have
    51% R1a
    23% I2a
    15% I1a
    5% R1b

    Would it be safe to assume that they where made up of mostly west-slavic "polish" branch as the R1a + I1a is present in the modern polish lands..
    Your numbers are not quite correct, check this data from Battaglia paper: http://mathildasanthropologyblog.fil...09/02/ydna.png

    The most of R1a could indeed be similar to R1a found among West Slavs. After all it is known that Eastern Alps were settled by Slavs from Northeast.

    I2a (that is probably I2a1b1a) should be of mostly the same origin to I2a found among South Slavs.

    R1b is probably most numerous pre-Slavic haplogroup and I would also relate it it to Celts.

    I1 has frequency of around 10% and good part of it could have been brought by Langobards.

    There are also E-V13 and J2 in smaller frequencies (probably mostly of pre migration period origin).

    So I think it is not wrong if we say Slovenians are all that: West-Slavic, South-Slavic and Celtic, but also there were other people who had chosen today's Slovenia to settle there.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    iapodos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-05-10
    Posts
    149
    Points
    3,857
    Level
    18
    Points: 3,857, Level: 18
    Level completed: 2%, Points required for next Level: 393
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b1 Slavic South

    Ethnic group
    Slavic Serb
    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Shetop View Post

    I2a (that is probably I2a1b1a) should be of mostly the same origin to I2a found among South Slavs.
    Well, what is interesting is that Slovenian I2a2 Dinaric haplotypes belongs to subgroup I2a2 Dinaric North in difference with I2a2 Dinaric South which is typical for Serbs, Croats and Bosnian muslims. Eastern Alps were settled in two waves, first wave came from north and was that of Western Slavs, and second one was from the east from Panonian plain when together with Avars came huge group of Slavs. Slovenians are according to genetics really typical Slavic nation.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered
    Bodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-08-11
    Location
    Praia , Cape Verde
    Posts
    504

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b-Din
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2

    Ethnic group
    Srbin
    Country: Serbia



    I have quite diferent % for Slovenia :
    I1 9,5%
    I2b 2%
    I2a 22%
    R1a 34,5%
    R1b 22,4%
    G2a 2,6%
    J2 3%
    J1 1%
    E1b1b 3%
    Avars setled Slavs in Karanthania ( today Slovenia and Koruska and Gradisce in today Austria) like their borderguards ( limitanei ) betwen 575 and 580 , there was Bavarians and Langobards there .First conflict with Bavarians after that was in 593 when Bavarian duke Tassilo I crossed Brener , and from lower Ens advanced toward upper Drava , he defeated Slavs and took great prey. But in campaing of next year he was ambushed by Avar cavalary and lose 2000 people .603 -611 Avars atack Byzantine Istra( today in Croatia) in aliance with Langobards , Langobards betray them and make peace with empire , but Avars anyway take Istra and kill all soldiers there heavily depopulating it , since 611 they settling Slavs from Karanthania there . 670-680 is coming of second wave of Avars , it is not atested in sources , but I wave sceletons have caucasian sceletons ( probably J2 from KKhorazm ) , but in II wave there is some sceletons that showing mongolic features- newcomers from east . Around 700 they beat Bavarians , and " in they land was only wild animals and no humans" . Border is on river Ens. 791 Charlemagne conquered lands to river Raba , and very son whole of Avaria .
    So I1 and I2b can be from Langobards , Bavarians , Franks , Austrians ( During AustroHungary , there was significant German minority from Germany in Slovenia before II world war, mainly settled by AustroHungary during they rule , but comunist expeled them 1945 )
    I2a there was significant Croatian settlement during Turk invasions on Balkans- Croats retreated infront of Turks , some of it could be I2a1 - from Veneti .
    R1a is from Slavs
    R1b from Celts that lived there Taurisci , Norici ,Carni,... and Romans
    G2a ancient -Neolithic
    E1b1b, J2 and J1 from Roman empire soldiers

  5. #5
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three Friends1 year registeredTagger Second Class10000 Experience PointsOverdrive

    Join Date
    07-11-12
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,948
    Points
    13,455
    Level
    35
    Points: 13,455, Level: 35
    Level completed: 15%, Points required for next Level: 595
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    I would like to point out that Slovenian R1a is probably not exclusively Slavic, even if a sizable fraction of it (if not the majority) of it is. R1a has been in Europe since the Copper Age, and is found outside of the area of Slavic settlements in considerable frequencies (for instance Scandinavia and Greece). Considering the high concentration of I1 in Slovenia, it's certainly likely that some of the Slovenian R1a might also be Germanic or even earlier in origin (consider that R1a might have been in that area since the Bronze Age!).

    With regard for R1b, there is both U152 and U106 in Slovenia - in other words both Celtic/Roman and Germanic R1b.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered
    Bodin's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-08-11
    Location
    Praia , Cape Verde
    Posts
    504

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1b-Din
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2

    Ethnic group
    Srbin
    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    I would like to point out that Slovenian R1a is probably not exclusively Slavic, even if a sizable fraction of it (if not the majority) of it is. R1a has been in Europe since the Copper Age, and is found outside of the area of Slavic settlements in considerable frequencies (for instance Scandinavia and Greece). Considering the high concentration of I1 in Slovenia, it's certainly likely that some of the Slovenian R1a might also be Germanic or even earlier in origin (consider that R1a might have been in that area since the Bronze Age!).

    With regard for R1b, there is both U152 and U106 in Slovenia - in other words both Celtic/Roman and Germanic R1b.
    Good point I forgot to mention that , and also some of Germanic genes were brought by Goths

  7. #7
    Junior Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    15-11-11
    Posts
    5
    Points
    1,995
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,995, Level: 12
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2 - M241
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H35a

    Country: Slovenia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Sloveni (Slovenci)

    In december 2011 in my DNA base situation is like this: From all Slovenia, urban and countryside there is 411 Y-DNA samples. Inclouding also Slovenian minority in Italy (10 samples).

    R1a1 - 37,71%
    I2a2 - 19,46
    R1b - 16,30
    I1 - 10,46
    E - 4,87
    G - 3,89
    J - 3,16
    I2b - 2,19
    T - 1,22
    L - 0,49
    H - 0,24

    It looks like in the west (Goriška) R1a and R1b have near the same % and there is more I1 than slovenian average is. But interesting - Slovenian minority in Italy has more R1a1 (4/10). Maybe they did not mix a lot with Italians, Furlans, Germans in that areas. There is more I2a2 in south east (Spodnje Posavje) and more R1a1 in Gorenjska area, in center and in north east (Pomurje) in north (Koroška) and interesting on the coast (Obalno Kraška). In north east (Podravje) there is also more I2a2. Of course, MORE SAMPLES are needed to prove (or not) this picture. If you want more, search in google: Slovenija v DNK bazenu sveta Manfreda Vrecko and Y-DNA routes of the ancestors of Slovenes Manfreda


    Lp, Marjeta

  8. #8
    Junior Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    15-11-11
    Posts
    5
    Points
    1,995
    Level
    12
    Points: 1,995, Level: 12
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 155
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2 - M241
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H35a

    Country: Slovenia



    Hallo. Can you tell me the link to this information you wrotte: Raeti (G2a)? I am very interesting! Please and thank you, Marjeta

  9. #9
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Marjeta View Post
    In december 2011 in my DNA base situation is like this: From all Slovenia, urban and countryside there is 411 Y-DNA samples. Inclouding also Slovenian minority in Italy (10 samples).

    R1a1 - 37,71%
    I2a2 - 19,46
    R1b - 16,30
    I1 - 10,46
    E - 4,87
    G - 3,89
    J - 3,16
    I2b - 2,19
    T - 1,22
    L - 0,49
    H - 0,24

    It looks like in the west (Goriška) R1a and R1b have near the same % and there is more I1 than slovenian average is. But interesting - Slovenian minority in Italy has more R1a1 (4/10). Maybe they did not mix a lot with Italians, Furlans, Germans in that areas. There is more I2a2 in south east (Spodnje Posavje) and more R1a1 in Gorenjska area, in center and in north east (Pomurje) in north (Koroška) and interesting on the coast (Obalno Kraška). In north east (Podravje) there is also more I2a2. Of course, MORE SAMPLES are needed to prove (or not) this picture. If you want more, search in google: Slovenija v DNK bazenu sveta Manfreda Vrecko and Y-DNA routes of the ancestors of Slovenes Manfreda


    Lp, Marjeta
    You should not assume that all R1a is slavic , it is also Germanic.
    A history of slovenia says
    Main article: History of Styria

    During early Roman times, Styria was inhabited by Celtic tribes. After its conquest by the Romans, the eastern part of what is now Styria was part of Pannonia, while the western one was included in Noricum. During the Barbarian invasions, it was conquered or crossed by the Visigoths, the Huns, the Ostrogoths, the Rugii, the Lombards, the Franks and the Avars. In 595 the latter were defeated by the Slavs, who thenceforth ruled it.

    so, visi and ostro goths have majority R1a , also because they mixed with the germanic bastanae on the black sea. They then would have picked up different haplotypes due to there tendency of recruiting foreign troops.
    The Rugii are originally norwegian and I1
    Lombards are east germans , again , unsure but I1
    Franks, Avars , I am unsure

    The furlans are equally mixed with Veneti, Rhaeti and Gallic-Ligurian/celts. There language to this day is Romansch/gallic

  10. #10
    Passione Mediterranea Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    julia90's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-10
    Posts
    1,076
    Points
    18,190
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,190, Level: 41
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 760
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Ethnic group
    Tuscan
    Country: Italy



    Here's the genetic map, more clear and precise than haplogrous that are useless
    SI=SLOVENIANS

  11. #11
    Passione Mediterranea Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    julia90's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-10
    Posts
    1,076
    Points
    18,190
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,190, Level: 41
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 760
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Ethnic group
    Tuscan
    Country: Italy



    based on my personal morphes of famous football players, from my blogspot http://footballplayersmorphes.blogspot.com/

    Slovenians, morph of 16 famous footballplayers:

  12. #12
    Passione Mediterranea Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    julia90's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-10
    Posts
    1,076
    Points
    18,190
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,190, Level: 41
    Level completed: 16%, Points required for next Level: 760
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Ethnic group
    Tuscan
    Country: Italy



    my opinions on ancient population back ground of slovenians, manly Carni (gaulish tribe) plus Slavs
    with venetic, illyrians and germanic tribes contributions

  13. #13
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered5000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Location
    Eastern Australia
    Posts
    1,977
    Points
    9,037
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,037, Level: 28
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 313
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1 - L446
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H26a1

    Ethnic group
    Venet
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Bodin View Post
    I have quite diferent % for Slovenia :
    I1 9,5%
    I2b 2%
    I2a 22%
    R1a 34,5%
    R1b 22,4%
    G2a 2,6%
    J2 3%
    J1 1%
    E1b1b 3%
    Avars setled Slavs in Karanthania ( today Slovenia and Koruska and Gradisce in today Austria) like their borderguards ( limitanei ) betwen 575 and 580 , there was Bavarians and Langobards there .First conflict with Bavarians after that was in 593 when Bavarian duke Tassilo I crossed Brener , and from lower Ens advanced toward upper Drava , he defeated Slavs and took great prey. But in campaing of next year he was ambushed by Avar cavalary and lose 2000 people .603 -611 Avars atack Byzantine Istra( today in Croatia) in aliance with Langobards , Langobards betray them and make peace with empire , but Avars anyway take Istra and kill all soldiers there heavily depopulating it , since 611 they settling Slavs from Karanthania there . 670-680 is coming of second wave of Avars , it is not atested in sources , but I wave sceletons have caucasian sceletons ( probably J2 from KKhorazm ) , but in II wave there is some sceletons that showing mongolic features- newcomers from east . Around 700 they beat Bavarians , and " in they land was only wild animals and no humans" . Border is on river Ens. 791 Charlemagne conquered lands to river Raba , and very son whole of Avaria .
    So I1 and I2b can be from Langobards , Bavarians , Franks , Austrians ( During AustroHungary , there was significant German minority from Germany in Slovenia before II world war, mainly settled by AustroHungary during they rule , but comunist expeled them 1945 )
    I2a there was significant Croatian settlement during Turk invasions on Balkans- Croats retreated infront of Turks , some of it could be I2a1 - from Veneti .
    R1a is from Slavs
    R1b from Celts that lived there Taurisci , Norici ,Carni,... and Romans
    G2a ancient -Neolithic
    E1b1b, J2 and J1 from Roman empire soldiers
    The haplotype numbers above are also maciano's numbers. Recent accusations by some DNA people have suggested that the R1a numbers are doubles of the same people who used different names. Basically hoping to increase the R1a % of the slovenians more ( common sense people realise Hg do not belong to one race or another ).

    In regards to these original ancient slovene people ( pre-slavic) , I think they are people of Illyric, noric and gaulish extraction who gained some venetic, celtic and later germanic traits pre Roman times. The confusing part is that Livy and others wrote that the Venetic people came from the troad in anatolia, crossed into europe, march along the coast to the danube, sailed inland , then used the sava river into pannonia and noricum. This was circa 1270BC before the trojan wars. These venetic people intermingled with illyrians. The venetic then continued over time into the Venetian area and established a city initially called Trojanus pagus ( padua) . the venetic that stayed in pannonia and noricum where the catari tribe to name one.
    If this is fact , then the slovenes ( unless they are 100% slavic) must have been initally 100% illyrian. the year 1270BC is prior to the bronze age migrations
    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...0pagus&f=false


    http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...0savus&f=false

    The gaulish aspect of slovene are the taurisci and carni people. The taurisci in the northern parts of slovenia and the carni in the western part. Are these gaulish people the first celts who moved there around 500BC or are these germanic celts with the R1b.

    Any links would be helpful

  14. #14
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    "celtic". What does that mean? Irish? lol. A nationalistic occult nonsense.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    Incorrect:
    "If modern Slovenian have
    51% R1a
    23% I2a
    15% I1a
    5% R1b"

    Correct: Y DNA (men)
    N %
    R1a
    177
    38,56
    R1b
    74
    16,12
    I2a1
    82
    17,86
    I2a2
    9
    1,96
    I1
    48
    10,46
    E
    23
    5,01
    G
    20
    4,36
    J
    17
    3,7

    Biggest concentration with Slavic R1a haplogroup is in the North-East of the country (Prekmurje: 62,5%), the lowest on the west on the Italian border with Venezia (Benečija); 37% and in Gorica (Gorizia); 21%.

    mDNA (women)
    N %
    H
    251
    40,16
    U
    102
    16,32
    J
    75
    12
    T
    63
    10,08
    K
    50
    8
    HV + V
    41
    6,56
    W
    18
    2,88
    I
    11
    1,76
    X
    8
    1,28
    N
    3
    0,48
    A
    1
    0,16

  16. #16
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    "Avars setled Slavs in Karanthania ( today Slovenia and Koruska and Gradisce in today Austria)"

    Occult nonsense. There is no proof of any major Slavic migration in 5th-6th century. Because the N (Avar) haplogroup = 0% in Slovenia. Even contrary. Genetic studies confirm the newest Archeological excavations (i have spoken with some archeologist) in Slovenia, that the migrations did not appear in masses at all; the previous tribes for which the archeologists thought to belong to so called "Scythians" (aka "Iranians) and started to migrate into Slovenian lands were in fact the same people that suppose to arrive later, in 6th century AD. (not in masses as I've mentioned before). The migrations of men (!! and not women) happened because of 1. Weddings; Slavic ("scythian") men were seeking brides in Slovenian territories (which was at that time part of the Roman empire), which means they could speak similar languages. There weren't found any evidences of "strugle, war" between these antique tribes, which means these people lived in peace together. Or 2. Because Scythians wanted to secure their borders with the dangerous Christian Roman empire; Christian cult which was spreading into Asia was a serious danger. And Slovene Karantanians learned this lesson in 9th century after acceptance of Frankish help against Avaric (Hebrew & Turkish; N haplogroup) invasions. In exchange for the support in Frankish and Bavarian military against Avars (we called them also "Obri"), Karantanians payed their "tax" in subjugation to the Frankish (Christian) throne. Karantanian citizens did not want to accept any Christian religion, so the bloody civil war continued until the last "pagan" Karantanian prince (Knez) Avrelij (he was probably of the old "Noric" ancestry) Droh or "second"); he kicked out all Christian conquerors, missionaries and rebuilt the old pantheon of god Svetovid (Swiatovit; his name was perverted by Christian parasites into the "Holy Sight" or "Sveti Vid" - the term for the invented "saint"). Gothic Bavarian general Tassilo III attacked Karantanian lands (which were already in several fights with Franks & Bavarians) and conquered the land. So Slovenes have had accept the Frankish and later Bavarian (later "Austrians") leaders. How ever Slovenes continued with election & inaugurations with their dukes. The last instalation of Karantanian (Carynthian; Koroški) dukes happened exactly 500 years ago with Ernest Železni (Ernest, duke of Austria) in traditional Slovene language at the Zollfeld plain (Gosposvetsko polje).


    h ttp://sl. wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Kaernten_herzogeinsetzung .jpg

    This is the inscriptions above the Duke's chair. "Sudonig Uhduk" (Sodnik Hudega; "judge of the criminal" in Slovene today). The letters are quite weird. Especially the letter "N" and "Y" rather reminds me on Venetic leters (Y = G in Venetic) which have died out in 1st c. AD.
    h t tps ://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd. net/hphotos-ak-frc3/395168_254150157987559_1232582204_n. jpg

  17. #17
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    546
    Points
    2,857
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,857, Level: 15
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 193
    Overall activity: 24.0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post

    http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:K...einsetzung.jpg

    This is the inscriptions above the Duke's chair. "Sudonig Uhduk" (Sodnik Hudega; "judge of the criminal" in Slovene today). The letters are quite weird. Especially the letter "N" and "Y" rather reminds me on Venetic leters (Y = G in Venetic) which have died out in 1st c. AD.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...32582204_n.jpg

    Post normal links in future, as corrected above. No need for porn _filtering :)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    I did not write 10 posts yet... until then, "porn filtering" sites ;)

  19. #19
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    3,807
    Points
    23,035
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,035, Level: 46
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 515
    Overall activity: 85.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    "celtic". What does that mean? Irish? lol. A nationalistic occult nonsense.
    If you think "celtic" means only Irish you have tons to learn:

    The earliest archaeological culture that may justifiably be considered Proto-Celtic is the Late Bronze Age Urnfield culture of Central Europe, which flourished from around 1200 BC.[3] Their fully Celtic[3] descendants in central Europe were the people of the Iron Age Hallstatt culture (c. 800–450 BC) named for the rich grave finds in Hallstatt, Austria.[4] By the later La Tène period (c. 450 BC up to the Roman conquest), this Celtic culture had expanded by diffusion or migration to theBritish Isles (Insular Celts), France and The Low Countries (Gauls), Bohemia, Poland and much of Central Europe, the Iberian Peninsula (Celtiberians, Celtici andGallaeci) and northern Italy (Golaseccans and Cisalpine Gauls)[5] and, following the Gallic invasion of the Balkans in 279 BC, as far east as central Anatolia(Galatians).[6]
    The earliest undisputed direct examples of a Celtic language are the Lepontic inscriptions, beginning in the 6th century BC.[7] Continental Celtic languages are attested almost exclusively through inscriptions and place-names. Insular Celtic is attested beginning around the 4th century AD through Ogham inscriptions, although it was clearly being spoken much earlier. Celtic literary tradition begins with Old Irish texts around the 8th century. Coherent texts of Early Irish literature, such as the Táin Bó Cúailnge (The Cattle Raid of Cooley), survive in 12th-century recensions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts

  20. #20
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    3,807
    Points
    23,035
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,035, Level: 46
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 515
    Overall activity: 85.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    [QUOTE=Vedun;432162]"Avars setled Slavs in Karanthania ( today Slovenia and Koruska and Gradisce in today Austria)"

    Occult nonsense. There is no proof of any major Slavic migration in 5th-6th century. Because the N (Avar) haplogroup = 0% in Slovenia. Even contrary. Genetic studies confirm the newest Archeological excavations (i have spoken with some archeologist) in Slovenia, that the migrations did not appear in masses at all;
    Yes they did. They showed up suddenly in written records and we see huge archeological cultural change.



    the previous tribes for which the archeologists thought to belong to so called "Scythians" (aka "Iranians) and started to migrate into Slovenian lands were in fact the same people that suppose to arrive later, in 6th century AD. (not in masses as I've mentioned before). The migrations of men (!! and not women) happened because of
    As you mentioned, if they were Iraniens they were not Slavic. These are two different (way different) languages. Actually Baltic language is closer to Iranian than Slavic.


    1. Weddings; Slavic ("scythian") men were seeking brides in Slovenian territories (which was at that time part of the Roman empire), which means they could speak similar languages.
    Trade and commerce goes on regardless of languages.

    There weren't found any evidences of "strugle, war" between these antique tribes, which means these people lived in peace together.
    At the time of Slavic expansion the middle of Europe was very depopulated. There was nobody strong enough to stop Slavs.


    Or 2. Because Scythians wanted to secure their borders with the dangerous Christian Roman empire;
    Often Scythians worked as auxiliary troops in Roman armies, so I think they had rather good relationship. Besides after 5th century BC Scythians and Sarmatians vanished from history. Some of them were Slavicized.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    Often Scythians worked as auxiliary troops in Roman armies, so I think they had rather good relationship. Besides after 5th century BC Scythians and Sarmatians vanished from history. Some of them were Slavicized.

    they vanished into the thin air...

    "Yes they did. They showed up suddenly in written records and we see huge archeological cultural change."

    Show me your sources and a proof of that (archeological), not written. I could write many things. But these things do not need to be correct.
    Besides why would Iranians "slavicize" when Slavs were still not "cultural"...The Holy Roman Church was needed and the Aryan Germans, Italians and Greeks were sent to them and taught them to write and to live and speak human languages...

  22. #22
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    "Baltic language is closer to Iranic than Slavic". I am glad for that you are great scholar of the Iranian and Baltic (?) languages (you probably meant Estonian and Lithuanian; as "Baltic" right? )

    Yes, and Slovenian is closer grammatically to Rig Vedic Sanskrit.

  23. #23
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    3,807
    Points
    23,035
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,035, Level: 46
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 515
    Overall activity: 85.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Use "Reply With Quote" button.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    they vanished into the thin air...
    I didn't say that, did I? Try to find a written records of their contemporaries about their existence after 5th century. At least they don't exist as a coherent group and culture anymore.

    Show me your sources and a proof of that (archeological), not written. I could write many things. But these things do not need to be correct.
    By 5th century in central Europe:
    - Depopulation of the area, due to hunic invasions and Justinian plague, and colder climate.
    - Change of material culture, simpler houses and ordinary daily items.
    - Written Byzantine and Roman records about slavs moving south.
    - Lack of records about existence/settlements of Slavs in Balkans pre 5th century.
    These are the popular and official facts. If you think otherwise please support your unusual claims. I'm not changing the history, but you are, therefore the proof is on you.

    Besides why would Iranians "slavicize" when Slavs were still not "cultural"...
    What is the culture according to you? They had their language, their fashion, art, tribal rulers/politics, farming tradition, stories, religion, etc. The last time I checked, all of these denote culture. At the end of a day we have 1/4 of Europe speaking Slavic language, and only Ossetians speaking Iranian.

  24. #24
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    3,807
    Points
    23,035
    Level
    46
    Points: 23,035, Level: 46
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 515
    Overall activity: 85.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1b2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    "Baltic language is closer to Iranic than Slavic". I am glad for that you are great scholar of the Iranian and Baltic (?) languages (you probably meant Estonian and Lithuanian; as "Baltic" right?
    You remember the group of Balto-Slavic languages? Latvian and Lithuanian remaining of them. Estonian is finnic I suppose.

    Yes, and Slovenian is closer grammatically to Rig Vedic Sanskrit.
    Closer than what, all of other IE languages?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered

    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    72


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    Closer than what, all of other IE languages?

    One of the closest, Yes. Especially the grammatics and several verbs are the same. Names of animals are almost identical. There are differences in the "herbal" world. Which means that some other group added their names of words of plants and several priests combined this knowledge into the Vedas (Veda in Slovene; "knowledge")... This is how the Sanskrit and Vedas were written. Artificially, from different languages. Veda (knowledge) was written to secure and maintain the ancient knowledge of the Universe, from the human past in simple stories for the people.
    This is also the word from which "Witch" derives from; Vešča ("witch") in my language, V(i)esch; "to be skilled"; also a "moth" (insect, flying around, hearing things...); transmutation went from Veda, Vešča; Vetcha, Witch(er)... Second term was Volhv(also a "mage" and a King in old Slavic; Christian writers, parasites decided to keep the word; hence the "3 Volhvs("holy 3 kings who brought gifts to baby Jesus") come from in later Russian and Ukrainian Bible... Another version of this ancient priest was Vedun or Vedanec (a type of Druid; Truit; 3-Ved (the one who knows the Trinity (not Christian one))..

    Lithuanian is also one of the closest. But not grammatically. (Slovene includes the same Dual conjugations of verbs as old Rig Vedic sanskrit; for women, men and for things), not only in Singular and Plural. For example

    "to be"
    Slovenian:

    Singular:

    sem, si, je - (i am you are, he/she/it is)

    DUAL:

    sva, sta, sta - (we two are, the two of you, the two of them)

    Plural:

    smo, ste, so - (we are, you are, they are)

    and now Sanskrit:

    Singular:
    asmi, asi, asti

    Dual:
    svah, sthah, stah

    Plural:
    smah, stha, santi.

    verb; "to fall" (in singular, dual and plural) Sanskrikt (Singular)
    patami patasi patati
    Dual
    patava patath patatah
    Plural
    patamah patatha patanti

    Slovene
    padam padaš pada

    Dual
    padava padata padata
    Plural
    padamo padate padajo

    Eng I fall you fall he falls (no dual) we fall you fall they fall

    I have only recently discovered huge Vedic background of Slovenian mythology. For example Shiva was god Svetovid.
    If you will understand the Vedic story of Shiva's Mangala (this is "Manu"(Man; "human")-Gala (throat, voice, seaGul; Galus, Galeb, Glagolica; Ghaul, Kelt("Celt")) then you will understand the Slovene "pagan" story of Svetovid and why Slavic Človek or Čelovek (huMAN) derives from "Čelo" (forhead; Shiva's(Svetovid's) forhead) and Vek (=Yuga; vYuga; Vyuka; Vijek... "Era" and "kalpa" (Kaplja "drop", "time"). When I have combined both stories I understood why our ancestors spoke about "Svetovid's dream" (which is Shiva's deep meditation called Samadhi; human as a "mind of Shiva")...Our mythology was perverted and almost destroyed with arrival of Christianity. That's why I do not agree with "official" linguistics and with those who call our original faith "pagan barbaric religion" (which was not)...


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Were the Croatians originally Slavic?
    By zanipolo in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 14-07-14, 23:10
  2. who were Slavic people?
    By how yes no 2 in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: 24-06-14, 23:09
  3. How much Turks and Slavic influence the Greek genetic pool ?
    By Etrusco-romano in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 14-10-12, 08:50
  4. Germanic and Proto-Slavic
    By Taranis in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 29-05-12, 13:42
  5. About Basques and Slavic people
    By kgnju in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-11-10, 12:34

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •