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Thread: Ancient place names in Iberia

  1. #226
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    IMHO I2a2 (old I2b), or at least some of its subclades, matches Beaker Culture a bit better than I2a1a. The STR dating and distribution of I2a1a suggest that it spread earlier and more southwestern than Beaker Culture, especially if we assume that Beaker Culture formed with influence from Corded Ware. The point of contact between Beaker Culture and Corded Ware is very close to the center of diversity of I2a2, and the age of a lot of its subclades, especially its Western ones, are only a bit older than Beaker Culture, suggesting that Beaker Culture helped them spread. However, Beaker Culture appears to extend beyond I2a2's reach, suggesting that the Beaker admixture contained something else, maybe some I2a1a and G2a that got picked up, and others (R1b being a big wildcard). Ancient DNA will hopefully resolve these ambiguities... either way, I don't think that predicting Beaker Culture's Y-DNA will help anybody's argument at the moment.
    You have a point, though I would argue that the match between I2a2 (old I2b) and Beaker-Bell is relatively poor, especially due to the fact that I2a2 is fairly rare in Iberia. Otherwise, I guess you are right, we can continue to speculate as much about Beaker-Bell's Y-DNA but we won't get ahead until we finally get some samples of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by spongetaro View Post
    Here is R1b-M269(xL11), the direct ancestor of R1b L11:
    Interesting map. There are afew issues that surprise me here:

    - First off, they did their homework and finally have some more detailed data on the situation in eastern Europe, and secondly there is this considerable concentration of R1b-M269x in the eastern Balkans.

    - The peak in southern Italy but the complete absence in northern Italy.

    - There is also that peak in the Near East which surprises me quite a bit.
    Last edited by Taranis; 05-10-11 at 13:28.

  2. #227
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    Interesting map of M269*, however although it is true that it's the direct ancestor of L11, there are 3 haplogroups that stand "between" them (L23, L150 and L51) ... The peak in the Carpatho-Danubian area leads me to believe that most of the M269* (in that area) came from an Anatolian migration during the Neolithic (c. 6000 BC, the Dudesti culture and its many successors throughout the neolithic: http://www.eliznik.org.uk/EastEurope...-neolithic.htm) rather than the Eneolithic steppe invasions of Indo-Europeans (although some of it may have come with them too, especially to western and central Europe).
    Quote Originally Posted by Taranis View Post
    Myres et al. mapped L11x (without U152 and L21) here. The problem is, as I mentioned in my earlier post, this predates the discovery of the marker Z196. This means a sizable fraction of this (possibly even the majority of Iberian L11!) is probably Z196.
    Why no M412*!? 'Tmay be the missing link! Is this a conspiracy by Myres et al? (but really, it's a pity they don't show it)
    Last edited by Asturrulumbo; 05-10-11 at 03:13.

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