Autosomal map : European admixture (from Dodecad)

First of all to make something clear. the Caucasians arent further away from Europeans than Mediterrnean People.
Yes, they are. Much further away. Spaniards cluster between French and North-Italians, while Georgians cluster with Iranians and Turks.
 
@Knovas you are still not getting it do you? I am talking about apples you talk about oranges. It is clear that Spaniards and North Italians have more West/East European than Caucasians I did mentioned it but still they are further removed from Russians than Lezgians or Chechens. Why do you think? I will tell you the Mediterranean element makes the difference. The West Asian element on its self is more like a Southern Version of West European. Means Caucasians simply dont need to have high West/East European to get close to North Europeans because the West Asian element on its self is very similar.

It isnt that hard to understand simply compare Armenians and Georgians physically and than genetically and see which element makes the main difference and why Armenians are compared to Georgians swarthier.

And no I never did claim that Mediterranean is not European. There is no way to exclude Mediterranean from Europe. I simply cant stay here and watch how people are playing with the definition of West Asian.
 
Ok Alan, but the phrase Wilhelm quoted you was the same confused me. Now I see what you meant.
 
Yes, they are. Much further away. Spaniards cluster between French and North-Italians, while Georgians cluster with Iranians and Turks.

Just look at Dienekes map and try to understand it. Georgians might have the highest West Asian component but are not that representative for the West Asian element because they have some of the Mediterranean component compared to Lezgians and Chechens, which pushes them further South to Iranians, Turks while Spaniards have 50% West European and still arent closer to North Europeans. It is the Mediterranean factor which makes the difference.
 
Ok Alan, but the phrase Wilhelm quoted you was the same confused me. Now I see what you meant.

Ok I might try to express myself better the next time. Mediterranean is compared to West Asian further West while West Asian is compared to Mediterranean further North.
 
Just look at Dienekes map and try to understand it. Georgians might have the highest West Asian component but are not that representative for the West Asian element because they have some of the Mediterranean component compared to Lezgians and Chechens, which pushes them further South to Iranians, Turks while Spaniards have 50% West European and still arent closer to North Europeans. It is the Mediterranean factor which makes the difference.
I don't know where do you get that but Spaniards are much closer to North-Europeans than any caucasian group.

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Willhelm you simply dont understand or cant bring it in agreement with your ego.

A just better example. We know that Spaniards are up to 40-50% West/East European. Now to get a better compare just Imagine a half Georgian and half Lithuanian Person who would have something like 40% East European + 50% West Asian + 10% Mediterranean and now compare this imaginary person with an average Spaniard, better even with an ethnic Basque. Which Person would look more Northern in your opinion and why? A Georgian/Lithuanian or a Basque Spaniard?

Here a map.

Black where West Asian component peaks
Green where Mediterranean
and Red an area between West and East European (North European)

europe.jpg

West/East European (as expected) most Northern.
Mediterranean more western somewhere on the Mediterranean
West Asian further east from Mediterranean but definitely more Northern somewhere between Mediterranean and North European.
 
The problem Alan is that Caucasians are too Eastern direction, and not much North. Of course there are some of them who have a similar Northern European/Slavic look, but most of them really don't. In my opinion they simply look West Asians/Caucasians, they are easy to distinguish from Northern peoples in average.
 
Willhelm you simply dont understand or cant bring it in agreement with your ego.

A just better example. We know that Spaniards are up to 40-50% West/East European. Now to get a better compare just Imagine a half Georgian and half Lithuanian Person who would have something like 40% East European + 50% West Asian + 10% Mediterranean and now compare this imaginary person with a average Spaniard, better even with an ethnic Basque. Which Person would look more Northern in your opinion and why? A Georgian/Lithuanian or a Basque Spaniard?

Here a map.

Black where West Asian component peaks
Green where Mediterranean
and Red an area between West and East European (North European)

View attachment 5183

West/East European (as expected) most Northern.
Mediterranean more western somewhere on the Mediterranean
West Asian further east from Mediterranean but definitely more Northern somewhere between Mediterranean and North European.
It's not my ego, is what genetic distances tell. See the study of Tian et al. where Spaniards are much closer to Swedes than Adyghe people. Also in genetic plots we are much closer to them than Georgians or other Caucasus are.
 
not much more Eastern than the East European component. It all depends on the definition of Eastern. If the North Caucasus is too Eastern, than All Russians North of the Caspian are this too and by God those look no way less European than Mediterraneans :LOL: However I dont really care if West Asian is considered European I just wanted to make some points clear.
 
It's not my ego, is what genetic distances tell. See the study of Tian et al. where Spaniards are much closer to Swedes than Adyghe people. Also in genetic plots we are much closer to them than Georgians or other Caucasus are.

Now it is official you are simply not able to understand this. I am talking about apples (Russians,Lithuanians) you come with oranges(Swedes).

Not much to add. You can believe what you want.
 
What do you mean by "lookin more european" ? Do you take as a reference nordic people for what european looks like ? Do you have an inferiority complex ? You can see genetic plots or distances. It's clear. Iberians are closer to Scandinavians than any Caucasus are.
 
Now it is official you are simply not able to understand this. I am talking about apples (Russians,Lithuanians) you come with oranges(Swedes).

Not much to add. You can believe what you want.
Oh, please you were talking of northern-europeans. Russians are Eastern-Europeans. well yes Caucasus are more Eastern than us, but not by much, since Georgians/Lezgins show 4% EE and Spaniards 2%.
 
Both Russians and Lithuanians show 30% West European or more. It's good to keep this in mind as I said.
 
What do you mean by "lookin more european" ? Do you take as a reference nordic people for what european looks like ? Do you have an inferiority complex ? You can see genetic plots or distances. It's clear. Iberians are closer to Scandinavians than any Caucasus are.

Not I have a inferior complex you are simply too mentally challenged to understand that a North European Russian is in the average Eye more European looking than anyone from the Mediterranean are you denying this? You are the only person here who tries to prove how even more European they are than Austrians or Germans. I am simply saying What is more European is based on the definition. The average Person would any day consider a Moldavian more European looking than a Spaniard or other Mediterraneans even though Moldavians are more West Asian.
 
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:rolleyes: great Russians and Lithuanians are less North European than Brits and Swedes. Man you have some serious problems. I am out of this discussion.
 
Not I have a inferior complex you are simply too mentally challenged to understand that a North European Russian is in the average Eye more European looking than anyone from the Mediterranean are you denying this? You are the only person here who tries to prove how even more European they are than Austrians or Germans. I am simply saying What is more European is based on the definition. The average Person would any day consider a Moldavian more European looking than a Spaniard or other Mediterraneans even though more West Asian.
Here is the problem. We are talking about genetics, not about looks. You are the one here who has posted hunderds of cherry-picked Chechens to prove something, that has proven to be wrong with genetics. You see, Basques are darker and much less blonder than Finnish people, or Russians, yet are much more Europeans. That is a fact. Second : Now that you talk about looks, anthropology has proven that blondiness and fair eyes are much more common in Iberian than among Caucasus people. That is also a fact.
 
:rolleyes: great Russians and Lithuanians are less North European than Brits and Swedes. Man you have some serious problems. I am out of this discussion.
Of course they are less north-european. See also Eurogenes, the same thing.
 
Lithuanians are the most Northern European (Baltics), and Russians have more or less 80%, so they are near to be (more even than Swedes, yes). Alan is probably right here, although considering the clusters, Russians deviate towards mongoloid populations, while Lithuanians and Swedes don't.

Brits are definitely the less Northern European in the comparisson. All information according to Dodecad, it's possible Eurogenes show some things slightly different.
 
Lithuanians are the most Northern European (Baltics), and Russians have more or less 80%, so they are near to be (more even than Swedes, yes). Alan is probably right here, although considering the clusters, Russians deviate towards mongoloid populations, while Lithuanians and Swedes don't.

Brits are definitely the less Northern European in the comparisson. All information according to Dodecad, it's possible Eurogenes show some things slightly different.
The K=10 "north-european" includes East-European, that's why, while the K=12 they are separate. The West peaks in Norwegians and thr East in Lithuanians. At Eurogenes, the separation is even more clear, Iberians get as much North-European as Estonians, and more than Russians, and it peaks in Swedes.
 

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