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Thread: Dodecad euro7

  1. #1
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Belgium - Brussels

    Post Dodecad euro7



    Dienekes has just released a new European calculator for the Dodecad Project. It doesn't use the same admixtures as the k=12. The new admixtures are :

    - Caucasus : really specific to the Caucasus, especially the North Caucasus. It combines part of k=12's West Asian and Mediterranean admixtures. It's interesting to note that the Argyll Scots have the highest percentage in Europe (9.2%) before the South Italians, then come the Dutch and the Irish just ahead of the Greeks and the Brits. So it looks like there were two migrations from the North Caucasus, one to Greece, and the other to the Netherlands and the British Isles. I noticed before that the Dutch have more haplogroup J2 (6%) than the Belgians or (4%) or the Germans (4.5%). The highest percentage of J2 in the world is to be found among the Chechens (56%) and Ingush (88%) in the North Caucasus. Coincidence ?

    - Southeastern : Comprises mostly the total of the West Asian and Southwest Asian admixtures, but adding some Mediterranean and removing the Caucasus element above.

    - Southwestern : Correspond mostly to the slightly downsized Mediterranean admixture minus the Caucasus. For example, the Irish, who scored 21% Mediterranean now have 7.2% Caucasus and 10.2% Southwestern.

    - Northeastern : a very similar Balto-Slavic admixture to the East European of the k=12, but much more amplified to get rid of as much West European interference as possible.

    - Northwestern : Ditto but with the West European of k=12.

    - African : quite close different from the total of Paleo, Neo, East Africans but without the Northwest African component.

    - Far_Asian : it may look as a combination of Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian, but it's not. The Finns and Turks both score a bit higher on the new Far Asian.


    These new admixtures confirm a few interesting points :

    - The Sardinians have no (North) Caucasian ancestry despite of their elevated percentage of G2a (15%) and J2 (10%). They correspond here to the Southeastern Europe admixture, peaking in Armenia, Anatolia and Greece. The Sardinians are also the only Europeans completely lacking the Northeastern admixture.

    - The Basques also lack the Caucasian admixture, but have a much lower percentage of Southeastern, which is in agreement with the low percentage of G2a, J1 and J2. Only traces of Northeastern admixture (0.4%).

    - Even after purging East Europeans from the West European admixture, the Lezgins , Kumyks and Chuvash still show a considerable level of Northwestern European (13%, 11.5%, 19%) in accordance with their relatively high level of R1b for their region.

  2. #2
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Georgian
    Country: Georgia

    My Euro7 Results (I am ethnic Georgian for at least the last 8 generations on all ancestral lines):

    53.80% Caucasus
    0.01% Northwestern
    3.03% Northeastern
    36.96% Southeastern
    0.00% African
    0.90% Far_Asian
    5.29% Southwestern

  3. #3
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Spain - Catalonia

    This caluculator has an evident problem with the Caucasus component and the Southeastern. Southeastern is mostly European, but includes some other influences, and I think sometimes admixture confuses the data with the West Asian. Quite difficult to determine exactly what they mean, we just can infer it aproximately knowing wich country or person is under the analysis.

    By the way, here are mine:

    59.70% Southwestern
    32.65% Northwestern
    4.91% Southeastern
    2.67% Northeastern
    0.05% Caucasus
    0.01% Far Asian
    0.00% African

    I am mostly Catalan, and it seems is what I inherited in great part. My results are fairly different from the Spanish average, possibly I am the only one in the project getting such reports. The non European, as usual, is very low or plain noise, depending how you interpret the Southeastern, but I was 0% West Asian and Southwest Asian.

    The African has been a bit underestimated in my case, while the Far Asian is noise (more or less the same as Caucasus). Incredibly low and insignificant.

    PD: The results for Sardinians make sense, it was obvoius they must have substantial Southeastern. I expected Basques less Southeastern, more or less like me. Interesting.

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    What level of precision is there in discerning African ancestry? What's past the noise range?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Thanks, this makes more sense than previous calculators. Because according to this new Euro-calculator Sweden and Norways have more Caucasian admixture than Southwestern admixture!

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    Ethnic group
    Tuscan
    Country: Italy

    Really.. the caucasus admixture is higher in north west europe than in south east europe? °__° i'm surprised.
    Why in the previous west asian map it didn't show up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    Really.. the caucasus admixture is higher in north west europe than in south east europe? °__° i'm surprised.
    Why in the previous west asian map it didn't show up?
    No, only in Sweden and Norway. In Holland it is almost equal. There's no data on Denmark btw.

    You can see this here: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F9XoyN2wE-.../admixture.png

    Every map is different, because every time you look from a different perspective. But this new development is very interesting!

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    Ethnic group
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    this demonstrate that caucasian people looks aren't foreign or alien to europe, as we can see at their faces, perfectly european looking

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    Well to some extent. I personally can't tell Armenians from Levantines.

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    Dienekes divided the Mediterranean component in 2 parts this time, in Southwest (Southwest European + North African) and Southeast (Southeast European + Levant).

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    Ethnic group
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    Armenian are heavily caucasians, but they may have also high levantine admixture, you have to look at Adygeians, to see the most caucasian pure look.
    I think armenians pass as european.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by oreo_cookie View Post
    Well to some extent. I personally can't tell Armenians from Levantines.
    Armenians have more Southeastern component (Southeast European + Levant) than Caucasian admixture!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by julia90 View Post
    Armenian are heavily caucasians, but they may have also high levantine admixture, you have to look at Adygeians, to see the most caucasian pure look.
    I think armenians pass as european.
    Exactly! Armenians have more Southeastern admixture (Southeast European + Levant) than Caucasian admixture!

    For about 38% Caucasian and more than 55% Southeastern.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F9XoyN2wE-.../admixture.png

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    The African ancestry in this Calculator only includes Sub-Saharan, or perhaps significant amounts of East African. The Northwest African has been absorved probably by the Southeastern cluster, wich seems to include different influences (European included).

    It's interesting to note that, according to the Fst distances, the Southwestern cluster is the one with less non European affinities. This one is probably a representation of real Paleolithic European if we take the end of the last glacial age as reference. What is very likely to read, is the allele frequencies of the people who remained in Iberia and, in the other side, the peoples who migrated North become Northwestern and Northeastern. The tree is quite ilustrative, it seems clear that Southwestern was originated long before in comparison with the other two.

    There are points to be refined, but I like this Calculator so much. When another K=12 comes with similar clusters, the results will be very useful.

    PD: Southwestern CAN'T include North African because as I said is the most distant cluster from Africa and Asia. It must be Southeastern according to the distances, check Fst: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    The African ancestry in this Calculator only includes Sub-Saharan, or perhaps significant amounts of East African. The Northwest African has been absorved probably by the Southeastern cluster, wich seems to include different influences (European included).

    It's interesting to note that, according to the Fst distances, the Southwestern cluster is the one with less non European affinities. This one is probably a representation of real Paleolithic European if we take the end of the last glacial age as reference. What is very likely to read, is the allele frequencies of the people who remained in Iberia and, in the other side, the peoples who migrated North become Northwestern and Northeastern. The tree is quite ilustrative, it seems clear that Southwestern was originated long before in comparison with the other two.

    There are points to be refined, but I like this Calculator so much. When another K=12 comes with similar clusters, the results will be very useful.

    PD: Southwestern CAN'T include North African because as I said is the most distant cluster from Africa and Asia. It must be Southeastern according to the distances, check Fst: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=1
    I don't think so.

    Northwest African is not the same as Sub-Sahara African. Northwest African is very close to Southwest European.

    I think Dienekes incorporated both admixtures together!

    But you're right, I do also believe that Southwest European component is one of the oldest in Europe!

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    Country: United States

    I bet Northwest African gets grouped in with SW Europe and West and SW Asian go into the SE Europe.

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    I'm right in BOTH things, here you have the proximities with Africa:

    Southeastern 0.163
    Caucasus 0.168
    Nothwestern 0.177
    Northeastern 0.178
    Southwestern 0.178

    Not close, it's the most distant with Northeastern. And the cluster with less Asian affinities, largely.

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    Ethnic group
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    Tuscans, don't have African or East Asian admixture, while many european ethnicites have them

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    Quote Originally Posted by oreo_cookie View Post
    I bet Northwest African gets grouped in with SW Europe and West and SW Asian go into the SE Europe.
    Yes.

    West Mediterranean component = Southwest Europe + Northwest Africa and East Mediterranean = Southeast European + Levant.

    But most West Asian became Caucasian.
    Last edited by Goga; 02-10-11 at 03:04.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    I'm right in BOTH things, here you have the proximities with Africa:

    Southeastern 0.163
    Caucasus 0.168
    Nothwestern 0.177
    Northeastern 0.178
    Southwestern 0.178

    Not close, it's the most distant with Northeastern. And the cluster with less Asian affinities, largely.
    That's affinity with Sub-Saharan African. Not North African.

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    Yes, because is not listed. And North African can't be included in a cluster with such distance from Africa. It must be Southeastern, the one wich is easily adaptable according to the numbers.

    Note that Southwestern is even far in comparison from Southeastern (the same far again as Northeastern) and the Caucasus. If you don't believe in miracles, it's impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    - Caucasus : really specific to the Caucasus, especially the North Caucasus. It combines part of k=12's West Asian and Mediterranean admixtures. It's interesting to note that the Argyll Scots have the highest percentage in Europe (9.2%) before the South Italians, then come the Dutch and the Irish just ahead of the Greeks and the Brits. So it looks like there were two migrations from the North Caucasus, one to Greece, and the other to the Netherlands and the British Isles. I noticed before that the Dutch have more haplogroup J2 (6%) than the Belgians or (4%) or the Germans (4.5%). The highest percentage of J2 in the world is to be found among the Chechens (56%) and Ingush (88%) in the North Caucasus. Coincidence ?
    Well, Spain again shows among the lowest levels of Caucasus/West-Asian, actually second lowest after Lithuanians.

    - Southwestern : Correspond mostly to the slightly downsized Mediterranean admixture minus the Caucasus. For example, the Irish, who scored 21% Mediterranean now have 7.2% Caucasus and 10.2% Southwestern.
    Not really. Southwestern is finally the breakdown of the previous Mediterranean component in it's West side, that is, Iberians-North-Italians-Sardinians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Yes.
    West Mediterranean component = Southwest Europe + Northwest Africa and East Mediterranean = Southeast European + Levant.

    But Northwest Africa has nothing to do with Northwest Europe.
    A shame there are no North-african samples, we could see how many Southwest-Europe they have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    A shame there are no North-african samples, we could see how many Southwest-Europe they have.
    Ethiopians have more Southwest admixture.

    But how is it possible that Ethiopians (as East African folks) have more Southwest than Caucasian admixture?

    I trully believe that Northwest African is incorporated into Southwest! For ME this is evidence!

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    North Africans must have substantial Southwestern from Iberia, but they are not listed. The reason for Ethiopians must come via North Africa.

    To find Southwestern in Africa, is not evidence of Northwest African included. Precisely Ethiopians were nearly 0% Northwest African (well, only 2%, while East Africans 1.5%). I doesn't fit.

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