That map is from a hobbyist at DNA Forums who took whatever proven I2a-Din-S he could find and attempted to fit its distribution to known Slavic migrations (he explicitly called them "Serb" migrations). IIRC, he relies heavily on the young Nordtvedt estimate of its age, and corresponds the origin to an area of peak diversity of I2a-Din-S observed by Verenich. After that, it's just a best-guess fit.
I actually found it to be a quality analysis, on par with Verenich's, although it has a lot of assumptions built into it, and may give an incorrect picture of how precisely we know things about I2a-Din-S at the moment. At least, it shows the coherence of assuming I2a-Din-S to be a relatively young Western (rather than Southern) branch of I2a-Din.
its realistic scenario....
though i still stick to Serians story.....as it fits well with spread of I2a2-Din in both Asia and Europe especially around Danube....
according to "De administrando imperio" Serbs come to Balkan from land Boiki where they have also originally dwellt and where they were called white
http://books.google.nl/books?id=3al...istrando imperio&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q&f=false
hence we can speak of
white Serbs
similarly in ancient Kurdish areas, in Cappadocia ancient authors e.g. Strabo speak of
white Syrians
according to Seneca, Serians live around Danube, in Serica (northwest China), rule over scathered Scythians and rule over Red sea....
red sea is where Sherdana used to clash with ancient Egypt... a lake in Egypt was named after them - Serbonian bog...
I would add here that Kurds (which is for me same tribal name as Serdi and Sherdana) are people with significant I2a2
note that Kurdish tribes bare names such as Sorani and Garmiani... which may indicate the link to other haplogroup I people
Kurds hold position that fits perfectly into story of expansion of sea peoples.... i did explain this in thread about sea people... order of conquest of sea peoples strongly suggest that conquest started from southwest Black sea coasts made cut to Mediteranian went through south of Asia minor where we later find Lukka / Lycians (Lycians same as Boii and Serbs and Dacians? share link to wolf, Kurt = wolf in turkish indicating that possible origin of word in turkish might come from Kurds self-identifying with wolf... Lycians had several times leader with names Sarpedon which may have just meant ruler of Sarpes)..than conquest went south through what is today called Syria to red sea shores... clearly key areas in such conquest must have been Kurdish lands as they are bridge from Black sea to Mediteranean sea..
Strabo states that both tribes of Cappadocia are white Syrians, in fact he explains they are called white as being whiter than other Syrians..from rest of his talk its clear that for him Syrians = Sumerians as he talks about Semiramis, Ninus...
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/16A*.html
question is the relation of Sumerians and white Sumerians..could white Sumerians be later addition to Sumerian stock from some northern populations... could it be related to expansion of sea peoples? or is this about Gutians who ruled over Sumer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutian_period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutian_people
further from Kurds haplogroup I spread in Asia fits perfectly spread of Sarbans tribe in Pakistan and Avganistan...
Serians are also written in history as Seres
Pomponius Mela in Asia puts Seres in between Indians and Scythians...which probably boils down to a line from northwest China via Pakistan/Avganistan to Kurds... he clearly states that, starting from east, Asia (or what was called Asia in his time) is inhabited by Indians, Seres and Scythians..no doubt that Seres cannot be Chinese as they never lived west of Indians...west of Indians are areas of Avganistan, Pakistan, Kurdistan...
http://books.google.nl/books?id=6Ap...ponius mela&pg=PA36#v=onepage&q=seres&f=false
Serica is northwest China but also arc from China to India...northwest China is where silk was produced....this arc was trade route towards south seas....
both northwest China and arc are clearly seen in spread of haplogroup I in Asia.. (see map bellow...map is now somewhat outdated and needs less of hotspot in north iran and more in kurdish areas) big part of arc is made by Sarbans...(spread of Sarbans is depicted with green areas on the map of Avganistan and Pakistan bellow...compare it with the haplogroup I spread on map above it..its perfect match for arc...)
on Ptolemy map, Serica it is north of Tibet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PtomelyAsiaDetail.jpg
in north west China - area north of Tibet, there is a tribe with somewhat european look..they speak mongolian today and are called Sarta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongxiang_people
Sart in mongolian = moon, crescent
Serb coat of arms essentially has 4 "C" signs - crescents
Sarta of northwest China are related to
white Sarts - name for people who origin from ancient arabic? trade people in areas such as Uzbekistan, Kyrgizstan...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sart
in fact Sart settled areas are again places with hotspot of haplogroup I
and there is clear sign of continuity with Serica - silk production from ancient times till today...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margelan
https://sites.google.com/site/thelineagesofasia/
in europe I see people like Scirii/Scirrians and Scordisci/Serdi being genetically part of those Serians
those perhaps celto-germanic or east germanic people eventually merged with R1a Scytho-Sarmatians to give Slavs (Sclaveni) of today....
I2a2-Din-South has came to existence more recently among European branch of Serians.... my guess is Scirri and Scordisci did spread it originally... as Baltiic spread of I2a2-Din-South matches supposed locations of Sciri....
Serbs of today may origin from Scirii or Scordisci who merged with Sarmatians/Scythians to give Slavic people...
russian primary chronicle states that Serbs (and other south Slavs) origin from Danubian Slavs who lived in north Serbia around Danube (Hungary and Bulgaria at the time of writing) and went from there to Lyaks (Lechs or Poles) in times when they were pushed out from Danube basin by spreading Roman empire....this description maps Serbs mention in Russian primary chronicle to the position of Scordisci
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Chronicle
http://www.utoronto.ca/elul/English/218/PVL-selections.pdf
as per your link, the tested northeast Italians are from trento which to this day is 52% german and 48% italian, it only became italian inside the last 100 yeras. Before this it was tyrolese, which was in ancient times Raeti and eugenai. With this knowledge 12a1b1 would have only occurred in trento area during the germanic migration from eastern germany.
2800 years = 700-800 BC which can include the illyrians, raeti, etruscans but not celtic, venetic, norici or ligurians as archeology has them at certain times which do not fit the scenario.
yes, but there were germanic people also entering other areas of italy not just Trento...
what about Boii?
i2a-din has high diversity in Czech republic...
Ser = head in iranic languages, honourable title in germanic languages
Ser Boii = main tribe of Boii
same as there are Scythians and royal Scythians
in that case
from Serboii could have come corruptions like Serdi / Scordisci / Sherdana
and we do know that Scordisci are related or same as Boii...
and that the lake named after Sherdana is called "Serbonian bog"
I don't think that I2a1b is Slavic or Sarmatian.
If it was slavic baltic people should have this haplogroup.
Sarmatians were great warriors but they were'nt so many.For example in hungarian plains they ruled over a Dacian peasantry(Limigantes)
Various Dacian tribes lived in southern Poland,Slovakia and parts of Ukraine.
Aromuns are isolated Balkanic Romance speakers.Their language don't have Slavic borrowings(unlike Romanian).Even now they don't mix with others.But they have 20-40% I2a.
Serians rulled over scattered Scythians....
Scythians and Sarmatians are of same origin - Greek legends relate Sarmatians to origin from group of Scythians that lived with Amazones... in my opinion both Scythians and Sarmatians were dominantly R1a people
Albanians also have I2a1b.And they are too an isolated group.
Albanians in north Albania and on Kosovo and in Macedonia are isolated group they have almost no I2a2-Din...
http://www.bjmg.edu.mk/UploadedImages/pdf/11-18.pdf
Albanians from Albania were ruled by Bulgarians for long time...and area was also heavily settled by Slavic people...in fact lot of toponyms in south Albania are Slavic in origin
Strabo,Cassius Dio and many others says clearly that Getae and Dacians were Thracians not Scythians.
The Romans and especially the Greeks could make the difference between Thracians and Scythians.
There's no -ussa endig opposite to -dava.Cause you have only one place name Sarmizegetusa who could have -ussa ending.Many Dacian towns doesn't have -dava ending.
The dava it's a special type of town because it's a tribal center.
And Scythians don't have something like it.
in south slavic languages
fortress = tvrdjava , tvrdina
hard, strong = tvrd
hence fortress = hard/strong + dava (Dacian) or hard/strong + din (Celtic)
How do you figure? Why can't R1a be the common haplogroup among Balto-Slavs, and I2a1b1a be basically unique to the Slavs?
yes...
Slavs in my opinion only came to existance after merging I2a2-Din with Scythian / Sarmatian / Balto-Slavic R1a
Do we know the subclade or STR diversity of I2a in Aromuns? I know with Greek I2a-Din, it's almost always I2a-Din-N, which I don't discount could have some pre-Slavic connections, as it's the older of the I2a-Din branches (although Slavic incursions into modern Greece did happen, and I consider them a very likely source). But as a whole, even I2a-Din-N is strongly tied to Slavic migrations, as we see with its distribution in places like Belarus and Russia.
Serians ruled over scattered Scythians...
some translations of Seneca state Dacians instead of Scythians...
Of course, more I2a-Din in the Balkans is I2a-Din-S, which probably has too young an expansion on the Balkans (from the north no less) to be connected to much of anything other than the Slavs.
i think its more or less clear that I2a2-din south spread with south Slavs...