Albanians (OFFTOPIC Macedonians)

YOU STILL DO NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION,
YOU SAY THIS,





SO YOU ARE TELLING US NOW THAT ALBANIANS WERE SO STUPID,
THAT HAD A CIVIL WAR NAMED GREEK REVOLT,
THEY ESTABLISH A STATE NAMED HELLAS not GREECE
AND THEY ALL CHANGE THEIR LANGUAGE TO MODERN GREEK. JUST FOR FUN? I wonder
AND NO GREEK EXISTED THERE at 1821?

CORRECT?

I am not going to repeat my post. Were the Great Powers the lord of situation , they did not intend to do an Albanian state.The problem was that they found none Greeks.
 
I am not going to repeat my post. Were the Great Powers the lord of situation , they did not intend to do an Albanian state.The problem was that they found none Greeks.


AHAHAHAHA

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PRIDE?

They fought hunderends thousands Ottomans, Egyptians of Imbrahim, TURK-ALBANIANS, they were slained, massacred, just to make the big powers will, and to change language and ethnicity???????

AHAHAHAHA

you an ALBANIAN just made Albanians and Arbanites look silly :useless:
 
if you want finlay let`s continue with finlay:
https://archive.org/stream/historygreekrev01finlgoog#page/n44/mode/2up
greek government in 1824.
The government which vanquished the faction of
kolokotrones was formed by a coalition of three par-
ties : The albanian shipowners of hydra and spetzas ;
the greek primates of the morea ; and the romeliot
captains of armatoli. The chief authority was con-
ceded to the albanian shipowners ; george konduriottes
of hydra was elected president of greece, and botasses
of spetzas, vice-president. It is necessary to record
the sad truth, that two more ignorant and incapable
persons were never intrusted with the direction of a
nation's affairs. The greeks are the most prejudiced
of all europeans when there is a question of the purity
of the hellenic race, and no people regards education
with more favour; yet with all this nationality and
pedantry they intrusted their public affairs, in a period
of great difficulty, to two men who could not address
them in the greek language, and whose intellectual
deficiencies prevented them from expressing their
thoughts with clearness even in the corrupt tosk
dialect which they habitually used. The descendants
of pericles and demosthenes submitted tamely to
these aliens in civilisation and race, because they were
orthodox and wealthy.

thank you,
you just answer your shelf about your posts



the so-called greek revolution was a civil war betwen albanians. I am not happy to say this but this is the truth. Other, more smart
benefited from this situation. Greece and serbia are an experiment made by the great powers for geopolitical reasons. But if in the case of serbia was the pashiallik of belgrade, in the case of greece, there was neither the state nor the greek nation. This experiment continue still today with fyrom, and maybe are trying to make the same with kosova. But with kosova is difficult because the albanian are an distinct race, not an mix of populations. That`s the story.


i love you man,
i do not even need to search something,
you deny your shelf how many times?
 
AHAHAHAHA

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PRIDE?

They fought hunderends thousands Ottomans, Egyptians of Imbrahim, they were slained, massacred to make the big powers will, and to change language and ethnicity???????

AHAHAHAHA

Who create Filiki Eteria, can you tell me?
 
you an ALBANIAN just made Albanians and Arbanites look silly
useless.gif
 
[FONT=&quot]"Lie - Foreign powers supported Greece because they loved Greeks.
Truth - They stepped into the war after they took the guarantee that independent Greek state will serve to their interests. Thats why Greece made a profit out of the sharing and agreements made after Balkan wars between 1910-1922. Even Thessaloniki which was %40 Jewish, %25 Turkish and only %20 was Greek was given to Greece." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Famous Greek Lies, To Vima)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

"Lie - Greek nation won its independence after an uprising against Ottoman empire.
Truth - The uprising was instantly suppressed. In 1827, France, England and Russia stepped into the war because they thought an independent Greek state will serve to their interests." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](Famous Greek Lies, To Vima)[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]
 
"Lie - Foreign powers supported Greece because they loved Greeks.
Truth - They stepped into the war after they took the guarantee that independent Greek state will serve to their interests. Thats why Greece made a profit out of the sharing and agreements made after Balkan wars between 1910-1922. Even Thessaloniki which was %40 Jewish, %25 Turkish and only %20 was Greek was given to Greece."
(Famous Greek Lies, To Vima)

"Lie - Greek nation won its independence after an uprising against Ottoman empire.
Truth - The uprising was instantly suppressed. In 1827, France, England and Russia stepped into the war because they thought an independent Greek state will serve to their interests."
(Famous Greek Lies, To Vima)



and only %20 was Greek
This 20% are you sure are Greek? That`s the question. We can call conventionally this people greeks, chinese, what you want but they are not greeks.
 
…Philhellehism was a sort of social disease, caused by hallucinations and the by the illusion of finding in the present mongrel inhabitants of Morea and Attica the descendants of the ancient Hellenes. Subsequent contact of Greece with Europe has already considerably modified these ideas, as the modern Greek begins to pass for what he is: a semi-barbarian, a not yet cultivated citizen, and already a spoilt savage……Our classical recollections will have been proved a fallacy…only because they inhiabit a soil where the Parthenon was built. (Baron Augustus Jochmus, The Syrian War and the Decline of the Ottoman Empire)

Until 1821, Greeks knew that there had once been a Christian empire with its capital at Constantinople, but they did not think of it as a Greek empire, and they certainly didn’t call it the Byzantine Empire. (Katerina Zacharia, Hellenisms)

It is certainly unlikely that before the infiltration of European Philhellenism the inhabitants of Kastri knew (or cared much, for that matter) that they were indeed the inhabitants of Delphi. (Stathis Gourgouris, Dream Nation)

It is significant that many of the nineteenth-century alterations to the Acropolis were carried out at the instigation of Germans, whose contribution to the modern Greeks’ sense of their classical heritage was crucial………….. an attempt was made to Hellenize the Greek collective consciousness, and through katharevousa, to “purify” the modern Greek language. (Katerina Zacharia, Hellenisms)

University of Athens - This, was the first institution of higher learning in the independent kingdom of the Hellenes, was founded by King Otto on the German model. (John Koliopoulos, Greece – The Modern Sequel)

The new sate did not attach itself to the immediate past, as it had been preserved in the popular memory, but rather adapted itself to the convenient image of the ancient Greek past already created in the West. Otto’s father, King Ludwig I of Bavaria, was obsessed with ancient Greece and brought up his children with the aspiration that one day one of them would reign over this glorious land. (Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe, Texts and Commentaries)

In 1834 it was decided to create Athens the capital of the independent Kingdom of Greece. A German architect, Schaubert, was employed to plan the wide streets, the squares, the boulevards: and so Athens, which in 1834 was a village of five thousand inhabitants, has become in 1936 a city of over four hundred and fifty thousand people. (H. V. Morton, In the steps of St. Paul)

Ancient Sparta has entirely perished….New Sparta is a creation of King Otho, who has formed the useless project of resuscitating all the great names of Greece. It is a governmental and commercial town, composed entirely of shops, barracks, and public offices. (Edmond About, Greece and the Greeks of the Present Day)

Make sens or not?

[FONT=&quot]New York Times - June 2009 Nikos Dimou “.....We
used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans,
but then
Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us,‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants
of Plato and
Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has
such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never
recover".

[/FONT]
 
What are the conditions that a group of people to create a nation?
 
It`s an simple question, can you answer, pls?
Thank you.





It seems that you are unable to give a single answer to all this day. In the presence of company it is not how one sees himself or herself it is how others see them that counts.

[FONT=&quot]"When a Greek's identity is in question, they can never accept the facts as they are. The Greeks lack the capacity to comprehend reality. Every Greek has an exaggerated opinion about Greeks." (Lord Byron)[/FONT]
An phillhelenes.
 
Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

"..John of Amida also known as John of Ephesus records that in 581

"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and
devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and
made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in
it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their
own. ... And even to this day [584 AD], they still encamp and dwell
there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety
and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn..."

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that
in the year 587—8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were
usually allied)

"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were
scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of
the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the
Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the
country... "

[Cyril Mango, BYZANTIUM: THE EMPIRE OF NEW ROME]

But the revival was only for a time, and, in spite of Greek struggles, at the end of the tenth century Sclavonians formed almost the entire population of Macedonia, Epirus, continental Greece and the Peloponnese…….It was during these centuries, that what remained, if indeed anything remained, of even degenerate Hellenic blood absorbed or was absorbed into that of the Slav……Indeed, the Albanians appear to have done for Greece in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries something like that which that Sclavonians had done in the sixth and seventh….They number about 200,000 souls; and within a greater part of the districts occupied by Albanians at the present day the Greeks have been as completely expelled as the Celtic race in England by the Saxon. Unlike the Greek, for him the bonds of nationality are stronger than those of religion…..to assert that a Greek Christian is a Hellene is as reasonable as to call all Roman Catholics Italians; and to claim a Slav or Albanian as a Hellene because he speaks Greek, is much the same as calling an educated Russian French, or an Irishman English, because they prefer French or English to their own less developed languages. (A Monthly Review – Greece, Spoilt Child of Europe)

Generally speaking most of Greek modern DNA have its roots in Neolithic first farmers who lived in what we call Greece and Balkans overall. There is some addition of Indo European genetic ancestry, which made first Greek culture at about 1,000 BC. There is also Slavic genetic component, mostly in Northern Greece. We know this thanks to recent genetic testing and analyses of DNA in context of populations and nations. Greek autosomal and Y DNA is firmly placed between Turkey/Anatolia and Bulgaria, Macedonia and Albania. We know that closest genetic cousins of Greeks are people from Western Turkey, Macedonia (FYROM), Albania and South Italy.

Moreover your supposition that Greeks were replaced by Albanians and Slavs is totally wrong. Although they were conquered many times, they've retained strong cultural identity, they still speak Greek, belong to Orthodox Church, and have local genetic continuity. If they were replaced by Slavs their genes would point to strong relationship with Belarus and Ukraine, and not to South Italy or Albania. Some historians might lie or skew facts with their agenda but genes don't lie.
Unlike in most of Greece, Slavic influence was strongest in Northern Macedonia, that's why they speak Slavic and culturally identify themselves as Slavs. However when we compare FYROM autosomal DNA to the whole region, they plot and belong exactly in the region. From this we can assume that the number of Slavs who conquered the region was much smaller than number of natives. We can say that although linguistically Northern Macedonia changed a lot, but there is overwhelming genetic continuity with ancient Macedonians or Greeks, if you will. Their diet is close to Greeks, and similar music, ethnic cloths and many customs.
If anything, we can see strong and undeniable ancient Greek continuity in language, music, food, ethnic cloths, and a genetic one.

Having said that, it would be not right to claim that they are exactly same as ancient Greeks. The religion is definitely different, they don't have slavery now, dress mostly modern, would have difficulty understanding ancient Greek spoken language, there is obvious "foreign" genetic component of recent migrations and modern emigration, and their standard of living is way up compared with ancient times, even in midst of current recession.
 
Generally speaking most of Greek modern DNA have its roots in Neolithic first farmers who lived in what we call Greece and Balkans overall. There is some addition of Indo European genetic ancestry, which made first Greek culture at about 1,000 BC. There is also Slavic genetic component, mostly in Northern Greece. We know this thanks to recent genetic testing and analyses of DNA in context of populations and nations. Greek autosomal and Y DNA is firmly placed between Turkey/Anatolia and Bulgaria, Macedonia and Albania. We know that closest genetic cousins of Greeks are people from Western Turkey, Macedonia (FYROM), Albania and South Italy.

Moreover your supposition that Greeks were replaced by Albanians and Slavs is totally wrong. Although they were conquered many times, they've retained strong cultural identity, they still speak Greek, belong to Orthodox Church, and have local genetic continuity. If they were replaced by Slavs their genes would point to strong relationship with Belarus and Ukraine, and not to South Italy or Albania. Some historians might lie or skew facts with their agenda but genes don't lie.
Unlike in most of Greece, Slavic influence was strongest in Northern Macedonia, that's why they speak Slavic and culturally identify themselves as Slavs. However when we compare FYROM autosomal DNA to the whole region, they plot and belong exactly in the region. From this we can assume that the number of Slavs who conquered the region was much smaller than number of natives. We can say that although linguistically Northern Macedonia changed a lot, but there is overwhelming genetic continuity with ancient Macedonians or Greeks, if you will. Their diet is close to Greeks, and similar music, ethnic cloths and many customs.
If anything, we can see strong and undeniable ancient Greek continuity in language, music, food, ethnic cloths, and a genetic one.

Having said that, it would be not right to claim that they are exactly same as ancient Greeks. The religion is definitely different, they don't have slavery now, dress mostly modern, would have difficulty understanding ancient Greek spoken language, there is obvious "foreign" genetic component of recent migrations and modern emigration, and their standard of living is way up compared with ancient times, even in midst of current recession.

Are you sure about all of this?First of all Greeks are people of diaspora like jews.Today prime minister is originary from Egypt. But i want to make you an question, do you know that during 1920-30, arrived in Greece people (1.500.000) asiatic people during the exchange of population with Turkey? Just you declare that you are orthodox and you are an Greek. Something like a social club not an nation.So i invite you to make again those analysis.
 
Do you have listen, example Karamanlidhes. Just christian turks. This is the criteria to be greek.
 
Can we call the modern Greek descendants of ancient Greek?

Are you sure about all of this?First of all Greeks are people of diaspora like jews.Today prime minister is originary from Egypt. But i want to make you an question, do you know that during 1920-30, arrived in Greece people (1.500.000) asiatic people during the exchange of population with Turkey? Just you declare that you are orthodox and you are an Greek. Something like a social club not an nation.So i invite you to make again those analysis.
They were the descendants of Greeks who originated in Greece, therefore Genetically and culturally Greeks. Good you mentioned Jews, because Ashkenazi Jews genetically are most similar to other East Mediterranean people and not to Northern Europeans, although they've spent a long time living up North. Ashkenazi don't have more than 5% of North European genes on average. Diaspora stick together and doesn't mix with locals.
 
They were the descendants of Greeks who originated in Greece, therefore Genetically and culturally Greeks. Good you mentioned Jews, because Ashkenazi Jews genetically are most similar to other East Mediterranean people and not to Northern Europeans, although they've spent a long time living up North. Ashkenazi don't have more than 5% of North European genes on average. Diaspora stick together and doesn't mix with locals.

You say:
Some historians might lie or skew facts with their agenda but genes don't lie.
Are you speaking about this historians:
"..John of Amida also known as John of Ephesus records that in 581

"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and
devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and
made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in
it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their
own. ... And even to this day [584 AD], they still encamp and dwell
there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety
and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn..."

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that
in the year 587—8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were
usually allied)

"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were
scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of
the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the
Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the
country... "

[Cyril Mango, BYZANTIUM: THE EMPIRE OF NEW ROME]

I don`t belive that these historians are part of modern nationalist agendas.
But i agree with you that are different scholars that are part of nationalist agenda, and here i include also genetic theories.

In theAlbanian, Greek and international academic circles, has debates related to the ancient Greeks Epirus Illyrians etc. My opinion is that this debate will continue maybe for more time, I think that the loss of the Library of Alexandria, was a greate loss for humanity, second i think are political reasons , it`s my opinion.

There is no known debate in academic circles between Albanians and Serbs. Only some pseudoscientists, politicians and Serbian blogger try to make a discussion.
They start saying, Albanians are coming from the Caucasian Albania. Later began discussing about the toponims.This are serbian toponims for this reason this land is a serbian land. Near my city is a region named Mallakastra, there are different vilages in that region , Hekal, Varribob,etc. There is a village named Belishova , a slav toponim. And what? The Epirus is albanian , greek or serbian?
Later they changed strategy, aleluja they find Eldorado, they say according to the last genetic analysis the serbian are the descendets of illirian. Same with the croatian , FYROM is another story , they think that are descendants of Alexander the Greate.What? But they are slavs. There is a process in history named ASSIMILATION.
For the first time in history we hear that the invader is identified with the conquered.
There are 350.000.000 EU or more spent by goverments of FYROM to convince us that they are descendants of Veliki Aleksandrovic son of Filipovski. This is madnes.
I am here to speak about history, and we can not turn history into a branch of genetics, if the genetics explains everything let tell to the people to study the theory of the population bottleneck , about Mitochondrial Eve and Adam , we are all from Africa let speak about baboon, chimpazes. All clear.No, this is not history.
For your curiosity in FYROM are 300.000 albanian christian orthodox, I am not speaking about musslim albanians.
I personally prefere to read ancient and medieval sources. They are not contaminated by nationalism. Of course i read even modern author.

Medieval authors tell us that:
"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……”


"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there.”

Two different sources. I'm inclined to believe them. The medieval authors and other serious sources tell us that Albanians departed from Epirus and occupied large territories of Greece, on the continent and in the islands. And after http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Achelous_(1359) for 600 years they were the dominant population of Greece.
Are we supposed to take into account the fact?
How many albanians were in greek territory in 1821? There are different datas, starting from 15% to 50% of entire of poulations in greek territory. I suggest to use logic. In this part of the world named Balcan society was and still continueto be built on clan basis. The most important person is the head of the clan.
With all my posts i gave you the possibility to understand that the liberation of Greece was made by albanians. 90% of greek heros are albanian , large part of them did not speak Greek, including the first President and vice-president of Greece.
All the president of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Hellenic_Republic were Albanian origin, and stated that they were proud of their origin.
So population of Greece in 1821 was a mixture of, albanians, vlachs, slavs, turkish, gipsy and romei christian population, who can you call if you want Greek.
In 1923 it was the exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey.
Now the Asia Minore is the most bigest intersection in human history, center of two of the greatest empires. How can you tell me that those people are genetically pure? How can we call europian not greek : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamanlides and other populations of Asia Minore just because are orthodox?
Ancient authors have said:
“Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina....”


I told you greeks like jews and Armenian are people of diaspora, Prime minister of Greece is originary from Egypt:
http://www.balkaninside.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Antonis-Samaras-on-SYRIZA.jpg
If i would not knew i will think that this person is Prime minister of Egypt.
I live you to make the conclusion and I hope that you will make some references.
 
@lebrok

leave him,

the man is θερμοκεφαλος,
I will answer him when i can sit for few hours,
 
@lebrok

leave him,

the man is θερμοκεφαλος,
I will answer him when i can sit for few hours,

No, please let him...
this man is Greek, actually that is the point of all these!

-I have to sleep it is late for me, but when i wake up next morning "king Bardyll" will become Βάρδαλος and Σαλός and Βασιλεύς , all together> Σαλαβάρδαλος ( -the looney king Bardyll or the thessalian Bardyll ? -What is your preference?)

-καληνύχτα, φίλε/vela Bardyll and sweet dreams to all of us!
 
No, please let him...
this man is Greek, actually that is the point of all these!

-I have to sleep it is late for me, but when i wake up next morning "king Bardyll" will become Βάρδαλος and Σαλός and Βασιλεύς , all together> Σαλαβάρδαλος ( -the looney king Bardyll or the thessalian Bardyll ? -What is your preference?)

-καληνύχτα, φίλε/vela Bardyll and sweet dreams to all of us!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4A8U0I7W_Y
 
You say:
Some historians might lie or skew facts with their agenda but genes don't lie.
Are you speaking about this historians:
"..John of Amida also known as John of Ephesus records that in 581

"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and
devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and
made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in
it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their
own. ... And even to this day [584 AD], they still encamp and dwell
there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety
and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn..."

Another source, the so-called Chronicle of Monembasia, states that
in the year 587—8 the Turkic Avars (with whom the Slavs were
usually allied)

"…..captured all of Thessaly and all of Greece, Old Epirus, Attica
and Euboea. Indeed, they attacked the Peloponnese and took it by war;
and after expelling and destroying the native Hellenic peoples, they
dwelt there. Those who were able to escape their murderous hands were
scattered here and there. Thus, the citizens of Patras moved to the
district of Reggio in Calabria, the Argives to the island called Orobe,
the Corinthians to the island of Aegina.... Only the eastern part of
the Peloponnese, from Corinth to Cape Maleas, was untouched by the
Slavonians because of the rough and inaccessible nature of the
country... "

[Cyril Mango, BYZANTIUM: THE EMPIRE OF NEW ROME]

I don`t belive that these historians are part of modern nationalist agendas.
But i agree with you that are different scholars that are part of nationalist agenda, and here i include also genetic theories.
I believe these are their genuine observations, though very general and lacking details. From these few verses we have no idea how many Slavs and Avars came to Greece, how many Greeks died, was it only an invasion army or they came with families to settle? What baffles me is that from these general and sparse quotes you concluded that Greeks were totally replaced by Slavs, Avars and Albanians, and that ancient Greeks are gone forever. It is not true. From genetic studies we gather that modern Greeks are vastly descendents of ancient populations of East Mediterranean, the neolithic farmers. In future we will get more genetic resolution of ancient Greeks and we should be in position to say if population of a single city like Athens have genetic continuity with ancient Athenians.

In theAlbanian, Greek and international academic circles, has debates related to the ancient Greeks Epirus Illyrians etc. My opinion is that this debate will continue maybe for more time, I think that the loss of the Library of Alexandria, was a greate loss for humanity,
Indeed it was.

There is no known debate in academic circles between Albanians and Serbs. Only some pseudoscientists, politicians and Serbian blogger try to make a discussion.
They start saying, Albanians are coming from the Caucasian Albania. Later began discussing about the toponims.This are serbian toponims for this reason this land is a serbian land. Near my city is a region named Mallakastra, there are different vilages in that region , Hekal, Varribob,etc. There is a village named Belishova , a slav toponim. And what? The Epirus is albanian , greek or serbian?
I say lets keep the present borders intact. There is always possibility for referendum in the future in case of disagreement. The situation you described we can extrapolate for the whole Europe. Every piece of land belonged in past to someone else. Let's leave it the way it is, or we could start another war.

Later they changed strategy, aleluja they find Eldorado, they say according to the last genetic analysis the serbian are the descendets of illirian. Same with the croatian
, It is true on some level. As I said before there is a genetic continuity of recent populations with ancient people of the region. If Illirians lived in area of Serbia, when Slavs came they mixed havily with locals, to the degree that Serbs are geneticaly closer to Albanians and Greeks than to Poles or Russians, the Northern Slavs. Having said that I'm not familiar with genetic analyses of ancient Illyrian individual, if actually one could be identified as one.


FYROM is another story , they think that are descendants of Alexander the Greate.What? But they are slavs. There is a process in history named ASSIMILATION.
For the first time in history we hear that the invader is identified with the conquered.
The are only culturally slavs, and mostly from the language side. The rest of culture like food, music, costumes are continuation of ancient Macedonian culture, and similar to Greek Macedonians. Also genetically they are mostly descendents of Macedonians and only in minority from Slavs.

I think, you need to let these facts sink in. The most of population of Balkans are genetic continuation of ancient neolithic farmers, with only some elements of Indo European invaders, or later Slavs. Genetic base is very old local, meaning that all the invaders who came had little genetic impact on the region. They came in smaller groups, they conquered and later they mixed completely with locals. Population of Balkans were not replaced neither by Helens, or Slavs, or Turks. Instead one can see great cultural changes every thousand of years, but population stays the same in general. Greek Macedonians and Slavic Macedonians are genetically identical, almost. They both are descendants of Ancient Macedonians, they both have Slavic genetic influence. The only difference is that Greek Macedonians managed to keep their Greek language and Slavic Macedonians switched to Slavic.



I personally prefere to read ancient and medieval sources. They are not contaminated by nationalism. Of course i read even modern author.
The only problem I noticed is that you draw broad conclusions with very scant information.

Medieval authors tell us that:
"…an accursed people, called Slavonians, overran the whole of
Greece……”
Overrun doesn't mean replaced, does it? They were few of them, they didn't killed most of Greeks and they mixed with locals or left. Please, don't confuse conquer with population replacement anymore.
 

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